Turrets falling through platforms to the ground

[Veladarius]

Ok, I posted this a long time ago and have been trying to identify the mod that is the culprit but have not been able to figure this out.

 

I will come back to a settlement and some or all of the turrets will have fallen from wherever they were placed (on building tops or ledges along walls) and fall all the way to the ground even if it means they are in a solid object like a stone or concrete foundation floor block. Sometime it will be an entire group of turrets, sometimes it is most of a group but some are still in place.

 

The odd thing is that the wires connecting them are still in their original position and the turrets, no matter how far they fell (some have gone through a 3 story building) are still operating as if the wires are still connected to them.

 

Here is an example (the pink outline is from a vision mod):

Currently the turrets are unpowered as I had started to fix this when I took the screen shot but you can see the the wire running above the platform where the turrets were. If I select the turret in the construction menu the wire snaps to the turret's current location but I can't move it because the wire can't go through the platform (small concrete floor piece). This has happened with all kinds of surfaces and turrets. I have removed mods that altered the items they have fallen through, I have removed the one turret mod I used and a number of other mods but it keeps happening at seemingly random times.

 

Has anyone else seen anything like this happen?

[Andy14]

I know the problem with using "Place Everywhere" when collision or snap was disabled while building. But only with turrets.

[Veladarius]

I have never used the snap function this is something that did not happen for some time and have no idea what "Place Everywhere" refers to, never heard of it. I also don't disable collision when building, no real need to do it.

[Veladarius]

Again, single turret out of 70+ turrets in Sanctuary. The only other thing I have had happen that is similar to this is npc's sometimes falling through a floor piece. Still playing with mods to see if one is responsible (the turret mods I have are not, I removed them for a while and it still happened) and adjusting load order bit by bit mainly focusing on the mods that affect the things that things fall through.

[Andy14]

NPC's too?

Through the floor?

From the first floor to the ground floor (e.g) - iit's bad wayfinding for NPC's.

 

Or through the ground?
If through the ground and it's not limited to a specific settlement, I think you have installed a mod that plays around with Havok (collsion etc.)

[Veladarius]

2 hours ago, Andy14 said:

NPC's too?

Through the floor?

From the first floor to the ground floor (e.g) - iit's bad wayfinding for NPC's.

 

Or through the ground?
If through the ground and it's not limited to a specific settlement, I think you have installed a mod that plays around with Havok (collsion etc.)

I'm not sure how far they have fallen, likely just through the floor but are standing on the ground. Some have been as deep in solid blocks as their shoulders.

 

I have had them fall through the metal concrete floors, warehouse roof and floor pieces and some parts from other mods that adds standard pieces normally not available for construction. In the 3 pictures I have had people fall through floors in the RR station (just ground floor but some as deep as their nose), turrets fall through any of the parts in the RR station and Tenpines Bluff (including concrete floors) but never at the Grey Garden location but anything that falls through just goes to the ground (not through it). There are other settlements where this has not happened though.

 

I think it may be an issue when a cell is loaded that causes it seeing that it is random and not all turrets fall though I have had a long string of them fall in sanctuary several times. I use a personal Vertibird mod and it has landed through floors (RR station roof is where it should land but it has landed all the way on the ground going through several floors on the way down and in several spots there). I am not sure if it is related to the number of items at the settlements as some have as many as 1200+ items that I have added and few have much in the way of decorations). It has happened even if walking to the settlement as well.

 

 

I am pretty sure pathfinding is pretty screwed up in my game and has been from day 1 as I usually find npc's or brahmin on the roofs of the houses in Sanctuary or on top of the Red Rocket station.

[Andy14]

The construction limit in the settlements depends on the number of polygons.

In each settlement different limits have been set - it should serve the stability.

NPC's on the roof and Brahmins in the kitchen - is a Feauture of FO4 - not only with you. That's what I meant by bad wayfinding.

Turrets are animated and in your enormous number, maybe Havok is busy / time question when loading the cell.
No idea whether this is an ini setting - I did not have the problem yet.

Why do you need so much turrets - do you expect a visit? 

[Veladarius]

I expect a visit and expect my settlements to defend themselves. I used a mod to remove the limit on construction so my defensive value (looked up using another mod) of most settlements tends to be around 1200 - 1500. The most heavily defended place I have is the Starlight Drive In and is near a defensive value of 2000. Since the chances of bandits (or anything else) specifically attacking is directly related to the defensive value my settlements rarely get attacked. My settlements tend to be more like fortresses though Sanctuary only has turrets along the wall at 3 places and some on roofs in case the enemy gets inside.

 

Here is one version I have of Starlight Drive In, I think it has more turrets than I have at the Castle.

 

I do have Ugrids to Load set to 7 and from the roof of my RR settlement I can use a weapon with a good scope and see the turrets and such from Abernathy Farm and Sanctuary from the same spot.

[Veladarius]

I may have found part of the issue but I thought I saved the log that showed it.

 

When importing a settlement I got a lot of dump stack errors with a lot of it mentioning the havoc physics being disabled. I will check it again on the next one I import but on the one where the errors showed up I had a group of turrets fall through the wall ledges and roof just like the first 2 pictures. Seems to be the same turrets that do it too as there were some in the area of the first group that did not fall this time and have not fallen before. This is on a completely new game too.

[Veladarius]

Imported another settlement, tenpines Bluff with close to 750 objects imported. The last half or more of the log is dump stack errors concerning the items placed but it is after the settlement has been completely imported and is done. You can see where all the items are imported, wired and power applied to them.

 

This is with all the latest versions installed.

 

Papyrus.0 - Copy (6).log

[Andy14]

I really have no questions about that anymore.
By mod increase the limits - ok.

But 70 and more turrets for a value that is actually nonsensical. 2000 for defense?

Whether a settlement is attacked - or not - depends exclusively on the ratio of EAT + WATER.
At least one of x - the probability of an attack is the one provided by the game.

The frequency / chance is dependent on the relationship between the value of food + water and defense.

Since only about 20 settlers are in a settlement and for full happiness only 1.5 of them are needed = 30 food + 30 water.
Minimum defense should be more than 60.
More than 5x more will not affect the frequency of the attacks. (personal assessment by means of experiments)

 

The value of defense with more than 300 (in this example) is a waste of resources
I play Fallout 4 very comfortably, with DLC FarHarbor - actually all DLC, but they do not interest me.

I have about 6-10 attacks on settlement throughout the game.
I never have to help - only sometimes repair 1-2 turrets.

 

 

The message is: Less is more - in this case - much less. Nobody needs a value in defense of 2000.
I think if you re-think your game, your settlers will be very well protected and your turrets will be in the right place - every bet.

 

[Veladarius]

On 12/21/2017 at 3:56 PM, Andy14 said:

I really have no questions about that anymore.
By mod increase the limits - ok.

But 70 and more turrets for a value that is actually nonsensical. 2000 for defense?

Whether a settlement is attacked - or not - depends exclusively on the ratio of EAT + WATER.
At least one of x - the probability of an attack is the one provided by the game.

The frequency / chance is dependent on the relationship between the value of food + water and defense.

Since only about 20 settlers are in a settlement and for full happiness only 1.5 of them are needed = 30 food + 30 water.
Minimum defense should be more than 60.
More than 5x more will not affect the frequency of the attacks. (personal assessment by means of experiments)

 

The value of defense with more than 300 (in this example) is a waste of resources
I play Fallout 4 very comfortably, with DLC FarHarbor - actually all DLC, but they do not interest me.

I have about 6-10 attacks on settlement throughout the game.
I never have to help - only sometimes repair 1-2 turrets.

 

 

The message is: Less is more - in this case - much less. Nobody needs a value in defense of 2000.
I think if you re-think your game, your settlers will be very well protected and your turrets will be in the right place - every bet.

 

I still have settlements that get attacked that have a defense of well over 700 and as high as 1500 in some cases playing on Very Hard. The attacks are rather rare but still do happen, especially with the Automatron DLC robots or Gunners when I am at higher levels not to mention that some settlements are not far from just regular random enemy spawn points. Is it excessive? Yes but the number of times I had settlements calling for help while I was in Far Harbor was rather frequent. As it is I use a Settlement Management mod which give statistics and allows you to assign settlers and such but it also lets you see the spawn points. There are 3 around Sanctuary, one to the east of the bridge one you enter Sanctuary, one at the path to vault 111 and one to the east of the Sanctuary in line with the destroyed house there (which is where most of the dropped turret pics came from) so I have turrets clustered at those 3 areas there and on top of some of the houses in case any get inside (the longer you wait to go when they ask for help the better the chance of them being inside the settlement when you get there).

 

I have tried something different and actually have the turrets partially on the concrete wall the ledge is attached to and have not had anything drop yet.