i noticed why there isn't any me3 mod section here

[Guest Lady Luck]

hey forums

 

did you guys felt something missing on this community like our own me3 little modding sections? i'm, kinda curious what bioware has to offer mass effect fans and their tools.

[gregathit]

... bioware ... mod tools? LOL! Those guys couldn't manage to make the game without borking it up. They never made any tools to mod things.

 

The fans have made the tools and mods without any support from bioware at all. The only mods out there are text mods and they can be found in here: http://www.loverslab.com/Forum-Tutorials-Guides--33 and here: http://www.loverslab.com/Forum-Adult-Gaming--26

 

Just a little browsing and you will find them

[Guest Lady Luck]

ah ok , lol bioware should know that modders made the game famous , it's boring to use vanilla weapons on mass effect

[GSBmodders]

Bioware knows that modding is popular, they supported modding when nearly no other developer would. You should also note that many of Bioware's developers are old school mod authors including the former owners. What you are missing is that Bioware and there new owners Electronic Arts are also very aware that it is hard to sell DLC when they have to compete with mod authors, they also know that by supporting the modding communities they need commit more money and man power which greatly effects the bottom line now that pc gaming is declining. For now this no longer something that Bioware can chose to do without permission from there new owners EA

 

perhaps some time in the near future should valve convince developers that mods are a good thing and that there is no harm in paid modding then pc gaming will once again gain in popularity enough that EA decides to jump on board. Despite what others may say about paid modding it is my belief that it could very well be the savoir of pc gaming.

[Password42]

now that pc gaming is declining.

Wait what?

[Evilrunner]

now that pc gaming is declining.

Wait what?

 

News to me too, I think people are just looking in the wrong places.

[GSBmodders]

now that pc gaming is declining.

Wait what?

 

News to me too' date=' I think people are just looking in the wrong places.

[/quote']

 

It's all about retail space, look in any store and tell me that pc games have an equal footing. You cant, entire walls are dedicated to console game's. This has been acknowledged by both publishers and developers. Even ATI and nVidia have discussed this and both are concerned tat the current trend of digital sale's will bottom out as pc game's continue to lose out on retail space.

[Mashi]

All that really means is that consoles will end up being left in the dust. No one really tracks digital sales, but digital sales released by steam, origin, beamdog and impluse are quickly eating up the retail market, and so are other companies(that sell on those services like GMG, and independents like GoG). EA recently said that they're looking to fully dump physical media altogether in the future. No box stores, bigger profits, same ability to hit the same markets. PC users are willing to jump into new technology faster than most people because they're comfortable with exploring it at their leisure. The real bar of course will be the boondocks. The solution to that will be probably either eventual penetration of broadband, or in rare cases physical locations where you can get a game on flash drives dropped off for next to no price by the publisher. Or a micropress run by the publisher themselves to cover the smaller and smaller number of people not covered by actual broadband.

 

The reality is just that. PC gamers are more than happy to dump the boxes, discs(and disks, and more disks I've still got disks from 25 years ago) and everything else we've stocking up on for the last 20-30 years for something that's fast, easy and convenient. And for developers, it means more profit in gaming itself when you shift to a pure digital service as well. Especially when you gut out 3 middlemen.

 

When I worked in computer shop in the late 90's, there was 3 companies each adding between 10 and 35% markups on hardware and software before it reached us. These days, it's between 1-2 companies. And it's around 35 and 40%. Though it can be much, much more. Especially between the developer and distributor. At least ingram micro only added 35-55%, most of the time. Supercom you could easily see 1500%. Ingram was always about moving more product and taking a bit, supercom was about screwing everyone. One reason why they nearly went bankrupt back in '02.

[gregathit]

Well clearly digital sales have been at the root of the big box stores (and small ones too) not stocking them. This however is not necessarily the end of pc gaming IMHO. It is just the end of the middle men, which is all retailers are. Any more, many of the games you do purchase require hooking up to steam or origin or impulse anyway, so what really is the point of a physical disc/pretty box anymore?

 

I am not saying that I like this new direction, but like it or not it is the way technology is moving. Consoles (at least this generation) however are stuck for the most part in forcing you to own the pretty box/disc, hence they are taking up the space that PC games used to occupy. Anytime you introduce competing formats it will serve to split sales to a degree (most people usually will buy a game in only one format).

 

I don't think PC gaming will ever die as there is still a viable market for it. The key to invigorating that market and even growing it is IMHO: "mods." If mods are not available (even simple stuff like weapon damage adjustments or the like) then what incentive is there to own a 1,500 to 3,000 dollar computer when you can spend a couple of hundred on a console? Sure the graphics are usually better but is that worth the extra $1,000 plus dollars?

 

It is time that game makers face the facts. There "IS" a way to have the best of both worlds: "paid dlc" and "user made mods". "Yes", it takes a bit of planning, and "yes" it may take a bit more work but the payoff is huge.

Some clear examples:

1. Rome Total War - guys this game is OLD (Sept 22, 2004)! And yet it still has a vibrant and active modding community. And because of this the game continues to sell and for more money than pretty much any game its age.

2. Oblivion - well of course I would have to bring this game up Is there a day that doesn't go by that a new mod isn't put out on the nexus for this sucker? If Bethesda decided to, they could do a paid dlc for this game and as long as it was decent length and price....people would buy it. This game was released back in March of 2006. The GOTY version still sells for $20 US when it isn't on some kind of sale. That is pretty damn good right there!

 

There are many other games that I could mention like Quake or Doom or Mount and Blade. Mods pump life into old games extending their replay ability far beyond games that make modding difficult (if not impossible).

 

If game makers want to be lazy and behind the times then they will loose the attention of players and the industry will whither and die no different than anything else. Block Buster video is a prime example of a company that refused to embrace technology and wanted to stay as they were. Where are they now?

[Ark of Truth]

Most PC games are being sold through Steam now these days.

[Mashi]

Well I agree with most of what you said Greg, but one thing to point out. Who needs to build a 1500-3k gaming rig? Really? Consoles are holding PC gaming back, the only titles that actually push pc games are PC exclusive titles and those are very few and far between. To get Skyrim to bog my system down I had to put in every critter adding, clutter adding, high texture mod I could. In the end, the machine only ran me around $600(evga credited the store, and told them to give me a Ti DS superclocked after my 560 died right out of the box). I should get another 2 years out of it. You can build an excellent gaming rig today, right now for $300-500 especially with prices as dirt cheap as they are with a good SSD in it.

 

But Block Buster? Yeah good example, then again up here in Canadaland, we're full of companies that refuse to embrace technology unless you drag them to it. Really what killed them was redbox and netflix.

[GSBmodders]

there are a few other things you guys are missing, excluding mmo's how many pc game exclusives can you name off? now look at the consoles and you will see that the list is far larger and these are not only coming from console only developers, even Bethesda is releasing games that are console only

 

this list will grow with the next gen of consoles, have a look at the specs for the PS4 http://www.ps4playstation4.com/Expected-PS4-Specs I have no idea of what microsoft intends to do with the coming 720 but if they intend to compete then it will need to be on par with the ps4

 

Digital sales are so far continuing to keep pc gaming around but that is not likely to continue as things stand now.

[gregathit]

While it probably won't happen on the next generation consoles (who knows maybe it does) the future will likely see the fusion of pc and consoles. My only hope is that we don't have to jail break those systems to actually be able to make or use mods. Microsoft seemed to transfer all its angst about its OS straight to the crapbox system.

 

I do hear you on the PC exclusives. Not many of course. I don't see why any company would limit themselves to just one format if they can port to all of them and gain a larger market. This does not have to come at the expense of prohibiting mod making for the pc. Many companies have figured out how to do this and the rest will follow suit if they are smart. Unfortunately not many companies are that smart and many will fail. This is just the natural course of business at work.

 

The new consoles do really look sharp but I wonder what the downsides are going to be. Funny thing about my PS3 - it is still a virgin. It has never yet been connected to the internet.... I have no real interest in online console games.

[GSBmodders]

I have no real interest in online console games.

 

neither do I, the last console I owned was an atari something back in 1980 something. Unfortunately it's the future and if I live to much longer I'm likely to get stuck gaming on one.

[Mashi]

Well by the time they release the PS4 and 720 they'll already be 2-3 years behind the hardware of the PC. Which is exactly what happened for the previous generation of consoles. Those reported stats, are the previous generation or a mix of the current generation of technology that's already out. And last I heard it'll be another 1-3 years before it even hits the market. The next release for Intel is going to be a major CPU boost since we were just on a tick release, same goes for AMD.

 

So we'll also see some serious hardware coming out of the gate for GPU's as well.

[GSBmodders]

Well by the time they release the PS4 and 720 they'll already be 2-3 years behind the hardware of the PC. Which is exactly what happened for the previous generation of consoles. Those reported stats' date=' are the previous generation or a mix of the current generation of technology that's already out. And last I heard it'll be another 1-3 years before it even hits the market. The next release for Intel is going to be a major CPU boost since we were just on a tick release, same goes for AMD.

 

So we'll also see some serious hardware coming out of the gate for GPU's as well.

[/quote']

 

none of which is likely to be utilized by deverlopers, they still for the most part refuse to acknowledge that a pc has more then 2gb of ram and it seems that they are just now learning that pc's have multiple core's. I think that by 2050 they will be ready to embrace the next gen pc tech. I could be wrong but I think crysis was the last game to push pc limits. It's a bitch having 8gb of ram and knowing that the game you are playing would run so much smoother if it only used 3gb instead of 2

[Mashi]

none of which is likely to be utilized by deverlopers' date=' they still for the most part refuse to acknowledge that a pc has more then 2gb of ram and it seems that they are just now learning that pc's have multiple core's. I think that by 2050 they will be ready to embrace the next gen pc tech. I could be wrong but I think crysis was the last game to push pc limits. It's a bitch having 8gb of ram and knowing that the game you are playing would run so much smoother if it only used 3gb instead of 2

[/quote']

That's because consoles force developers into a box. Plus OS's(XP being the main culprit) have a hard limit to how much memory can be used as default(2GB or 3.2GB). As we move to 64bit OS's though, which now make up around 45% of the gaming market there's no reason. Skyrim in and of itself uses the 4GB extension switch and is enabled by default, it'll use as much physical memory as it can.

 

You'll see more games moving to 64bit executables as well. WoW is now shipping 64bit with every patch, and windows 9 will be x64 only. Which means you've got 2-3 years tops before you see the end of the 32bit world. So you might want to hold onto your current gaming rig when it reaches the end of it's life, so you can play legacy games. I have one that I play older games on that don't work right on this one, like Klingon Academy(since it can use my old midi supported force-feedback joystick).

[gregathit]

Ah....the old force feedback joysticks! Man, I had a helicopter game that I used to play with one of those that freaking rocked! Good memories of good times.....Thanks!

[Mashi]

Genius and Logitech still make them, and in USB format if you're looking for one. And they both work fairly well, the Genius ones are actually pretty good. And I can recommend Logitech stuff warranty wise, my 5.1 X-540 speakers started to develop a random crackling from the front channels seemed to be heat related--unplugging and waiting for it to cooldown(1-5mins) then plugging it back in and it would work fine again. They paid for shipping both ways and are sending me the Logitech Z506 as a replacement.

[dewguru]

... bioware ... mod tools? LOL! Those guys couldn't manage to make the game without borking it up. They never made any tools to mod things.

 

This statement couldn't be further from the truth.

 

BioWare once upon a time was one of the biggest mod supporters and they released tools to help support the community.

 

NeverWinter Nights being the most obvious example, but they also supported the original SW:KOTOR with some tools as well.

 

Oddly enough, BioWare began to get less friendly it seemed when they started to churn out their own IP's in DA and ME, leaving it up to the communities to come up with their own tools.

[gregathit]

... bioware ... mod tools? LOL! Those guys couldn't manage to make the game without borking it up. They never made any tools to mod things.

 

This statement couldn't be further from the truth.

 

BioWare once upon a time was one of the biggest mod supporters and they released tools to help support the community.

 

NeverWinter Nights being the most obvious example' date=' but they also supported the original SW:KOTOR with some tools as well.

[/quote']

 

 

Wait.......what????

 

First you say they do make tools and then you say they do not?

 

Listen, what bioware did a decade ago is NOT relevant to today. Where did I claim that they had never made any tools whatsoever? And KOTOR bioware made/supported mod tools....funny I must have missed those. See the title of the thread that you are in? Did they make any tools for ME3? Did they make a single tool for "any" of the ME series? How about you stop putting words in my mouth please.

 

 

Oddly enough' date=' bioWare began to get less friendly it seemed when they started to churn out their own IP's in DA and ME, leaving it up to the communities to come up with their own tools.

[/quote']

 

Nope. They, as you said, left it up to the community to do so. Let's keep our story straight here. No company can ride on the coat tails of what they did in the past. Gamers rightly will demand "what have you done for me lately?" While this may seem unfair, you have to remember that bioware is a business and as such they have to keep their customers satisfied or they will fail.

[Mashi]

Bioware became "EAified"(Lower your your doughnuts and beaver tails*, your development house will adapt to service us, resistance is futile. Nothing will change...nothing will change...nothing will change...) much like Bullfrog, Westwood, Maxis and so on. The development house culture changed from open to closed, that's what killed Bioware. You can see it in the game design itself. DA: Origins(open, mod support, tool support). DA: Awakenings(Hey go fuck yourselves). By the time Awakenings had been completed, the EA takeover had been completed.

 

*Beaver tails were pretty popular munchy food at the Edmonton office.

 

Speaking of which, if anyone is looking for a copy of Jade empire: SE it's on sale on steam right now for $3.74.

[LifeandEd]

Correction: Fans made the modding tools for KotOR, not Bioware. I was going to mention DA:O, but the above post got to it first.

[dewguru]

Where did I claim that they had never made any tools whatsoever?

 

I quoted your statement in my initial reply.

 

Here' date=' I'll quote your statement again.

 

... bioware ... mod tools? LOL! Those guys couldn't manage to make the game without borking it up. They never made any tools to mod things.

 

You are correct in that I was off about SW:KOTOR. Those were indeed community based.

 

I do realize this is in an ME3 thread, but my interpretation of your statement was as a much broader statement. If you were simply referencing ME, then fair enough, I agree completely.

 

 

 

Edited out a sentence were I apparently felt the need to repeat myself more or less a second time.

[gregathit]

Where did I claim that they had never made any tools whatsoever?

 

I quoted your statement in my initial reply.

 

Here' date=' I'll quote your statement again.

 

... bioware ... mod tools? LOL! Those guys couldn't manage to make the game without borking it up. They never made any tools to mod things.

 

I do realize this is in an ME3 thread, but my interpretation of your statement was as a much broader statement. If you were simply referencing ME, then fair enough, I agree completely.

 

Yes, I was at the time referring "only" to ME3 (notice the bit about them borking up "the" game - singular tense there). Not sure how you could "read" anything else into it. It wasn't like I was talking about any other game. The whole post was in regards to ME3 specifically (responding to the OP asking for mod tools for ME3). Clearly you didn't read the OP or my statement and jumped to a wild wrong conclusion.

 

I don't know how I could have possibly make it any more clear than it already was.