​ ? FASHION POLICE ​ ? discussion thread : Updated 2020-07-19 Eco Lifestyle mini-update

[angiebaby23]

I believe we posted at the exact same time.  Trippy!  ?

[2cool4u_1]

22 minutes ago, angiebaby23 said:

I finished my first sim.  I'll send her to you via PM.  She's a bit of a "trial run" so to speak. 

 

Since I'm using all Maxis Match CC, does the above mean that I can also mix the CC outfits with maxis clothing?  For example, an all CC outfit with maxis socks or stockings or hats and gloves and the like.  It seems a bit silly to download socks, and there are some (very few) Maxis pieces that I actually like. 

Yes, the outfits don't need to be entirely CC. For people who want fully alpha NPCs, then obviously yes; otherwise just use the CC to make more outfit variations, containing as little or as much CC as you want. The advantage of MM CC is that it will go seamlessly with the official Maxis content. So every outfit adds on to what is already available. People who want pure alpha on the other hand, would need hundreds of outfits.

[erplederp]

@angiebaby23 I know this is maybe only a personal preference, but I consider MAXIS-match CC vastly more usable for exactly the reasons 2cool4u_1 outlines. And it is not always about the transparency. It makes me a little bit sad when I download a perfect piece of CC, say a swimsuit, and then find out it is a separate mesh "hovering" around the body - very much unlike the way MAXIS clothes are made (by deforming or replacing the body mesh or what-not). So even though the CC in question may be beautifully designed and obviously very time-consuming to make, it is so difficult to effectively use without looking out-of-place in the game or when compared to other outfits the sim has.

[angiebaby23]

20 hours ago, erplederp said:

@angiebaby23 I know this is maybe only a personal preference, but I consider MAXIS-match CC vastly more usable for exactly the reasons 2cool4u_1 outlines. And it is not always about the transparency. It makes me a little bit sad when I download a perfect piece of CC, say a swimsuit, and then find out it is a separate mesh "hovering" around the body - very much unlike the way MAXIS clothes are made (by deforming or replacing the body mesh or what-not). So even though the CC in question may be beautifully designed and obviously very time-consuming to make, it is so difficult to effectively use without looking out-of-place in the game or when compared to other outfits the sim has.

@erplederp The thing is, I can look at a CC hair and know immediately if it's MM or alpha.  I just "see" it.  With clothing, not so much.  I am in no way a creator, so meshes and such are as foreign to me as Greek.  Is there any way for one to check a piece of CC, say with S4S, and find out for sure if it's alpha or MM, or is it just a "see it and know it" thing?  Like is there an option in S4S or a category you can check or something?

 

Sorry for the no doubt ridiculous question. 

[2cool4u_1]

4 hours ago, angiebaby23 said:

@erplederp The thing is, I can look at a CC hair and know immediately if it's MM or alpha.  I just "see" it.  With clothing, not so much.  I am in no way a creator, so meshes and such are as foreign to me as Greek.  Is there any way for one to check a piece of CC, say with S4S, and find out for sure if it's alpha or MM, or is it just a "see it and know it" thing?  Like is there an option in S4S or a category you can check or something?

 

Sorry for the no doubt ridiculous question. 

It's a "see it and know" thing like hair. Unfortunately, there's no "black and white", "yes or no" line to look at and see which category it falls under. Hairs seem to be much more distinctly one or the other, while clothing is more of a scale, and usually lies somewhere in between (yet closer to one or the other). My rule of thumb; look at it and ask if it could be part of an official Maxis set, or is the texture, shading, etc. designed to make it look more "realistic". There is no checkbox to make it easier.

 

It may seem like a ridiculous question to you, but it's not. @erplederp and I were discussing something similar with colors. In Sims 3 you could recolor any game item by picking a color on the color-wheel. The game would then automatically identify what color it is a shade of. Sims 4 just uses static tags (the actual color is irrelevant --a black item can be labelled "Pink"). Having a "Maxis-match" or "Alpha" CC tag to identify various CC as one or the other would be useful.

 

BTW, the only ridiculous questions are the ones you don't ask. What good is a question that is never asked, and never answered?

[angiebaby23]

1 hour ago, 2cool4u_1 said:

It's a "see it and know" thing like hair. Unfortunately, there's no "black and white", "yes or no" line to look at and see which category it falls under. Hairs seem to be much more distinctly one or the other, while clothing is more of a scale, and usually lies somewhere in between (yet closer to one or the other). My rule of thumb; look at it and ask if it could be part of an official Maxis set, or is the texture, shading, etc. designed to make it look more "realistic". There is no checkbox to make it easier.

 

It may seem like a ridiculous question to you, but it's not. @erplederp and I were discussing something similar with colors. In Sims 3 you could recolor any game item by picking a color on the color-wheel. The game would then automatically identify what color it is a shade of. Sims 4 just uses static tags (the actual color is irrelevant --a black item can be labelled "Pink"). Having a "Maxis-match" or "Alpha" CC tag to identify various CC as one or the other would be useful.

 

BTW, the only ridiculous questions are the ones you don't ask. What good is a question that is never asked, and never answered?

That is a shame!  And yes a tag to identify if it's one or the other would be VERY useful.  It is quite a bit easier for me for sure to tell the hairs apart.  I just have a terrifically hard time with the clothing, for whatever reason.  And I miss the Sims 3 color wheel and pattern picker SO MUCH!  That was lovely.

 

Yes, my mother used to say something similar - "the only stupid question is the one which goes unasked."  Shame I seem to have temporarily forgotten that, haha.  Thank you for the answer.

[erplederp]

@angiebaby23 Not at all a ridiculous question! ?

 

I agree with 2cool4u_1's points above including the very good rule of thumb:

Does this look like it could be made by MAXIS? Does it look similar in style to other MAXIS clothes?

 

Here are a few tell-tale signs of the MAXIS style as I see it.

 

1. Simplicity

Most of the MAXIS clothes are simpler when it comes to their design and especially shape. The necessary details such as buttons, clasps, belts, laces, straps, zippers are often just painted on and not modeled in 3D (or just slightly elevated). MM painted-on laces, eyelets and bow left, non-MM 3D laces and eyelets right:

 

 

2. Color palette

The whole game uses mostly subdued, pastel colors and even blacks are not too dark and whites are not too bright (MM white actually has a blue-gray tint). CC items with all swatches either extremely bright or very saturated don't play well with the rest. Furthermore, colors too bright tend to also drown out the texture of the clothes (if there was any). MM colors left, non-MM overblown colors right.

 

 

3. Shading

Adding detailed creases, folds, edges and shadowed areas (which bring out the shape) to the fabric by painting a shadow on it (instead of using a complicated model or 3D engine magic). This is actually something I feel MAXIS fairly well and few CC can actually match it. A proper detailed shading on the left, somewhat lacking shading on the right (especially in the chest area and the flat looking "belts"), possibly just by overblown white. The CC on the right also uses a more complicated model to add a little too detailed and sharp creases on the bottom.

 

 

4. Shadowcasting

A subtle shadow on the skin where the clothes end. This may be a pet peeve of mine (as it is more of a quality thing) and is registered almost subconsciously. The absence of such shadow makes the transition between the clothes and skin (or other layer of clothes) very jarring, even more so if the clothes are skin-tight (then the fabric looks like only painted on the skin). Shadowcasting below sleeves and on the chest left, no shadowcasting right (although the shirt is actually otherwise very MAXIS matchy in my eyes).

 

 

5. Design of skin-tight clothes

This one really bothers me. MM skin-tight clothes are just that - skin-tight. To the level of being literally painted on the skin. There's no gap between the fabric and the skin (and the fabric is often not elevated in any way). The transition between the fabric and the skin is shadowed. MM skin-tight on the left, non-MM skin-tight on the right (although I love the design). See the visible gap between breasts and the cup/strap?

 

 

6. Hem/rim

MM clothes usually have well defined and visible hems, using a darker edge and a visible thread alonside it. They don't just end as if by cut off by a laser. This is yet another pet peeve of mine. Left: Hems everywhere once you zoom in. Right: Hems nowhere, not even a darker outline (also a little too complicated/creased and "hovering" model).

 

 

I can overlook a violation of one or two of these, but the more there are the farther the item moves away from the game's style (and is thus harder to use in outfits).

 

Sorry for the rant. Some of these are obviously just a personal preference and I may be a little unfair in the examples to illustrate the point.

 

[2cool4u_1]

?? There is a brand new Outfit Filter, based on Pack selection, made by @erplederp. Be sure to tag @erplederp with any "Thank you" posts.

[angiebaby23]

Thank you so much, @erplederp! And thank you also very much for taking the time to explain to me in such detail how to tell the difference between alpha and MM.  I think I will download your pictures and zoom in and study them thoroughly.     I will get the hang of this!

[erplederp]

23 hours ago, angiebaby23 said:

Thank you so much, @erplederp! And thank you also very much for taking the time to explain to me in such detail how to tell the difference between alpha and MM.  I think I will download your pictures and zoom in and study them thoroughly.     I will get the hang of this!

No problem at all - I like talking about this stuff. I had to sort out the reason why I feel some CC matches and some not in my head first too. ? You're right that some of my nit-picks are only visible when up-close (and I have no doubt you'll get the hang of it in no time!).

 

When I look at the non-MM examples now, the thing that probably pops out most to me really is the level of detail in the 3D models themselves. It is simply too high with the tiny little things like straps or eyelets completely 3D instead of just painted, fabric separately modelled from the body and too "aggressive" creasing instead of depending on the shading. This ironically makes these CC clothes not fit with the simpler, smooth MAXIS models in my eyes.

 

I actually realised another minor point.

 

7. Transparency

MAXIS uses transparent materials very rarely and when they do, it tends to be painted directly on the skin again (maybe slightly elevated) - there's no actual gap between the clothes and the skin. Left: MM transparency, painted on a simple model. Right: Non-MM transparency - there's an extra (admittedly narrow) gap above the shoulders. The gaps around the body and upper arms do not bother me though, they look more natural because they are supposed to be wide like this. That being said, I think the design is beautiful and very usable anyway. ?

 

 

After all these examples of what I consider not a MAXIS-match CC, it could be helpful if I mentioned a few talented CC creators who shared a lot of high quality MM clothes:

 

Trillyke - if you decide to check out only one creator, it should be Trillyke, completely mastered the style (with a little bit of their own flair), including the shading

ekinege - a giant selection of amazing stylish dresses, elaborate or simple, long or short (but not only dresses)

Metens - dresses, sweaters, sporty clothes, swimwear and other clothes with a little more serious spin

nueajaa - the cutest stuff in pastel colors (diabetes warning ?)

SimLaughLove - a smaller collection of hairstyles, clothes, shoes and accessories on the cuter side, the style is literally indistinguishable from the MAXIS stuff

simplesimmer - again a smaller selection of simpler, yet pretty clothes (and a lot of hairstyles too), again indistinguishable from the MAXIS stuff

Margeh-75 - all kinds of tops, knitted stuff, sweaters, dresses, sporty clothes, denim shorts and more with a little of their own style

dgandy - a huge selection of clothes including dresses, sexy swimwear, denim bottoms,... a recognizable style with a pastel preference

RenoraSims - a small-ish selection of 100% MM stuff

 

Honorable mentions: MyStuff, Harmonia, LeoSims

 

These are my favourite creators (and the selection is pretty subjective) - they have mostly clothes for female sims with a little cutesy spin.

[mrrakkonn]

On 6/29/2019 at 1:51 AM, 2cool4u_1 said:

This project is 0% for me, though I am enjoying using it. If anyone wants a CC version I'll work on it. Maxis-match CC outfits can be used as an add-on to official Maxis clothing. Alpha CC outfits could if you wanted to; otherwise there'd have to be a significant number of outfits for a purely alpha CC world.

 

If you want to submit outfits;

Dress sims in CAS and send them to me along with the CC you used (you can post it or PM me). You don't need to worry about hair, makeup, tattoos, or anything else, just the clothing and accessories. Standalone recolors are great, but avoid recolors that override the original items if possible. You MUST accept credit for any submissions you make

I suggest using "Tray Importer" to "Export with CC".

 

Once you send them, I'll do all the work of filtering out just the outfit CC, and adding it to the list (currently non-existent).

 

I've put together quite a few outfits for my sims over time (I typically do 5 everyday, 5 hot weather, and at least 2 sleepwear, both pajamas and underwear, and then 1 in every other category), don't know what you personally think of those, but there's quite alot of them by now. If you're keen on using some of them, it's all in the downloads. Though those include all other pieces of CC as well, and you might be interested in having a pared down pack with just the clothes maybe? 

So yeah, feel free to grab those or tell me if you want me to send you a pack with just the outfits for some of them.  

 

Anyway this is a cool project and I'd definitely be using it whenever I get down to playing the game normally again. 

[2cool4u_1]

@mrrakkonn I have almost all your sims (I think I'm missing 2 and need to re-download them). I think your sims are very well dressed. I'm not going to go and grab outfits from every sim available for download, so I wait until someone offers (or suggests someone else's with their permission). Thank you for offering. I'll definitely add it to my list (and hopefully add them sometime this month or next). Most of the CC is not Maxis-match, so it'll go in a second CC add-on file. If some outfits are close, I may replace an item or two to make them MM. I know you have a CC-free version of Thalia, which ironically is one of the sims I need to re-download. Thanks again.

[2cool4u_1]

21 hours ago, erplederp said:

After all these examples of what I consider not a MAXIS-match CC, it could be helpful if I mentioned a few talented CC creators who shared a lot of high quality MM clothes:

 

Another creator I like, off the top of my head ; Nolan-Sims

Be sure to check the "Old CC Archive" as well.

[mrrakkonn]

One of my favorites used to be AllAboutStyle, reasonably maxis match, mostly athletic and sleepwear type stuff. Far as I can tell they've stopped and the site is gone though. I downloaded alot of their CC before that happened though, and I've used many for my sims. If you're interested I could package all the CC I have by them and upload it here, shouldn't be too large, since it's only clothign and not like super detailed alpha hairs and such. 

[erplederp]

@2cool4u_1 I think I have (or had) a few pieces by NolanSims. Very MAXIS-matchy and right up my alley! Will definitely check the archive! ?

@mrrakkonn I've found a a lot of AllAboutStyle stuff archived here - in a subfolder (thanks for the offer to upload though ?) :

https://simfileshare.net/folder/39788/

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cz2go73ai2ly2va/AAB5a0etH-xHJfYzLOh4cEkIa?dl=0

 

Thanks for the tips, guys!

 

[mrrakkonn]

@erplederp Alright! Thanks for that link, that's lots more than I ever downloaded in any case  

[2cool4u_1]

13 minutes ago, erplederp said:

@mrrakkonn I've found a a lot of AllAboutStyle stuff archived here - in a subfolder (thanks for the offer to upload though ?) :

https://simfileshare.net/folder/39788/

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cz2go73ai2ly2va/AAB5a0etH-xHJfYzLOh4cEkIa?dl=0

That's a lot indeed.

 

37 minutes ago, mrrakkonn said:

One of my favorites used to be AllAboutStyle, reasonably maxis match, mostly athletic and sleepwear type stuff. Far as I can tell they've stopped and the site is gone though.

I found this link;

https://web.archive.org/web/20171129014416/http://all-about-style.com/sims4.html

 

[angiebaby23]

On 7/3/2019 at 2:34 PM, erplederp said:

No problem at all - I like talking about this stuff. I had to sort out the reason why I feel some CC matches and some not in my head first too. ? You're right that some of my nit-picks are only visible when up-close (and I have no doubt you'll get the hang of it in no time!).

 

Thank you again so much for the additional tips and also the list of creators.  I actually already knew of a few, I LOVE Trillyke's stuff so, so much!  But there were far more on the list that I hadn't known about, so thank you for the heads up.  I've been on a downloading binge lol.

[erplederp]

Found one more interesting creator - https://aveirasims.tumblr.com/downloads

She has a smaller selection of MM clothing (mostly pastel recolors) and a ton of (alpha) hairstyle recolors. Most of the hairstyles are the usual longer affairs but these two really caught my eyes:

 

 

[2cool4u_1]

@erplederp, Do you have any advice or links for MM jewellery? It's come up via PM.

[erplederp]

@2cool4u_1 I don't know any MM-focused creators making a lot of jewelry. RenoraSims, AveiraSims, SimpleSimmer, SimLaughLove, crazycupcake (all on tumblr) have a few truly MM pieces here and there.

 

That being said, I like to use some of the jewelry made by:

NataliS

Pralinesims

toksik

S-Club

Jomsims

magnolia-c

 

They all have tons available, although a lot of the jewelry is really elaborate and almost too fancy even for formal outfits (also the necklaces are usually "floaty"). If you go for MM, you'd need to use mostly the simpler pieces. Hope that helps. ?

[2cool4u_1]

Thanks, it's much appreciated. I rarely ever come across MM jewellery (at least that I can remember), and was not in a position to give an answer. I really should have asked everybody / anybody, but it seems like you're the resident expert here.?

[angiebaby23]

9 hours ago, erplederp said:

@2cool4u_1 I don't know any MM-focused creators making a lot of jewelry. RenoraSims, AveiraSims, SimpleSimmer, SimLaughLove, crazycupcake (all on tumblr) have a few truly MM pieces here and there.

 

That being said, I like to use some of the jewelry made by:

NataliS

Pralinesims

toksik

S-Club

Jomsims

magnolia-c

 

They all have tons available, although a lot of the jewelry is really elaborate and almost too fancy even for formal outfits (also the necklaces are usually "floaty"). If you go for MM, you'd need to use mostly the simpler pieces. Hope that helps. ?

Thanks for those creators @erplederp I use a ton of NataliS, Pralinesims and S-Club myself, and I did for Sims 3 too.  It's just like you say most of the pieces are really elaborate and don't seem very MM to me.  Would it be okay if I posted some pics here of the pieces I've found by those creators that might be MM enough and get your opinion?  I'm still working on trusting my own opinion in these matters. 

 

Edit:  Here are 2 current favorite earrings by Leeleesims1 and Renorasims described as MM:

 

 

[erplederp]

2 hours ago, angiebaby23 said:

Would it be okay if I posted some pics here of the pieces I've found by those creators that might be MM enough and get your opinion?

Sure! Note that it would still be only an opinion though. ? The two examples you posted are indeed very MM.

[angiebaby23]

17 hours ago, erplederp said:

Sure! Note that it would still be only an opinion though. ? The two examples you posted are indeed very MM.

Thank you again for your help!  An opinion is all I'm asking, since yours seems very knowledgeable. ?

 

I have some earrings first, these ones in my collection seem the most MM to me.

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