Worse with "Hook 5 Paid"?

[OysterMug]

23 hours ago, Titanoboa Serpentes said:

Hi OysterMug, thanks for the room upload.

 

I took a quick look at your level definition file. The original H4 one and the H5 that you converted. Here are some findings/ suggestions: The RGB values have to be three integer values each, e.g. 127,123,255. I don't know what the last value of the color value is (maybe Alpha), but the first three values have to be converted by multiplying with 255.

You have 29 spotlights in your _level_definition.txt file and a sunlight. That means at lest 30 shadow targets. They also miss certain parameters like enable = true/false, intensity = x, diffuse_only = true/false, source_radius = x, source_curve = x, cast_shadow = true, shadow_bias = x, clamp_range = 0.000000.

I have the same flickering with your _level_definition.txt (H5)  like in the video you uploaded earlier. In my opinion, there are far too many lights in that level definition and the textures have wrong spec maps. The blue channel is used for glow in H5 and the green channel is used for specularity. The red channel of the spec map is used for metallicity, so for example, the kitchen counters have a metallic finish to them. I don't know about the way hook4 uses those channels in the spec map, but if you want to convert a room from Hook4 to Hook5 you also have to redo the spec maps and normal maps.

Several spotlights seemed to have been duplicated by the conversion and the rotation values have been changed or mixed up.

The _pass files for the textures don't use the correct object name. Hook5 doesn't use BumpedCloth, but CustomStatic, and you have to have normal maps for each texture.

 

Thx for the reply.

 

My "H4 to H5 LevDef Converter" doesn't attempt to convert "pass" files or bumpmap textures. And it DEFINITELY does not convert H4m objects to H5m. All that would be WAYYY too much work (often for for minimal gain.) It's purpose is mostly just to make old H4 rooms usable again.

 

I don't think the decimal (non-integer) color values have any effect on output, but I'll look into it. My program does not add or remove any light sources. It simply converts what's already there in the H4 LevDef. This requires changing light rotation (and sometimes even position) since it is different in H4 than H5 (typically the X value must be turned -90', but sometimes -270. Room Center may be off as well.) If the output has 30 shadow targets, it's only b/c the original does. H5 should be able to handle anything H4 could handle.

 

If you can repair the result by editing ONLY the LevDef, that would be great, but don't bother with more than that. Attempting to change the color of images or tweak "pass" files is too much for any program (unless the exact same changes can be applied to every pass file.)

 

Thx.

 

PS: If you'd like to help Beta Test my app, let me know.

Edited March 3, 2022 by OysterMug

[Titanoboa Serpentes]

@OysterMug Hi, I have made a new _level_definition.txt file with the one you gave me, but I edited it extensively. The four spot lamps used per light source, e.g. the one of the table lamps, were reduced to one. I think the original creator tried to emulate the way a real light bulb works. As you said, the x value had to be corrected to -90 degrees with all spotlights which were supposed to face in the direction of the floor.

One important thing is the shadow bias value that you somehow have to use to get rid of shadow striping/banding. But there is no correct value that you can simply put in to have nice shadows. You have to tweak them manually for each light.

 

I've created the level definition file with the original room that you gave me. It works as long as no normal maps are used. I simply implemented a default normal map to see if that would change the look of the scene, but unfortunately, it exposed some incorrect UV maps that had to be fixed in Blender. I will upload the fixed room in a few days. I only mention that because I thought that you could just use a default normal map and spec map to make a default pass file for every texture. But it is better to leave the textures as they are. I think you wouldn't need the _s.png and _pass.txt files at all for the room to function properly.

 

In my opinion, the performance of H5 can be worse than that of H4 depending on how many features you use. A room that has HD spec maps with AO channel, HD normal maps with included displacement, mirrors, water shaders, sunlight hairworks hair with antialiasing or physx hair can have quite a performance impact let alone adding a few H5 objects.

 

Some previews of the room with my _level_definition.txt

 

_level_definition.txt

 

Just for comparison, here are some screenshots of the corrected room:

 

 

 

I would like to test your app, but I don't have any rooms with H4 at the moment, but let me know if you want any help with a Hook4 room.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Titanoboa Serpentes

[OysterMug]

2 hours ago, Titanoboa Serpentes said:

@OysterMug Hi, I have made a new _level_definition.txt file with the one you gave me, but I edited it extensively.

 

The revised LevDef looks great, and you should post it, but such detailed work can't be done according to a "formula" that can be done using a program.

 

If the exact same changes can be applied to other rooms, then those changes could (maybe) be added to my software, but doing things like deleting & moving light sources that you adjust based on appearance is something that just can't be done with a simple program.

 

As I note in the docs for my software, it basically provides you with a jumping-off point, and that after conversion, you may still want/need to tweak the results by hand for best appearances. While this can already be done by hand, having an app take care of the basics can save you 90% of the work.

Edited March 7, 2022 by OysterMug

[Titanoboa Serpentes]

@OysterMug I'm glad that you like my level def, thanks very much!  While I was making the level def I had the same thought about your converter of it being a good starting point for converting H4 to H5. I think for a full conversion of a room to Hook5, if one desires to get the maximum hook5 is offering, it is necessary to do the work of revising the addon and it's textures. I have still a lot of rooms that are in need of a makeover, but I will finish this first, since I like it, and I already know my way around it in Blender and the other programs I use to make material textures.

 

Off-topic: How do you make sharp edges for objects in Blender so that they are correctly displayed in VX ?  The only way that I found, while using CollaTKane, is to split edges. Marking them as sharp doesn't get carried over to the final addon. All edges seem to be converted to smooth edges in game.

[OysterMug]

21 hours ago, Titanoboa Serpentes said:

@OysterMug Off-topic: How do you make sharp edges for objects in Blender so that they are correctly displayed in VX ?  The only way that I found, while using CollaTKane, is to split edges. Marking them as sharp doesn't get carried over to the final addon. All edges seem to be converted to smooth edges in game.

 

Hmm. Unfortunately, I still consider myself a bit of a newbie when it comes to Blender. I know just enough to makes rooms & toys, but that's about it.

[Titanoboa Serpentes]

@OysterMug Hi, I'm a rookie too. There must be some 200 shortcuts in Blender, so I've just scratched the surface. I just use the things that give me a good foundation for a hook5 conversion or upgrade. I did some mesh editing with bodies and 3D painting. Mostly I use blender to redo UV Maps to circumvent stretching. I also use it to convert meshes to hook5 objects. I'm a graphics aficionado, so everything I do is get a real nice picture in the end (personal preference, of course).

[penasduras]

@OysterMug

Hope you re doing fine...

Question for you. So... do you find better H5$ vs H5 free?

I am asking since in a way I have felt the same all along and have not made the change due to not getting the same or "better" results with H5$

What you and @Titanoboa Serpentes have been discussing is very interesting and I am trying to get my way there. Lots to learn ?

 

Also have a very easy and simple question. I have been trying to turn around the  envmap (skybox_cubemap =_hook5data\envmaps\19.dds) on one of my rooms (H5R_316Pool) by using the "skybox_angle = 0" with different angles like 90, 180 etc. with in my _level_definition.txt but nothing changes. 

Any chance you my know where this can be changed tweaked? 

Reason for this is that I would like to do an early AM scene but would like the sun rise from a particular side and currently is totally opposite from where I would like to have it.

I can move the sunlight with no issue... but would like to move the background to match it as well.

 

Hope you can help me out.

Thanks in advance for your help, ??

 

 

 

[RidSol]

The basic lighting is defined via the envmap and its parameters can be changed via the envsource angle - in GUI of the Extended H5 - or the cubesource_angle in _lefdef...

And by the way - Happy Easter ?

[OysterMug]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:38 PM, penasduras said:

Question for you. So... do you find better H5$ vs H5 free?

 

H5-Unlocked (I prefer that over "Paid" since you don't have to pay anymore and it wasn't "cracked") does everything (and more) as H5-Free, so it it superior in most ways.

 

Though H5 Free does have two advantages: 1) speed: a slightly better frame rate thanks to so much overhead being stripped out, and 2) easier to install & get running (just the one DLL). I'm not sure if it's even possible to install H5U under Linux/Wine (I haven't tried.)

 

If you don't have a video card built in the last 10 years (or are using a computer with "built-in" graphics), you might be better off sticking with H5F. Otherwise, give H5U a try. You'll like the extras.

 

Regarding "skybox_angle", this is everything the H5 docs have to say about the parameter:

 

"skybox rotation in degrees"

 

Not terribly helpful. You'll need to experiment.

Edited April 18, 2022 by OysterMug

[Titanoboa Serpentes]

@penasduras Hi, did you disable as background in your hook5 menu under skybox? There should only be skybox enable and the folder in which the skybox is located. The skybox that came with the room has to be disabled too. You can simply create a _pass.txt for your skybox texture that came with the room, e.g. room_skybox.png room_skybox_pass.txt and add the lines [pass] and, as a new line, name= discard in the _pass.txt file.

[penasduras]

17 hours ago, Titanoboa Serpentes said:

@penasduras Hi, did you disable as background in your hook5 menu under skybox? There should only be skybox enable and the folder in which the skybox is located. The skybox that came with the room has to be disabled too. You can simply create a _pass.txt for your skybox texture that came with the room, e.g. room_skybox.png room_skybox_pass.txt and add the lines [pass] and, as a new line, name= discard in the _pass.txt file.

 

Thank you @Titanoboa Serpentes!

will try doing this... or at least looking to do it... will let you know how it goes...

 

have tried but no change... let me tell you the details

1. I was not able to find any skybox texture that came with the room. I found this one instead 'R9ZRoom316_sky_sphere.png' so I created the pass file you suggested
2. _pass file reads like 'R9ZRoom316_sky_sphere_pass'
3. inside the file I have just two lines '[pass]' and 'name = discard'
4. my _level_definitition.txt reads like this

   1. [environment]
      ambient_color             = 230, 178, 178
      ambient_intensity     = 0.50
      parallax_correction     = true
      sky_intensity            = 0.90000

      cubecolor = 230, 178, 178, 062
      skybox_enable = true
      skybox_cubemap =_hook5data\envmaps\19.dds
      skybox_angle = 180

      cubesource_scale = 1.000000
      cubesource_curve = 1.000000
      glow_scale = 1.000000
      saturation_scale = 1.000000

      [sun_light]
      type                     = sunlight
      enable                 = true
      rotation             = 90, 0, 0
      color                    = 255, 199, 139
      intensity            = 1
      shadow_param        = 3.000000, 60.000000 
      game_control        = true

5. and I have been changing the 'skybox_angle = 180' but I am getting no changes inside the game

6. I am still using the H5 basic so I can not 'disable as background in your hook5 menu under skybox' (I assume this will be if I was using H5 unlocked correct)

Thanks again for reviewing my questions ? Much appreciated.

[penasduras]

On 4/17/2022 at 2:09 AM, RidSol said:

The basic lighting is defined via the envmap and its parameters can be changed via the envsource angle - in GUI of the Extended H5 - or the cubesource_angle in _lefdef...

And by the way - Happy Easter ?

 

Thank you @RidSol Happy Eastern! ?

Appreciate very much your answer although I am not trying to rotate the lighting. (no issues here)

what I am trying to do is to rotate the picture that serves as a background in the room so it matches where the light is coming from in the room An alternate will be rotating the room. (with out the background) Not sure if this is possible at all. perhaps it may be easier ?

 

please let me know whet you think...

[Titanoboa Serpentes]

@penasduras I think I got that name = discard wrong. If hook5 is case-sensitive, you can try name = Discard or name = BackgroundPass. To my knowledge, you can't rotate the room, because the center of the room is the RootNode (anchor point), at which all other objects are parented (attached) to. Even the skydome mesh is attached to that point. If you use the skybox_angle value for the skybox, and you don't see any changes, then the skybox texture isn't disabled.

[Daspex]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:10 PM, penasduras said:

 

Thank you @RidSol Happy Eastern! ?

Appreciate very much your answer although I am not trying to rotate the lighting. (no issues here)

what I am trying to do is to rotate the picture that serves as a background in the room so it matches where the light is coming from in the room An alternate will be rotating the room. (with out the background) Not sure if this is possible at all. perhaps it may be easier ?

 

please let me know whet you think...

@penasdurasHi,
 
look for something like this inside of the scene.bs file:
 
 
};
STransform :local_SUniverse1 . {
    SSimpleTransform.Translation Vector3f( -54.1374, -226.407, -1071.7 );
    SSimpleTransform.Scaling Vector3f( 19.4532, 19.4532, 19.4532 );
    SSimpleTransform.Rotation Vector3f( 90, 0, 0 );
    Object.Name "SUniverse1";
 
And change the SSimpleTransform.Rotation Vector3f to your needs.Hope that will help.

[deadarthas]

I want to add something for flickering lights the main problem comes with how this game generate shadows , shadows or not lack of light that makes it darker compare to the place with the light how the game dose is it create shadows as a lair on top so if you have multiple lights shadow gets darker which it actually should make it lighter in every place but the shadow has to remain the same not darker.

so in general if you use hook5 extended don not have all your light cast shadows it specially fuck with hair and some textures

[Mastermind1945]

Is it possible to rotate XYZ axis lighting with Hook5 as we did with Hook4? That's the one of the main reasons I do not move to VX. 

[OysterMug]

5 hours ago, Mastermind1945 said:

Is it possible to rotate XYZ axis lighting with Hook5 as we did with Hook4? That's the one of the main reasons I do not move to VX. 

 

Yes, H5 lights also move over an XYZ axis, but not in the same order or direction.

 

It made my "H4 to H5 Converter" a bit more complicated/frustrating to write.