hair and collisions with the head? And more!

[anjenthedog]

Long hair has always considered my female players' heads to be a non entity, so it passes right through it at every chance. I do have collisions models for several hair types, and I've built them, but they only apply to the body elements. 

 

How do I make the player head an "impermeable" element too? (I suppose "can I?" would be a better first question, now I think about it)

 

Ok there's a part two. (not as immersion breaking but a close second)

 

Hair also doesn't seem to respect the existence of apparel items. Is there some magic bodyslide/etc mojo I can apply to add buffer space when they're worn?

(ex: capes, cloaks, fur shoulder pieces, ponchos, etc, which lift the virtual shoulder, or thicken the virtual upper body...)

 

Edited March 20, 2024 by anjenthedog
more stuffs

[traison]

26 minutes ago, anjenthedog said:

Long hair has always considered my female players' heads to be a non entity, so it passes right through it at every chance.

 

Never seen this before. Looking at Dint99's hair pack that I have installed here, it does have collision meshes for the head so I suppose it is possible something like this would happen if the hair was improperly configured. In Dint99's pack, the head collision mesh is part of the hair mesh itself:

 

 

30 minutes ago, anjenthedog said:

Hair also doesn't seem to respect the existence of apparel items.

 

I find that a lot of (or perhaps all?) outfits I've downloaded come with collisions set to private. My understanding of this value is that it restricts collision to either the current physics preset file (ie. all shapes defined within that same file) or some other limited scope. So usually what I end up doing is setting the relevant shapes to public to enable collisions with everything else. I realize this could significantly affect performance when everything needs to consider everything else, but so far I haven't noticed anything.

[anjenthedog]

Hmmm maybe my copy of Dint is out of date.  I'll check. Oh... so head collision is handled by the hair's head reference model itself. I 'dint' know. 

 

38 minutes ago, traison said:

I find that a lot of (or perhaps all?) outfits I've downloaded come with collisions set to private. ... ... So usually what I end up doing is setting the relevant shapes to public to enable collisions with everything else

via SSEEdit or nifskope or? 

 

Edited March 20, 2024 by anjenthedog
the usual

[traison]

3 minutes ago, anjenthedog said:

via SSEEdit or nifskope or?

 

Notepad.

 

Using the Daughters of Dimitrescu outfit as an example, I set the skirt shape to public:

 <per-triangle-shape name="Skirt">
    <shared>public</shared>

 

Another thing I've noticed about oufits is that (at least according to my testing and understanding) everyone is using the no-collide-with-tag and can-collide-with-tag elements wrong. Very often you will see a mix of these 2 like in the Dimitrescu outfit:

 

<can-collide-with-tag>e1</can-collide-with-tag>
<no-collide-with-tag>e4</no-collide-with-tag>
<no-collide-with-tag>e5</no-collide-with-tag>
<no-collide-with-tag>e6</no-collide-with-tag>
<no-collide-with-tag>xx</no-collide-with-tag>
<can-collide-with-tag>ground</can-collide-with-tag>

 

This is like saying the outfit can ONLY collide with e1, it can not collide with e4, e5, e6 and xx and it can ONLY collide with ground. Which of these rules take precedence? Will the skirt only collide with ground? Or perhaps only with e1 and ground? Or will the whitelist (can-collide...) be ignored when a blacklist (no-collide...) element is found? This is another thing I clean up in all outfits I download:

 

<no-collide-with-tag>e4</no-collide-with-tag>
<no-collide-with-tag>e5</no-collide-with-tag>
<no-collide-with-tag>e6</no-collide-with-tag>
<no-collide-with-tag>xx</no-collide-with-tag>

 

[anjenthedog]

Ah, directly edit the associated hdtSkinnedMeshConfig files. ok. I mistakenly thought that the only associated xml for armors/clothing were the Bodyslide xml helpers

 

Heh... yes, I see. I'll try to keep the can-collide and no-collide logic confusion to a min.  Thanks.

[Bayman]

On 3/20/2024 at 9:57 PM, traison said:

 

Never seen this before. Looking at Dint99's hair pack that I have installed here, it does have collision meshes for the head so I suppose it is possible something like this would happen if the hair was improperly configured. In Dint99's pack, the head collision mesh is part of the hair mesh itself:

 

 

I have problems with hair clipping through the head using following mod:
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/43120

I was happy to found a mod that brings the KS-Runaway hairstyle with more strands of hair which moves so much better than the old Runaway hairstyle. How to tweak this?



One thing that bothers me even more are the unsightly spots on the top of the head. Any chance to fix the hair at this point?

[traison]

I'll refrain from downloading 450 MiB just to check some config files, so...

 

53 minutes ago, Bayman said:

How to tweak this?

 

Increase the margins of the head collision mesh. Edit: Also, its possible if the hair has a virtual collision mesh that it doesn't morph when you change facial features in RM. This means things like wide cheebones and other extreme features will always clip, unless the margins are adjusted to account for this.

 

53 minutes ago, Bayman said:

One thing that bothers me even more are the unsightly spots on the top of the head.

 

A couple of options there:

1. The head mesh you're using is slightly larger or just a different shape than the one the hair was made for. Like using a vanilla head hairstyle on HPH might do it.
2. Perhaps that's just how the hair was made. You way want to look into how to add a hair texture under the hair mesh. I'm fairly certain it can be done. Perhaps the vanilla hairstyles do this and could serve as an example.

 

Edit: Here's an example of a hairline head part:

 [00] Skyrim.esm (7CAB85A9) \ Head Part \ 000510F9 <HairFemaleNord12>

 [00] Skyrim.esm (7CAB85A9) \ Head Part \ 000510B6 <HairLineFemaleNord12>

Edited September 18, 2024 by traison