Performance Hit using SSAO normal?

[Nova eXelon]

Hi,

 

so I downloaded ENB and sometimes I have flickering shadows, but only on certain day times or certain places (not on flora but on doors or walls). Didn't bother me that much. But now I wanted to know more about it and turns out, I can solve it by turning SSAO to Full in ENB (or through nvidia inspector: High Quality). Any other setting won't solve the flickering.

 

But now to my question:

 

Let's say on a certain place I get about 90fps without SSAO. With SSAO it drops to 40fps.

 

Is that normal?

 

Btw: Changing the settings to lower quality SSAO through the ENB INI file doesn't bring much FPS. About 5 - 10 even with real bad locking SSAO.

 

I have the original Bethesda High Res Textures installed and changed shadow maps to 4096. Max settings through ingame menus.

1920x1080 without AA.

 

System is a i5 760 @ 4.0Ghz + GTX480AMP + 8GB Ram.

 

It just seems to me that dropping from 90 to 40 is a little too much. I mean how does everyone else do it? Does everyone have a GTX680 or are they targeting 30fps?

 

Thanks and

Near-Happy-New-Year!

[DeltaD36]

Hi' date='

 

so I downloaded ENB and sometimes I have flickering shadows, but only on certain day times or certain places (not on flora but on doors or walls). Didn't bother me that much. But now I wanted to know more about it and turns out, I can solve it by turning SSAO to Full in ENB (or through nvidia inspector: High Quality). Any other setting won't solve the flickering.

 

But now to my question:

 

Let's say on a certain place I get about 90fps without SSAO. With SSAO it drops to 40fps.

 

Is that normal?

 

Btw: Changing the settings to lower quality SSAO through the ENB INI file doesn't bring much FPS. About 5 - 10 even with real bad locking SSAO.

 

I have the original Bethesda High Res Textures installed and changed shadow maps to 4096. Max settings through ingame menus.

1920x1080 without AA.

 

System is a i5 760 @ 4.0Ghz + GTX480AMP + 8GB Ram.

 

It just seems to me that dropping from 90 to 40 is a little too much. I mean how does everyone else do it? Does everyone have a GTX680 or are they targeting 30fps?

 

Thanks and

Near-Happy-New-Year!

[/quote']

 

90 FPS?? Hell, I'd be happy just to get 30 anywhere without SSAO >>

or an ENB.

Umm... I'd say that it's the ENB you have. Have you tried an ENB that doesn't have SSAO? I'd assume since it is indeed an ENB that it would require good qaulity rather than performance, unless the ENB is specked for performance. What ENB are you using? And check if there are any incompatiblities or people with common problems in the comments.

 

It may also be aa mod confliting with your ENB. I'm not an expert with these kinds of issues, but I would assume that a mod having to do with shadowing or such would cause that issue.

 

Perhaps someone with a larger knowledge of this issue could shed more light than I. xD

[Nova eXelon]

Well I've tried alot ENB's available on Nexus but they are all reacting the same. Any SSAO setting other then Highest Quality gives me the flickering shadows. So yes I can have ENB with 90fps, but without SSAO I get flickering.

 

Today on the other hand I found out that there is a newer version of ENB available (12.12.12) but not all have adopted to that yet, so I missed that.

 

With the package from the ENB forums I can leave SSAO deactivated and have no flickering! However it seems like it is not really suitable for Skyrim because at night - even with brightness turned to lowest - it is not night anymore. I don't need any torches or whatever. I can perfectly see everything.

 

The ENB "The Goddess ENB Configuration v2" uses the 12.12.12 too (and nights are dark, yay!) but here I fall from 90fps to 30fps without SSAO active. But if I use the INI from the ENB forums together with this, I fall from 90fps to 60fps, which I'm targeting anyway.

 

So for now the problem with ENB and flickering shadows is solved, since with 12.12.12 I can leave SSAO off and have no flickering.

 

My initial question remains: Is a drop of ~50% in FPS in Skyrim normal, for a GTX480AMP?

 

In no other game I have I fall that much in fps.

[Guest]

Dude, with enb on and all the add ons active (dof,ssao,etc)I get an fps drop from ~45 to ~15 in outside areas and even more inside towns,so with your hardwares performance you should be more than happy.

[Nova eXelon]

Well I get the heavy drop in fps even without ENB. Just activating SSAO through nvidia inspector is enough.......

 

But I get the idea.

[BSnake]

I had a PNY GTX 460 at stock speeds before upgrading to an EVGA GTX 660 Superclocked. Back then, I got about 28 FPS in Whiterun using Superb ENB and SSAO turned off. I'm not sure how you managed to get 90 FPS with a GTX 480 and an ENB preset turned on; that's pretty crazy. I'm guessing you were in an interior cell while testing? If not, your ENB was turned off or installed improperly.

 

I was curious about ENB's performance impact, so I ran a quick test. In the Drunken Huntsman, I now get the following:

 

ENB off: 111 FPS

ENB on, SSAO disabled: 79 FPS

ENB on, SSAO fast mode: 61 FPS

[wrender27]

The problem I see is that most ENB settings can go above an beyond what any card or cards can handle. Right now I'm using TrueVision ENB and if I mess with the ssao in the enb customizer I can make to where im getting 4fps lol so there is no cap it would seem. If I tinker with the settings enough on any enb I can get them around 40fps outside and cap at 60fps in doors and this is with a decent amount of ssao on. It really all depends on what your hardware can handle as to how far you can go with your ssao settings. I do not see a reason to ever go above 60fps or turn off the vsync to do so because no matter what it will lead to problems in game down the road from screen flickering to clutter and ragdolls flying all over the place if you get even close to them lol. Skyrim's engine is very touchy in that aspect and was made to be tinkered with inside those parameters Hope that sheds some light for you

[chan]

50 FPS drop is a lot. 10-15 is normal. You must have SizeScale or SourceTexturesScale to high, maybe 1.0 or higher. Make them 0.5~0.25 and see if FPS is better.

 

Use the new ENB binary. You can tweak in game using GUI. New ENB binary doesn't need hardware AA, or AF. You disable both of these, and see a very large performance gain.

 

Enable AF inside enbseries.ini and enable AA with SweetFX or FXAAinjector through proxy .dll

 

Example of GUI:

 

 

[Nova eXelon]

I'm not sure how you managed to get 90 FPS with a GTX 480 and an ENB preset turned on; that's pretty crazy. I'm guessing you were in an interior cell while testing?

90fps was just a random number I got somewhere in Skyrim. Obviously I searched for an area' date=' where I got high fps to show the heavy difference.

Turns out the screenshot function in Skyrim doesn't capture FRAPS, so you have to take my word for it:

This is basic Skyrim @ 1920x1080 without any AA or AF. In this shot I have 119fps.

 

[img']http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2209/basicskyrim.jpg[/img]

 

Same shot with just SSAO through nvidia Inspector. No ENB. 38fps! Is that normal??? That's what I want to know!

 

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/822 PureENB no SSAO and therefor flickering. 61fps

 

 

The new 121212. I'm still want to tweak it (too colorfull), but didn't have the time atm. 71fps

 

 

So in this shot it's even more evident that SSAO alone cuts my fps for like 70%. This together with ENB and I crawl at 25fps or something.

 

 

I do not see a reason to ever go above 60fps or turn off the vsync to do so because no matter what it will lead to problems in game down the road from screen flickering to clutter and ragdolls flying all over the place if you get even close to them lol.

I'm targeting vsyned 60fps anyway. Just turned off to have a better look at the actual fps drop.

50 FPS drop is a lot. 10-15 is normal. You must have SizeScale or SourceTexturesScale to high' date=' maybe 1.0 or higher. Make them 0.5~0.25 and see if FPS is better.[/quote']

I didn't do much with the new 121212 as of yet (no time) but with the old one I could very well make SSAO ugly looking but the fps gain was about 5 - 10. Not worth it.

Also I don't use AA or AF at all.

[chan]

Those settings are in the enbseries.ini file that every ENB uses. What are your settings?

[Nova eXelon]

Those settings are in the enbseries.ini file that every ENB uses

Yeah I know. As I said' date=' at one time I made SSAO really bad looking. With the lowest settings possible just to see the fps gain. And it wasn't worth it.

 

The 121212 has much more settings and I did not have the time to look through it. The package I downloaded is from here, and these are the INI settings:

 

 

[PROXY]

EnableProxyLibrary=false

InitProxyFunctions=true

ProxyLibrary=other_d3d9.dll

 

[GLOBAL]

AdditionalConfigFile=userconfig.ini

UseEffect=true

 

[FIX]

ForceFakeVideocard=false

FixGameBugs=false

FixParallaxBugs=false

ForceSingleCoreCPU=false

IgnoreThreadManagement=false

IgnoreThreadPriority=false

AntiBSOD=false

IgnoreLoadingScreen=true

 

[GAME]

SpeedHack=true

 

[MULTIHEAD]

ForceVideoAdapterIndex=false

VideoAdapterIndex=0

 

[LIMITER]

WaitBusyRenderer=false

EnableFPSLimit=false

FPSLimit=30.0

 

[iNPUT]

//back

KeyReadConfig=8

//shift

KeyCombination=16

//f12

KeyUseEffect=123

//home

KeyFPSLimit=36

//num / 106

KeyShowFPS=106

//insert

KeyScreenshot=45

 

[ENGINE]

ForceAnisotropicFiltering=true

MaxAnisotropy=16

SkipShaderOptimization=false

 

[EFFECT]

UseOriginalPostProcessing=false

UseOriginalObjectsProcessing=false

EnableBloom=true

EnableAdaptation=true

EnableAmbientOcclusion=false

EnableDepthOfField=false

EnableDetailedShadow=true

EnableSunRays=true

EnableSkyLighting=false

EnableReflection=false

 

[bLOOM]

Quality=1

AmountDay=0.25

AmountNight=0.25

AmountInterior=0.25

BlueShiftAmountDay=0.3

BlueShiftAmountNight=1.0

BlueShiftAmountInterior=1.0

ContrastDay=1.0

ContrastNight=1.0

ContrastInterior=1.0

 

[CAMERAFX]

LenzReflectionIntensityDay=1.0

LenzReflectionIntensityNight=1.0

LenzReflectionIntensityInterior=1.0

LenzReflectionPowerDay=2.0

LenzReflectionPowerNight=2.0

LenzReflectionPowerInterior=2.0

 

[sSAO_SSIL]

UseIndirectLighting=true

UseComplexIndirectLighting=false

SamplingQuality=2

SamplingRange=0.3

FadeFogRangeDay=2.0

FadeFogRangeNight=2.0

FadeFogRangeInterior=2.0

SizeScale=0.35

SourceTexturesScale=0.35

FilterQuality=1

AOAmount=1.5

ILAmount=4.0

AOMixingType=2

AOIntensity=1.0

AOType=0

 

[NIGHTDAY]

DetectorDefaultDay=false

DetectorLevelDay=0.65

DetectorLevelNight=0.25

DetectorLevelCurve=2.0

 

[ADAPTATION]

ForceMinMaxValues=false

AdaptationSensitivity=0.2

AdaptationTime=0.4

AdaptationMin=0.1

AdaptationMax=100.0

 

[ENVIRONMENT]

DirectLightingIntensityDay=4.0

DirectLightingIntensityNight=1.0

DirectLightingIntensityInterior=1.0

DirectLightingCurveDay=1.0

DirectLightingCurveNight=1.0

DirectLightingCurveInterior=1.0

DirectLightingDesaturationDay=0.0

DirectLightingDesaturationNight=0.0

DirectLightingDesaturationInterior=0.0

 

SpecularAmountMultiplierDay=1.0

SpecularAmountMultiplierNight=1.0

SpecularAmountMultiplierInterior=1.0

SpecularPowerMultiplierDay=1.0

SpecularPowerMultiplierNight=1.0

SpecularPowerMultiplierInterior=1.0

SpecularFromLightDay=0.0

SpecularFromLightNight=0.0

SpecularFromLightInterior=0.0

 

AmbientLightingIntensityDay=1.0

AmbientLightingIntensityNight=1.0

AmbientLightingIntensityInterior=1.0

AmbientLightingCurveDay=1.0

AmbientLightingCurveNight=1.0

AmbientLightingCurveInterior=1.0

AmbientLightingDesaturationDay=0.0

AmbientLightingDesaturationNight=0.0

AmbientLightingDesaturationInterior=0.0

 

PointLightingIntensityDay=2.0

PointLightingIntensityNight=2.0

PointLightingIntensityInterior=1.0

PointLightingCurveDay=1.0

PointLightingCurveNight=1.0

PointLightingCurveInterior=1.0

PointLightingDesaturationDay=0.0

PointLightingDesaturationNight=0.0

PointLightingDesaturationInterior=0.0

 

FogColorMultiplierDay=0.6

FogColorMultiplierNight=0.3

FogColorMultiplierInterior=1.0

FogColorCurveDay=1.0

FogColorCurveNight=1.0

FogColorCurveInterior=1.0

 

ColorPowDay=1.7

ColorPowNight=1.7

ColorPowInterior=1.7

 

[sKY]

Enable=true

DisableWrongSkyMath=true

 

StarsIntensity=1.0

StarsCurve=1.0

 

AuroraBorealisIntensity=1.0

AuroraBorealisCurve=1.5

 

CloudsIntensityDay=2.0

CloudsIntensityNight=0.1

CloudsIntensityInterior=1.0

CloudsCurveDay=2.0

CloudsCurveNight=1.5

CloudsCurveInterior=1.0

CloudsDesaturationDay=0.0

CloudsDesaturationNight=0.0

CloudsDesaturationInterior=0.0

 

GradientIntensityDay=1.0

GradientIntensityNight=1.0

GradientIntensityInterior=1.0

GradientDesaturationDay=0.0

GradientDesaturationNight=0.0

GradientDesaturationInterior=0.0

 

GradientTopIntensityDay=2.0

GradientTopIntensityNight=0.03

GradientTopIntensityInterior=1.0

GradientTopCurveDay=1.0

GradientTopCurveNight=1.0

GradientTopCurveInterior=1.0

 

GradientMiddleIntensityDay=3.0

GradientMiddleIntensityNight=0.05

GradientMiddleIntensityInterior=1.0

GradientMiddleCurveDay=1.0

GradientMiddleCurveNight=1.0

GradientMiddleCurveInterior=1.0

 

GradientHorizonIntensityDay=4.0

GradientHorizonIntensityNight=0.08

GradientHorizonIntensityInterior=1.0

GradientHorizonCurveDay=1.0

GradientHorizonCurveNight=1.0

GradientHorizonCurveInterior=1.0

 

SunIntensity=5.0

SunDesaturation=0.0

SunCoronaIntensity=15.0

SunCoronaCurve=1.0

SunCoronaDesaturation=0.0

 

MoonIntensity=1.0

MoonCurve=2.0

MoonDesaturation=0.0

CloudsEdgeClamp=0.5

CloudsEdgeIntensity=8.0

 

[OBJECT]

SubSurfaceScatteringMultiplierDay=0.3

SubSurfaceScatteringMultiplierNight=0.5

SubSurfaceScatteringMultiplierInterior=1.0

SubSurfaceScatteringPowerDay=1.0

SubSurfaceScatteringPowerNight=1.0

SubSurfaceScatteringPowerInterior=1.0

 

[LIGHTSPRITE]

IntensityDay=1.0

IntensityNight=1.0

IntensityInterior=1.0

CurveDay=1.5

CurveNight=1.5

CurveInterior=1.0

 

[WINDOWLIGHT]

Intensity=10.0

Curve=1.0

 

[VOLUMETRICFOG]

IntensityDay=1.0

IntensityNight=1.0

IntensityInterior=1.0

CurveDay=1.0

CurveNight=2.0

CurveInterior=1.0

 

[FIRE]

IntensityDay=3.0

IntensityNight=7.0

IntensityInterior=1.0

CurveDay=2.0

CurveNight=2.0

CurveInterior=1.0

 

[colorCORRECTION]

UsePaletteTexture=true

Brightness=1.0

GammaCurve=1.0

 

[sHADOW]

ShadowCastersFix=false

ShadowQualityFix=true

DetailedShadowQuality=1

UseBilateralShadowFilter=true

ShadowFilterQuality=2

ShadowBlurRange=4.0

 

[DEPTHOFFIELD]

FadeTime=0.1

 

[RAYS]

SunRaysMultiplier=0.4

 

[sKYLIGHTING]

Quality=1

FilterQuality=2

AmbientMinLevel=0.2

 

[REFLECTION]

Quality=1

FilterQuality=2

FilterBluriness=0.1

SizeScale=0.75

SourceTexturesScale=0.35

Amount=1.0

Power=1.0

 

Problem here however is that it's too bright at night. Even with lowest brightness settings.

So I was getting a little frustrated and installed Sweet ENB (no flickering here, but really bad fps) and used the INI file above with it.

The result is the candy-looking screenshot above. But no flickering and nights are really dark now.

 

So if you can help me to ether get rid of the candy-looking Skyrim or getting nights actually dark, I would be really thankful.

 

Btw I don't care for SSAO. I just wanted to make the really blend looking Skyrim a little more pretty to look at. For me ENB does that very well without SSAO, but all versions prior to 121212 introduced shadow flickering without SSAO set to high quality (not even medium was enough).

And that's where my problem started.......

 

Oh and .............. HAPPY New Year!!

[chan]

You have SSAO off in the above config.

 

SSAO is different now in 12x and up binary, I don't care for it as much as in 119.

 

Two things you can try to do...

in enbeffect.fx file, edit the postprocess brightness, or, in the enbseries.ini change the adaption values.

 

This ENB,

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/18941

Has this enbeffect.fx file in it.

http://code.google.com/p/mole-studios-project/source/browse/branches/matso-modding-center/MATSO+2/enbeffect.fx?r=370

 

Line 12 tells the file which setting to use for post processing. Post processing parameters are defined below at lines 28, 38, 63 and 69. The file is using 2, and it has day/night separation for settings.

 

Try that enbeffect.fx file, and if you don't like the settings for night, change the values at lines 50, 51, 52.

[Nova eXelon]

The Opethfeldt6 ENB has the same problem as SweetFX: Very poor performance even without SSAO. About 40fps where I got 71fps before.

 

What else is there to use up so much power?

 

Also tried lowering brightness via Adaption values. There has to be more that changes the light at nights. Even using the values from Opethfeldt6 it's still very well lit.

 

This is 01:00am in front of the Dark Brotherhood:

 

 

Who needs torches It's even raining, so no sun, moon or stars.

 

EDIT:

OK, scratch it! In the package I downloaded there is no enbpalette.bmp included. That's why the Adaption values didn't do much. Now I have dark nights - yay!

On to more testing..........

[chan]

You must have SSAO off on your graphic card and in Skyrim options. Only enable it with ENB.

 

I have used both Opeth and SweetFX together (I use sfx for AA) and get over 60fps in places with SSAO off. Only 10-15fps drop with SSAO on.

 

The only things you have on are bloom, adaptation, shadows and sky. Turn them off one by one and see what makes it dark. Probably the bloom is too high.

[Nova eXelon]

OK I really appreciate your effort to help me but lets stop here now.

 

I can't get ENB to work with decent frames or with looking weird or with bright nights or whatever.

 

The only ENB with good fps is the package I got from enbdev.com - here however I have bright nights. Dropping the enbpalette.bmp from Opethfeldt in it makes nights so dark on the other hand I can't even see with a torch (almost).

 

With the Opethfeldt ENB itself I have 51fps with the "Performance" preset

Screenshot now with FRAPS.

 

 

And basic Skyrim @ 1920x1080 no AA/AF/SSAO

 

 

Maybe I should have more fps with this, but I don't and since I have "wasted" more then 10h on two days now, I give up.

 

Again, thank you.

[wrender27]

I have to ask if anyone has left their AA & AF on and seen an increase in quality ? If I turn mine off and force it through the ENB it looks worse for some reason. Same with shadows, I have to keep my settings maxed and I mess with the shadow settings a little bit in the Prefs.ini and I can get good shadows near and far. Biggest thing I noticed is if I let the ENB force my settings I have to almost be standing in front of an object for all of its details to load.. Idk I truly feel it all depends on what kind of system you are running as to how you need to tweak and ENB setting for your PC to react comfortable with it

[chan]

I have to ask if anyone has left their AA & AF on and seen an increase in quality ? If I turn mine off and force it through the ENB it looks worse for some reason. Same with shadows' date=' I have to keep my settings maxed and I mess with the shadow settings a little bit in the Prefs.ini and I can get good shadows near and far. Biggest thing I noticed is if I let the ENB force my settings I have to almost be standing in front of an object for all of its details to load.. Idk I truly feel it all depends on what kind of system you are running as to how you need to tweak and ENB setting for your PC to react comfortable with it

[/quote']

 

Depends on the ENB binary.

If you use 119 or previous, then you should force AA and AF through the hardware/game. Example: if you have nVidia, use this guide for setting up your hardware http://www.geforce.com/optimize/guides/five-fast-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-tweaks-guaranteed-to-make-your-game-look-even-better

 

If you use 120 or newer, then you should disable all hardware and game AA, and only use AF through the hardware if you prefer setting it there (as you can set it through enbseries.ini as well). Basically, disable everything from the above guide, and turn off AA and AF in the Skyrim / Options

 

Setting AA at multiple places (hardware and game and enb) will cause huge frame drops. That is part of the reason why the new ENB binary has such good performance, there is no longer a need for hardware/game AA.

 

I only use SMAA, and see very little frame drop. I inject it via SweetFX through ENB proxy.

[wrender27]

Perhaps something is not working right with my enb. If I turn anything off AA or AF wise and try to force it thru the enb everything looks worse and the fps hit stays the same for me whether I am running with my hardware on and the enb on at the same time ..and this is with the new 126. I dunno lol this engine is so touchy to me so many things that mess some people up can work good for others so who knows lol