Is Skyrim doomed to always have the brawl bug of death?

[aslab]

I am playing with mods that give an option for a brawl. The problem is my brawls usually ended in a death. I tried the modern brawl bug fix with no help. I then decided to manually test my mods to see where the problem was coming from. I was intending to compile a list of mods that break the brawl mechanism and publish the list so others can see and add to it. The problem came when I realized how many foundation mods are causing the bug. The big offenders are mods that change the character, and Sexlab. So, has anybody got Sexlab, SMP physics, and other quest mods installed while enjoying the game without the brawl bug? I am almost ready to give up

[traison]

Hm, well there's some missing info I'm detecting immediately. Looking at the Modern Brawl Bug Fix mod, and specifically this line:

Quote

Any magic effect applied to either participant (no matter what it does) will cancel the brawl and cause the opponent to pull out their weapon.

 

This is not the whole truth, because:

1. I don't have the old brawl bugs fix (Edit: nor the modern one). Nor do I have issues brawling.
2. I'm fairly certain even in vanilla you always have at least one magic effect on you. Even if this was false, I know my own mods add 4 of them.

Edited November 18, 2022 by traison

[Tlam99]

Only active acting effects, like spells will count.

Effects on armor don't count, like enchanted gauntlets, heal over time on armor etc., knockback on armor.

My pc does more damage bare handed as as dagger and even this will not count.

[aslab]

6 hours ago, traison said:

Hm, well there's some missing info I'm detecting immediately. Looking at the Modern Brawl Bug Fix mod, and specifically this line:

 

This is not the whole truth, because:

1. I don't have the old brawl bugs fix (Edit: nor the modern one). Nor do I have issues brawling.
2. I'm fairly certain even in vanilla you always have at least one magic effect on you. Even if this was false, I know my own mods add 4 of them.

 

I’m on SE running nearly 800 active plugins. After disabling a couple hundred I got the brawl bug to go away without the modern brawl bug fix. I thought I found the couplet (“Uninterrupted Ethereal Form”, and “Uninterrupted Invisibility”) until I retried my whole load. The bug returned, I again disabled a bunch of plugins and discovered that many other mods were causing the bug too. Just to name a few, sexlab, Toys framework, and other less important mods caused the NPC to say "so you want a real fight" and bring out their weapon. For the most part I am able to conclude the fight with weapons and magic. I have a defeat mods and if the NPC is invincible, they get back up afterwards without carryover aggression, but it would be nice if I can complete the fight as a brawl. Thanks for letting me know that brawl works for other people. I don’t even have to actively hit the NPC to cause this bug I can start the brawl and run away. The bug will click in after 10-20 seconds

Edited November 19, 2022 by aslab

[Fotogen]

Most common cause for this are mods that have "cloak" spell/effect.

 

Sexlab framework doesn't have cloak spell. Sexlab framework doesn't even do anything until you trigger it.

4 hours ago, aslab said:

The bug returned, I again disabled a bunch of plugins and discovered that many other mods were causing the bug too. Just to name a few, sexlab,

You concluded nothing. It's most likely just one(1), not "many other".

 

Don't be lazy and continue with what you where doing, disable some mods. If it works, you know, that one of the those mods is a problem.

Continue. Now disable just half of the ones that are a problem. If bug comes back, you know, you disabled mods that are not a problem.

Now, disable the other half.

And then repeat until you find just one.

 

It doesn't even take long. With each pass, you reduce the number of mods by half. So: 800, 400, 200, 100, 50, 25, 12(13), 6, 3, 1(2), So 10 to 11 tests max.

 

[traison]

If we're hunting for the culprits now, wouldn't it be possible to slap a script into (presumably) the quest that contains the line "So you want a real fight"? If it is, see if the script can get a hold of the MGEF that triggered it, or take a chance with race conditions and see if there's a way to dump all MGEFs on the actor that thought you were cheating. With this all you'd have to do is punch someone in the face and wait for them to call you a cheater. ?

 

Edit: Oh this is easier than I thought, the entire brawl thing is handled by a script and not some fancy quest.

 

Edit again: Grab this script, and trigger a brawl based on the DGIntimidateQuest [QUST:00047AE6] quest. What this means in practice I do not know, I didn't trace the connections to this quest. Maybe try punching Benor in Morthal. It will print ">>> YOU WANT A REAL RIGHT?" in the papyrus log, followed by the spell formid. That will point you at the problem, assuming it is a spell.

 

Edit again: Original script is from the modern brawl bug fix mod.

DGIntimidateAliasScript.pex

Edited November 19, 2022 by traison

[aslab]

11 hours ago, traison said:

If we're hunting for the culprits now, wouldn't it be possible to slap a script into (presumably) the quest that contains the line "So you want a real fight"? If it is, see if the script can get a hold of the MGEF that triggered it, or take a chance with race conditions and see if there's a way to dump all MGEFs on the actor that thought you were cheating. With this all you'd have to do is punch someone in the face and wait for them to call you a cheater. ?

 

Edit: Oh this is easier than I thought, the entire brawl thing is handled by a script and not some fancy quest.

 

Edit again: Grab this script, and trigger a brawl based on the DGIntimidateQuest [QUST:00047AE6] quest. What this means in practice I do not know, I didn't trace the connections to this quest. Maybe try punching Benor in Morthal. It will print ">>> YOU WANT A REAL RIGHT?" in the papyrus log, followed by the spell formid. That will point you at the problem, assuming it is a spell.

 

Edit again: Original script is from the modern brawl bug fix mod.

DGIntimidateAliasScript.pex 2.1 kB · 0 downloads

I assume by slap the script in, I should use xEdit to find the line and attach the script to the line, at which point papyrus will print out a report when that line runs. Am I correct? I’m still new to the whole patching thing as this is going to be my first time using xEdit. I got the majority of my load order prefabbed from Wabbajack and built on top of it. Now I’m learning how to patch up my additional adds. By the way thanks for your help

 

I usually start the test fights with a mod called “Blind Rage Brawl Anyone”. Would that be OK, or will the script only work if I trigger “DGIntimidateQuest”?

[traison]

That is a vanilla script, no need to xEdit it in.

 

As for that brawl mod, this is what the mod description says:

Quote

The mod Uses the vanilla brawl system, the upside is it doesn't edit or conflict with any vanilla brawl quests or dialogue.

 

So, maybe? You'll see it in the log if it worked.

[aslab]

On 11/20/2022 at 2:21 AM, traison said:

That is a vanilla script, no need to xEdit it in.

 

As for that brawl mod, this is what the mod description says:

 

So, maybe? You'll see it in the log if it worked.

What program do I use to install your script? Over the weekend I learnt a lot about SSEedit, Synthesis, and enabled papyrus logging. I was hopping that through the process I would figure out what to do with your script. I have not downloaded CK and fear that I am going to need CK to run your scrip. I am hesitant to install CK as I downgraded back to 1.5.97. I worry about breaking other parts of the game while trying to get steams new CK to work with the popular CK tweaks. Anyways please let me know what program I need to use and if I need CK I may risk biting the bullet.

[traison]

Never inspected a mod before?

 

Using MO2:

1. Create a new directory under the mods directory.
2. Create a new scripts directory in this new mod.
3. Place pex file in scripts directory.
4. Hit the refresh button in MO2.
5. Enable mod.
6. Play.

[aslab]

2 hours ago, traison said:

Never inspected a mod before?

 

Using MO2:

1. Create a new directory under the mods directory.
2. Create a new scripts directory in this new mod.
3. Place pex file in scripts directory.
4. Hit the refresh button in MO2.
5. Enable mod.
6. Play.

WOW that did it. I fought 3 brawls in a row with out it turning into a real fight. I’m not sure how your diagnostic script solved the problem but it did.

 

Over the weekend I saw somebody talking about Skyrim running better with log output enabled. They were saying that when mod authors create their mods, they always have log output enabled. If the mod tries to produce a log output when log output is turned off, script hang-up can happen. So maybe calling the script to log may have got it to run again.

 

Thanks so much. I learnt a lot trying to figure out what program to use and now just like that brawls are fixed

[traison]

On 11/19/2022 at 2:05 PM, traison said:

Edit again: Original script is from the modern brawl bug fix mod.

 

That is why it "fixed it", but this just proves that the existing brawl bug fixes work, you just have load order issues. Remove my script and install the modern brawl bug fix (if you haven't already) then make sure its not getting overwritten.

[aslab]

9 hours ago, traison said:

 

That is why it "fixed it", but this just proves that the existing brawl bug fixes work, you just have load order issues. Remove my script and install the modern brawl bug fix (if you haven't already) then make sure its not getting overwritten.

I gave it some more testing and your file fixes my brawl bug while the modern brawl bug fix did not. Maybe post your fix on Nexus as other people have the same issue where the modern brawl bug fix doesn’t work for them. If your fix works for those, you can become the new brawl bug savior. I already had the modern brawl bug fix installed twice once as a standalone another came with “Summerset enchantment of skyrim”.

 

Here are 4 logs. Two of them have your fix (1^st with Summerset 3^rd without) and the other two are ran with modern brawl bug fix and not your fix. I moved modern brawl bug fix next to your fix for this testing so no overwrite differences. The line that jumps out on me is “[SLH_fctBodyShape]   Race change detected – aborting” which is printed right before combat starts.

 

If you want me to test this further Just let me know and I’ll be glad to help, Thanks for your help I’m sure more people would appreciate this fix.

Papyrus.1(with DGIntimidateAliasScript).log Papyrus.2(with Modern Brawl Bug Fix).log Papyrus.3(Take 2 with Modern Fix).log Papyrus.4 (with DGIntimidateAliasScript - disabled Brawl Bug &Summermyst ).log

[traison]

It's not my fix, all I did was add a Debug.Nofication line to print the spell that makes the NPC hostile. I downloaded the file from the modern brawl bug fix 5 minutes before that.