So has Racemenu "beaten" ECE?

[wolverinehowlett]

will racemenu feature the shoulder/legs slider from ECE?

[ousnius]

Please tell me this CITRUS integration thing you're all talking about doesn't mean I'll be forced to use a CITRUS headmesh, or at the vert least it won't fuck up my existing characters.

 

I don't want a new headmesh, but moreso I don't want to lose my characters because I was forced to use a new headmesh. I don't care if it's compatible, I don't even care if the changes would be "minor". I don't want my characters' faces messed up because I had something I didn't want shoved down my throat.

 

Dude, you're too paranoid.

 

It will be an option that you have to enable in the CharGen config files. And maybe even a separate archive to install.

[Absurdity]

 

I too, would like to see some screenshots of characters actually created using the vertex edit. I'm pretty sure that it's a VERY SMALL minority of people actually make use of it, people like to make the argument that this is a main feature and advantage. I sincerely doubt these same people are even using it themselves. "But it's got electrolytes! It's got what plants crave."

 

 

 

 

 

Not really "created" but definitely heavily modified with the vertex edit because the normal sliders in combination with the vanilla head mesh have the habit of creating really ugly edges on the chin or jaw which often also cause lighting issues on the face.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ousnius]

 

 

I too, would like to see some screenshots of characters actually created using the vertex edit. I'm pretty sure that it's a VERY SMALL minority of people actually make use of it, people like to make the argument that this is a main feature and advantage. I sincerely doubt these same people are even using it themselves. "But it's got electrolytes! It's got what plants crave."

 

 

 

 

 

Not really "created" but definitely heavily modified with the vertex edit because the normal sliders in combination with the vanilla head mesh have the habit of creating really ugly edges on the chin or jaw which often also cause lighting issues on the face.

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus f*ck, that first screenshot. 

PS: Can't wait for vertex editing in RM together with the Citrus head.

[Guest]

 

 

I too, would like to see some screenshots of characters actually created using the vertex edit. I'm pretty sure that it's a VERY SMALL minority of people actually make use of it, people like to make the argument that this is a main feature and advantage. I sincerely doubt these same people are even using it themselves. "But it's got electrolytes! It's got what plants crave."

 

 

 

 

 

Not really "created" but definitely heavily modified with the vertex edit because the normal sliders in combination with the vanilla head mesh have the habit of creating really ugly edges on the chin or jaw which often also cause lighting issues on the face.

 

 

 

 

This right here is the main draw of ECE, I hate that I can't smooth out the chin with RM. 

 

But hopefully once RM gets it's face sculpting feature integrated we can finally put this whole "ECE is for the face experts" thing to rest. Because frankly, it's mostly so much elitist bullshit. 

 

Nice pic btw Absurdity, always liked your character. 

[Groovtama]

 

 

 

I too, would like to see some screenshots of characters actually created using the vertex edit. I'm pretty sure that it's a VERY SMALL minority of people actually make use of it, people like to make the argument that this is a main feature and advantage. I sincerely doubt these same people are even using it themselves. "But it's got electrolytes! It's got what plants crave."

 

 

 

 

 

Not really "created" but definitely heavily modified with the vertex edit because the normal sliders in combination with the vanilla head mesh have the habit of creating really ugly edges on the chin or jaw which often also cause lighting issues on the face.

 

 

 

 

This right here is the main draw of ECE, I hate that I can't smooth out the chin with RM. 

 

But hopefully once RM gets it's face sculpting feature integrated we can finally put this whole "ECE is for the face experts" thing to rest. Because frankly, it's mostly so much elitist bullshit. 

 

Nice pic btw Absurdity, always liked your character. 

 

 

Try citrus head you don't need to "smooth" anything because everything is smooth by design.^^

[Taskmaster]

 

 

 

I too, would like to see some screenshots of characters actually created using the vertex edit. I'm pretty sure that it's a VERY SMALL minority of people actually make use of it, people like to make the argument that this is a main feature and advantage. I sincerely doubt these same people are even using it themselves. "But it's got electrolytes! It's got what plants crave."

 

 

 

 

 

Not really "created" but definitely heavily modified with the vertex edit because the normal sliders in combination with the vanilla head mesh have the habit of creating really ugly edges on the chin or jaw which often also cause lighting issues on the face.

 

 

 

 

This right here is the main draw of ECE, I hate that I can't smooth out the chin with RM. 

 

But hopefully once RM gets it's face sculpting feature integrated we can finally put this whole "ECE is for the face experts" thing to rest. Because frankly, it's mostly so much elitist bullshit. 

 

Nice pic btw Absurdity, always liked your character. 

 

 

Well said. I've been waiting to smooth out cheeks, and rounding out the chin so it isn't pointy. You can also make cleft chins with the vertex editor, too. I also want to make some asymmetrical changes like nostril size, and some eye stuff, tasteful imperfections.

 

I can't wait for RM's sculptor.

[EternalDamned]

I've tried both, many times and retry both when either is updated. But thats because I'm crazy...and why I keep going back to RM. ECE is good, works great for a PC. But I have edited every single female in my game. The respawning (generic) females I do mainly in CK, but unique females I will set as a character preset, open it in racemenu edit the hell out of it until it looks the way I want with the SG hair I want on her, then import the head into CK. Now I know this is possible with ECE, but it is not nearly as reliable or quick. With RM I don't have to go in first and add in the extra "nosetype31" IIRC to properly import the headmesh. And while I realize it doesn't take THAT much longer with ECE...when you are doing several hundred characters...those extra minutes here and there add up! The only real complaint I have with RM is that it doesn't save the eyes and hairs when exporting the heads. So I have to write those down and re-do them in CK. Now if only someone would make an up to date version of Skyrim NPC editor..since it has been abandoned since March of 2012.

[Expired6978]

Please tell me this CITRUS integration thing you're all talking about doesn't mean I'll be forced to use a CITRUS headmesh, or at the vert least it won't fuck up my existing characters.

 

I don't want a new headmesh, but moreso I don't want to lose my characters because I was forced to use a new headmesh. I don't care if it's compatible, I don't even care if the changes would be "minor". I don't want my characters' faces messed up because I had something I didn't want shoved down my throat.

You won't be forced to use it no, it'll be a separate mod. The mod will add config files that are compatible with a newer version of CharGen. These config files will allow for part replacement overrides. Which will essentially override the Race default part entry regardless of what mods you have (unless you have more config files by other mods, then its load-order dependent on only those other mods). This lets you replace the head of the race without editing the entire rest of the race (which would cause compatibility issues otherwise).

 

will racemenu feature the shoulder/legs slider from ECE?

Not by default, no. I believe there are (or will be) plugins that allow for more extensive nodal sliders.

 

I've tried both, many times and retry both when either is updated. But thats because I'm crazy...and why I keep going back to RM. ECE is good, works great for a PC. But I have edited every single female in my game. The respawning (generic) females I do mainly in CK, but unique females I will set as a character preset, open it in racemenu edit the hell out of it until it looks the way I want with the SG hair I want on her, then import the head into CK. Now I know this is possible with ECE, but it is not nearly as reliable or quick. With RM I don't have to go in first and add in the extra "nosetype31" IIRC to properly import the headmesh. And while I realize it doesn't take THAT much longer with ECE...when you are doing several hundred characters...those extra minutes here and there add up! The only real complaint I have with RM is that it doesn't save the eyes and hairs when exporting the heads. So I have to write those down and re-do them in CK. Now if only someone would make an up to date version of Skyrim NPC editor..since it has been abandoned since March of 2012.

The Exported head will carry everything including hair. The only problem with the exported head is that you need the part names to match that of the NPC, or the NPC wont load the exported head, you could probably just open the exported head in nifskope and rename the parts to ones that the NPC does have.

[wolverinehowlett]

@expired 

there is one mod in nexus that has them but it has been too crash-happy for me....whike normal racemenu works like a charm

[Shaydow]

 

Please tell me this CITRUS integration thing you're all talking about doesn't mean I'll be forced to use a CITRUS headmesh, or at the vert least it won't fuck up my existing characters.

 

I don't want a new headmesh, but moreso I don't want to lose my characters because I was forced to use a new headmesh. I don't care if it's compatible, I don't even care if the changes would be "minor". I don't want my characters' faces messed up because I had something I didn't want shoved down my throat.

You won't be forced to use it no, it'll be a separate mod. The mod will add config files that are compatible with a newer version of CharGen. These config files will allow for part replacement overrides. Which will essentially override the Race default part entry regardless of what mods you have (unless you have more config files by other mods, then its load-order dependent on only those other mods). This lets you replace the head of the race without editing the entire rest of the race (which would cause compatibility issues otherwise).

 

This is good, I was worried about this also. I did try the Citrus head as I can see the benefits of it. Sadly after over a year of fine tuning characters here and there, getting two EXACTLY the way I want them, Citrus just totally messes it all up. It's the missing sliders I know it is, but sadly without those sliders everything goes to hell and I go from a great looking character to  OH MY GOD KILL IT WITH FIRE! 

 

will racemenu feature the shoulder/legs slider from ECE?

Not by default, no. I believe there are (or will be) plugins that allow for more extensive nodal sliders.

 

Are you talking about the extended  slider plugin? Myself and a couple of my Celestial users have noted that breast scaling resets to 1 on any load, it won't save the breast scale. Since I use only max weights with no weight slider compatibility to avoid neck seam and armor clipping issues, I've always pointed my users to RaceMenu to adjust Breast Size, and well, since using this plugin resets it back to 1 on load, this is a deal breaker for Celestials. Any idea what's going on there?

 

[Brapboi]

I'll upload a picture of my character when I get home. I recently tried RM before I left for school though. It's changed a lot since I last used it, that's for sure. One thing I noticed was that the sliders were all over the place though.

 

Also couldn't fix some parts like the lips not being puffy. It looked like the lips were squished and it bothered me so much but decided to just stick with it for now. I'll try out the method suggested a page back to recreate my original creator.

 

Hopefully to be able to send her to Familiar Faces. I'm pretty satisfied with what I was able to do in RM but the vertex editing would really take it up a notch.

[Silver Wolf]

Racemenu is better than ECE in any way for me. Much more stable, sliders are the same I guess. Been using it since racemenu and chargen extension were 2 seperated mod and love it !

The feature I like most is face/headmesh export. It help me save huge time tweaking follower face. Instead of doing many step like in ECE, I just have to export the headmesh and merge to npc face using Nif merge. The face tint export is always 100% accurate, dont have to touch it in CK

[Expired6978]

This is good, I was worried about this also. I did try the Citrus head as I can see the benefits of it. Sadly after over a year of fine tuning characters here and there, getting two EXACTLY the way I want them, Citrus just totally messes it all up. It's the missing sliders I know it is, but sadly without those sliders everything goes to hell and I go from a great looking character to  OH MY GOD KILL IT WITH FIRE! 

Citrus isn't missing any sliders in the version to be released. I made a 3dsMax script to specifically mass convert all of the morphs. This is WHY nobody had created a new head before, because it meant converting a ton of morphs. This was overcome by quadrifying the mesh, subdividing it, then retriangulating, then using skin wrap to copy the morphs for a different topology. blabba just smoothed a few things out like the chin, otherwise it would have looked the same just with more polys.

 

Been using ECE for over a year now. I remember that after I finished Skyrim for the first time I started looking for a good pack of mods to create a female character for new game. I bumped into RaceMenu and it seemed pretty immersive to me when being totally unaccustomed to Skyrim's modding potential. I created a character, but she wasn't interesting much and soon I abandoned the idea. Since I like my characters to look more Asian I started looking for all the mods used within Japanese community and this is how I came upon ECE. I have to say it impressed me far more than RaceMenu and even with it growing bigger, getting more support I'm still loyal to ECE. I think I just like how clear ECE is and how easy and pleasant, for a character creation, it is to come up with something nice.

All of that asian look stuff is also in RaceMenu (as it's directly ported from ECE) it's just not immediately there upon installation, you have to look for it.

 

Racemenu is better than ECE in any way for me. Much more stable, sliders are the same I guess. Been using it since racemenu and chargen extension were 2 seperated mod and love it !

The feature I like most is face/headmesh export. It help me save huge time tweaking follower face. Instead of doing many step like in ECE, I just have to export the headmesh and merge to npc face using Nif merge. The face tint export is always 100% accurate, dont have to touch it in CK

You don't have to do the head merging anymore if you assign the parts to the NPC, you can directly use the exported mesh now. The only caveat is that the part names in the Nif have to match the part names on the NPC, which nif merger will avoid by just copying the geometry data ontop of existing parts from the CK export.

[Jormungandr]

I'm using RaceMenu since the day it got released, before that i totally digged the extended color sliders.

 

Used ECE  like 3 times for a preset which i then turned into a RaceMenu preset. the only thing that's a bit annoying are the mouth corner "spikes", but i'm sure that'll get sorted out sooner or later, or i'm doing it wrong.   I kinda blew up my elf sliders with nuskas overhaul though, but i never bothered to fix this since i rarely play elves, or rather i got demotivated because it's a general pain in the ass to make a good looking elf, even with working sliders.

 

That said, i'm looking forward to the sculptor.

 

 

@Expired; I For some reason the majority of the sliders are double listed in my RaceMenu though, that's not perhaps because i was too lazy to delete the old chargen.dll?

[Shaydow]

 

This is good, I was worried about this also. I did try the Citrus head as I can see the benefits of it. Sadly after over a year of fine tuning characters here and there, getting two EXACTLY the way I want them, Citrus just totally messes it all up. It's the missing sliders I know it is, but sadly without those sliders everything goes to hell and I go from a great looking character to  OH MY GOD KILL IT WITH FIRE! 

Citrus isn't missing any sliders in the version to be released. I made a 3dsMax script to specifically mass convert all of the morphs. This is WHY nobody had created a new head before, because it meant converting a ton of morphs. This was overcome by quadrifying the mesh, subdividing it, then retriangulating, then using skin wrap to copy the morphs for a different topology. blabba just smoothed a few things out like the chin, otherwise it would have looked the same just with more polys.

 

 

 

 

In the released version 2.1 here or a future version?

[Groovtama]

 

 

 

will racemenu feature the shoulder/legs slider from ECE?

Not by default, no. I believe there are (or will be) plugins that allow for more extensive nodal sliders.

 

Are you talking about the extended  slider plugin? Myself and a couple of my Celestial users have noted that breast scaling resets to 1 on any load, it won't save the breast scale. Since I use only max weights with no weight slider compatibility to avoid neck seam and armor clipping issues, I've always pointed my users to RaceMenu to adjust Breast Size, and well, since using this plugin resets it back to 1 on load, this is a deal breaker for Celestials. Any idea what's going on there?

 

The "RaceMenu for XPMS" on Nexus is faulty and should not be used by anyone in my eyes. Don't use the words extended on it for people would think you mean the included plugin in XPMSE. 

 

[Shaydow]

 

The "RaceMenu for XPMS" on Nexus is faulty and should not be used by anyone in my eyes. Don't use the words extended on it for people would think you mean the included plugin in XPMSE. 

 

Sorry about that. I just got the names confused myself. Didn't mean anything by it.

[Gagoloth]

Ill switch over to RM when i can recreate my character perfectly. (pic below)

 

 

Iv given RM a couple hours of my time but i still can't come close to what i can make with ECE. RM face sculptor better be all that its hyped to be, because if it inst i'm not switching over.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Ill switch over to RM when i can recreate my character perfectly. (pic below)

 

 

Iv given RM a couple hours of my time but i still can't come close to what i can make with ECE. RM face sculptor better be all that its hyped to be, because if it inst i'm not switching over.

And if it isn't...oh well. 

[crudo]

When I first started my modded Skyrim games I used RaceMenu and quite liked it.  I was confused/annoyed by the repeated sliders once I added Chargen Extensions, it just became a bit unwieldy, not impossible to use just awkward.  I forget why I tried ECE but I did and I liked the cleaner interface, it has all the sliders I want, nothing is duplicated and my favorite part is the scaling of the body parts that I can't find on RaceMenu such as shoulders, legs, waist, butt and so on.  With the additon of "nettlemerse overide" (sp?) I can add tattoos with SlaveTats.  The one thing I don't use is the vertex editor that everyone seems to fixate on.

 

I think I may be a version behind on RaceMenu, I have it in my mod folder it's just not active.

 

I would happily use RaceMenu if it were the only option, it's an excellent character creator.  Given the choice I will stick with ECE for the reasons I wrote above.

[Shaydow]

Ill switch over to RM when i can recreate my character perfectly. (pic below)

 

 

Iv given RM a couple hours of my time but i still can't come close to what i can make with ECE. RM face sculptor better be all that its hyped to be, because if it inst i'm not switching over.

 

This looks NO different then what I can make in RaceMenu, None.

 

*edit* as a matter of fact, her eyes are to high. You should drop them a little ( not bashing your design just saying ). Can you drop them farther in ECE?

[Gagoloth]

 

Ill switch over to RM when i can recreate my character perfectly. (pic below)

 

 

Iv given RM a couple hours of my time but i still can't come close to what i can make with ECE. RM face sculptor better be all that its hyped to be, because if it inst i'm not switching over.

 

This looks NO different then what I can make in RaceMenu, None.

 

*edit* as a matter of fact, her eyes are to high. You should drop them a little ( not bashing your design just saying ). Can you drop them farther in ECE?

 

 

Kidding me right? almost every single face i see made by racemenu are almost always Big lips, huge nose, long face. Id honestly like to see something good from someone with some sort of skill with racemenu. But then again everybody's tastes are different so something you might like allot i may dislike.  For my point here is a pic off of the racemenu image page from the nexus.

 

 

Not dissing this persons character but iv seen Sooooooo many faces from racemenu which are extremely similar to this over and over again hundreds of times.

 

 

Of coarse you can drop the eyes in ECE. everything with the the face can be changed with ece through vertex edit. 

 

*I like where the eyes are personally, but i'm always tweaking it in everyday so you never know what ill change.

[zzz72w3r]

Not dissing this persons character but iv seen Sooooooo many faces from racemenu which are extremely similar to this over and over again hundreds of times.

 

So are ECE presets on Nexus.  The reason is that very few authors share their presets so the few well made ones get used repeatedly by others as a foundation. 

 

Hopefully this won't come across as obtuse but all these argument of one tool's supposed superiority over another in the hands of skillful person is frankly annoying and elitist.  I doubt authors of ECE and RM dedicated their times to create these tools so people like you can say "look what I can do but you cannot play with it because it's mine only".  Unless you have provided your supposedly superior faces/characters to share in the past or planning to in the future, STFU in terms which tool you think is superior because as far as the rest of the world is concern your opinions mean diddly squat.

 

/end rant from one who is not 3D sculptor

[Absurdity]

 

Not dissing this persons character but iv seen Sooooooo many faces from racemenu which are extremely similar to this over and over again hundreds of times.

 

So are ECE presets on Nexus.  The reason is that very few authors share their presets so the few well made ones get used repeatedly by others as a foundation. 

 

Hopefully this won't come across as obtuse but all these argument of one tool's supposed superiority over another in the hands of skillful person is frankly annoying and elitist.  I doubt authors of ECE and RM dedicated their times to create these tools so people like you can say "look what I can do but you cannot play with it because it's mine only".  Unless you have provided your supposedly superior faces/characters to share in the past or planning to in the future, STFU in terms which tool you think is superior because as far as the rest of the world is concern your opinions mean diddly squat.

 

/end rant from one who is not 3D sculptor

 

 

Gotta disagree on that. Why should I have to provide my character's face, on which I spent a ridiculous amount of hours on, for other people when I want to voice my opinion about two character customisation mods? Because they don't feel like putting some work into it and therefore their opinions are more valid? Wtf?

 

I'm neither a 3D sculptor nor am I very experienced with 3ds/Blender, I started with something like THIS

but simply kept going until I achieved a satisfying result.

 

It was never about "look what I can do but you cannot play with it because it's mine only" or acting like my characters are somehow superior to other people's.

 

If you don't want to spend too much time on character creation and use one of the presets provided by other people instead that's totally fine but then you shouldn't act like you know way better which of the tools is more useful than the people who actually used them for hours upon hours.

 

/end rant from someone who isn't a 3d sculptor but didn't blame those who may be for his character's uglyness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now to get back on topic, RM's execution, support and it's variety on plugins are definitely superior to ECE and the fact that the author seems to have abandoned it doesn't really help but I like that I can "smooth out" the normal facegen's faults with vertex edit and I don't really need the overlay features so until RM gets its face sculptor thingy I'll be keeping ECE for a little longer.