Differences Fallout 4 Physics and Skyrim Physics

[Karna5]

I felt kind of guilty hijacking so much of the "Caliente Announced" thread to discuss physics, even though the physics is part of the CBBE. But I'd like to mention something I see is currently a significant (though not necessarily bad) difference between Skyrim Physics and Fallout 4 physics.

 

In Skyrim the physics are tied to the skeleton and animations, so you can have several layers of clothing with physics, and they move together.

 

In Fallout 4, the physics are tied to the clothing, and the clothing and the natural body (the body not part of the clothing) do not necessarily move together. If you build a body with physics (one NIF) and put over it clothing with physics, they don't move together and look like they clip in game. Thus for Fallout 4 one should make the body and the physics one item and use the ESP to hide the non-outfit body by using slot 33 for the outfit.

 

What this means is Fallout 4 mod authors who want to add physics need to make full outfits, at least for the torso, which completely hide the non-outfit body using the ESP.

 

This said, you can put layers which don't touch the breasts fine. For instance, Ashara's Steampunk outfit has the skirt as its own piece of clothing. That's actually a good thing because it means you can put the breast physics on the main outfit and have the skirt over it in-game without clobbering the breast physics.

 

However, some of Ashara's add-on pieces like the harness or jacket do not have references, and thus they make creating a full physics outfit much more difficult.

 

Ideally, then, one would create everything with breast physics as one piece, and then can have any non-breast extras (arms, skirt, legs, panties, neck, etc.) optionally separate.

 

What this also means is that physics in Fallout 4 is technically easier to install for the end user than in Skyrim. In Skyrim you need to add skeleton and animation mods first, and then add the matching clothing or body mods.

 

In Fallout 4, the mod author does the work, and the end user can simply put on the end product without special secondary mods.

[AgentCarolina]

So how would I revert back from adding physics to a mod?

Do i need to redownload? 

[Karna5]

If you used the Nexus Mod Manager to install the mod, you can just use the "Re-install Mod" option, AgentCarolina. That will uninstall the (changed) files and put it back to its original.

[AgentCarolina]

If you used the Nexus Mod Manager to install the mod, you can just use the "Re-install Mod" option, AgentCarolina. That will uninstall the (changed) files and put it back to its original.

You're the best!

[alucrad90]

The main difference is that skyrim has no physic effect of cloth, HDT add it to the game

 

While in FO4 Beth had learnt how to use the havok cloth effect

[garg]

I felt kind of guilty hijacking so much of the "Caliente Announced" thread to discuss physics, even though the physics is part of the CBBE. But I'd like to mention something I see is currently a significant (though not necessarily bad) difference between Skyrim Physics and Fallout 4 physics.

 

In Skyrim the physics are tied to the skeleton and animations, so you can have several layers of clothing with physics, and they move together.

 

In Fallout 4, the physics are tied to the clothing, and the clothing and the natural body (the body not part of the clothing) do not necessarily move together. If you build a body with physics (one NIF) and put over it clothing with physics, they don't move together and look like they clip in game. Thus for Fallout 4 one should make the body and the physics one item and use the ESP to hide the non-outfit body by using slot 33 for the outfit.

 

What this means is Fallout 4 mod authors who want to add physics need to make full outfits, at least for the torso, which completely hide the non-outfit body using the ESP.

 

This said, you can put layers which don't touch the breasts fine. For instance, Ashara's Steampunk outfit has the skirt as its own piece of clothing. That's actually a good thing because it means you can put the breast physics on the main outfit and have the skirt over it in-game without clobbering the breast physics.

 

However, some of Ashara's add-on pieces like the harness or jacket do not have references, and thus they make creating a full physics outfit much more difficult.

 

Ideally, then, one would create everything with breast physics as one piece, and then can have any non-breast extras (arms, skirt, legs, panties, neck, etc.) optionally separate.

 

What this also means is that physics in Fallout 4 is technically easier to install for the end user than in Skyrim. In Skyrim you need to add skeleton and animation mods first, and then add the matching clothing or body mods.

 

In Fallout 4, the mod author does the work, and the end user can simply put on the end product without special secondary mods.

I do not see this clipping you speak of and I,m not sure what you mean by the physics is tied to clothing. If it were only tied to clothes then the physics wouldn't be there if you were naked which I can assure you it is!

[Karna5]

 

 

I do not see this clipping you speak of and I,m not sure what you mean by the physics is tied to clothing. If it were only tied to clothes then the physics wouldn't be there if you were naked which I can assure you it is!

 

 

 

Hi, Garg. Apply physics to any outfit which does not have a body reference to it, and you'll see the clipping. For instance, assign it to Zenna's bandage outfit or to 2Pac's microbikini. Even if you add a body reference shape to them, you'll see the outfit (and optionally its reference shape) along with the non-outfit body under it.

 

Only outfits which hide the body under it won't have the clipping. Fortunately, most outfits do have reference shapes, and most outfits block slot 33 (the body under the outfit) in the ESP.

 

EDIT: I did successfully add physics to both the outfits I mentioned as examples with clipping, but to do that I had to change both the NIF and the ESP.

 

For instance, to add physics without clipping to 2Pac's microbikini I had to:

1.  In the ESP change the armor slots from 54 to 33

2.  In the ESP change the armor addon slots from 54 to 33

3.  In the NIF (with outfit studio) add a reference body

4.  In the NIF (with outfit studio) add the physics

 

All these steps were required for that outfit to get physics without the appearance of clipping in-game.

[khaleeeeeeeeeeesi]

I'm very surprised we don't have a breast physics framework yet. Though maybe I'm misremembering how long it took for Skyrim.

[ousnius]

I'm very surprised we don't have a breast physics framework yet. Though maybe I'm misremembering how long it took for Skyrim.

 

It took 2-3 years for HDT PE to come out for Skyrim. There's already some sort of HDT PE built into FO4 itself, but we can't edit or access it well/at all.

[epitaph78]

I hope iam wrong..

but i think even iff we got acces the the integratet System, its features are to limited for a proper breast movment.. only enough for basic clothes

[ousnius]

I hope iam wrong..

but i think even iff we got acces the the integratet System, its features are to limited for a proper breast movment.. only enough for basic clothes

 

Yeah, the parts of Havok that FO4 makes use of don't include things like "dicks colliding with vaginas" or "hands colliding with boobs".

[khaleeeeeeeeeeesi]

So would someone working on a physics framework just tear out the current one that Fallout 4 uses and start fresh instead, so to speak?

[heavytop]

I'd be pretty satisfied with just breast physics honestly. Anything else is just a bonus. Although I feel like hand animated like BBB in Oblivion looks better than HDT in Skyrim (just personal opinion) because HDT makes breasts move like jello even if you manually tweak the values.

[alucrad90]

I hope iam wrong..

but i think even iff we got acces the the integratet System, its features are to limited for a proper breast movment.. only enough for basic clothes

 

We have collision,joint,and rigidbody and the havok cloth. They are realy enough

[Knaeggchen]

I think the biggest limitation of the integrated system would be that, while it's easier for the end user to get it running, it will be much harder for them to edit the physics.

Mod authors will most likely use completely different physics for their outfits, which will mean that one outfit will have only a weak physic, while others are going full jiggly mode.

 

The good thing about HDT-PE is that you can point to any amount of files containing physics. Thus they can not only be shared by different outfits and are much easier to edit, but you can also "combine" different physics.

I do not know why noone had done that before, but you could basicly create different jiggly presets for different circumstances (i.E. a nude, a cloth, a leather and chainmail preset) for butts and breasts and combine them however you like (optionally with additional clothing physics such as skirts). So if an outfit has a leather top, but a light skirt for the buttom, you can use leather breast physics, whilie the butt has stronger nude-like physics (as the skirt won't reduce the buttbonce much), but if it is a full leather suit, you could go for both physics with leather presets.

 

But given that the FO4 system does define the physics inside the armor's nif, it probably won't be possible to point to a master preset that the user can freely change to affect all armors at the same time.

The only idea I can come up with is that you can Outfit Studio/BodySlide has checkboxes for selecting different presets upon mesh creation and then applies the corresponding physics. This ofc would mean that whenever you want to change/tweak physics, you would have to re-create all armor meshes affected by these....

 

Anyway, as long as the system hasn't fully decrypted, we do not know the exact limitations of it.

[ousnius]

But given that the FO4 system does define the physics inside the armor's nif, it probably won't be possible to point to a master preset that the user can freely change to affect all armors at the same time.

The only idea I can come up with is that you can Outfit Studio/BodySlide has checkboxes for selecting different presets upon mesh creation and then applies the corresponding physics. This ofc would mean that whenever you want to change/tweak physics, you would have to re-create all armor meshes affected by these....

 

Doesn't work that way.

One NIF can only have one BSClothExtraData physics block in it.

 

So if BodySlide was putting the same physics into every NIF, the breast physics would work, but all other physics such as skirts can't work at the same time with it.

[Knaeggchen]

 

But given that the FO4 system does define the physics inside the armor's nif, it probably won't be possible to point to a master preset that the user can freely change to affect all armors at the same time.

The only idea I can come up with is that you can Outfit Studio/BodySlide has checkboxes for selecting different presets upon mesh creation and then applies the corresponding physics. This ofc would mean that whenever you want to change/tweak physics, you would have to re-create all armor meshes affected by these....

 

Doesn't work that way.

One NIF can only have one BSClothExtraData physics block in it.

 

So if BodySlide was putting the same physics into every NIF, the breast physics would work, but all other physics such as skirts can't work at the same time with it.

 

 

You are right, but I had it a little bit different in mind...

Well, its all still hypothetical, since we haven't figured out how exactly BSClothExtraData works yet. But let's say it could do like this:

The armor modder/maker could add custom physics for the clothing itself (such as skirt etc) which will be saved into the the BodySlide project. Upon creation of a mesh via bodyslide by the end user, it then "adds" these clothing physics to the chosen preset physics such as breasts.

 

Ofc this would probably a lot of work for the BodySlide coder, but I can't think of many alternatives. Until we have figured out how it works, we can just wait anyway.

[Guest kimbale]

As the physics in armoraddons uses bones specific the armoraddon a general physics setup wouldn't work.

 

I hope someone (*leers at invalidfate*) could tell us at least how to edit the phys assets in a hacky way. 

I tried to pull off something with the bethesda nif tools, but they lack any kind of documentation - they even went to the lengths to delete all strings that would help from the data - but there's a million parameters in a million of presets. Plus I don't know how to make the models even ready for export...

 

[Karna5]

For those who may be interested, AbeLincoln55 on Nexus gave me permission to create and upload a version of his Leather, Combat, Metal, Robot and Synth armors as well as the Red Dress on his mod page:

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/8936/?tab=4&&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fcomments%2F%3Fmod_id%3D8936%26page%3D1%26sort%3DDESC%26pid%3D0%26thread_id%3D3719660&pUp=1