Bodies/Clothes behavior

[Mordyn]

Hello

 

Does someone know how clothes are handled by Skyrim?

 

Specifically, is there differences between Oblivion and Skyrim with the way the engine deals with clothes on body: do they have to be sized?

 

[sora3]

This one I have no idea. But from the general observations, it does seem that there is a general size and it is then stretched/custom fit to the body of the NPC.

 

Given how Bethesda did say that they simplified the armour to just a single body mesh, leg and arms (compared to Oblivion with an upper body, a lower body, a leg, a tail, a ring and an arm mesh!) does make it easier for us modders. However, it is yet to be seen if the engine has specific calls to fit that armour.

[Mordyn]

Thanks for the reply

 

Hope we'll have more information later!

 

This one I have no idea. But from the general observations' date=' it does seem that there is a general size and it is then stretched/custom fit to the body of the NPC.

[/quote']

So no more clothes sizing?

If it's true, good job Bethesda

 

Given how Bethesda did say that they simplified the armour to just a single body mesh, leg and arms (compared to Oblivion with an upper body, a lower body, a leg, a tail, a ring and an arm mesh!) does make it easier for us modders. However, it is yet to be seen if the engine has specific calls to fit that armour.

the work would be really simplified by that?

[Galacticat42]

Todd Howard did say quite a while ago that the armors will be sized by the skeleton and not by mesh like in Oblivion. So if you want to know exactly what that entails, go look at VORB and imagine that for default in Skyrim.

[Mordyn]

A kind of an enhanced VORB, then... Great

[lindazana]

A real shame they seperated torso and leg armor though...means less enchant slots, less unique looks, and will rather limit the flexibility in sexy armors made. I enjoyed the mix and match looks I had made XD.

[Mordyn]

You mean you can't have anymore things like "a bikini top with a jean", without making 1 unique piece of armor "bikini+jean"?

 

That is sad

[ReMeDy]

Awful news. Anyone who thinks this is good will be mistaken when reality smacks them in the face. Several flaws with this issue:

 

1.) This will hinder creativity and unique mix-and-matched armors. We will have several copied clothing clone "themes," such as Ambassador of Darkness, Ice Queen, Tifa, etc. We will be at the whim of the modder's creations.

 

2.) If you want your awesome upper chest plate armor to have black sexy tight Trish pants to go with it, then the mod author himself (or someone else with qualified skills) must match it for you in NifSkope (or whatever), export it, and worry about uploading it as a separate Nexus file, or email it to you if it's a personal gift. Regardless, the Nexus will be flooded with a plethora of confusing armor combinations in an attempt to "cheat" the single mesh limit.

 

3.) Speaking of the Nexus, modders will need permissions of other armor mod creators. For example, if you're the author of the person who made the Trish Pants and want to pair it up with someone else's upper armor, you'll need to get the permission of the other author. Nexus is very picky about this. In Oblivion, this permission was not necessary, because it's the PLAYER who elects to pair up the armor/s, doing so at their own private discretion.

 

4.) Multifaceted armor mods, like Cursed Armor, may not work. Cursed Armor is heavily influenced by an assortment of add-on armors, including green groping hands, wings, and pregnancy bellies. Skyrim's single mesh restrictions may compromise this!

 

Yes, this single mesh limit does make clothes easier to mod, but it also makes things worse for the user-base! This is a bad idea on so many different levels. This doesn't bode well for the future of Skyrim clothing mods.

[Jay1646]

So will i be able to make boobies the size of, let's say "AGHGEC" size???

 

 

[sora3]

Well, there are to be honest good and bad sides to this anyway. I suppose in having just one single body does limit what we can do so yeah, sucks to be the people that wanted mix and match.

 

However, I'm in the minority in which having a single mesh means less hassle, easier to manage and lessen the likelihood in having something go completely bonkers in game. Loading 600 different items compared to just 20 is a long way in terms of memory usage. I tried this in Oblivion and given 8GB memory, it crashed after I spawned 400 NPC and added them all the same armour. Add to that the various high-res mods and you're on your way to crashing the game even faster.

 

And I prefer having just a few armours compared to possibly everyone else that would want 7000 armours and only use one bit of it. Hardly any appreciation of the armour itself.

 

@ Jay1646, that might be a bit hard but possible if the skeleton does have the breast cartilage bones. Otherwise, you might need to modify these bones to allow bigger busts without having to stress the entire skeleton.

[Machina]

It's probably just using Fallout's system of grouping upper and lower body armors. Mod creators could probably still create them separately. It's too early to speak doom of the customized outfits until we get the construction set. Focus on speaking doom of the massive interface problems.

[Symon]

Sad, but no suprise. Beth have been steadily reducing the number of 'body slots' for a long time.

 

It shows they listen and then ignore (sometimes).

There was outrage when Oblivion had few slots than Morrowind.

 

Morrowind: 11 slots

Oblivion: 8 slots

 

Now there may be accessories slots like Fallout 3 when the CS is released, but that gives the ability to mix and match primarily to the modder, not the player.

[Jay1646]

 

@ Jay1646' date=' that might be a bit hard but possible if the skeleton does have the breast cartilage bones. Otherwise, you might need to modify these bones to allow bigger busts without having to stress the entire skeleton.

[/quote']

 

Then i'll patiently wait for someone to make skeleton to meet my needs

[lindazana]

So what are the chances of one of those prodigal modders out there getting pissed all to hell about this, and making a new basic skeleton/frame and seperating items into 2 slots again? it would take a long, long time, but people have done huge projects like this before.

[Jexsam]

1.) This will hinder creativity and unique mix-and-matched armors. We will have several copied clothing clone "themes' date='" such as Ambassador of Darkness, Ice Queen, Tifa, etc. We will be at the whim of the modder's creations.

 

[b']2.)[/b] If you want your awesome upper chest plate armor to have black sexy tight Trish pants to go with it, then the mod author himself (or someone else with qualified skills) must match it for you in NifSkope (or whatever), export it, and worry about uploading it as a separate Nexus file, or email it to you if it's a personal gift. Regardless, the Nexus will be flooded with a plethora of confusing armor combinations in an attempt to "cheat" the single mesh limit.

 

3.) Speaking of the Nexus, modders will need permissions of other armor mod creators. For example, if you're the author of the person who made the Trish Pants and want to pair it up with someone else's upper armor, you'll need to get the permission of the other author. Nexus is very picky about this. In Oblivion, this permission was not necessary, because it's the PLAYER who elects to pair up the armor/s, doing so at their own private discretion.

 

All three of these may be total non-issues depending on how accessible the .nifs are in NifSkope once they can be manipulated.

 

Oblivion is already awful for mix-n-match because everyone already makes their outfits considering the entire body. To mix-n-match with any degree of freedom, you basically had to use NifSkope to tear apart the pieces you want and stick them on another armor or body of your choice. Chopping up Oblivion nifs in nifskope is already child's play; if Skyrim's are anywhere close to that easy, mix-n-match could be as simple as "copy branch, paste branch".

 

Really the only halfway thought through point you made was about complex mods like Cursed Armor, and even that could be easy to overcome if there are ample customization slots available in the CK. That depends, however, wholly on the modder, even if the slots do exist.

 

tl;dr: You're really jumping the gun on this doom stuff. When we get the CK and nif tools, then we'll get an idea how clone-y it's going to be.

[Zolt]

The skeleton isn't the only thing we had to play with this time around. If you look at most of the armor meshes, you'll notice they all come in pairs labelled cuirass_0 and cuirass_1.nif for example.

 

I'm not too sure yet, but it looks like they're the "lite" and "fat" version, corresponding to the extremes of the body weight slider. They all have exactly the same vertices, just the positions differ a bit.

 

The game then somehow morphs 1 with the other, depending on the wearer's body weight setting.

 

There's potential in there, but I'm not sure yet for what...

[dianadoesitbest]

Except for the part where Todd is lying about the CK, being tweaked. Steam is causing them some legal problems.

[Mordyn]

Except for the part where Todd is lying about the CK' date=' being tweaked. Steam is causing them some legal problems.

[/quote']

What's going on?

[Jexsam]

Except for the part where Todd is lying about the CK' date=' being tweaked. Steam is causing them some legal problems.

[/quote']

 

Yes, a source would be lovely.

[Renax]

What they should have used :3

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cy1ty4nvmc

[Mordyn]

What they should have used :3

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cy1ty4nvmc

Obviously that's a framerate killer, especially for the xbox 360, the main development support

 

Especially, something like that would have been awesome :

 

With a model type of walking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=AFGWZ-dlOOY

:heart: