HDT Physics Extension Modding

[Monsto Brukes]

Its almost like the breast_02 bone has no damping to restrict the amount of bounce..

 

Another experiment is to try entering a cell where the infinite breasts occur then exit and re enter..

 

Im no wiz but i think it could be the fact that the cell loads first then the physics.. which could cause

the weird visual.

 

Yeah. And looking at it, the throbbing continues during the breast_02 craziness and it looks like breast01 weight painting.

[canderes]

Yeah it was fast and cheap weight painting lol. I'm still trying to solve the ik mirror issue so I can use 2 chains instead of one. It's likely that the pivot and matrix for each bone need to be changed; it is a pain in the ass to do this because changing the matrix affects the capsules directly. I am working on another script for that, but the matrix/object changes are making things difficult. Changing the constraints to ragdoll really limits the movement of those bones and I don't want to do that. HDT used functions in the sdk to limit impulse and dampening for this, but like I said, HCT does not provide any of that. There was a post on Intel somewhere saying that only the SDK can power constraints/create generic constraints/package data for havok, but I am no programmer and it would take forever to learn how to do that.

I put some heavy weight into painting those, so that's why it moves so ridiculously. I am not using the same bones for the breasts or butt as skeleton.hkx for the females because I want to make these operate completely independent of the rig for automation of secondary movement. Those breasts are rigged like this:

 

Using only one chain of bones for both breasts in the center. Same with the butt. I was planning on having two meshes/bodies for females including ones that already exist which could be used by animators to animate each breast/butt cheek by keyframe, and the other for when the player/actor doesn't require detailed animation (mid, low detail idles) which would be driven by the capsules.

 

 

The only other solution could be using maya/blender, but so far none of the things I exported (.bullet) work and all have ctd.

 

UNPB25HDT_Max2011_HCT2012.2.zip

[1crash007]

Candares is the breast_02 supposed to be a nipple bone or is there a separate one..

 

I would help but im only experienced with blender

 

The excessive weight on a small bone could cause the craziness..

 

 

[canderes]

Nipple bone, with a tiny amount of weight (boobs:0.048~0.1, nipples and top of breasts: 0.048~0.2), I don't remember how much exactly since I was just putting in a range a values to see what looked ok, but I don't think it will matter anymore because I found out what was causing the two chain version to act funny. There were rigid spheres for each of the breasts/nipples and using them with a spring would cause them to self collide because the spheres would all swing back into the body and strike together. I am trying to think of a way to keep this from happening without completely removing the spring. More than one constraint can be applied to a joint, but the plugin doesn't seem to know what to do when there's more than one in the same XML. The 7-27 version does let you use more than one XML though, but I haven't bothered checking if it could handle two constraints on the same instance of bodies; likely it will just be stuck in a static pose as if there were double the constraints in one XML. The constraint filters don't help much either, since you can't make debris bodies not hit debris bodies; they are in the same group so there's no way to stop the collisions. Phantom/ghost bodies are probably used for preventing self collision, but aren't supported by the plugin.

[Vioxsis]

Canderes i ran i to another problem and hope you can point out what I'm doing wrong again.

 

I have exported an .xml and the .nif edited them both made the esp and loaded it in game,

but nothing moves, its just static.

 

The hdtPhysicsExtensions.log has this entry WARNING: Invalid havok serialize file : DATA\MESHES\Test\test.xml 

So i have re-exported the xml and each time its the same outcome.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/4armr2zmklxpd4u/Test.7z

 

The nif, xml and esp.

 

 

And thank you for the help last time and for making the scripts and video.  

[Monsto Brukes]

Canderes i ran i to another problem and hope you can point out what I'm doing wrong again.

 

I have exported an .xml and the .nif edited them both made the esp and loaded it in game,

but nothing moves, its just static.

 

The hdtPhysicsExtensions.log has this entry WARNING: Invalid havok serialize file : DATA\MESHES\Test\test.xml 

So i have re-exported the xml and each time its the same outcome.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/4armr2zmklxpd4u/Test.7z

 

The nif, xml and esp.

 

 

And thank you for the help last time and for making the scripts and video.  

 

Yes. Thank you.

 

Vioxsis if you decide to do something original in this vein, I'm all in to attempt to texturize (=

[canderes]

Vioxsis the XML attached to the nif lists testEnd as a rigid body and has a constraint linked to it too, but the nif does not have testEnd as a bone, only TestKeyframe, testDebris are included. Check the first create skeleton filter and make sure that it is included. Other than that everything looks fine.

[Vioxsis]

Testend was there, the first few tests had all of the bones in the nif.

It was removed in my last test export while i was in nifskope (spells>optimise>remove bogus nodes)

just to check it was really weighted to the new bones.

 

 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/a5k1d1oygkcoii0/Test2.7z

I have re-exported the xml and nif (left all the bones intact) and its still the same, like its completely rigged to the head. 

 

 

[canderes]

Your nif is missing bsdismemberskin modifier; I don't know what the value is for amulets or necklaces, but that's probably what you want to use. Check the creation kit and make sure that same slot (biped) is taken for amulets/necklace or whatever its supposed to be.

[Vioxsis]

http://www.mediafire.com/download/27gr7kpp5ifr9hr/test.nif

 

Sadly not, still the same outcome.

 

And i don't normally add a bsdismemberskin unless i plan on abusing it.

 

Its using slot 42 circlet in the test.

 

 

[canderes]

Just fixed it. I rebuilt the constraints and everything worked fine. Still not sure exactly what caused it though. What version of the 3ds max plugin are you using? I had to use circlet accessories as the bsdismember slot, your's shows skyrim circlet or something else. I have used two different versions of the exporter and they have different names for the slots under bsdismember (2010/2011 exporters, figment, theru). I don't know if that caused it to stay static. The movement is stiff, but using 2+ ragdoll constraints/joints instead of hinges will probably make it look fluid.

new test.zip

[Vioxsis]

I'm using Theru's 2012 x64 build. Figment's kept breaking my vertex normals on export so i don't have or use it any more.  

 

I did use rag doll constraints the first time but the 2nd and 3rd time i used hinge to keep it simple, and too not have to worry about editing a lot of parameters.

I'm just trying to get it to work, before i do something more complex.

 

circlet accessories 142 circlet 42 can both be considered the same, 142 disables something else though (probably self shadowing like 131) 

 

I'll try redoing it again, i must of done something wrong/stupid somewhere, keeping extra attention when doing the pivots.

 

[zax]

Not sure what kind of progress you guys are doing here, but one, possibly offtopic question: will I be able to SendAnimEvent() to animate boobs, when everything is done, in the same way as SOS works, or its different kind of mod?

[canderes]

No it is all handled by the plugin. This would just be useful for secondary movement like on clothing. You would want to stick to keyframe animation on the existing tbbp bodies for detailed animations, but you could use this in place for low detail/priority animations. Say you wanted to make an idle and still wanted some jiggle/rotation, but didn't want to keyframe for every single bone, all you would need to do is add bones/rigid bodies/constraints only for the things you want to be dynamic and then HDTphysicsextensions handles the rest.

I'll add more/shorter videos later. I still need to show how to use the wheel/spring constraints. I'm still not sure if rotation can be controlled to keep something moving in one direction only.

[Vioxsis]

I think i found my problem, comparing the xml you made to mine (after using yours with the nif i exported and seeing it work in game) i noticed in notepad++ that yours had a length of 28315 and mine 27655.

 

so combing through i found that mine had 0 after collisionFilterInfo and yours had a 5 digit number, and that was the only differences. 

 

but i can't make a xml with it set to anything but 0.. 

[canderes]

The collision filter shouldn't matter because the bodies don't touch or rub together. The maxscript shortened the rigid bodies to keep that from happening because it causes stuttering. I was having a problem where the debris bodies were touching with the keyframe and it would cause it to move slide back and instantly forward to keep them from touching. I never setup the collision filter, but I'll take a look at it again and list what filters I used to create the XML.

 

I think I found the problem with your export config for HCT: under the Create Rigid Bodies filter uncheck all of the boxes at the bottom, under Create Constraints use Old method, and under Create Ragdoll uncheck all the boxes at the bottom.

 

 

9/8/2013
 

Ok the solution for this was to set the contentsversion of the XML  to hk_2012.2.0-r1. If you use a version newer than hk_2012.2.0-r1 to export XMLs you must change the second line of the XML to contentsversion="hk_2012.2.0-r1" or the HDT plugin will not load the XML.

[canderes]

I've had a look at the break undies framework and think HDT can make things a little more realistic. If you add a chain of bones and make all the rigid bodies on the chain debris instead of having one being keyframe quality to fix an object to an actor that piece will actually fall due to gravity. It's nothing fancy, and clips through the ground but technically we could use it to simulate other things like bullet shells, sparks, or broken fragments. It isn't something I have experimented with too much, but it works. There are fixed constraints which I have only used once or twice, but they are breakable. I still can't say whether they can be broken in skyrim but it is just  a heads up. I'd imagine it was the way they implemented breaking armor in soul calibur, but who knows if that is due to constraints or havok destruction.

[HydrogensaysHDT]

I've had a look at the break undies framework and think HDT can make things a little more realistic. If you add a chain of bones and make all the rigid bodies on the chain debris instead of having one being keyframe quality to fix an object to an actor that piece will actually fall due to gravity. It's nothing fancy, and clips through the ground but technically we could use it to simulate other things like bullet shells, sparks, or broken fragments. It isn't something I have experimented with too much, but it works. There are fixed constraints which I have only used once or twice, but they are breakable. I still can't say whether they can be broken in skyrim but it is just  a heads up. I'd imagine it was the way they implemented breaking armor in soul calibur, but who knows if that is due to constraints or havok destruction.

 

I compiled the Havok version with latest Havok SDK(2013.1.0-r1).

I'm not sure if you can access Baidu disk....

http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=3435982268&uk=2619899231#dir/path=%2FhdtPhysicsExtensions

[s.eden]

Nice to read they are progress and new ideas as to further implement that feature.

Will be tracking at the interest is promising by now.

[Monsto Brukes]

 

I've had a look at the break undies framework and think HDT can make things a little more realistic. If you add a chain of bones and make all the rigid bodies on the chain debris instead of having one being keyframe quality to fix an object to an actor that piece will actually fall due to gravity. It's nothing fancy, and clips through the ground but technically we could use it to simulate other things like bullet shells, sparks, or broken fragments. It isn't something I have experimented with too much, but it works. There are fixed constraints which I have only used once or twice, but they are breakable. I still can't say whether they can be broken in skyrim but it is just  a heads up. I'd imagine it was the way they implemented breaking armor in soul calibur, but who knows if that is due to constraints or havok destruction.

 

I compiled the Havok version with latest Havok SDK(2013.1.0-r1).

I'm not sure if you can access Baidu disk....

http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=3435982268&uk=2619899231#dir/path=%2FhdtPhysicsExtensions

 

 

I can. I have missed a couple of versions but I will add it to the support thread.

 

Can you please tell us what is new or changed in this version? 

[Monsto Brukes]

 

 

 

 

Quoted to get your attention (=

 

I just had a thought: Does 7-22 physics movement work based on skeletal movement in relative to the world, or is it based on skeletal movement relative to itself?

 

I've not been able to follow but about half of this conversation and what canderes has said, but it's a question that may help answer questions of physics movement of danglies on a circlet. The head doesn't move at all ever relative to the skeleton. A no-bbp animation moves VERY little; more with jump and sneak/squat (because the animation moves relative to itself?)

 

Vioxsis what would happen if you made that circlet attach to the wrist? Giving it it to a follower to put on their head would be a cheap test. Followers have all kinds of head animations.

 

Last thing:

Can the xml files (or any text editable file) be changed to adjust any of the properties of physics movement? If so, what would I look for?

[canderes]

Thank you Hydrogen. I didn't think you were still updating the havok version because of crashing. I will eventually move onto maya, and blender but I just want to get the havok workflow set in place because it is probably exactly the same in all hct supported software.

 

monsto

Yeah you can change constraints and some properties in the XML. Restitution and mass\impulse are probably what want to edit; in the files you will have decimal numbers, 0.0.... to 3 for mass\impulse, to get the actual mass in kg you go 1/n (the decimal number listed). Angles are in +/- radians if you want to change the constraints, but I wouldn't recommend doing that in the text file because of the parent/child constraint system havok has, they are pretty easy to setup in 3ds max after making a few chains and experimenting with the preview tool.

 

For the undies thing what I wanted to say was that it was easy to split edges of a mesh into quads and have them skinned onto extra bones you add to make parts of clothing flail around like torn fabric. Until someone figures out how they did it for the vampire lord cloak its actually pretty stable because the geometry doesn't get stuck inside the actors. You can set limits for the amount of movement allowed, so things can be made to swing/rotate way from the character and back, but only as far as you want them.

I don't know if anyone has already tried this, I have seen the cumshot object and some weapons have some simple animations tacked on, but you can add bones to non-body based objects as long as you don't skin them. That was even before this plugin came out, but the only thing you could do was parent objects to the bones. It was a good alternative to controllers I think because you could animate the bones and export them with the nif. I don't mess with controllers much, maybe once or twice, but you could have a root bone, however many bones you wanted attached, animate the bones and link visible objects to the bones.

 

I think some really robust spells could be setup with other constraints, sliding and wheel, but I haven't taken the time to play with those yet. The actor stuff will come first, then the spells, and if gnd objects turn out to be stable then that comes last. The one thing I wonder though is if it would work for the items shown in your inventory. It would make more sense to just have those be static models, but its worth a look to see if they are functional I guess.

 

The movement is relative to itself, but simple collisions with other actors and the work seem to work pretty well. The only thing it can't do is ground collisions, so if part of a mesh is all debris type then it will fall out of the world, BUT I don't see why you cant add bones and rig to gnd objects. I did think about it before for ground collisions. Know how clothes are folded up and all stiff right? I thought of testing gnd object with an actor mesh (shirt object), flattening it, adding bones to gnd mesh, and rigging the arms separately from the torso so it could be like a real shirt and have flappy sleeves when you pick it up. I haven't tried it yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. It just takes a while to setup correctly but it would probably give a nice result.

[Monsto Brukes]

 

I've had a look at the break undies framework and think HDT can make things a little more realistic. If you add a chain of bones and make all the rigid bodies on the chain debris instead of having one being keyframe quality to fix an object to an actor that piece will actually fall due to gravity. It's nothing fancy, and clips through the ground but technically we could use it to simulate other things like bullet shells, sparks, or broken fragments. It isn't something I have experimented with too much, but it works. There are fixed constraints which I have only used once or twice, but they are breakable. I still can't say whether they can be broken in skyrim but it is just  a heads up. I'd imagine it was the way they implemented breaking armor in soul calibur, but who knows if that is due to constraints or havok destruction.

 

I compiled the Havok version with latest Havok SDK(2013.1.0-r1).

I'm not sure if you can access Baidu disk....

http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=3435982268&uk=2619899231#dir/path=%2FhdtPhysicsExtensions

 

 

Something I neglected to say after this release:

Thank you for your work!

 

I didn't think you were still working on it, but I'm glad to see progress.

[canderes]

I have a video ready for spring constraints. This is shorter than the last one, but you should know what I did in the other one before watching this.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxmxrjkPIlo

 

 

sevbreastrig.zip

[HydrogensaysHDT]

I have a video ready for spring constraints. This is shorter than the last one, but you should know what I did in the other one before watching this.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxmxrjkPIlo

 

hkpStiffSpringConstraint

or

hkpSpringDamperConstraintMotor

?