About Merging Plugins

Sarge Misfit · June 11, 2017

I'm about ready to start trimming my mods down through merging them. I've done it a couple of times before, had no real issues and I'm confident I will have few, if any, problems. But, that's about it. I'd like to know a bit more and maybe start a conversation that others will find helpful and informative.

So, to start, I have the understanding that Skyrim has a limit to how many mods it can run, being 254. And using Merge Plugins with Mod Organizer will let you, well, merge a number of plugins into one, thereby opening up slots for more plugins.

Does merging plugins affect stability?

Is there a maximum to the number of plugins that you can merge together?

Can you merge merged plugins?

Anything to beware of?

Got any horror stories about merging plugins?

Got any funny stories about merging plugins?

Let me know if I should add questions and answers to this first post with the idea of creating a sort of FAQ. Merge Plugin's creator did a very good job on instruction, but its a bit lengthy when you just want to get it done.

Corinthinius · June 11, 2017

I use TES5Edit to merge plugins myself. I haven't had any problems either really. I do like to follow certain rules though, namely I don't merge plugins accompanied by .bsa's, I don't merge overhaul mods, gameplay changers, or anything MCM or script heavy. I basically just merge item mods, NPC/follower, and occasionally race mods.

I haven't seen any stability issues with merging plugins unless one of them was bad or dirty already. I would imagine loading fewer plugins would probably improve stability.

I don't think I've merged more than 4 or 5 plugins at a time, though and they were all item mods and maybe they added 10 or less items each.

I have merged plugins from merged plugins with no issue, again unless one of the plugins being added was already unstable or dirty. I imagine super huge .esp's will probably become unstable, though.

Honestly, I never really pushed the bounds of plugin merging. When I did merge, It was usually like mods (ie item mods with item mods), and since TES5Edit wouldn't let me overwrite other mods, I would just do a quick rename swap out in Windows Explorer. I haven't had any issues doing this.

LatencyRemix · June 11, 2017

I feel your pain. I just went and done a merge and in the process totally nixed my save game. If you haven't done so all ready watch the gamer poets tutorial on merge plugins, i found it to be very helpful.

Problems I've came across was if i merged too many into one merge pack it would tell me "you need to rebuild NavMesh in CK" which i don't understand how to do so i just delete it and start over.

For now i have weapons and armor's all piled up in their own merge's and have my game running wtih 240 active 290 total with merge's. I did try lumping all hair/eyes into one but then sometimes had issue's with preset's not finding hair or eyes that were used.

I'm not an expert by any measure, ive only been modding again for the past 2 week's, and gone bald in 2 weeks. Ive had many trial's and many more error's trying to get things to where there at now.

Goodluck with your merge and hope it all works out

worik · June 11, 2017

...

Does merging plugins affect stability?

Is there a maximum to the number of plugins that you can merge together?

Can you merge merged plugins?

Anything to beware of?

Got any horror stories about merging plugins?

Got any funny stories about merging plugins?

Since I am a fan of merging my mods, maybe a few comments from me

Stability: YES and NO. If yu to everything right, at least my game runs far better. In fairness I must assume this probably more influenced by the mod cleaning procedure (which is a prerequisite to merging) than the merging itself
Maximum Number: no idea - my biggest merge is around 20
Merge merges: Technically the merger works, but it is strongly suggested to NOT DO IT. NO NO! You will die and the sun will turn black.

An additional sidenote from me: I play with Perkus Maximus (SkyRe before) and merged mods for 3 or 4 years now and it works perfectly if I pay attention to my steps

Have a plan what your load order is (I do it manually, LOOT has disappointed me)
Have a plan what you want to merge in to what (e.g. I merge weapon mods into MY_SINGLE_WEAPON_MOD.esp)
Merge only mods form a sequence in my load order
Test in a testing game before I let loose on my real game
Have fun when:
1. in the middle of your merged playthough
2. 2 merged mods get updated and change dependencies
3. and require clean saves for a working update
4. It IS possible but takes time and your full concentration on doing all steps right

Varithina · June 11, 2017

I'm about ready to start trimming my mods down through merging them. I've done it a couple of times before, had no real issues and I'm confident I will have few, if any, problems. But, that's about it. I'd like to know a bit more and maybe start a conversation that others will find helpful and informative.

So, to start, I have the understanding that Skyrim has a limit to how many mods it can run, being 254. And using Merge Plugins with Mod Organizer will let you, well, merge a number of plugins into one, thereby opening up slots for more plugins.

Does merging plugins affect stability?

Is there a maximum to the number of plugins that you can merge together?

Can you merge merged plugins?

Anything to beware of?

Got any horror stories about merging plugins?

Got any funny stories about merging plugins?

Stability, it may or may not depending on just what you are mergeing, fewer esp seem to make things more stable, I would imagine it is due to having to spend less time loading assets from each esp.

Maximum number, I have merged 50 armour mods into one, some of them have dozens of items in them, though to be fair ck does complain with an error message if you load that merged esp into it about tuncated something or others, but it still seems to load, there is however a maxium number of records and esp can hold, can not for the life in me remember where I saw it stated though, but as it is in the hundreds of thousands of records for the most part that is not likely to be a problem.

Also if you are merging mods check to see if the update.esm is a master if it is not then it can be well worth adding as in the case of many armour mods that give invalid an out of order records adding update as a master tends to sort those errors out, not always, even when adding it you may still get those errors, but for many armour/weapons mods it will sort that error out.

Merging merged pluings, if they are just armor/weapons with the only scripts being hdt stuff then I can see no reason why you could not, for anything else though it may well the trial and error, and of course you do not want to merge mods that are updated too often otherwise you will be constantly rebuilding your merges.

LazyBoot · June 11, 2017

Maximum number, I have merged 50 armour mods into one, some of them have dozens of items in them, though to be fair ck does complain with an error message if you load that merged esp into it about tuncated something or others, but it still seems to load, there is however a maxium number of records and esp can hold, can not for the life in me remember where I saw it stated though, but as it is in the hundreds of thousands of records for the most part that is not likely to be a problem.

Well, seeing as how the record IDs are represented as 8 digit hex numbers, with the first 2 being the loadorder of the mod, the max would then be slightly past 16.7 million.

Varithina · June 11, 2017

Maximum number, I have merged 50 armour mods into one, some of them have dozens of items in them, though to be fair ck does complain with an error message if you load that merged esp into it about tuncated something or others, but it still seems to load, there is however a maxium number of records and esp can hold, can not for the life in me remember where I saw it stated though, but as it is in the hundreds of thousands of records for the most part that is not likely to be a problem.
Well, seeing as how the record IDs are represented as 8 digit hex numbers, with the first 2 being the loadorder of the mod, the max would then be slightly past 16.7 million.

As I said for most people not a problem, maybe for something like endral or such then yeh, it could become a problem. Bingo think this was the thread I was thinking about https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/3knv0e/merging_plugins_whats_the_max_amount_of_records_a/

Sarge Misfit · June 11, 2017

Well, I've been checking out new mods this last week or so, and now its time for a good, clean rebuild.

The overall goal is the obvious one of exploring all of Skyrim and completing all the quests. I want to do it with some realism, so I've got Heretical Devices, Prison Overhaul and such. That also includes consequences, such as being sold into slavery if she loses a fight. My sense of humour tends to be a bit ... off the wall, and playing a character that lives in a kinky Skyrim is something I find to be quite humorous. I want it to look good, have weather and so on. And all that takes a lot of mods. More than 254 to do what I want to do.

So, the plan at the moment is to rebuild my game and then start using Merge Plugins to open up enough slots so I can add a few more. I'm currently at 251 and want to add FrostFall, Campfire (with 4 addons), Last seed, Art of the Catch, Hunterborn and its patch, ... and that's not counting the terrains I want to add that I checked out before but dropped until I got to this point. As near as I can estimate, I've got about 300 mods I would like to play in the same game, so I've got a bit of work ahead of me.

Sarge Misfit · June 12, 2017

Well, that's an interesting result.

Just finished a complete re-install of my mods and ended up going from 251 to 243, even after adding FrostFall, Campfire and a number of others.

Its because I didn't install mods that I don't use. Mostly outifts, but still, I hadn't realized that I had about two dozen of those that I had been installing simply our of habit, like armours that have no BodySlide.

Varithina · June 12, 2017

Well, that's an interesting result.

Just finished a complete re-install of my mods and ended up going from 251 to 243, even after adding FrostFall, Campfire and a number of others.

Its because I didn't install mods that I don't use. Mostly outifts, but still, I hadn't realized that I had about two dozen of those that I had been installing simply our of habit, like armours that have no BodySlide.

Now all those armours mods are a good thing to merge, same if you use loads of weapons mods, merge all those into one, though do be careful when merging as some armour/weapons mods esp are used as masters for other mods, though I only have seen a couple most tend to just link to the mesh/textures and such rather than the esp.

Sarge Misfit · June 12, 2017

Yeah, I was noting things like that as I re-installed mods.

But now I'm not so sure I need to merge things. As near as I can tell, I've got all the mods installed that I want to play for the long term with room left to try new ones.

Load order:

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm
Falskaar.esm
Wyrmstooth.esp
CreatureFramework.esm
RaceCompatibility.esm
Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
hdtHighHeel.esm
SexLab.esm
Devious Devices - Assets.esm
WM Flora Fixes.esp
ApachiiHairFemales.esm
Campfire.esm
ZaZAnimationPack.esm
SexLabAroused.esm
Devious Devices - Integration.esm
Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
Heretical Resources.esm
SexLab - Sexual Fame [sLSF].esm
SexlabInteractiveArousal.esm
paradise_halls.esm
NPCs of Dibella - Resources.esm
notice board.esp
TERAArmors.esm
Gray Fox Cowl.esm
zzEsSp.esm
Cutting Room Floor.esp
dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp
FNIS.esp
SOSRaceMenu.esp
XPMSE.esp
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
ELFX - Exteriors.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
SkyUI.esp
SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp
UIExtensions.esp
RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
LegacyoftheDragonborn.esp
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
Rebirth Monster.esp
FNISSexyMove.esp
RaceMenuOverlayCompilation - CBBE.esp
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
CampfireKExt.esp
NibblesAnimObjects.esp
SLA Monitor Widget.esp
SLALAnimObj.esp
SLAL_K4Anims.esp
SLAnimLoader.esp
ZaZHDTWorkshop.esp
pahe-DeviousDevices-addon-DDx-patch.esp
ZazResources.esp
SerialStrip.esp
CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp
Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp
Complete Alchemy & Cooking Overhaul.esp
Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp
LastSeed.esp
Book Covers Skyrim.esp
ELFXEnhancer.esp
paradise_halls_SLExtension.esp
MoreBanditCamps(Explorer'sEdition).esp
RealShelter.esp
xazPrisonOverhaul.esp
xazPrisonOverhaul - Patch.esp
Helgen Reborn.esp
Populated Skyrim Legendary.esp
CWIELnFXPatch.esp
Undeath.esp
Ebonvale.esp
OBIS.esp
hydra_slavegirls.esp
SexLab_DibellaCult.esp
ELFX - Weathers.esp
OBISDB.esp
OBIS Loot.esp
Captured Dreams.esp
CD - Female Embassy Guards.esp
RSPatch.esp
AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp
Smithing Perks Overhaul_Remade.esp
Better Embers.esp
Books of Skyrim Compilation.esp
Start As Breton Female.esp
SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp
Slaverun_Reloaded_Comments.esp
SLIA - Books of Skyrim.esp
Devious Devices - Gags+.esp
DibellanDefender.esp
Edhildils Sorceress Robes.esp
EdhildilsDwarvencyborg.esp
Edhildilsmithrilblades.esp
EquipableStockings.esp
Masque of Clavicus Vile.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
dD-Dragonborn-Dawnguard-EBT Patch.esp
KS Hairdo's.esp
Simple Slavery Defeat.esp
Cidhna Mine Expanded.esp
SexLab-Stories.esp
Do You Know Who I Am.esp
RaceCompatibilityUSKPOverride.esp
SkyrimsUniqueTreasures.esp
SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp
TradeBarter.esp
Dogs-of-Skyrim.esp
DBM_CACO_Patch.esp
JewelCraft.esp
DBM_WAF_CCF_CCOR_Patch.esp
SLIA - Legendary.esp
SLIA - Dawnguard.esp
SLIA - Dragonborn.esp
SLIA - Hearthfires.esp
SLIA - Skyrim.esp
Artifacts.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
zDeviousStories.esp
P1FlyingRing.esp
SexSlavesForVanillaBandits.esp
Frostfall.esp
Deviously Cursed Loot.esp
ImCh.esp
SimpleSlavery.esp
DeviousRegulations.esp
PAH_HomeSweetHome.esp
Hunterborn.esp
Slaverun_Reloaded.esp
DBM_IW_Patch.esp
konahrik_accoutrements.esp
paradise_halls_farengars_study.esp
Farm Animals.esp
Farm Animals_HF.esp
CoCo_TDM2.esp
SLIA - The Devious Manual.esp
Hunterborn_CACO_Patch.esp
Hunterborn_Campfire_Patch.esp
Dovahkiins_Infamy.esp
BrandingDeviceOfDoom.esp
DibellasRecruit.esp
SexLab_Dialogues.esp
SMUTBDS.esp
SexLab_DibellaCult_Sisters.esp
SLIA - SMUT Books.esp
Devious Cidhna.esp
CagesDiverse.esp
zzEstrus.esp
WheelsOfLull.esp
Space Wiking's Dwemer Exoskeleton.esp
EstrusChaurus.esp
SexLab-StoriesDevious.esp
Devious Devices - Equip.esp
EK_RingLimiter.esp
EstrusSpider.esp
ItemRewardsForBounties.esp
QuieterDogs.esp
CD - D.D. Equip.esp
Craftable Arrows v1.2.esp
Steel Bolts For All.esp
XiNafay - Shoes.esp
Auto Unequip Ammo.esp
Auto Unequip Helmet.esp
BB mass ingots smelter.esp
Glowing Vampire Eyes.esp
NewVampChainsArmor.esp
Glowing Eyes.esp
Hermaeus Mora's Caress.esp
Skyrim_Strap_Ons.esp
DrunkenSluts.esp
GagSFX.esp
Gatti12Jewelry.esp
KS Jewelry.esp
MoreNastyCritters.esp
SexLabNudeCreatures.esp
SexLabNudeCreaturesDB.esp
SexLabNudeCreaturesDG.esp
SlaveTats.esp
SlaveTatsEventsBridge.esp
submissivelola.esp
AetheriumSwordsnArmor.esp
alesCampBedrollsSupplies.esp
altvamplord.esp
AngrimApprentice.esp
paradise_halls_fellglow_slave_camp.esp
konahrik_accoutrements_db.esp
DBM_DPA_Patch.esp
DBM_CRF_Patch.esp
DBM_Undeath_Patch.esp
Isharas_TNB_LoTD_Addon.esp
FNISspells.esp
Dwemertech - Magic of the Dwarves.esp
ArtifactsOfBoethiah.esp
DBM_ArtifactsOfBoethiah_Patch.esp
ArtOfTheCatch.esp
SLALAnimObjBillyy.esp
Devious Deviants.esp
SGS.esp
Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp
Neo's Slave Leia Renewal.esp
Mannequin_Female_Vyctoria.esp
BCS - CCOR Patch.esp
BDSkimpyClothes.esp
dcc-dm2.esp
Devious Masque of Clavicus Vile.esp
ElDuderinosDefaultRetexes.esp
ElDuderinos_Fetish_GrabBag.esp
Master Gets a Job.esp
nakedforsworn.esp
non-devious devices.esp
SexLabMassMatchMaker.esp
SOS - Revealing Armors.esp
SPTDiverseGuardsSkyrim.esp
TERAArmors_CBBE.esp
TS_SlickArmour.esp
UnreadBooksGlow.esp
Zipsuit.esp
AMatterOfTime.esp
Animated Dragon Wings.esp
BlackRedLatexDress.esp
Gatti3Evilrose.esp
GattiBondage1.esp
PrisonerRagsForFemales.esp
Skyrim Sexy Remodeled Armor for CBBE.esp
SpikeBallOutfit.esp
WarpNudeRings.esp
zzLSAR.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
Alternate Start -- New Beginnings.esp
Deviously Cursed Loot LAL AddOn.esp

worik · June 12, 2017

You still have Options to merge more mods:

E.g. I usually play with "Cidhna Mine Expanded.esp" and "Devious Cidhna.esp" merged into myCidhna.esp .. It never failed me.

Lodakai · June 12, 2017

You still have Options to merge more mods:

E.g. I usually play with "Cidhna Mine Expanded.esp" and "Devious Cidhna.esp" merged into myCidhna.esp .. It never failed me.

This is the way i do it. I have a mod in my list that i keep as craftable items. Any armor or nonscripted item goes into that mod.

As a rule, I backup my previous ESP file before merging... I then merge, and test.

For npc's I rarely add followers.. Instead, I use npc visual transfer and transpose npc looks over already existing NPCs.

Any armor pack that has a BSA, I use MO to extract the BSA first. I then disable the BSA by setting it hidden in MO.

I always have a merchant with a container in my merged items ESP, so that I can have the option to add the items to their vendor list.

I will also change some of the craftable settings so that it requires certain items to craft, this keeps it from cluttering the crafting list.

Anything that I do not intend to craft, I may just hijack the craftable section of that item to make another item instead that may not have it.

I do the same with my npc visual transfer ESP, so that I can have follower outfits available for sale at the merchants i have included in that list.

Sarge Misfit · June 12, 2017

Oh, definitely, I've still got the merging option and, now, I can take some time to actually plan it out.

In the meantime, the big decision is which of the ASLAL starts to use. I installed Ebonvale, which has a player home. From what I understand, the town is run by mercahnts, so maybe the Wandering Merchant start. An almost perfect option except that I'm stuck with a horse I don't want

Hmmmm .... maybe the wandering Mercenary returning to her home of Skyrim. She's been rewarded with a small house in her home province of Skyrim for saving the life of a noble in Cyrodiil. Good thing, too, 'cause she was getting pretty tired of the straight-laced, uptight Empire and Thalmor. She'll be glad to get back home and enjoy a more open and fun filled life

It too bad that she doesn't know that she's been cursed to become a succubus. The noble's son hired a witch when Ravyn spurned the little creep's advances. (I'll activate PSQ the first time she's been infected with the vampire virus)

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