[REQ] Female Super Mutant

[Revuu]

This topic was popping up over on the Fallout 4 forums. 

The problem is that the mariposa strain of FEV from the west coast games leaves the super mutants able to mate. The vault 87 FEV strain from Fallout 3 and 4 results in the super mutants being completely asexual (it also results in behemoths). 

 

So, sadly this mod wouldn't be lore friendly. But hell, when has that stopped us?

 

Eeeh, it's a lot more lore friendly than, say, Gundams. It's tweaking the localities and existing features of the game, rather than introducing entirely new ones from other series' for the sake of fanboyism.

[Halstrom]

This topic was popping up over on the Fallout 4 forums. 

The problem is that the mariposa strain of FEV from the west coast games leaves the super mutants able to mate. The vault 87 FEV strain from Fallout 3 and 4 results in the super mutants being completely asexual (it also results in behemoths). 

 

So, sadly this mod wouldn't be lore friendly. But hell, when has that stopped us?

Exactly, FONV Sexout has shown Super Mutants to be quite efficient at knocking up females. Lore Shmore.....

[Tyrranus]

Actually, there should be some sexual dimorphism among super mutants. In Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 there are references to super mutants being sexually active and identifying as male or female. 

 

When you talk to the Master, you can ask him if any of the FEMALE super mutants have reported becoming pregnant. And when you go to Broken Hills in Fallout 2, there's a super mutant couple (man and wife) who yell at each other constantly because she threw away his skin mags. There's also a super mutant at the bar there who will challenge you to arm wrestling and if you lose the screen goes dark and your character wakes up in another room with a ball gag stored in your inventory as a momento of that night. 

 

So they should have male and female parts, unlike the ones you can find in the tubes there in the Institute. And if Lily in Fallout New Vegas is anything to go by, the process strips out the victim's secondary sexual characteristics (so no big amazonian tits sadly), but they still mentally identify as male or female.

now now... dont go bringing up that forgotten age of gaming goodness when the game's actual initial inventors controlled things... its a bethesda title now and nearly star trek in its vulnerability to constant lore change/retcon

 

This topic was popping up over on the Fallout 4 forums. 

The problem is that the mariposa strain of FEV from the west coast games leaves the super mutants able to mate. The vault 87 FEV strain from Fallout 3 and 4 results in the super mutants being completely asexual (it also results in behemoths).

multiple competing strains of FEV? hell that makes too much sense to work

[Anonymous]

This topic was popping up over on the Fallout 4 forums. 

The problem is that the mariposa strain of FEV from the west coast games leaves the super mutants able to mate. The vault 87 FEV strain from Fallout 3 and 4 results in the super mutants being completely asexual (it also results in behemoths). 

 

So, sadly this mod wouldn't be lore friendly. But hell, when has that stopped us?

 

We don't really know if the Institute used FEV-87. Even so, Commonwealth mutties are too different from that strain.

[ndarkstar]

This topic was popping up over on the Fallout 4 forums. 

The problem is that the mariposa strain of FEV from the west coast games leaves the super mutants able to mate. The vault 87 FEV strain from Fallout 3 and 4 results in the super mutants being completely asexual (it also results in behemoths). 

 

So, sadly this mod wouldn't be lore friendly. But hell, when has that stopped us?

WARNING THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS!

 

 

Small thing about the Vault 87 version of the super mutants.. In 3 they're just about as dumb as a box of rocks and the skin color is different from that of the Mariposa mutants. That being said, the super mutants in FO4 seem to be a great deal more intelligent. We also know (SPOILERS AHEAD, STOP READING IF IT BOTHERS YOU, DAMNIT!!) that the Institute has been mucking about with it's own strains of FEV super mutants and their strain broke into the wild, even before Virgil escaped. Look at Swan, he wasn't made in DC, he's the product of Institute re-engineering the FEV. There's no reason why these various versions of the FEV could not and would not interact to cause the ability to breed, possibly leading to the reappearance of sex characteristics. Any species that can't reproduce is a failure, I've always wondered why FEV never 'fixed' that in some strange way.

[DarkLordofOverkill1]

 

This topic was popping up over on the Fallout 4 forums. 

The problem is that the mariposa strain of FEV from the west coast games leaves the super mutants able to mate. The vault 87 FEV strain from Fallout 3 and 4 results in the super mutants being completely asexual (it also results in behemoths). 

 

So, sadly this mod wouldn't be lore friendly. But hell, when has that stopped us?

WARNING THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS!

 

 

Small thing about the Vault 87 version of the super mutants.. In 3 they're just about as dumb as a box of rocks and the skin color is different from that of the Mariposa mutants. That being said, the super mutants in FO4 seem to be a great deal more intelligent. We also know (SPOILERS AHEAD, STOP READING IF IT BOTHERS YOU, DAMNIT!!) that the Institute has been mucking about with it's own strains of FEV super mutants and their strain broke into the wild, even before Virgil escaped. Look at Swan, he wasn't made in DC, he's the product of Institute re-engineering the FEV. There's no reason why these various versions of the FEV could not and would not interact to cause the ability to breed, possibly leading to the reappearance of sex characteristics. Any species that can't reproduce is a failure, I've always wondered why FEV never 'fixed' that in some strange way.

 

 

additionally, this brings up the very real danger of super mutants attempting to wipe out what's left of the human race, since most of them feed on humans. add to that the new ability to breed (both among them selves and with captured humans) and you have the very real threat of having them be the only semi-intelligent life left on the surface, since depending on your game choices, the institute is probably gone in a big flashy way.

 

why do i bring this up?

 

simple, it gives us a quest hook for going out of our way to rescue captures, and jsut generally putting our players into harms way with them, even more so than usual

 

[Anonymous]

 

This topic was popping up over on the Fallout 4 forums. 

The problem is that the mariposa strain of FEV from the west coast games leaves the super mutants able to mate. The vault 87 FEV strain from Fallout 3 and 4 results in the super mutants being completely asexual (it also results in behemoths). 

 

So, sadly this mod wouldn't be lore friendly. But hell, when has that stopped us?

WARNING THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS!

 

 

Small thing about the Vault 87 version of the super mutants.. In 3 they're just about as dumb as a box of rocks and the skin color is different from that of the Mariposa mutants. That being said, the super mutants in FO4 seem to be a great deal more intelligent. We also know (SPOILERS AHEAD, STOP READING IF IT BOTHERS YOU, DAMNIT!!) that the Institute has been mucking about with it's own strains of FEV super mutants and their strain broke into the wild, even before Virgil escaped. Look at Swan, he wasn't made in DC, he's the product of Institute re-engineering the FEV. There's no reason why these various versions of the FEV could not and would not interact to cause the ability to breed, possibly leading to the reappearance of sex characteristics. Any species that can't reproduce is a failure, I've always wondered why FEV never 'fixed' that in some strange way.

 

 

Mariposa strain mutants still retained their equipment. They couldn't reproduce, because FEV seen gametes as broken and "fixed" them.

 

Of course that rises a question why creatures like Deathclaws and possibly Wanamingos don't suffer the same effects, but one can assume it's because FEV used on Jackson's chameleons was tailored for them, instead of being half-done like in the case of FEV strains used on humans.

 

And Instutute was dumping their experiments on the surface. Swan was not only a volunteer to test FEV, but he was later released instead of being terminated.

[Reran]

Anyone else thinking about The Horde?
Also, has anyone made some advancement? Meshes or something?

[b00marrows]

I thought only females turned into super mutants, while males turned into the ... things that spat acid in FO3 ... Centaur? Hmm...

[tonicwalter]

I thought only females turned into super mutants, while males turned into the ... things that spat acid in FO3 ... Centaur? Hmm...

 

If you thought that, you'd be wrong.

 

As the wiki states, "the creation process [of centaurs] involved tossing a varied mix of humans, dogs, and other types of animals into a Forced Evolutionary Virus (FEV) vat to be infected by the virus [...]" - making the centaur the result of a very different approach to FEV mutation.

[b00marrows]

 

If you thought that, you'd be wrong.

 

As the wiki states, "the creation process [of centaurs] involved tossing a varied mix of humans, dogs, and other types of animals into a Forced Evolutionary Virus (FEV) vat to be infected by the virus [...]" - making the centaur the result of a very different approach to FEV mutation.

 

It was what i thought i remembered reading in one of fallout 3's vaults... Meh, oh well. I honestly dont remember what i had for breakfast this morning so yeah that proves my memorys use XD

[Doc_Ctdm]

Feminine female super mutants would be a cool addition. But I'd hope that they aren't, you know, actually hot or something. I'd prefer to see them still be huge and monstrous.

 

But as for the voices, I think you could probably change that by pitch shifting the super mutant voice files, right? Maybe.

[Anonymous]

 

 

If you thought that, you'd be wrong.

 

As the wiki states, "the creation process [of centaurs] involved tossing a varied mix of humans, dogs, and other types of animals into a Forced Evolutionary Virus (FEV) vat to be infected by the virus [...]" - making the centaur the result of a very different approach to FEV mutation.

 

It was what i thought i remembered reading in one of fallout 3's vaults... Meh, oh well. I honestly dont remember what i had for breakfast this morning so yeah that proves my memorys use XD

 

 

This is what happens when you start with a game like Fallout 3.

 

Vault 87 FEV was special, as it completely removes all traces of one's original gender, plus making subjects much more stupid and continuously mutating them - Behemoths of Fallout 3 are a result of long lived Super Mutants undergoing the same process that initially turned them from human to mutant, but multiple times.

 

What you remembered about Fallout 3 were converstations between super mutants. One of them had a mutie with flashbacks of his old life, saying "I think I might've been a woman", but that's just it.

 

Now in other Fallout games we have super mutants of both genders with working genitalia and with a varying degree of other characteristics preserved - for example in semi-canon (Screw you, Todd) Fallout Tactics female mutants can be distinguished by their voice.

[WearableNine]

Despite it being un-immersive to have female super mutants in the fallout universe, I would still like to have to female super mutants in my play-through.

 

Really hoping for this idea to come to fruition soon.

[b00marrows]

 

 

This is what happens when you start with a game like Fallout 3.

 

Vault 87 FEV was special, as it completely removes all traces of one's original gender, plus making subjects much more stupid and continuously mutating them - Behemoths of Fallout 3 are a result of long lived Super Mutants undergoing the same process that initially turned them from human to mutant, but multiple times.

 

What you remembered about Fallout 3 were converstations between super mutants. One of them had a mutie with flashbacks of his old life, saying "I think I might've been a woman", but that's just it.

 

Now in other Fallout games we have super mutants of both genders with working genitalia and with a varying degree of other characteristics preserved - for example in semi-canon (Screw you, Todd) Fallout Tactics female mutants can be distinguished by their voice.

 

 

Whats this? more proof bathesda cant write for shit? HAHAHA, ill have to go back and check i swear what i remember was read from terminals. something about males not having the same effect from FEV as females so they did something and the centaurs where born. Im probably just remembered it all wrong, oh well.

[Jeoshua]

FEV would not "fix" the lack of reproductive ability, as its goal is not a viable breeding race. Rather, the goal is singular, and similar to that of any other virus: Self Preservation. The Super Mutants are strong, fast, big, and mean. That allows them to survive much easier. They have very long lives, potentially immortal it seems, so no sexual breeding is necessary at all to ensure that the virus survives.

 

As pointed out, the West Coast muties have been shown to have sexual urges, if not reproductive ability. There is even a part in Fallout 2 where, if you buy a prostitute at the Cat's Paw in New Reno, you can get your companions a trick. If you do this with Marcus, he says something very interesting, saying that he "sure hopes she doesn't get pregnant", which is where the whole idea that the reproductive juices just take a while to start flowing again comes from.

 

Now, in the Fallout Bible, it's said that was just a joke... but I don't know how canon the Fallout Bible is. It's never been officially recognized as such, and does contain some things that fly in the face of in-game canon, such as the Vipers being gone after the events of the original game, except that in Fallout 2 and even in New Vegas people will sometimes mention the Vipers as if they still an active raider clan. In my opinion, Josh Sawyer trumps Chris Avellone (both wonderful writers, but J. Sawyer is more "Word Of God" IMHO).

 

This does bring up the potential of "infection", however. These super mutants, either East or West Coast, are infected with the Forced Evolutionary Virus.  If their juices are flowing at all, that means that a womb full of mutie spunk would have some amount of that Virus in it... Super Mutant-hood could potentially be contracted like an STD.

[Halstrom]

FEV would not "fix" the lack of reproductive ability, as its goal is not a viable breeding race. Rather, the goal is singular, and similar to that of any other virus: Self Preservation. The Super Mutants are strong, fast, big, and mean. That allows them to survive much easier. They have very long lives, potentially immortal it seems, so no sexual breeding is necessary at all to ensure that the virus survives.

 

As pointed out, the West Coast muties have been shown to have sexual urges, if not reproductive ability. There is even a part in Fallout 2 where, if you buy a prostitute at the Cat's Paw in New Reno, you can get your companions a trick. If you do this with Marcus, he says something very interesting, saying that he "sure hopes she doesn't get pregnant", which is where the whole idea that the reproductive juices just take a while to start flowing again comes from.

 

Now, in the Fallout Bible, it's said that was just a joke... but I don't know how canon the Fallout Bible is. It's never been officially recognized as such, and does contain some things that fly in the face of in-game canon, such as the Vipers being gone after the events of the original game, except that in Fallout 2 and even in New Vegas people will sometimes mention the Vipers as if they still an active raider clan. In my opinion, Josh Sawyer trumps Chris Avellone (both wonderful writers, but J. Sawyer is more "Word Of God" IMHO).

 

This does bring up the potential of "infection", however. These super mutants, either East or West Coast, are infected with the Forced Evolutionary Virus.  If their juices are flowing at all, that means that a womb full of mutie spunk would have some amount of that Virus in it... Super Mutant-hood could potentially be contracted like an STD.

Yeah that in itself would be interesting to just have Supermutation as a sexual or even non sexual disease with stages of transition requiring you to find a cure before its too late.

[Anonymous]

 

 

 

Whats this? more proof bathesda cant write for shit? HAHAHA, ill have to go back and check i swear what i remember was read from terminals. something about males not having the same effect from FEV as females so they did something and the centaurs where born. Im probably just remembered it all wrong, oh well.

 

Incredible results! After only three days, subjects B440, B164 and D624 (all our female specimens) are all exhibiting a unique change. Their bodies are undergoing severe physical changes, losing most of their visible female indicators and transforming to an almost asexual state. They are also seeing increased upper body strength and muscle formation in line with males.

 

Similarly, subjects C376 and A541 (our male specimens) are losing most of their visible male indicators and taking on the same asexual state as the females. It seems that the FEV wishes to "level the playing field" and start with a clean slate as it works.

 

TL;DR The result of humans infected with Vault 87's FEV is the same regardless of gender.

 

 

FEV would not "fix" the lack of reproductive ability, as its goal is not a viable breeding race. Rather, the goal is singular, and similar to that of any other virus: Self Preservation. The Super Mutants are strong, fast, big, and mean. That allows them to survive much easier. They have very long lives, potentially immortal it seems, so no sexual breeding is necessary at all to ensure that the virus survives.

 

[...]

 

FEV is a virus modifying DNA into a "perfect" form. The side effect of it is, that reproductive cells are being perfected too - their missing DNA sequences are seen as genetic damage and restored, making those cells unsuitable for their intended function. That's why super mutants are sterile.

Also FEV wasn't perfected for human use, hence the problem.

Deathclaws, for example, have no problem with reproduction, despite being FEV creations.

[Jeoshua]

I was thinking a bit more on this, specifically about mutant spunk and FEV. It would likely not be enough to really convert the recipient of said spunk, as Super Mutants always seem to need either full immersion or extensive FEV treatments to actually get to the level where they are recognizable as supermutants....

 

But the same could not be said for sexual gamettes. As pointed out, FEV's goal is "perfect DNA" and by pure dint of being a virus it has something that might be called a goal of reproduction, as a virus that doesn't spread couldn't even fully infect its host, but those who do spread do survive, and therefore the FEV still in the mutants must therefore be the kind that has some inclination to spread, or else it wouldn't exist anymore.

 

Anyways, since mutants don't keep mutating over time and seem to reach a stable point of some sort, either East or West coast, and also since those kinds of mutants which are different in some way (Abominations, Behemoths, Centaurs, and the like) aren't from the same root line and instead have had a differing application of FEV and/or selection of hosts than the standard supermutant, we can assume that the FEV isn't incredibly virulent. A really nasty FEV would cause its changes by mere contact, and nothing in the lore seems to point to contagion, nor "wild" mutants. There is even a line of thought that Ghouls are products of, not just radiation, but also minute traces of FEV in the air, also accounting for all the wasteland wildlife.

 

So as we see, FEV must be contagious and have some amount of virulence, but also logically must not be too incredibly so after such a long time. It wouldn't be enough to create a Super Mutant, but its virulence would certainly be high enough to destroy any chance of those imperfect haploid gametes (either eggs or sperm) from forming a viable fetus. I doubt it would even get far past the blastula stage before the FEV had totally destroyed its DNA and rendered the cells inert and lifeless. The X Chromosome doesn't just contain "Female parts" you know, it actually contains most of the DNA that makes us human, either Male or Female (Males have one X chromosome, and in Females only one X chromosome is active, the other backup). "Fixing" that in a growing embryo would kill it, as that information is vital to life itself, not just gender.

 

If the mutie spunk were motile and voluminous enough, there is a secondary concern. What happens when those sperm swim ALL the way up stream. They're perfected, remember. The Vaginal defenses that normally kill off all the weak sperm might not be ready for the mutant hordes at the gate. Once past the womb into the fallopian tubes, nothing would be able to stop these mini-muties. Do you see where this is going? Super mutantness might not be spreadable, but the sterility might very well be.

 

Just imagine the mutant's poor sexual partner's ovaries like a Super Mutant camp in the wasteland, gore bags and all...

 

This puts Marcus's comment at the Cat's Paw in a different light, too... and makes the "Hope she doesn't get pregnant" line into the realm of very dark humor, right in line with Fallout's style, and making the whole "It was a joke" thing from the Fallout Bible very true, if a bit fucked up.

[Nickolos1818]

With the story ( or lack there of ) the TTW Quest overhauls Supermutant content, one could expand upon it saying that some scientists in the DC wastes decided to take a look at the FEV that affected the mutants.  Upon tweaking, studying it and testing an unexpected outcome came from one of the test subjects.  A minor reversion of the FEV to show sexual indicators.   

 

Mod could go from there.

 

Also people need to understand about Lore for games like this, is that its ever EVOLVING!!!!  NOTHING is set, it continues.  Saying something is impossible because its one way now doesn't mean in a later game installment Bethesda decides to make say Ghouls and Supermutants a playable race in the base game.  Doing so would start a storm on the forums of how when F3 came out a Beth employee said they " won't make a playable race in game that can't have a background of being able to survive as a species in the wastes."  That could mean a lot of things, but one you would see a huge debate on would be " You mean Ghouls and Supermutants can reproduce now?!"

[Arialna Songbird]

First thing that pops into my mind... "Is there actual proof for a Female Behemoth~?" ...

 

I mean seriously, is there? I'd be interested on the Non-87 strand's effect on a Female, with the result of a Behemoth~

 

In all honesty though, with SexTec, won't it become "Bang or Be Banged"~? <3

[Bemoteajh]

Um.

 

Approx. 50% of supermutants ARE female. 

 

Or were. Sometimes they even remember it. https://youtu.be/RBrEQ_HJ5BY?t=123 

 

I thought they were 100% female and thats what the FEV did to them

[Halstrom]

Seems strange the number of Super mutants about considering they are all supposed to be made in labs that are so extremely rare...........

[tonicwalter]

I thought they were 100% female and thats what the FEV did to them

 

 

That has been stated multiple times in this thread - and it's still false.

Why does nobody ever read anything.

[Jeoshua]

The Mutants aren't 100% female, get that out of your head. Depending on whether you ask the original Black Isle people or Bethesda, there are differing levels of completeness, but ultimately agree on the fact that they're functionally asexual now, at least as regards their reproductive fertility, if not their very bodies themselves. Either way, they're neither male nor female anymore, regardless of what they were before they became mutants.

 

The idea comes from, I think, the fact that in Fallout 3 any super mutant you come across may indeed talk to other muties, saying "I think.... I used to be.... a WOMAN!!"... And that's every single super mutant that has the possibility of saying that, not just male or females in the NPC record or something. The thing is that's not proof they actually were, only an offbeat joke and indication that the process has actually changed them physically as well as mentally, and that whatever they were before, ultimately they're all mutant now. Also, the fact that ALL of them have a chance to say it (besides Behemoths, who never chatter in any manner at all except grunts and howls as far as I remember) doesn't mean that they never were women in their former lives, any more than some other mutie getting a headache from thinking maybe he knew and/or was a woman isn't proof they actually were one, either.