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[IDEA POOL] Sexual options in vanilla quests

rylasasin

By rylasasin,
in SexLab Framework

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JohnNewton

JohnNewton

Posted
Posted

I think enforcing a sexual orientation onto success/fail chance is silly. There's absolutely no reason to unless the character's dialog suggests it matters. Skyrim's treatment of marriage establishes that gender and race both are generally a non-issue, anyway, so if the idea is to respect the flavor, gender shouldn't matter very much.

I think that has more to do with Bethesda thinking it's not a productive use of paid developer time/being lazy than every character in the game being bisexual.

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Zsar

Zsar

Posted
Posted

However, mods like SexLab Romance already assign a sexual preference to NPCs. It may be used to invert the chance where appropriate, say:

 

Quest settings:

male modifies chance by factor x != 1.

 

Romance assigns bisexual:

-> set x to 1.

 

x < 1.:

 

Romance assigns homosexual && actor is male:

-> factor = 1./factor

 

Romance assigns heterosexual && actor is female:

-> factor = 1./factor

 

x > 1.:

 

Romance assigns homosexual && actor is female:

-> factor = 1./factor

 

Romance assigns heterosexual && actor is male:

-> factor = 1./factor

 

all other cases:

-> do nothing

 

More intricate modifications could be devised for cases such as "bisexual with male preference" -> factor = 1./(0.5*factor) or "bisexual with female preference" -> factor = 2./factor, or similar.

But mayhap it is indeed not very conductive to speculate about actor's orientation at this stage of design - it is more implementation detail than core functionality and would ideally be exposed to alteration by outside sources anyway.

 

Perhaps but I see it as a legitimate answer to some degree. And yes, I can be a bit of a jerk at some moments such as Arvel doing a runner and actually leaving me all these draugr to fight...

 

Fair enough and indeed I shall not complain about this particular scenario. Once another forsakes proper conduct, they deserve it neither.

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rylasasin

rylasasin

Posted
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Posted

Okay, after my original post completely fucked up on me (somehow, not quite sure how that happened) I think I've managed to fix it. I'm not sure if any entries were lost so I'll have to go through them again. 

 

Sorry about that.

 

I think enforcing a sexual orientation onto success/fail chance is silly. There's absolutely no reason to unless the character's dialog suggests it matters. Skyrim's treatment of marriage establishes that gender and race both are generally a non-issue, anyway, so if the idea is to respect the flavor, gender shouldn't matter very much.

I'm with JohnNewton on this one. The marriage system allows you to marry anyone of any gender isn't due to the fact that just about EVERYONE in skyrim is bisexual... it's more due to the fact that skyrim was rushed to reach the 11/11/11 deadline and its characters are extremely plastic (compared to say... fallout new vegas). Hell, oblivion had more definable characters than skyrim when it comes right down to it.  And the fact that they didn't want to piss off petty little boys by introducing gender preferences into the marriage system.

 

Actually, when it comes right down to it, the Marriage System is pretty clunky and contrived right from the start. I mean, according to Skyrim, marriage pretty much goes like this:

 

  1. Talk to priest and say you want to get married to someone (not any particular person, just someone), get amulet of Mara
     
  2. Walk into bar.
     
  3. Start brawl (which somehow raises disposition)
     
  4. talk to person for about 2 minutes
     
  5. propose marriage, accepted
     
  6. go to temple of Mara
     
  7. ???
     
  8. PROFIT! MARRIAGE!!
     

Or as I like to call it, "Supermarket Marriage"

 

.... yyyyeeeaaah... not exactly the kind of system I'd want to base this thing on.

Yeah I know that's kinda going off track, but for some reason the Marriage system in skyrim is just something that irks me.

 

 

Offer (Persuade); Easy difficulty

Reward: Once-daily sex option with Lucan

Consequence: Reduced reward gold

Player is male, Player is Female 

 

Demand (Intimidate): Hard difficulty

Reward: Sex + slightly increase gold payout

Consequence: No gold reward (but you can keep the claw so it's not all bad).

Same criteria

 

Now that on the other hand I can agree with. More options to go about something is almost always a plus.

 

 

However, mods like SexLab Romance already assign a sexual preference to NPCs. 

 

Hmmm Gender might need to be a global modifier then.

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Zsar

Zsar

Posted
Posted
Hmmm Gender might need to be a global modifier then.

Huh? Why? It is a flag (NPC_\ACBS) which can be retrieved by (actor.GetBaseObject() as ActorBase).GetSex(). Does that not suffice? 0 is male, 1 is female. Works on the player as per the code example.

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rylasasin

rylasasin

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  • Author
Posted

 

Hmmm Gender might need to be a global modifier then.

Huh? Why? It is a flag (NPC_\ACBS) which can be retrieved by (actor.GetBaseObject() as ActorBase).GetSex(). Does that not suffice? 0 is male, 1 is female. Works on the player as per the code example.

 

 

What I mean is 

 

"Player is Female, Player is Male" would have to be a global chance modifier based on either the NPC's orientation assigned to them by Sexlab, rather than being a static case-by-case basis.

 

Oh well, I'll keep the current forumula for now though. Since this is just an idea pool and not a mod development thread.

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Zsar

Zsar

Posted
Posted

Err... still do not get it. If global it cannot be based on a specific NPC's orientation - would be local. If static it cannot be case-by-case - be always the same.

What would be sensible is a global "does not match" modifier, coupled with a static or non-static "check compatibility" method:

const float BASE_CHANCE = 0.5;               // some arbitrary value
const float CHANCE_MODS[2] = { 0.75, 1.25 }; // not compatible vs. compatible; may add more
const unsigned int CM_INCOMPATIBLE = 0;
const unsigned int CM_COMPATIBLE   = 1;

float calcChancePerPreference(actor calculator, actor calculee) // static version
{
  <someType> preference = <someMethod>(calculator); // from whatever defines preference
                                                    // say 2-bitmask: (male, female)
                                                    
  char sex = (calculee.GetBaseObject() as ActorBase).GetSex(); // some integral type with at least [-1, 1] as possible values

  if(sex >= 0) // -1 would be "undefined"
  {
    if((preference & ++sex) > 0) // if sex == 0 (male)   then bitwise AND with sex+1 will cancel out female bit,
                                 // if sex == 1 (female) then bitwise AND with sex+1 will cancel out male   bit
                                 // if remaining bit is set, the value will still be > 0 (1 or 2 in this case)
    {
      return BASE_CHANCE * CHANCE_MOD[CM_COMPATIBLE];
    }
    else
    {
      return BASE_CHANCE * CHANCE_MOD[CM_INCOMPATIBLE];
    }
  }
  else
  {
    return BASE_CHANCE;
  }
}

float calcChancePerPreference(actor calculee) // non-static version
{
  return calcChancePerPreference(this, calculee);
}

And while I drafted this, it dawned on me that the calculator's gender does in fact not matter - so it is not considered in there.

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rylasasin

rylasasin

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Oh, by global I meant "applies to every situation" instead of "Applies to all situations equally".

 

As in "The Gay/Bi/Straight check is applied and works the same for every situation" rather than "All people are Bi/Gay/Striaght". 

 

If that helps.

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Zsar

Zsar

Posted
Posted

Ah, got it. Sorry for being thick.

 

Very much in favour of a unified approach - ideally it should not even matter if it is really the player who fulfills a quest or an NPC. Considering that NPCs can and do have quests as well, although different ones from the player. Somewhen in the future someone may open certain player quests up for NPCs, so if one is lazy someone else takes care of things... if we do our homework correctly now, the system would still work without alteration - and the player may stumble upon a plundered dungeon first and on disgruntled return a busy questgiver on top... or bottom.

Considering that NPC-to-NPC relations are a well-received feature of LoversComfort, this is probably the way to go (and so nice for maintenance).

 

... Of course this raises the question, whether it be not conductive to insert some middleware between SexLab framework and quest, to encapsulate the "translate-favour-into-sexual-favouritism" functionality. Something along the lines of "insert favours and their severity, insert quest-independent modifiers, get end-result" as a single function call.

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Ayiru

Ayiru

Posted
Posted

Very interesting idea! I'll be following this one for sure.

 

One that occurs to me would be in No One Escapes Cidhna Mine: The Dragonborn speaks to Borkul about seeing Madanach, and in addition to the other options there (getting a shiv, beating him up, bribing him with skooma and the regular persuade/intimidate checks) you can offer to have sex with him in return for access to Madanach.

 

Prerequisite: Ask a prisoner about Madanach

Success: Progression through the quest, Borkul lets you through

Failure: Get the damn shiv!

Difficulty: Easy (Borkul has been in that prison for 12 years. He'll probably be a bit frustrated!)

Modifiers:

Player is female. Player is male. Player is a female orc. Player is an elf or human. Player is a khajiit or argonian.

 

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Grimbold the unlovely

Grimbold the unlovely

Posted
Posted

JOINING DARK BROTHERHOOD

 

Astrid asks you to prove your worth by killing one of three innocents? You reply:

 

"Killing innocents is easy. Seducing a dark sister . . . now that is a challenge."

 

If you pass a chance test (roll of AI dice) she replies:

 

"You are presumptuous, Dragonborn. I like that. Show your prowess then. This dark sister is hot for you. Show me how a Dragonborn can fuck."

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Bromm83

Bromm83

Posted
Posted

As you might have seen I have started stealing ideas from this thread for SexLab Solutions. I just wanted to say awesome work! Keep the ideas coming and also include possible dialogue choices if possible, since it's hard to be creative when you have to use most of your time thinking how to sturcture things... 

Some of the ideas I have used I have simplified a little, and on other quests I had other ideas.. But all in all I plan to use at least most of the ideas that end up in this threads OP just because they are layed out and easy to use, plus it's ideas that comes straight from the users of the mods... 

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Kuroshu

Kuroshu

Posted
Posted

JOINING DARK BROTHERHOOD

 

Astrid asks you to prove your worth by killing one of three innocents? You reply:

 

"Killing innocents is easy. Seducing a dark sister . . . now that is a challenge."

 

If you pass a chance test (roll of AI dice) she replies:

 

"You are presumptuous, Dragonborn. I like that. Show your prowess then. This dark sister is hot for you. Show me how a Dragonborn can fuck."

 

If you remove that or change it in a way that won't mention the player being The dragonborn then it can work. Else it will be quite odd being called a dragonborn when you  never heard/haven't passed that quest yet.

 

If you REALLY like that line then you can add a condition that only shows it when you find out your dragonborn, Else make it "open". The most common "Name" is Adventurer and Traveller. So "You are presumptuous, Adventurer. I like that. Show your prowess then. This dark sister is hot for you. Show me how  you fuck."

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Dude500X

Dude500X

Posted
Posted

Well, I'm not too satisfied with there not being a way to save Saadia in the In My Time of Need suggestions so I am going to suggest one and perhaps someone can work on it.

 

After seeing Kematu in the cave and having him tell you his story the Dragonborn (I believe you must have done the Whiterun Dragon quest to initiate In my time of need) could confront Saadia and see what she has to say.

 

Saadia could offer sexual service for the Dragonborn's aid (its never been confirmed if she was the bad guy in this quest or not, so I won't suggest her confessing to anything Kematu has said she has done as he may be the bad guy).  The service should be something simple (that wont make alot of noise) such as a kneeling blowjob as such (any full sexual act such as missionary would make too much noise and would arouse suspicion from inside the bannered mare).

 

At this point the Dragonborn could indeed double cross Saadia and hand her over or he could attack the Alikir right before they try take possession of her (like you can in vanilla).  Her response would however be changed if Dragonborn attacked the Alikir and she would thank the Dragonborn for saving her.

 

The reward could then be casual relations with Saadia once or twice a day, or an infinite amount of times a day.

 

I really don't know how this could work with a female Dragonborn though.  Also, I think this option should be available to all male PC's regardless of Race.

 

 

PS:  Bromm.  Hint Hint ;) lol, I see you have done something similar to this already, if it could be enhanced though in the future with more depth would be even better.

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JohnNewton

JohnNewton

Posted
Posted

How is the success mod system intended to work? Should it give you a % chance of success (similar to FO3), or a minimum skill needed for automatic success (like in FO:NV and Skyrim).

I would prefer the latter.

 

As you might have seen I have started stealing ideas from this thread for SexLab Solutions.

While awesome (obviously), that might mean that all the fancy, elaborate race/class/item modifiers will remain unused, since I doubt anyone will bother creating another mod with the exact same content + the success modifier system.

There's also the whole "avoiding porn logic" goal, something I hope you will still adhere to.

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D_ManXX2

D_ManXX2

Posted
Posted

Traveling the first time to Windhelm

you see darkelf female and 2 male nord talking there could be story there, they even mention visiting her at night and thinks she is an imperial spy and have way of making her talk.

 

when this quest begins the player if male has a chance to rescu this female dark elf or join in with the nords if player is female and tries to rescue this female there is a chance she will also be a victim then you both needs to find a way escape.

 

 

 

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rylasasin

rylasasin

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Posted

How is the success mod system intended to work? Should it give you a % chance of success (similar to FO3), or a minimum skill needed for automatic success (like in FO:NV and Skyrim).

I would prefer the latter.

 

I'm not sure, I'll just leave that to whoever decides to take this idea pool and do something with it (since this is all this thread is: an idea pool for an author interested in making such a mod.)

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Kuroshu

Kuroshu

Posted
Posted

Well, I'm not too satisfied with there not being a way to save Saadia in the In My Time of Need suggestions so I am going to suggest one and perhaps someone can work on it.

 

After seeing Kematu in the cave and having him tell you his story the Dragonborn (I believe you must have done the Whiterun Dragon quest to initiate In my time of need) could confront Saadia and see what she has to say.

 

Saadia could offer sexual service for the Dragonborn's aid (its never been confirmed if she was the bad guy in this quest or not, so I won't suggest her confessing to anything Kematu has said she has done as he may be the bad guy).  The service should be something simple (that wont make alot of noise) such as a kneeling blowjob as such (any full sexual act such as missionary would make too much noise and would arouse suspicion from inside the bannered mare).

 

At this point the Dragonborn could indeed double cross Saadia and hand her over or he could attack the Alikir right before they try take possession of her (like you can in vanilla).  Her response would however be changed if Dragonborn attacked the Alikir and she would thank the Dragonborn for saving her.

 

The reward could then be casual relations with Saadia once or twice a day, or an infinite amount of times a day.

 

I really don't know how this could work with a female Dragonborn though.  Also, I think this option should be available to all male PC's regardless of Race.

 

 

PS:  Bromm.  Hint Hint ;) lol, I see you have done something similar to this already, if it could be enhanced though in the future with more depth would be even better.

 

One way to make it fit for Female PC can be to seduce Kematu and the Alikir to giving up their search or become Kematu's mistress/lover after giving Saadia to him. ie he returns after a few days. 

 

Not sure if that's too "Porn Logic".

 

Also: No you don't have to finish the "Whiterun Dragon" quest to access "In My Time of Need". The only requirement if I can remember correctly is to be a certain Lvl and up. Maybe 5 or 15.

 

Almost every quest in the game can be done with out doing the Main quest. 

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Bromm83

Bromm83

Posted
Posted

 

PS:  Bromm.  Hint Hint ;) lol, I see you have done something similar to this already, if it could be enhanced though in the future with more depth would be even better.

Yes it can, and it probably will! I try to focus on getting the quests working with an alternative first, then I can expand on that alternative!

 

How is the success mod system intended to work? Should it give you a % chance of success (similar to FO3), or a minimum skill needed for automatic success (like in FO:NV and Skyrim).

I would prefer the latter.

 

As you might have seen I have started stealing ideas from this thread for SexLab Solutions.

While awesome (obviously), that might mean that all the fancy, elaborate race/class/item modifiers will remain unused, since I doubt anyone will bother creating another mod with the exact same content + the success modifier system.

There's also the whole "avoiding porn logic" goal, something I hope you will still adhere to.

I am trying to avoid porn logic, but there will probably stay some of it in. That's why a community like loverslab is so great. Then you all can play through it and tell me what I could change to make it less porn logic! And hopefully give me some ideas to good dialog and quests.

When it comes down to the elaborate race/class/item modifiers I have not added them yet, and I will not promise that I will either, but my plan is to add them in the future. The reason why it is not done yet? It's a shitload of work adding different dialogue and different checks for every race, sex and items. Especially if you have several different ways out of the quest (like if you could choose what kind of sex you want). For me to use the time to make that work I will need to work with someone that can help me add lore friendly lines. Or I could set up a forum thread where people can suggest dialog for each quest.. The part that takes the longest isn't typing the lines or making the conditions. It's coming up with a line that's not too blunt, too disgusting, too fallout or too boring. And yes, they are often still too boring and sometimes a bit disgusting... 

 

So if someone would like to set up suggestions for dialog I can use, please organize it somehting like this:

topic1:

- What about some alternative payment? 

    - That sounds interesting, what did you have in mind? (conditions:  player "sex" AND player "race" OR player "race") (Link: topic2 and topic3)

    - Sorry I just take cash (Link original topic)

topic2:

- I could give you a blowjob

   - [pulls out his dick] Well just get to work then! (conditions: speech >= 20) (result: Complete)

   - Nah, that won't do it for me. (conditions: speech < 20) (link topic4 and original topic)

topic3:

- "Some referance to anal sex"

   - "some reference to yes" (conditions: PlayerGetItemCount RandomItem == 1)

topic4:

- What would you accept then? 

   - "random thing he would accept" (link: topic5 and topic6)

   - "more random he would accept" (link: topic5 and topic6)

topic5:

- Player agrees to demand

  - "comment from subject" (result: complete)

topic6:

- player disagrees

  - "comment from subject" (link: original topic)

 

Something to remember: 

- What subject (the NPC) would agree to does not have to be sex. 

- If you want the NPC to remember a choice you made for later I will need a comment on it and a description on what you want to be done with it. The NPC could have a greeting added where he refers to the blowjob, or he could start demanding it whenever you talk to him in the future, or once a day, or maybe just once more. 

- If you want the NPC to get the player to have sex with someone else it has to be a named player! This is also true for threesomes!

- The more time you put into making the dialogue and the more options there are in it, the better and more lore friendly it will feel. But there is a limit. If a player is met with endless dialog topics it will just be a boring conversation with some pixel porn in the end. Keep it simple.

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