Why one should never install the Lovers with PK Package from Hongfire.

[Ark of Truth]

It's Shit!!

 

I installed it and all it did was completely fuck up my game resulting in a uninstall and installing again. Seriously if your gonna release a mod stuck a fucking readme in it.

 

I don't advise this package to anyone. It's a fine example of bigger is not better or updated is not great.

[varenne]

It's Shit!!

 

I installed it and all it did was completely fuck up my game resulting in a uninstall and installing again. Seriously if your gonna release a mod stick a fucking readme in it.

 

I don't advise this package to anyone. It's a fine example of bigger is not better or updated is not great.

[humor]

Ya think?

 

You mean something like this?

 

Post #123

 

RE: Lovers with PK Package

Evolving this PK Package - Suggested

Were this my work and thread I would add a hidden spoiler text section directly under the following text on the OP;

 

Lovers with PK Package:

http://www.mediafire.com/?prj975wdc19ucls

 

a list of what is included in the package (file names) and what is the bare minimum required files to activate to actually experience the Lovers PK experience' date=' and which are optional.

 

Next, I would also include as part of those required/optional file classifications a very brief description of what functionality it provides or what it adds to the Lovers PK experience.

 

Last but not least, this package really needs a better read me file. All that you currently have in the package is something that mentions a translation by HanPL and a link to a site. You don't even mention that the files in the folder, 'Lovers Creature Sexual Organs' should actually be added only via a bashed patch, and then deactivated.

 

All the above are suggested as a way of helping you to evolve this package to IMO, the next level of completeness.

 

Or this?

 

Request Please include a readme.txt file

 

[/humor]

[gregathit]

I have never been a big fan of AIO's for lovers. In the time I have been around (dating back to wolflore) I have seen folks get themselves in more trouble faster, by trying to install too many mods, too quickly and not having the slightest idea what in the hell they are installing.

 

Yes, we could use better documentation. No one would argue with that. The way to accomplish this is in small steps.

 

Case in point:

Animation packs were all over the place and it was confusing as hell what was in what pack and whether it was worth messing with. Erc1971 saw a need and stepped up to the plate and cataloged them. While Erc1971 was working another person (Tsukikage) stepped up and made the Daedra Assistant to make previewing and selecting those animations you wanted tons easier. We have all benefited from this.

 

While not directly a lovers plugin, member gerra6 saw a need in another area and stepped in to put together his fantastic setbody mod.

 

The point is we need folks to quit complaining and target an area of need and start in. Tackle a specific task such as translating a new plugin, or testing it, or writing up a readme or help sheet for a particular plugin. As more of these types of things get done, it will become easier to work towards something similar to an AIO.

 

Having, making or maintaining an AIO is pointless at the stage we are at right now. Until proper documentation is put together and all plugins are translated and tested to their very latest versions, it is just more confusion than it is worth.

 

These are just my thoughts. I never really liked prophour's AIO because of the fact that folks just installed every damn plugin that he included and then got angry when it didn't work. I have always believed in taking small careful steps as opposed to just throwing everything in and hoping for the best. Sometime AIO's can work against you in that it makes it easy for people to ignore any documentation that you do have and they just install it all.

 

The other part of AIO's and why I don't like them is the lack of flexibility. What happens when several new plugins come out? Are you supposed to redownload and install some massive file for a couple of updated plugins?

 

I am all for making things clear and easy to understand, but I don't see how to do this with an AIO at this time.

 

Sorry for the wall of text and my random jumbled thoughts...

[perfectioncat]

It's Shit!!

 

I installed it and all it did was completely fuck up my game resulting in a uninstall and installing again. Seriously if your gonna release a mod stuck a fucking readme in it.

 

I don't advise this package to anyone. It's a fine example of bigger is not better or updated is not great.

 

Stop others' things being criticized without negligently verifying it.

With PK (Is the name in this site extender?) is a translation of MOD originally made in Japan.

Remodeling and the re-distribution of it are admitted.

Moreover, anyone is sure not contradict the original writer's intention by various MOD that accompanies it, and either distribute it.

You do not have the right to criticize it.

After reading the document of the original edition of with PK accurately, are you criticizing?

 

Has the site administrator permitted such a remark?

[gregathit]

Stop others' things being criticized without negligently verifying it.

With PK (Is the name in this site extender?) is a translation of MOD originally made in Japan.

Remodeling and the re-distribution of it are admitted.

Moreover' date=' anyone is sure not contradict the original writer's intention by various MOD that accompanies it, and either distribute it.

You do not have the right to criticize it.

After reading the document of the original edition of with PK accurately, are you criticizing?

 

Has the site administrator permitted such a remark?

[/quote']

 

PerfectionCat, prophour says far worse things about Ark of Truth and even me over at hongfire, so let's not pretend to be outraged. Ark of Truth is entitled to express his opinion and no one cares if prohour's feelings are hurt after what he did. Ark of Truth is criticizing prophour's AIO and not Lovers with PK.

 

Now I do not agree that his AIO is that bad. For what it is trying to accomplish it is actually pretty damn good. I am just opposed to AIO's in general at the stage of where lovers is at right now.

[perfectioncat]

Stop others' things being criticized without negligently verifying it.

With PK (Is the name in this site extender?) is a translation of MOD originally made in Japan.

Remodeling and the re-distribution of it are admitted.

Moreover' date=' anyone is sure not contradict the original writer's intention by various MOD that accompanies it, and either distribute it.

You do not have the right to criticize it.

After reading the document of the original edition of with PK accurately, are you criticizing?

 

Has the site administrator permitted such a remark?

[/quote']

 

PerfectionCat, prophour says far worse things about Ark of Truth and even me over at hongfire, so let's not pretend to be outraged. Ark of Truth is entitled to express his opinion and no one cares if prohour's feelings are hurt after what he did. Ark of Truth is criticizing prophour's AIO and not Lovers with PK.

 

Now I do not agree that his AIO is that bad. For what it is trying to accomplish it is actually pretty damn good. I am just opposed to AIO's in general at the stage of where lovers is at right now.

 

It is pointed out to criticize to the distributed material of another site my saying in a public way.

Do not object even if this site is criticized on an outside site if you permit it.

If correspondence to which either is appropriate is not taken, it is repeated.

This time, it is necessary to have received harm moderate because such a thread had been started up.

What is it?

It might be a role as the moderator to ask it.

Please accomplish it.

 

As for document insufficient, the package of PK of LL is also so.

Was the technological material appended to an original package of Japan translated?

There is no what seen on this site.

It is possible to criticize well though the document of such a basic package is not distributed of the others.

[varenne]

@G' and Ark'

 

No, this is good, both of you. I see this post as part of the evolution. We know where more work is needed, or at least some of us do. Question is where to begin? I've already experienced working on one translation, only to find out someone else had started it too, the exact same MOD. I hate duplicated effort...

 

So, we need some sort of control point. I know you posted a request for testing of some translated MODs by Ice' but I was already neck deep in Dark Bloodline and I had no time. (I'm still no fan of doing translation work, especially Japanese/Chinese, no offense to them just the 'tools' available are lacking. Russian, German, Italian and Spanish for me was so far the easiest.)

 

So as one of the many 'hats' I've worn I'd suggest something from basic project management. We list out what needs to be done and members can review th elist and sign-out/sign-up for that task till it's completed, then upload it for review, which would be another list with the same process.

 

Multiple members could potentially work together, collaborate and coordinate on larger tasks, all simply by posting in a controlled thread.

 

FYI - And I'll probaly pay for this one at some point, I'm no fan of so called 'Completes' or AIOs either, for the same reasons you stated. There's a reason subversion is used on coding projects. There's a reason for putting comments in code, readmes in archives and there's a reason for imposing control as that is what produces quality and reduces the chaos.

 

[/rant]

[varenne]

AIO is far too complex for the 'average' or new user to Lovers and/or Oblivion, and I've even recently stated that on Hongfire. A requirement for AIO IMO is knowledge of Wrye Bash. Yet so many try to use AIO without it. AIO is for, again IMO advanaced Oblivion users.

 

On the other hand, what Ark started here on LL with his 'Complete' package is on the lower end of complexity and is in a better position to satisfy the needs of a much larger group, those in the technically challenged, casual user or the simply lazy.

 

Don't have time to read countless posts and readmes to figure it all out? No problem, go with Ark's package to get your feet wet. As you progress and learn more only then should users graduate to something like AIO, since it does require experience and lots and lots of reading AND more importantly, doing and figuring out stuff on your own.

 

I honestly could careless about the continued back and forth between Hongfire users and those here on LL. I just wish it would end as it is interfering with progress, on both sites. There is a much larger interest here and that is the Oblivion Community as a whole. Let's be done with this so we can actually get some work done.

 

[/rant]

[gregathit]

Yea, the only way I can see an AIO working at this stage is to force folks to use a set package of mods with little or no choice. The thought of that makes my skin crawl.

 

I don't see why you should ever "pay" for expressing your thoughts.

 

As to a control point....well I am not really sure how to tackle this. One thought I had was to open a thread and have folks post any lovers mods they were working on, be it translating, revising, testing, altering or making from scratch. I could then update the OP and it would serve as a quick reference point for what is in the que. I could also list out what things need done and if someone decides to step in and tackle it before I can get to it, then great. I agree we do need something like this and I will give it some thought and put something together.

 

I understand completely on you having other things in your que! When prophour left and I had to put all the things I was in the middle of on hold and help translate some of the mods that prohour had done and pulled. Bravil Underground nearly killed me. With HanPL's help we accomplished a machine translation quickly but as I tested it I was completely unsatisfied with settling for a machine translation. I wanted to clean it up and to my horror it took nearly a month working on it to do so. While it still has a few bugs I am rather proud of how it turned out. I think it reflects much better on Vicn who was the original mod maker to have a plain English translation of his mod, rather than a gibberish machine translation. Once most of the plugins were restored then I could go back to work on my BU armors compilation plugin that effectively got put on hold for almost 2 months. Now that I have accomplished the bulk of what I intended to do with the BU plugin I can turn my attention back to lovers. I still have IceCold's translations to test out and there have been new updates for several plugins (lovers stupid for one) so I will have to explore what changed in it.

 

Give me a couple of days and I will cobble something together and you guys can give me feedback on what you like, don't like and what is missing.

[Uriel]

AIO is far too complex for the 'average' or new user to Lovers and/or Oblivion' date=' and I've even recently stated that on Hongfire. A requirement for AIO IMO is knowledge of Wrye Bash. Yet so many try to use AIO without it. AIO is for, again IMO advanaced Oblivion users.[/quote']

Hey, i was supposed to say this. Do you have some kind of mind-reading script running on you?

[varenne]

AIO is far too complex for the 'average' or new user to Lovers and/or Oblivion' date=' and I've even recently stated that on Hongfire. A requirement for AIO IMO is knowledge of Wrye Bash. Yet so many try to use AIO without it. AIO is for, again IMO advanaced Oblivion users.[/quote']

Hey, i was supposed to say this. Do you have some kind of mind-reading script running on you?

 

LOL! Yup, and an AI program too trading stocks for me.

[athdar]

I agree. I do not have, nor want to have, any involvement in the bickering among members of LL or hongfire; however, I do want to enjoy the most up-to-date gameplay. I also haven't seen many attempts to fully consolidate efforts among English developers of the Lovers mods.

 

Most Lovers efforts seem to be more translational than developmental. There is no reason to branch translation/development of Lovers mods unless a specific developer wants to add extra functionality. I welcome choice, but see no need in making things complex. Consolidation should make things easier for everyone.

 

Everything considered, I see only disparate development and end-user download links for many mods I would like to use. Is there any reason the developers can't agree to work together and use a sourceforge-like repository to keep track of mod progress/updates?

[varenne]

 

 

Yea' date=' the only way I can see an AIO working at this stage is to force folks to use a set package of mods with little or no choice. The thought of that makes my skin crawl.

 

I don't see why you should ever "pay" for expressing your thoughts.

 

As to a control point....well I am not really sure how to tackle this. One thought I had was to open a thread and have folks post any lovers mods they were working on, be it translating, revising, testing, altering or making from scratch. I could then update the OP and it would serve as a quick reference point for what is in the que. I could also list out what things need done and if someone decides to step in and tackle it before I can get to it, then great. I agree we do need something like this and I will give it some thought and put something together.

 

I understand completely on you having other things in your que! When prophour left and I had to put all the things I was in the middle of on hold and help translate some of the mods that prohour had done and pulled. Bravil Underground nearly killed me. With HanPL's help we accomplished a machine translation quickly but as I tested it I was completely unsatisfied with settling for a machine translation. I wanted to clean it up and to my horror it took nearly a month working on it to do so. While it still has a few bugs I am rather proud of how it turned out. I think it reflects much better on Vicn who was the original mod maker to have a plain English translation of his mod, rather than a gibberish machine translation. Once most of the plugins were restored then I could go back to work on my BU armors compilation plugin that effectively got put on hold for almost 2 months. Now that I have accomplished the bulk of what I intended to do with the BU plugin I can turn my attention back to lovers. I still have IceCold's translations to test out and there have been new updates for several plugins (lovers stupid for one) so I will have to explore what changed in it.

 

Give me a couple of days and I will cobble something together and you guys can give me feedback on what you like, don't like and what is missing.

[/quote']

 

 

I like it! Sign me up!

I'm getting into doing stuff with NifSkope currently, so that's my current focus and interest.

 

Next, and no idea when will be Blender, it's just so time consuming.

 

If Ark needs help with 'docs' on 'Complete' I can offer my help there too. His project, his choice, his direction.

[gregathit]

I agree. I do not have' date=' nor want to have, any involvement in the bickering among members of LL or hongfire; however, I do want to enjoy the most up-to-date gameplay. I also haven't seen many attempts to fully consolidate efforts among English developers of the Lovers mods.

 

Most Lovers efforts seem to be more translational than developmental. There is no reason to branch translation/development of Lovers mods unless a specific developer wants to add extra functionality. I welcome choice, but see no need in making things complex. Consolidation should make things easier for everyone.

 

Everything considered, I see only disparate development and end-user download links for many mods I would like to use. Is there any reason the developers can't agree to work together and use a sourceforge-like repository to keep track of mod progress/updates?

[/quote']

 

It comes down in the end, to folks being willing to donate a rather large chunk of their free time. Project management of something like this can be far more difficult and time consuming than just doing the actual translating.

 

As I stated before it took me just a hair over a month slaving over one plugin (bravil underground) to get it into decent shape. I would not ask or expect anyone to donate that kind of effort for something they don't have an interest in.

 

I will try to put something together and hopefully we can try to slice this into manageable chunks and start making some progress. Unless more folks volunteer, it will progress, but only very slowly.

[perfectioncat]

 

 

Yea' date=' the only way I can see an AIO working at this stage is to force folks to use a set package of mods with little or no choice. The thought of that makes my skin crawl.

 

I don't see why you should ever "pay" for expressing your thoughts.

 

As to a control point....well I am not really sure how to tackle this. One thought I had was to open a thread and have folks post any lovers mods they were working on, be it translating, revising, testing, altering or making from scratch. I could then update the OP and it would serve as a quick reference point for what is in the que. I could also list out what things need done and if someone decides to step in and tackle it before I can get to it, then great. I agree we do need something like this and I will give it some thought and put something together.

 

I understand completely on you having other things in your que! When prophour left and I had to put all the things I was in the middle of on hold and help translate some of the mods that prohour had done and pulled. Bravil Underground nearly killed me. With HanPL's help we accomplished a machine translation quickly but as I tested it I was completely unsatisfied with settling for a machine translation. I wanted to clean it up and to my horror it took nearly a month working on it to do so. While it still has a few bugs I am rather proud of how it turned out. I think it reflects much better on Vicn who was the original mod maker to have a plain English translation of his mod, rather than a gibberish machine translation. Once most of the plugins were restored then I could go back to work on my BU armors compilation plugin that effectively got put on hold for almost 2 months. Now that I have accomplished the bulk of what I intended to do with the BU plugin I can turn my attention back to lovers. I still have IceCold's translations to test out and there have been new updates for several plugins (lovers stupid for one) so I will have to explore what changed in it.

 

Give me a couple of days and I will cobble something together and you guys can give me feedback on what you like, don't like and what is missing.

[/quote']

 

 

I like it! Sign me up!

I'm getting into doing stuff with NifSkope currently, so that's my current focus and interest.

 

Next, and no idea when will be Blender, it's just so time consuming.

 

If Ark needs help with 'docs' on 'Complete' I can offer my help there too. His project, his choice, his direction.

The document that brings the method of my using Blender and NifScope before and making the animation of Oblivion together is here. 

Please refer if you avoid it. 

Because the image is included, I think that I become reference though it is written in Japanese. 

 

http://www.4shared.com/file/**************************

 

In the acquisition of Var of the file, URL lets me delete it.

There is no intention of informing even the person who doesn't have the production intention of it, and understand, please.

[varenne]

 

 

I agree. I do not have' date=' nor want to have, any involvement in the bickering among members of LL or hongfire; however, I do want to enjoy the most up-to-date gameplay. I also haven't seen many attempts to fully consolidate efforts among English developers of the Lovers mods.

 

Most Lovers efforts seem to be more translational than developmental. There is no reason to branch translation/development of Lovers mods unless a specific developer wants to add extra functionality. I welcome choice, but see no need in making things complex. Consolidation should make things easier for everyone.

 

Everything considered, I see only disparate development and end-user download links for many mods I would like to use. Is there any reason the developers can't agree to work together and use a sourceforge-like repository to keep track of mod progress/updates?

[/quote']

 

It comes down in the end, to folks being willing to donate a rather large chunk of their free time. Project management of something like this can be far more difficult and time consuming than just doing the actual translating.

 

As I stated before it took me just a hair over a month slaving over one plugin (bravil underground) to get it into decent shape. I would not ask or expect anyone to donate that kind of effort for something they don't have an interest in.

 

I will try to put something together and hopefully we can try to slice this into manageable chunks and start making some progress. Unless more folks volunteer, it will progress, but only very slowly.

 

 

 

@g' - Suggestion would be to mention that members can PM those working on stuff too, that was how I got a volunteer to game test a MOD tran. I was working.

 

So I think we may need a project manager for larger stuff, project lead for smaller stuff, essentially a point of contact to coordinate all efforts, since we don't have the advanced functionality that a subversion or web app would normally provide. Keep it simple, too complex chases would be helper bees away.

[varenne]

 

 

 

 

Yea' date=' the only way I can see an AIO working at this stage is to force folks to use a set package of mods with little or no choice. The thought of that makes my skin crawl.

 

I don't see why you should ever "pay" for expressing your thoughts.

 

As to a control point....well I am not really sure how to tackle this. One thought I had was to open a thread and have folks post any lovers mods they were working on, be it translating, revising, testing, altering or making from scratch. I could then update the OP and it would serve as a quick reference point for what is in the que. I could also list out what things need done and if someone decides to step in and tackle it before I can get to it, then great. I agree we do need something like this and I will give it some thought and put something together.

 

I understand completely on you having other things in your que! When prophour left and I had to put all the things I was in the middle of on hold and help translate some of the mods that prohour had done and pulled. Bravil Underground nearly killed me. With HanPL's help we accomplished a machine translation quickly but as I tested it I was completely unsatisfied with settling for a machine translation. I wanted to clean it up and to my horror it took nearly a month working on it to do so. While it still has a few bugs I am rather proud of how it turned out. I think it reflects much better on Vicn who was the original mod maker to have a plain English translation of his mod, rather than a gibberish machine translation. Once most of the plugins were restored then I could go back to work on my BU armors compilation plugin that effectively got put on hold for almost 2 months. Now that I have accomplished the bulk of what I intended to do with the BU plugin I can turn my attention back to lovers. I still have IceCold's translations to test out and there have been new updates for several plugins (lovers stupid for one) so I will have to explore what changed in it.

 

Give me a couple of days and I will cobble something together and you guys can give me feedback on what you like, don't like and what is missing.

[/quote']

 

 

I like it! Sign me up!

I'm getting into doing stuff with NifSkope currently, so that's my current focus and interest.

 

Next, and no idea when will be Blender, it's just so time consuming.

 

If Ark needs help with 'docs' on 'Complete' I can offer my help there too. His project, his choice, his direction.

 

 

The document that brings the method of my using Blender and NifScope before and making the animation of Oblivion together is here. 

Please refer if you avoid it. 

Because the image is included, I think that I become reference though it is written in Japanese. 

 

http://www.4shared.com/file/.....................

 

Domo arigato PerfectionCat!

[athdar]

I agree. I do not have' date=' nor want to have, any involvement in the bickering among members of LL or hongfire; however, I do want to enjoy the most up-to-date gameplay. I also haven't seen many attempts to fully consolidate efforts among English developers of the Lovers mods.

 

Most Lovers efforts seem to be more translational than developmental. There is no reason to branch translation/development of Lovers mods unless a specific developer wants to add extra functionality. I welcome choice, but see no need in making things complex. Consolidation should make things easier for everyone.

 

Everything considered, I see only disparate development and end-user download links for many mods I would like to use. Is there any reason the developers can't agree to work together and use a sourceforge-like repository to keep track of mod progress/updates?

[/quote']

 

It comes down in the end, to folks being willing to donate a rather large chunk of their free time. Project management of something like this can be far more difficult and time consuming than just doing the actual translating.

 

As I stated before it took me just a hair over a month slaving over one plugin (bravil underground) to get it into decent shape. I would not ask or expect anyone to donate that kind of effort for something they don't have an interest in.

 

I will try to put something together and hopefully we can try to slice this into manageable chunks and start making some progress. Unless more folks volunteer, it will progress, but only very slowly.

 

I completely understand the logistical hurdles involved in software development. However, it seems that most ill-will between developers has come from those that are dedicated to develop the mods no matter the investment involved, even it if could be aggregated.

 

It takes time to get any mod perfect, but why would someone want to invest 100% of their time working alone on development when there is enough interest to divide the work among multiple people, who have the tenacity to do this on their own, working towards a common goal?

 

I'm no socialist, but I believe we should use the tools available to all of us to further our understanding and enjoyment of what we create.

 

-Lepy

[perfectioncat]

There is one proposal.

The thread to be able to do another discussion by closing this thread if you do not hope for the trouble like both situation to date any further is expected to be opened.

The title of this thread exerts an influence not good on the one that it doesn't know circumstances.

Moreover, it is likely to be handled as an opinion of LL.

It is hoped that you give the wise judgment.

[perfectioncat]

 

 

 

 

Yea' date=' the only way I can see an AIO working at this stage is to force folks to use a set package of mods with little or no choice. The thought of that makes my skin crawl.

 

I don't see why you should ever "pay" for expressing your thoughts.

 

As to a control point....well I am not really sure how to tackle this. One thought I had was to open a thread and have folks post any lovers mods they were working on, be it translating, revising, testing, altering or making from scratch. I could then update the OP and it would serve as a quick reference point for what is in the que. I could also list out what things need done and if someone decides to step in and tackle it before I can get to it, then great. I agree we do need something like this and I will give it some thought and put something together.

 

I understand completely on you having other things in your que! When prophour left and I had to put all the things I was in the middle of on hold and help translate some of the mods that prohour had done and pulled. Bravil Underground nearly killed me. With HanPL's help we accomplished a machine translation quickly but as I tested it I was completely unsatisfied with settling for a machine translation. I wanted to clean it up and to my horror it took nearly a month working on it to do so. While it still has a few bugs I am rather proud of how it turned out. I think it reflects much better on Vicn who was the original mod maker to have a plain English translation of his mod, rather than a gibberish machine translation. Once most of the plugins were restored then I could go back to work on my BU armors compilation plugin that effectively got put on hold for almost 2 months. Now that I have accomplished the bulk of what I intended to do with the BU plugin I can turn my attention back to lovers. I still have IceCold's translations to test out and there have been new updates for several plugins (lovers stupid for one) so I will have to explore what changed in it.

 

Give me a couple of days and I will cobble something together and you guys can give me feedback on what you like, don't like and what is missing.

[/quote']

 

 

I like it! Sign me up!

I'm getting into doing stuff with NifSkope currently, so that's my current focus and interest.

 

Next, and no idea when will be Blender, it's just so time consuming.

 

If Ark needs help with 'docs' on 'Complete' I can offer my help there too. His project, his choice, his direction.

 

 

The document that brings the method of my using Blender and NifScope before and making the animation of Oblivion together is here. 

Please refer if you avoid it. 

Because the image is included, I think that I become reference though it is written in Japanese. 

 

http://www.4shared.com/file/cmoBY-tC/making_oblivion_anim.html

 

Domo arigato PerfectionCat!

 

Dou itashimashite.

どういたしまして。

[varenne]

There is one proposal.

The thread to be able to do another discussion by closing this thread if you do not hope for the trouble like both situation to date any further is expected to be opened.

The title of this thread exerts an influence not good on the one that it doesn't know circumstances.

Moreover' date=' it is likely to be handled as an opinion of LL.

It is hoped that you give the wise judgment.

[/quote']

 

I have mixed feelings on closing the thread. One, there is angst (ふあん - fuan) among some Oblivion users that needs to be expressed and addressed, calmly and maturely, or else they can not move forward and reach closure. We need to help them achieve that; The Zen of Oblivion

 

On the other hand, it should follow some form of basic etiquette, which is what evolved forums and members do.

 

As a student of the martial arts and a business person in America, I was taught not to be afraid of, or avoid conflict.

[gregathit]

I would agree with Varenne on this. What trouble could possibly come from the thread title? Is it juvenile? Of course it is, but sometime it is through our frustration that change for the better can come about just as Varenne stated.

 

Prophour talks just as much smack and no one calls him on it. Are you over there lecturing him the same way? If you have, I sure missed that post(s) - (Varenne, I do know that you have been consistent in both forums in wanting to move past the bickering and that is refreshing).

 

Personally, I don't care one way or another about Prophour anymore. As Varenne stated, the past is the past and it is way past time to move on. There is no competition or rivalry despite what some may think. When we do allow rivalry, it just serves to hurt ourselves and the community at large.

 

Bottom line, we need to work towards improving and perfecting what is right in front of us and not worry about what someone at some other site is doing. However, if it helps to bitch a bit to get something off of your chest.....knock yourself out.

[perfectioncat]

There is a solution of different MOD of which the source is the same thing.

Does knowing what happened for people who use it in the both become a profit for them?

There is no meaning for the person who doesn't know it though it is important recognition for the one related to it.

The person says that he or she cannot understand correctly if it doesn't know.

However, there are feelings that do not awake either if it doesn't take it.

I hope the mind keeps being peaceful without informing them of it than informing them of it and giving the mental conflict to the person if it is not profitable for the person.

 

It is that the person decides it at that time though the known time will come it either.

[perfectioncat]

I would agree with Varenne on this. What trouble could possibly come from the thread title? Is it juvenile? Of course it is' date=' but sometime it is through our frustration that change for the better can come about just as Varenne stated.

 

Prophour talks just as much smack and no one calls him on it. Are you over there lecturing him the same way? If you have, I sure missed that post(s) - (Varenne, I do know that you have been consistent in both forums in wanting to move past the bickering and that is refreshing).

 

Personally, I don't care one way or another about Prophour anymore. As Varenne stated, the past is the past and it is way past time to move on. There is no competition or rivalry despite what some may think. When we do allow rivalry, it just serves to hurt ourselves and the community at large.

 

Bottom line, we need to work towards improving and perfecting what is right in front of us and not worry about what someone at some other site is doing. However, if it helps to bitch a bit to get something off of your chest.....knock yourself out.

[/quote']

 

I am not to point out the thing of PropHor.

The title of the thread of the content to which another site is criticized is pointed out.

Even if it is a site of another person who is not PropHour, I say the same thing.

 

It is a legitimate right that the site requests the correction from the notice thing in contradiction to the mind of the site.

It is a question of not exercising it.

If it was not exercised, the site allowed it the opinion.

Does LL allow the insistence that it means the title of this thread?

[gregathit]

I see nothing wrong with the thread title. People are free to post why they agree or disagree with it, just like you are doing right now. I don't see why the freedom to express his opinion should be stopped.