Grey/discolored faces

[zaraia]

This doesn't appear to be related to any mods, I have this issue in the vanilla game.

 

The faces in my Skyrim seem to react differently to lighting than the bodies. Under certain lighting they will look normal, but usually they will look more like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(notice the strong colour difference between the face and body?)

 

At first I thought I had screwed it up with mods, so I reinstalled the game from scratch, but I still have the same problem.

 

 

Does anyone have an idea what this might be due to? Any help would be very much appreciated.

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Is the problem occurring with NPC's you're trying to create/edit using the new Creation Kit? Or is that your character in-game?

 

 

[zaraia]

Is the problem occurring with NPC's you're trying to create/edit using the new Creation Kit? Or is that your character in-game?

 

No it's in-game I'm afraid.

[Lumines]

Have the same problem. I dont remember having this problem before. Now I have NPCs (both male and female) with greyed out head. Can't find a solution to this

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Weird. I've seen this happen with the CK, but never just randomly out of the blue like that...

 

- Auto-applying(?) mods subscribed to via Steam (*I haven't used Steam mods yet, so I don't know how they work)?

 

- Some other mod you've applied recently, which may require re-application of whatever other mods it's messed with in order to fix the problem (skin/face/body/etc.)

 

- Does it happen if you remove the "Data" folder from your Skyrim directory (ie: the folder where all of your mod data is parked)?

EDIT: Zaraia makes a point. Do not try this at home.

[zaraia]

Weird. I've seen this happen with the CK' date=' but never just randomly out of the blue like that...

 

- Auto-applying(?) mods subscribed to via Steam (*I haven't used Steam mods yet, so I don't know how they work)?

 

- Some other mod you've applied recently, which may require re-application of whatever other mods it's messed with in order to fix the problem (skin/face/body/etc.)

 

- Does it happen if you remove the "Data" folder from your Skyrim directory (ie: the folder where all of your mod data is parked)?

[/quote']

 

Nope, I haven't used Steam mods either, and this already happens for the completely unmodded game. Removing the Data folder breaks the game (that contains a lot of non-mod related things doesn't it?) But in any case it doesn't contain anything that didn't come from the installation.

 

So far I've run into four other people who have the same issue, all of them using Windows 7 64-bit. That seems to be the thing we all have in common...

 

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Hmm...

 

So, the discolouration problem being encountered is similar to the pics below, yes?

 

 

 

 

*Source: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2297261&page=7

 

 

Does the problem still occur when using a facial texture mod such as "Better Females by Bella"?

[zaraia]

Hmm...

 

So' date=' the discolouration problem being encountered is similar to the pics below, yes?

 

 

[img']http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/613845918337328272/D863AF48C01BA0717399FAB8DDB429F9F1588734/[/img]

 

 

*Source: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2297261&page=7

 

 

Does the problem still occur when using a facial texture mod such as "Better Females by Bella"?

 

Yup that seems to be the same issue.

 

And no, face mods don't help, in fact the face posted in the OP is modded.

 

Here's an unmodded face for comparison:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same discoloration.

[bannor9]

I think part of the issue is body mod replacers, they do NOT affect faces etc, they only affect the body itself, and if the NPC has a specific face assigned to it (IE, not a generic but one that has a name associated with it) then the face is actually still using the image generated by Bethesda, which is typically set to some form of dirty skin regardless, IE the tint masks are different between the body mod and the actual face as generated by the game itself.

 

In other words, ANY mod will NOT affect everything in game. If the resource being viewed is something that was specifically generated by Bethesda, your mod will not touch it unless it specifically affects that particular face.

 

This appears to be true with any of the non vanilla body mods out there. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a lot you can do with it.

 

Many of the "Beauty" mods out there will affect general faces, but again it goes back to whether or not that specific NPC has a specific face generated OR if that NPC is using the stock body shape/tint etc. IE, a general face that is just using the body slider as defined by Bethesda will recolor/repaint with your override mod, but unless your mod specifically replaces NAMED NPC faces, then you are not likely to see improvements for those faces.

 

You can see this with most of the Beautifying mods where they also include options for specific NPC,s like Aela. If the face replacer does not specifically replace Aela's face/head, then you will continue to get the face paint, and original skin texture regardless of whatever underlying body mod you may have installed.

 

Basically, the way the game handles PC/NPC's is pretty complicated, and pretty annoying as well. Single body for all humanoid races, with only head changes for specific races with a slight change to the tinting used to colorize the body. Instead of having specific meshes for each race (nord, redguard, whatever) the engine is only changing color tint and still uses the base skin and body mesh, with a slight scaling change to make them appear just a bit different. Then various sliders are applied for body weight, IF the underlying body mesh mod supports that (most do now).

 

Bethesda chose to shortcut the increased mesh issue by just changing scaling instead, and changing colorization via the tint side of things, with slight variations of body weight. Then, they created specific, named, heads for specific NPC's. This was faster than testing various body meshes.

 

Note that NEW body meshes are possible, including NEW meshes for each individual race, but those have not yet been created by the community that I can find anywhere. Since they are not actually required on a race by race nature, most folks are content to use the same base body mesh/skin and replace just the skin where needed.

 

Eventually, some modder (actual modder not someone using the CK, but someone using 3ds/photoshop/blender whatever tools) will generate NEW body meshes for each race, and then you will have few issues, except for those specific NAMED NPC's that have specific heads created for them by Bethesda, and with those, you will always have a colorization issue depending on how different the specific race body mesh and skin mesh are colored.

[zaraia]

Thank you bannor, but I mentioned that this is not a consequence of any mods, it happens in the freshly installed vanilla unmodded game.

 

Maybe I shouldn't have posted that here on a modding site, but I thought it was worth a try, in case anyone in the community recognised this.

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Hmm...

 

So' date=' the discolouration problem being encountered is similar to the pics below, yes?

 

 

[img']http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/613845918337328272/D863AF48C01BA0717399FAB8DDB429F9F1588734/[/img]

 

 

*Source: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2297261&page=7

 

 

Does the problem still occur when using a facial texture mod such as "Better Females by Bella"?

 

Yup that seems to be the same issue.

 

And no, face mods don't help, in fact the face posted in the OP is modded.

 

Here's an unmodded face for comparison:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same discoloration.

 

 

Ahhh. Okay - yeh, now I get it. Sorry! Skyrim's "vanilla" textures really are "just like that". Not necessarily for every single person in every different lighting condition, but certainly for many if not most of us. Not every mod will make a great deal of difference - some may, some may not.

 

For example, I use a basic series of mods, and I end up with this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm so sorry I have not been able to offer better assistance on this. I can see the issue on vanilla textures (hence why I do not use them), but if the same problem is persisting even when mods are applied, unfortunately the best I can offer is "try a different mod".

[bannor9]

It all boils down to the fact that Faces (as part of the head object) are different items than the body. Different textures applied (IE no single skin tone is applied across both, but an actual texture is used for each one individually) to both objects.

 

MANY of the NPC's have specific shading etc applied as well. The vanilla body, with vanilla clothing tends to hide the neck region, and the difference is not as visible.

 

You can see this using the NPC Editor as well. Specific faces have specific textures applied to their heads. These are separate from the main body mesh, and usually shaded differently.

 

There may also be an engine issue with how the different textures are applied/shown in game. How lighting is affected etc.

 

Anyway, there is not likely to be a universal fix for this unless some team as in more than one person, takes it upon themselves to edit every NPC in game. That would be a very major effort, and would only work with one specific body replacement texture or with the Vanilla texture applied by Bethesda, it would not work with all of them.

 

This "error" also occurs with different races, IE Dark Elves, Redguard etc, I have seen it on many different faces. Both vanilla and with body mesh/texture replacement packs. This leads me to believe that it is actually something in how the engine handles lighting/shading and overlays within the display.

 

The other issue is that clothing is applied in various ways depending on the skill level of the person modifying that clothing/armour. Most of the armour additions/replacements, are generated with their OWN copy of an individual body mesh/texture replacement, that overrides whatever mesh you have chosen as the universal. Take a look at the CBBE with any of the armour packs by Killer Keos as an example. The Killer Keos armour packs, even the fully clothed ones, provide the specific armour with it's OWN body mesh, that overwrites the CBBE or whatever other mod you have installed, INCLUDING the vanilla. Remove the armour from an NPC and magically their breasts shrink back to normal sized instead of the double/triple sized version that Killer Keos based his armour packs on. It almost appears as if it doubles the weight slider scaling on the body mesh. Not sure why it is necessary to force a new body mesh under the armour that way, but it may be an engine requirement. If not, we will have to wait until folks get used to creating armour without forcing a new body mesh underneath it, and allowing the player/owner to use whatever overriding body mesh they wish.

 

Note: I am NOT knocking anyone's skills, I am only making assumptions on observations. I don't yet know if an actual bodymesh/skinmesh is required under the armour. Or if armour/clothing can just be dropped on top of the original mesh without overrides. So far though, all the clothing/armour replacements/additions etc, that I have seen are all forcing a replacement bodymesh onto the NPC/PC whenever you wear that clothing/armour. So far I have not found one that does not do this, but I hope, sincerely, that it would be possible to create clothing without having to force a specific body mesh down onto the PC/NPC.

[omegau]

I have a similar issue, except the faces almost turn black. It started happening after one of the updates, when I had to commonly use ctrl+alt+delete to force my game to load up. If your problem is the same as mine, having to do that may be the cause, as my faces will return to normal if I use the ctrl+alt+delete again, normally.

[Lumines]

I have a similar issue' date=' except the faces almost turn black. It started happening after one of the updates, when I had to commonly use ctrl+alt+delete to force my game to load up. If your problem is the same as mine, having to do that may be the cause, as my faces will return to normal if I use the ctrl+alt+delete again, normally.

[/quote']

 

i think honestly this might have to do something with ndvidia's new driver update. did not had this problem before.

 

you have ndvidia video card also by coincidence?

[omegau]

I have a similar issue' date=' except the faces almost turn black. It started happening after one of the updates, when I had to commonly use ctrl+alt+delete to force my game to load up. If your problem is the same as mine, having to do that may be the cause, as my faces will return to normal if I use the ctrl+alt+delete again, normally.

[/quote']

 

i think honestly this might have to do something with ndvidia's new driver update. did not had this problem before.

 

you have ndvidia video card also by coincidence?

 

I have no idea. If I could find out, I would, but when it comes to the technical stuff, I'm the last person anyone should ever go to.

[zaraia]

Ahhh. Okay - yeh' date=' now I get it. Sorry! Skyrim's "vanilla" textures really are "just like that". Not necessarily for every single person in every different lighting condition, but certainly for many if not most of us. Not every mod will make a great deal of difference - some may, some may not.

[/quote']

 

Well that's what I thought originally, which is why I didn't made this thread earlier. But once I saw some screenshots and youtube footage in the same kind of lighting I realised it's not supposed to look like that. And it's not a texture issue, it seems to be about shaders. That's why mods don't help.

 

Maybe this is actually very widespread and everyone with a 64-bit system has it, except everyone thinks like you or like I did that it's just crappy design. But really what possible reason could there be for shading the head differently from the body, hands and feet? I mean look at the colour difference on the neck in the first pic.

 

I'm so sorry I have not been able to offer better assistance on this. I can see the issue on vanilla textures (hence why I do not use them)' date=' but if the same problem is persisting even when mods are applied, unfortunately the best I can offer is "try a different mod".

[/quote']

 

That's not it, vanilla textures aren't supposed to look like that. But thank you for your help

 

 

This "error" also occurs with different races' date=' IE Dark Elves, Redguard etc, I have seen it on many different faces. Both vanilla and with body mesh/texture replacement packs. This leads me to believe that it is actually something in how the engine handles lighting/shading and overlays within the display.

[/quote']

 

Well yes I have the same issue for all races.

 

 

I have a similar issue' date=' except the faces almost turn black. It started happening after one of the updates, when I had to commonly use ctrl+alt+delete to force my game to load up. If your problem is the same as mine, having to do that may be the cause, as my faces will return to normal if I use the ctrl+alt+delete again, normally.

[/quote']

 

That sounds like an issue I had with some versions of enbseries. I removed it and reverted to version 0091 (I only needed enb to fix an issue with fire and magic effects not appearing in game).

[omegau]

 

 

I have a similar issue' date=' except the faces almost turn black. It started happening after one of the updates, when I had to commonly use ctrl+alt+delete to force my game to load up. If your problem is the same as mine, having to do that may be the cause, as my faces will return to normal if I use the ctrl+alt+delete again, normally.

[/quote']

 

That sounds like an issue I had with some versions of enbseries. I removed it and reverted to version 0091 (I only needed enb to fix an issue with fire and magic effects not appearing in game).

 

I use them, but only for the purpose of being able to see what I'm doing. I don't want to accidentally walk into a stream of flames or something. I'm still wondering why I have to do the ctrl+alt+delete thing though.

[Lumines]

Ahhh. Okay - yeh' date=' now I get it. Sorry! Skyrim's "vanilla" textures really are "just like that". Not necessarily for every single person in every different lighting condition, but certainly for many if not most of us. Not every mod will make a great deal of difference - some may, some may not.

[/quote']

 

Well that's what I thought originally, which is why I didn't made this thread earlier. But once I saw some screenshots and youtube footage in the same kind of lighting I realised it's not supposed to look like that. And it's not a texture issue, it seems to be about shaders. That's why mods don't help.

 

Maybe this is actually very widespread and everyone with a 64-bit system has it, except everyone thinks like you or like I did that it's just crappy design. But really what possible reason could there be for shading the head differently from the body, hands and feet? I mean look at the colour difference on the neck in the first pic.

 

I'm so sorry I have not been able to offer better assistance on this. I can see the issue on vanilla textures (hence why I do not use them)' date=' but if the same problem is persisting even when mods are applied, unfortunately the best I can offer is "try a different mod".

[/quote']

 

That's not it, vanilla textures aren't supposed to look like that. But thank you for your help

 

 

This "error" also occurs with different races' date=' IE Dark Elves, Redguard etc, I have seen it on many different faces. Both vanilla and with body mesh/texture replacement packs. This leads me to believe that it is actually something in how the engine handles lighting/shading and overlays within the display.

[/quote']

 

Well yes I have the same issue for all races.

 

 

I have a similar issue' date=' except the faces almost turn black. It started happening after one of the updates, when I had to commonly use ctrl+alt+delete to force my game to load up. If your problem is the same as mine, having to do that may be the cause, as my faces will return to normal if I use the ctrl+alt+delete again, normally.

[/quote']

 

That sounds like an issue I had with some versions of enbseries. I removed it and reverted to version 0091 (I only needed enb to fix an issue with fire and magic effects not appearing in game).

 

 

Hm...shaders you say? You know same for me too. I remember the day that I messed around with shaders was the day this issue with 'greyed head' starts to pop up.

 

What kind of shaders did you use...do you remember?

 

So far I used "SKYRIM ENHANCED SHADERS" "Confident ENB Collection" and installed 'bugfix patch/anti freeze patch' for ENB series

[zaraia]

Hm...shaders you say? You know same for me too. I remember the day that I messed around with shaders was the day this issue with 'greyed head' starts to pop up.

 

What kind of shaders did you use...do you remember?

 

So far I used "SKYRIM ENHANCED SHADERS" "Confident ENB Collection" and installed 'bugfix patch/anti freeze patch' for ENB series

 

lol once again, I'm using NO MODS WHATSOEVER

 

It happens regardless, with or without mods. I'm saying the problem is probably related to something with shaders in the base game.

[Monsto Brukes]

what the fuck is the fix for this.

 

everytime i do a clean install, i forget the fix and have to search for hours to find the actual fix. seems to take longer and longer each time.

[sbire]

export the facegendata from ck with the mod. esp active by pressing ctrl+ f4, that' s all .

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1343692-color-mismatch-facebody/page__p__20260722#entry20260722

 

the gray face bug exists since release of ck.

[zaraia]

export the facegendata from ck with the mod. esp active by pressing ctrl+ f4' date=' that' s all .

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1343692-color-mismatch-facebody/page__p__20260722#entry20260722

 

the gray face bug exists since release of ck.

[/quote']

 

Hi, thanks but I don't think we're talking about the same issue. The face is grey and discolored like in the pics in the original post, not brownish like I've seen with the CK bug. Besides this happens with a fresh install and no mods or CK installed.

[Geist]

I'm scratching my head at this, I recently created three vampire NPCs, all being of the vampire race and using either one or both of the new vampire textures.

 

Now I had the exact same problem when I created the first NPC, he was a dark elf, with warpaints from both breton and nord and he also had pale white skin. Now first I spawned him in the game his face was grey, he did not have the vampire bat-face either, but I had indeed exported the FaceGen.

 

I got it working eventually and went on to other things. After that I created another vampire NPC, an Imperial, but no problem there, the face came out just as I wanted it to.

 

Now however, on this third NPC an orc, the same problem occurs again and all three characters are loaded and only this orc has this skin problem. And this is just the texture, as scars and the vampiric distortion appear.

 

I believe the cause is the FaceGen data, there is something that just doesn't work right. I know it can be done to work right as I somehow got it to work last time, I just don't know what that is.

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

How long ago did you create them? Game update 1.9 recently broke all my followers (and all my other stuff too, it turned out), so I had to make new updated versions.

 

Do you have any mods which affect orcs specifically? It may be being caused by a load order issue - does it make any difference if you place the orc NPC's .esp somewhere else in the order? I have virtually no experience with orcs, or with vampires, but if it's ONLY affecting orcs, or orcs in vampire form specifically, it's where I'd start looking.

[Geist]

 

Do you have any mods which affect orcs specifically? It may be being caused by a load order issue - does it make any difference if you place the orc NPC's .esp somewhere else in the order? I have virtually no experience with orcs, or with vampires, but if it's ONLY affecting orcs, or orcs in vampire form specifically, it's where I'd start looking.

They are very resent, they were all created after good 'ol game breaker patch 1.9 was installed. I don't use any mods that could affect the faces on male characters and the load order is fine since I use BOSS.

 

This problem does not affect just orcs, it affects all vampires, but only the ones I created and even then it is only limited to one character.

The Dark Elf vampire character had this problem but I managed to fix it somehow and it is caused by the new Vampire heads.

 

But both the Imperial and Dark Elf Vampire have the right textures and they use the new heads, whilst the Orc does not. The issue lies with the FaceGen and the new heads, there is a solution, I just need to remeber what I did or keep working on it till I hit jackpot.

 

EDIT: I tested with creating a female character, adding "Female vampire NPC have human eyes" to the list.