[QUESTION] Can i make torch mesh NOT to cast shadow?

[Roggvir]

I want to have a torch with light that does cast shadows, but i want the torch itself to be excluded from all that shadow casting - i dont want that stupid wooden stick to cast any shadows.

I made a very precise technical diagram to illustrate what i mean:

 

 

I thought i can achieve that by removing the "Cast_Shadows" shader flag from BSLightingShaderProperty of the mesh, but the shadow is still there.

While searching, i stumbled upon several threads and questions about meshes or armor NOT casting shadows while they want it to cast shadows, but none of it provided any useful information i could apply to solve my problem.

Can it be done?

[RomeoZero]

Not the stick casting it, probably that is billboard mesh (refraction alpha blend) or the similar. Same shitty fx that eyes nif has on eyeball.You will need to find all the torch candles (extract from BSA) and adjust it in Nifskope. I'd just ignore it, waste of time.

[Roggvir]

1 hour ago, RomeoZero said:

Not the stick casting it, probably that is billboard mesh (refraction alpha blend) or the similar. Same shitty fx that eyes nif has on eyeball.You will need to find all the torch candles (extract from BSA) and adjust it in Nifskope. I'd just ignore it, waste of time.

I asure you it is the stick casting it - if i edit the mesh and remove the stick, the shadow changes accordingly.

 

I dont need to adjust ALL of the torch NIFs, i need only one (besides, from what i seen, there are only about 3 or 5 torch meshes at most - but thats besides the point, i only need to alter one - the one that i use as my placed torch).

And as i described, i tried to remove the "Cast_Shadows" flag from the mesh, but aparently that isn't it, or not enough - so, lets forget the "not worth it" and please describe, what do i have to do?

 

[RomeoZero]

3 hours ago, Roggvir said:

if i edit the mesh and remove the stick, the shadow changes accordingly

i tried to remove the "Cast_Shadows" flag from the mesh, but apparently that isn't it

 "Receive shadows" and "Cast_Shadows" flags are the only command for the code in Flags1 to render shadows from light sources.There are couple of Torches with omnidirectional shadow cast. If your deleting shape node form its generic node, you kinda delete all the data stored with it,logical.

What nif file ( and file path) are you tweaking ? Search billboard mesh (refraction alpha blend)  in removabletorch nif or sconce nif  [Clutter], don't remember on whom of them had a BSshader shadows flag. 

[Roggvir]

8 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

"Receive shadows" and "Cast_Shadows" flags are the only command for the code in Flags1 to render shadows from light sources.

So, if i understand this correctly, you are essentially saying that if i remove those flags and it has no effect, it means there is no way to achieve what i want?

 

8 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

There are couple of Torches with omnidirectional shadow cast.

I dont understand what this has to do with my mesh?

Why should i care about some other NIFs used by some other static/activator/movablestatic objects i am not using at all?

 

8 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

If your deleting shape node form its generic node, you kinda delete all the data stored with it,logical.

Yep, that was the point, to delete that part of the mesh and see how that affect the shadow - it did - i think that was to be expected, but i dont understand why do you mention this?

I needed to make sure that the stick was really what is casting the shadow, and this was the simplest way to (dis)proove it, and it turned out to proove that indeed it is the stick casting the shadow.

What am i not getting?

 

8 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

What nif file ( and file path) are you tweaking ?

I am tweaking "meshes\rogg\removabletorch01.nif", which was originally "meshes\clutter\common\removabletorch01.nif".

 

I apologize for not getting what you are tryignto tell me, and i thank you for your patience.

I have very little experience with NIFs, so i guess there is plenty i dont understand and i may need the information to be explained in more details - i think you are assuming i know what you are talking about, but i dont think i do.

Would you please try to describe it again like you would to a child?

 

[Roggvir]

8 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

Search billboard mesh (refraction alpha blend)  in removabletorch nif or sconce nif  [Clutter], don't remember on whom of them had a BSshader shadows flag.

Wait... are you saying that the shadow is a billboard???

If that is the case, then how the hell would that be affected by me removing the stick part of the mesh???

Then again, i dont know much about how NIFs work, so anything is possible i guess.

 

 

Well, i think you are mistaken.

Before i finished this post, i decided to quickly try, removed the billboards from the NIF and the shadow is still there, still the same - only the glow is gone because that is apparently what the billboard was for.

 

EDIT:

Here is the NIF (don't get confused by the "_noshadow" suffix, that is unfortunately not true, yet?)
removabletorch01_noshadow.nif

If you open it in NifSkope, you can see there are no billboards.

Yet if you place the object in game somewhere with a shadow casting light, you will see it is indeed casting a shadow (even though i did remove the "Cast_Shadows" flag, and any billboards)

 

EDIT2: I think i forgot to mention this is for SSE, so ...in case you would actually try to test it in game, i dont know what will happen if you try in Oldrim.

[Roggvir]

Would it be possible that this has more to do with the LIGHT than with the object itself?

As in: maybe the light i am using is ignoring the absence of the "Cast_Shadows" flag on that torch, and makes all objects cast shadows no matter what (of course, only objects with some visible geometry).

The light i am using is DefaultTorch01_Fast [LIGH:00036464].

I imagine i could try other lights, but i'd rather know if this is possible before i start testing all shadowcasting lights in the game, looking for some difference.

[RomeoZero]

21 hours ago, Roggvir said:

EDIT2: I think i forgot to mention this is for SSE, so ...in case you would actually try to test it in game, i dont know what will happen if you try in Oldrim.

Yeah that makes sense with "meshes\rogg\removabletorch01.nif" cause there is no such folder for Skyrim LE, and the post is in Skyrim vanilla section.SSE thread is in the bottom. I do not own it but maybe I will help with information anyway.

That folder [rogg] also can be part of the mod,that is using  dependency nif files. So your need to track them in CK if its really a part of a esp.
Anyway, in clutter\common there are many files and maybe this file is also exist in SSE version "torchsconce01.nif" ?  That is a reference object for game engine, torch sconce for walls,  it has a "heatrefraction" round billboard with a flag "cast_shadows".So this Nif can be the culprit of your troubles judging by your SS

here's a pic

 

Spoiler

  

 

 

[Roggvir]

1 hour ago, RomeoZero said:

Yeah that makes sense with "meshes\rogg\removabletorch01.nif" cause there is no such folder for Skyrim LE

I created that folder. That is my NIF - i made copy of the original (as i mentioned in one of my previous posts) so i can edit it as i need to.

 

1 hour ago, RomeoZero said:

the post is in Skyrim vanilla section

Well of course! where else would you want me to post it? into Fallout 4 section?

The SSE section does not have a forum for requests or questions like this.
 

1 hour ago, RomeoZero said:

So this Nif can be the culprit of your troubles judging by your SS

No, it cannot be the culprit, because i am not using some other NIF, i am using my own NIF, and i already told you that billboard has nothing to do with the shadow.

 

Honest question: do you even have the slightest clue about any of this?

Maybe you are trying to help, but nothing you are saying makes any sense in given context.

[RomeoZero]

3 hours ago, Roggvir said:

I created that folder. That is my NIF - i made copy of the original (as i mentioned in one of my previous posts) so i can edit it as i need to.

 

Well of course! where else would you want me to post it? into Fallout 4 section?

The SSE section does not have a forum for requests or questions like this.
 

No, it cannot be the culprit, because i am not using some other NIF, i am using my own NIF, and i already told you that billboard has nothing to do with the shadow.

 

Honest question: do you even have the slightest clue about any of this?

Maybe you are trying to help, but nothing you are saying makes any sense in given context.

Hmm. I do. As I created many stuff from animations to shaders in Nifskope. The problem is that you cant describe properly a problem in your post.Even picture you provided is telling its "environment reference".  First its not LE, then it turns out it is a NIF that you made. Despite that, that IS a "technical" issue you got, it goes to SSE technical support thread.And honestly,if you are creating something that you don't quite understand how it works is not the best idea to make it then.Maybe to read more info on NifTools or GitHub and ask Jonwd7 on discord about specifics on BethesdaShaderProperty ? There are few people who can answer to you here but I doubt that will help you solve this shader issue.

[Roggvir]

7 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

The problem is that you cant describe properly a problem in your post

Ok, lets try again:

I have a torch mesh that casts shadows, but i dont want it cast shadows.

 

7 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

Even picture you provided is telling its "environment reference".

This sentence makes no sense. What do you mean by "environment reference".

What do you not understand about that picture?

 

7 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

First its not LE

Yeah, i should have mention it in the beginning, but eventually i did anyway and look! it didn't help at all - you are still as clueless as you were before!

 

7 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

then it turns out it is a NIF that you made

Do you even reading anything i write?

It is a copy of the original vanilla "meshes\clutter\common\removabletorch01.nif", which i had to make to be able to alter it in order to attempt to get rid of that shadow by removing the "Casts_Shadows" flag from the stick shape.

If you didn't get this simple and fairly obvious piece of information, then the fault is with you, you need to pay more attention.

 

7 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

Despite that, that IS a "technical" issue you got, it goes to SSE technical support thread

Well, guess what, you are wrong about that too.

Technical support thread is supposed to be about issues with the game - things like game not starting, crashes, HW or controller support, those kind of things are a "technical issue".

This is about modding, not a "technical issue" - if you cannot see the difference... well, it actually explains everything ?

 

7 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

if you are creating something that you don't quite understand how it works is not the best idea to make it then

Are you completely insane? Have you ever heard about something called "research" - not understanding something, is the most fundamental prerequisite for learning and advancing in every field there is.

 

I have no problem admitting i dont fully understand something, trying to learn more, while you apparently seem to believe you understand it fully, or at the very least more than i do - but you are delusional, this little conversation here is all the proof you need to see that even i understand more about this than you do (and i am not here to measure dicks, i dont give a shit, i actually like meeting ppl who are smarter or more knowledgable than me, because it is an opportunity to learn, or at the very least it is a refreshing opportunity to enjoy company of somebody smart).

 

7 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

Maybe to read more info on NifTools or GitHub and ask Jonwd7 on discord about specifics on BethesdaShaderProperty

Well, i have plenty on my plate already, i dont have time to read every specification, i read what i can, but there is a limit - the day has only 24 hours, so i need to take shortcuts in order to be able to do anything at all, and that is when i ask questions in a forum like this, hoping i get an answer from someone who understands it more than i do.

And i am not going to bother Jonwd7 with this, until i first try here and then try to read a bit more if this here wont help (but then it wouldn't be worth the time i spent on it, i have more pressing issues to deal with, so this is really my only attempt to find the solution).

 

7 hours ago, RomeoZero said:

There are few people who can answer to you here but I doubt that will help you solve this shader issue.

Great! Let's see if those ppl care enough to answer, because that is really all i need - a real answer addressing the problem i am trying to solve

 - whether a solution exists or not, a usefull answer is really the only thing i need ("usefull" in this context means either "nope, it cannot be done", or "yes, you need to do this and that").

So, i am gonna stop our silly time wasting debate right now, and lets hope somebody will chip in with some "usefull answer" (hell, even though you dont believe it possible, maybe you can learn something from them too!).

 

[yatol]

16 hours ago, Roggvir said:

Great! Let's see if those ppl care enough to answer, because that is really all i need - a real answer addressing the problem i am trying to solve

On 4/21/2019 at 5:00 PM, Roggvir said:

 

 

 

 

 

does the shadow inside red really look like that torch shadow to someone?

 

 

[Roggvir]

53 minutes ago, yatol said:

does the shadow inside red really look like that torch shadow to someone?

The light is positioned slightly in front of, and above the torch - roughly where i draw the yellow lightbulb - which results in this shadow.

So, i would really appreciate, if we all could already stop debating whether the shadow is a shadow and whether it is cast by the stick - IT IS.