Step by Step Guide: How to Customize Bounce Kits

[Monsto Brukes]

How to Customize Bounce Kits
 
Bounce Kit is just a cute name for the .xml file used to provide physics data for the object. This is purely a "How I Did It" guide for going thru the customization process. I'm outlining my process which has worked well for me for almost a year now of doing this. It's a simple process and you can tweak it as you see fit. However, if you're going to start here, you should finish here before forking off your own process.
 
I use Mod Organizer. I haven't used NMM since probably Jan '12. Therefore, the rest of this guide will assume you're using Mod Organizer. If you're not, well... you can figure it out.

 

Some known parameters and their effects are in the 2nd post of this thread.
 

Shit you need:

• Just For Fun v4 (hdtHavokModifier.exe program) known as JFF.
• Mod Organizer
  Mod Organizer is the best most integrated tool for uh... Organizing your Mods. I'll just point here for a tutorial. 
• Microsoft's XML Notepad
  Not required, but it's the one I use so I'll be referring to it. All you will need is a solid XML editor. This one beats the pants off of any text editor and most other XML editors.
• Work Studios skyrim mod 
  It's just a few small rooms with consistent lighting. Again not required, but it really helps streamline customization.

The way I set it up:

• Create a new profile in Mod Organizer.
  Copy an existing one making sure the old saves are available. This way you can load a game with your existing showracemenu body config. I use "local save games" so that these saves don't get in the way of my main game.
• Add your body mesh and outfits to the load.
  If you use a showracemenu mod, add that too.
• Add HDT PE to your load and make sure it is working
  If it doesn't really work yet, why are you here? Go to the tutorial first. http://www.loverslab.com/topic/25482-setup-step-by-step-setup-basics-for-hdt-physics-extension/
• Add Work Studios to the load.
  I have it pretty low but you can put it wherever you want. It overwrites nothing vanilla.
• Put JFF wherever you want and open it.
  I put it in a dir way away from the extension and just navigate to open the file. I'll bet that you could just as likely put it in the /skse/plugins dir without a problem. (I haven't but I can't imagine it causing issues)
• Click Load. Find and open your bounce kit.

You have this screen
 
 

 
Couple of notes about JFF:

• Look right here ^^^^^ at the bottom of that pic. There's an accordion tab there called Constraints. Click it. It's like a whole other half of the program. It's easy to miss.
• EVERYTHING does something. All the buttons, sliders, and dropdowns have something in them or are used for something. Sometimes, like the Constraints tab, it's not plainly obvious. But it's there. Other times, the plugin will use the parameter if the mesh calls it. Which means a lot of the fields remain empty.
• See the Add button at the top? If you create say a jangle-rific belly dancer outfit and you want to add/make HDT/PE parameters, you can start here.

Anyway, so... Great! It works.
 
Why do you need XML Notepad, too?
Just For Fun (JFF) is great for the interface and having things in one place... But it can be kinda clicky. If you're just changing 1 value A LOT while you make it perfect, using xml notepad can be much quicker.
 
 
Here's my workflow:

• Start the game in windowed mode, fullscreen res.
  Use ENB Settings or OneTweak to set it up. Without it, skyrim basically says "fuck you, betch" when you try to alt-tab. I've never gotten it to work even one cycle without this setup. DO IT.
• Load the save game with the char you want.
• console > coc studioblack (or white or blue)
  I use black.
• console > save hdt
  Not required, but reloading the game just becomes Enter Enter.
  Just a reminder: wherever the camera is pointed will be the savegame covershot.
• shift-tab to pop the steam console, which brings up the windows cursor. Now click on JFF.
• Change some values in JFF
  This is where you might start using XML Notepad. More below
• Save to the right place.
  Overwrite. Having some kinda backup system prior to this point is a good idea.
• Click on the skyrim window
• console > coc studioblack (or white or blue)
  This reloads the cell forcing reload of the bounce kit. You do not need to restart the game or reload a save game. This tiny black cell loads in about a second on my not-so-cutting-edge rig. This is precisely the reason I made and use the Work Studios mod.
• Using a combination of showracemenu, animcam, and fov changes, I examine the effects and decide what to change next.
• Repeat from step 5 as needed.

About step 6:
Making symmetrical changes, together, all the time, can be tedious. So I'll work on one item in this cycle, then I'll copy the parameters symmetrically about every 20th generation... just to see. When working on the one item and one parameter, I will use XML Notepad instead of JFF. Why? Simple: Type the value, ctrl-s. JFF would require many many clicks to produce the same output.
 
 
Using XML Notepad in the above workflow

• Using JFF, change the value of the parameter that you want to work on to something unique.
  If the value is 465.758 then make it 99465.75899
• In XML Notepad: ctrl-f > 99465.75899
  This way you don't have to dig around so much.
• Change the value
• ctrl-s to save
• Return to Step 8 in the workflow

While you're working on that single value on that single item, getting it just perfect, this method makes it super fast.

Happy boogedy-boogedy-boogedy-ing!

[Monsto Brukes]

Parameters
 
Here's some parameters that I know what they do. If you know something I don't, reply to this thread in the format below and I'll add it.
 
______________________________________________________________________

Constraints > dbl click any line > Tab: Normal > Tab: Linear/Angular Limits > Linear Motor X/Y/Z, far right, click the down arrow.

• Spring Constant changes the speed of the bounce.
• Spring Damping changes the "fall off" of how long the bounce lingers.
• Affected by: Rigid Bodies > L/R Breast/Butt > Advanced Properties and Mass Properties.

______________________________________________________________________
 
Rigid Bodies > L/R Breast/Butt > Advanced Properties > Time Factor

• Minor effect on speed of the bounce. Beyond 1.7 (effective max) will introduce an amplification that leads to TIT (The Inevitable Twitch)
• Unsure of the relationship to Spring Constant/Damping.

______________________________________________________________________

Rigid Bodies > L/R Breast/Butt > Mass Properties > Mass(kg)

• Changes visible weight. (Zero minimum in JFF)

______________________________________________________________________

Rigid Bodies > L/R Breast/Butt > Mass Properties > Center of Mass

• Sets the center point of the bounce. As this point is moved, it has a strange effect on the bounce, presumably because the actual mass stays in the same place.

______________________________________________________________________

Rigid Bodies > L/R Breast/Butt > Mass Properties > Inertia Tensor

• Effective range is 2-100.
• Tabbing order is fucked up here. I have found the most effective fields are Row 1 Col 1; 2, 2; 3, 3. The others create problems.

______________________________________________________________________

[Monsto Brukes]

reserved #2 (=

[Mr_G]

"console > coc studioblack" to reload the cell does not reload the .xml file for me. My game requires a full restart before the changes are updated (which makes adjustments next to impossible due to the time it takes to view 1 change). I went back over each step of the guide and don't see where I went wrong... any ideas? Thanks!

[Monsto Brukes]

"console > coc studioblack" to reload the cell does not reload the .xml file for me. My game requires a full restart before the changes are updated (which makes adjustments next to impossible due to the time it takes to view 1 change). I went back over each step of the guide and don't see where I went wrong... any ideas? Thanks!

 

Make sure you're using current skse. what ver of HDT is it? I know this has worked with Stable and later.

[Mr_G]

Up to date on both, but not using the alpha of skse.

 

(v14.28) HDT

skse 1.06.16

 

I checked if SSME was somehow interferring. It didn't have an effect either way.

I also tried setting TESV.exe to run as admin. No go there either.

 

I'm working with a clean install of skyrim as well... hmph...

 

edit: I tried HDT .24 as well. no change.

[Mr_G]

Well it suddenly started working. I didn't actually change anything other than tweak my bodyslide and remake the files.

 

Wierd. Owell, thanks anyways for the guide! Very clear stuff.

[Monsto Brukes]

Well it suddenly started working. I didn't actually change anything other than tweak my bodyslide and remake the files.

 

Wierd. Owell, thanks anyways for the guide! Very clear stuff.

 

Thanks. I try.

 

At first I was kinda miffed that nobody responded to this post . . . but I guess that means that it served it's purpose well.

[abovewolf]

Yes your post is incredibly informative. I consider you to be the HDT guru. With your help I was able to get my settings just the way I like them. Thank you for taking the time to make the guide!

[Monsto Brukes]

thanks (-=

 

[Trystanwolf]

I have trouble with it not loading the hdt after saving it either. I can change it about 3 times before I need to restart the game. Dunno why it does that. It seems like it just wants to use what's in memory and won't clear it. Not a problem since it loads pretty quit. I have noticed that if the xml file is on armor, that unequiping it then requiping it reloads the file. Not sure if this will work on the body or how many times it will work until I have to reload the game. 

[Monsto Brukes]

l've found that instead of reloading the game, you can change cells. I usually use studioblack (as in the example). If it starts caching, I try studiowhite. If that doesn't work, I'll coc whiterundrunkenhuntsman and see if it changed.

 

I also had a problem a few days ago with my mod setup caching 100%, even thru all cell changes. I'm not sure exactly what it was, but once i changed to a testing profile (with very few mods loading) then it went away.

[slowman87]

Thanks for the post, this helped me to do exactly what i want, what i did is just open two instances of Just For Fun v4 (hdtHavokModifier.exe program), and in one of the instances opened the file hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml this cool guy shared (all credits to him Minoumimi, click to see his post), then in the other instances i opened mi second favourite file and start comparing parameters and changing it, finally what i did is combine the butt and breast parameters most liked for me and create a custom file with what i most like.

 

The only trouble I have and dont know how to fix, is on the Prebutt parameters I cant SAVE the weight on mass-parameter, it simply never saves and stays on value zero. I already tried to find the value trough Notepad, but seems is not there (I dont know nothing, im just an amateur).

[Minoumimi]

I have trouble with it not loading the hdt after saving it either. I can change it about 3 times before I need to restart the game. Dunno why it does that. It seems like it just wants to use what's in memory and won't clear it. Not a problem since it loads pretty quit. I have noticed that if the xml file is on armor, that unequiping it then requiping it reloads the file. Not sure if this will work on the body or how many times it will work until I have to reload the game. 

 

it used to happen to me everysingle time when i would use my Race transformations

or if i edited my char in showrace.. i had to change race or leave the Game to fix it everytime has well

 

with a mempatch it should fix it

or by adding nistringdata to the mesh itself to avoid using havok tool it should fix it

*should* xD worked for me but can't say for sure that its a sure fix

but i have no problems at all when using any mesh with nistringdata instead of using havok

[apoccolypsa]

Hi everybody,

 

First off i think there are many people here that know what they are doing. love messing around with things and atm i am messing with my HDT setup. got it all working and planning on making modifications to my liking (also on other parts than boobs) but i am a bit in the dark.

 

Am i missing something?

By now i have tried and seen many xml files and ALL are different. Where does eveybody get these numbers from?!

I understand that basicly everybody has his own body shape to his liking and that has something to do with it i am sure. not everybody likes big boobs or small buts. but i feel like im trying to draw a picture in the dark blindfolded upsidedown and with my left hand.. (im right handed btw )

 

i mean i understand x y and z.. but in relation to what?! the bone node.. the mesh centerpoint.. i have no freking clue.

 

I think people just do a very time consuming job with trail and error.. OR im missing something and there is a better and quicker way of doing it.

 

Somebody please enlighten me!

Or tell me ... dude your fuked.. feel in the dark till you find something you like..

 

[Monsto Brukes]

Hi everybody,

 

First off i think there are many people here that know what they are doing. love messing around with things and atm i am messing with my HDT setup. got it all working and planning on making modifications to my liking (also on other parts than boobs) but i am a bit in the dark.

 

Am i missing something?

By now i have tried and seen many xml files and ALL are different. Where does eveybody get these numbers from?!

I understand that basicly everybody has his own body shape to his liking and that has something to do with it i am sure. not everybody likes big boobs or small buts. but i feel like im trying to draw a picture in the dark blindfolded upsidedown and with my left hand.. (im right handed btw )

 

i mean i understand x y and z.. but in relation to what?! the bone node.. the mesh centerpoint.. i have no freking clue.

 

I think people just do a very time consuming job with trail and error.. OR im missing something and there is a better and quicker way of doing it.

 

Somebody please enlighten me!

Or tell me ... dude your fuked.. feel in the dark till you find something you like..

 

the changes to xyz are in relation to the original point of the bone relative to the axis of the mesh. https://code.google.com/p/hdt-pe/wiki/FieldDefinitions

 

and yes . . . it's time consuming via trial and error. Sometimes you've no idea what the available range is, so start out with giant swings just to see what it does, then bring it down, and you'll figure it out.

[apoccolypsa]

Thanks Monstro for that link that is information i can use!

 

but what about this .. if i look at the picture on the site they tell me the front of the model is on the X axis.. when import the skeleton in lets say blender the front of the model is on the Y axis.. whats that about? also in nifscope btw.. but if i look in nifscope and at coordinates there i might get a better starting point? and go from there.. but what is front? Y+ or X+ ? my gues is Y+

 

Have been playing around and got something i kinda like but knowing myself i want it better hehe

 

Inertia Tensor Controls Inertia, Increase numbers to 'tighten' control and decrease number to 'loosen' control. It is directly related to Center Of Mass and Mass.Think of this as an invisible frame that has springs connected to the rigid body. The values change the stiffness of those springs.

 

Great for a simpelton like me! 

 

this is what i was looking at lol

Inertia Tensor

 

Edit: nm on my question about the axis.. think i get it now

need to read better i gues