Scalpel vs Save Tool - Which Is Better To Use?

[C5Kev]

I've been having a run of bad luck with games lately, CTD'ing even though I'm not running a bunch of possibly conflicting mods. I'm running like 120 mods, mainly "pretty" Skyrim stuff, body / UUNP-related junk, NPC glamour mods, (3) main Devious mods, SLEN, SLA, Matchmaker and now SLK. I can't seem to even get to level 20 without at least a few CTD's. Add in using SL and that seems to compound the problems. Aggravating to be sure.

 

So, I had been using Save Tool until I discovered Scalpel, the latter seeming to fix things a little better. Unfortunately, I know just enough to get myself in trouble, especially with these tools. So, is one better than the other - or are their purposes a little different?

 

If I terminate a script(s) using Scalpel, then look at that edited file in Save Tool under "Advanced / Remove a script having invalid variables", there's usually between 200 - 400 items in there. Is this normal? And sometimes after cleaning, I can't even get back into a saved game any longer and need to restart. I just don't get it...

[Guest]

I do use "Save Game Script Cleaner", wonderful if you know what you are doing.

If you don;t, then the tool will not matter. It will be your problem.

[C5Kev]

I do use "Save Game Script Cleaner", wonderful if you know what you are doing.

If you don;t, then the tool will not matter. It will be your problem.

 

Yeah, I haven't been using it much as I stated after finding Scalpel. Is there perhaps something better to use than Scalpel?

 

[Guest]

They are pretty much all the same.

Cleaning a save game is an art.

 

[LibertyPrime]

Sorry for 'hijacking' your thread, but are there any LL-approved tutorials on how to use these tools to clean a save? I've looked up a few on YT and I've read different comments on what is and isn't safe to do...

[Guest]

Nah.

 

Sadly it depends on how good the mod was written.

 

If a mod used always a specific code for forms and scripts, then it will be quite safe to remove it using one of such tools.

But tons of mods are not respecting some good modding principles, so it is hard to remove them.

[Lodakai]

There's a reason you will come across the mantra "Mod it till it breaks" repeatedly.

 

Modding the game is never safe... modding your saves is never safe..   you will have to repeatedly break and fix your game over and over to learn what works and what does not.

For save tool.. the best thing to remember is.. if it is not broken.. do not fix it.   Don't add or remove anything during a playthrough.  Do not use a mod that you do not REALLY need/want.   WHEN your game breaks..  then use the tools to fix it.. and find out what broke it.. then decide if you want to start over and try to make it work with the thing that broke it...  or kick that thing to the curb and find some other things to break it with.     That's my experience anyway.

 

There are no "go to" tutorials.   Nobody has all the answers.. and I firmly believe that the person you are taking advice from.. is off somewhere else trying to find out how to fix something in their game that is broken as well.

 

For save tool and resaver...  (again this is my opinion)   but the standard scenarios for usage are the following.

Your game is broken.. and you really have run out of options to try to fix it...  OR

You are updating a scripted mod to a newer vesion,  you do not want to restart...   in this case, you need to disable a mod... use the save tool or resaver to remove the old (and now temporarily orphaned scripts..)   then load the updated version in the exact same spot as the prior version was.   This is the safest (but not really safe) usage of these tools.

 

NOTE:  Do not do the above to update your mods unless instructed by the mod author.

[C5Kev]

There's a reason you will come across the mantra "Mod it till it breaks" repeatedly.

 

Modding the game is never safe... modding your saves is never safe..   you will have to repeatedly break and fix your game over and over to learn what works and what does not.

For save tool.. the best thing to remember is.. if it is not broken.. do not fix it.   Don't add or remove anything during a playthrough.  Do not use a mod that you do not REALLY need/want.   WHEN your game breaks..  then use the tools to fix it.. and find out what broke it.. then decide if you want to start over and try to make it work with the thing that broke it...  or kick that thing to the curb and find some other things to break it with.     That's my experience anyway.

 

There are no "go to" tutorials.   Nobody has all the answers.. and I firmly believe that the person you are taking advice from.. is off somewhere else trying to find out how to fix something in their game that is broken as well.

 

For save tool and resaver...  (again this is my opinion)   but the standard scenarios for usage are the following.

Your game is broken.. and you really have run out of options to try to fix it...  OR

You are updating a scripted mod to a newer vesion,  you do not want to restart...   in this case, you need to disable a mod... use the save tool or resaver to remove the old (and now temporarily orphaned scripts..)   then load the updated version in the exact same spot as the prior version was.   This is the safest (but not really safe) usage of these tools.

 

NOTE:  Do not do the above to update your mods unless instructed by the mod author.

 

Yup, all good advice Lodakai.  For me, ".. and find out what broke it.." is the hard part. I try by looking at the log, but that works maybe 1/2 the time if I'm lucky?   

 

 

 

[pinky6225]

I use the save game tool as its easier to use and doesn't require a papyrus log you just need to be able to load into the save game you have added/removed stuff from and be able to make a save game so stuff will show up as orphan - from my own usage scaplel and the save game tool arent quite for the same thing as you need the papyrus log for scaplel so something needs to be broken so its more of a last resort save game fixer than a maintenance tool like the save game cleaner

[C5Kev]

I use the save game tool as its easier to use and doesn't require a papyrus log you just need to be able to load into the save game you have added/removed stuff from and be able to make a save game so stuff will show up as orphan - from my own usage scaplel and the save game tool arent quite for the same thing as you need the papyrus log for scaplel so something needs to be broken so its more of a last resort save game fixer than a maintenance tool like the save game cleaner

 

Ah, well that's good to know. Perhaps I'll go back to Save Tool and use that unless it's really busted (or something?), then go to Scalpel. Thanks for the insight.

 

[allsunday]

I got to 6,800 saves on one game with thousands of hours of gameplay on ONE character constantly using the Save Game Script Cleaner from the Nexus. I only stopped playing it because I wanted to play Requiem so I had to start over.

Had over 250 mods. No joke. Save Game Script Cleaner works fine. The names are so similar so I'll provide a link: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52363/?

[C5Kev]

I got to 6,800 saves on one game with thousands of hours of gameplay on ONE character constantly using the Save Game Script Cleaner from the Nexus. I only stopped playing it because I wanted to play Requiem so I had to start over.

Had over 250 mods. No joke. Save Game Script Cleaner works fine. The names are so similar so I'll provide a link: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52363/?

 

That's the "Save Tool" I'm talking about.

 

[allsunday]

 

I got to 6,800 saves on one game with thousands of hours of gameplay on ONE character constantly using the Save Game Script Cleaner from the Nexus. I only stopped playing it because I wanted to play Requiem so I had to start over.

Had over 250 mods. No joke. Save Game Script Cleaner works fine. The names are so similar so I'll provide a link: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52363/?

 

That's the "Save Tool" I'm talking about.

 

 

Exactly why I linked it to be sure since there are several Save Cleaners on Nexus with very similar names.  There's a good reason to be sure we are talking about the same one because I was making a case that it's legit -- as explained in my previous post, thank you very much.

[Lodakai]

Using Save tool regularly may or may not break your game... but that is the point.

It is never "SAFE" to use.   There are some mods that use non-existant form lists that you may end up deleting with save tool as part of a ritual cleaning process.

So yes, you may never see a problem with it... or it may cause issues depending on what mods you are using.

 

Making a blanket statement that it is safe to constantly clean your game is incorrect in my opinion.  This does not apply to everyone.

Having 250 mods can mean many things... are they 250 scripted mods?  Are they 250 unique items each with an individual mod?   Every load order is vastly different.

 

Your best bet is to research the forums of the mods you do use.. as well as those for the save cleaners to find out the situations best fitting to your circumstances.

 

ETA:  I should note that I am not trying to express that Save Cleaner is a bad tool to be using.   Quite the contrary, it is a powerful and useful tool both in maintaining and saving your save files from corruption.   I guess the short version of what I am trying to say is.. If you use it, be careful.. make backups.. and research your actions.