EMS vs ESP load order question

[KonradSimon]

I'm still trying to figure out load order.  One of the things I was looking at was this: 

 

One thing it says is that Schlongs of Skyrim.esm should go near the top, and SOS.esp should go near the bottom.  Using Mod Organizer, I'm not clear how to tell it where to place different pieces.  Am I missing something?  On the left-hand side, I only have one, "SOS".  Right now, I have it near the top, right after FNIS.  My question is less about exactly where to put it, then it is about trying to understand the method.  I have no clue what the difference between an ESM and a ESP file is, and less of clue about how you tell MO to put one in one place, and the other in the other place (unless I should ignore it and just trust LOOT to place them both correctly).  Any, if someone feels like taking the time to offer a quick explanation, it would probably bring a lot of other confusing things into focus.  Thanks for reading.

[Guest]

ESM file are "Master" files.

At the end, there is no real difference than being loaded before.

All DLCs are set as master files so it the game itself.

 

Other mods being set as master? Almost useless.

 

Now, in mod organizer you can arrange the load order of the mods.

Just put close to the bottom the one you wanna win in case of conflicts.

 

[SirDuke]

Spoiler

 

 

On the left side (green) is where you can organize your mods in general.

Here are texture files installed, body bodys and here will the esp and esm files be saved.

This is the side where mods will be "installed".

You can rename them, delete them, re-install them.

 

 

 

The right side (red) is where your plugin and master files are sorted.

This side is only about "turn on and off" like a light switch.

Plugin (esp) and master (esm) are files with programmed information, read by the game.

 

For both sides counts one thing!

The information on the top is loaded first, bottom is loaded last.

This is important, if one information writes over another previous one.

If there is a conflict between two mods, bottom will win.

 

[KonradSimon]

6 minutes ago, CPU said:

ESM file are "Master" files.

At the end, there is no real difference than being loaded before.

All DLCs are set as master files so it the game itself.

 

Other mods being set as master? Almost useless.

 

Now, in mod organizer you can arrange the load order of the mods.

Just put close to the bottom the one you wanna win in case of conflicts.

 

Thanks for the reply.  The post I linked to seems to indicate 1) that a single mod, "SOS" can have an esm and esp, and 2) that they can be placed in the load order in different places.  Am I misunderstanding 1), and, if not, how do you accomplish 2)?

[KonradSimon]

2 minutes ago, SirDuke said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

On the left side (green) is where you can organize your mods in general.

Here are texture files installed, body bodys and here will the esp and esm files be saved.

This is the side where mods will be "installed".

You can rename them, delete them, re-install them.

 

 

 

The right side (red) is where you plugin and master files are sorted.

This side is only about "turn on and off" like a light switch.

Plugin (esp) and master (esm) are files with programmed information, read by the game.

 

 

Okay, that helps. Thanks.

[valcon767]

@KonradSimon

 

using the picture by SirDuke as a reference

the mod itself (the green section) is everything included and possibly used by that mod.

 

that includes meshes, textures, scripts, ESM (master file) and ESP (regular plugin file), you know everything that that mod uses that comes

packaged with the mod. this can include variations of the files.  looking at SOS for example when you install the mod you get the ESM and some ESP 

files.  the ESM (for SOS) is the "core" of the mod.  it is the parts that the mod uses for all its variations, but it also includes some other plugins,

that can (not must) be used.  so these parts are split into their own ESP files so people can only use the parts they want.  not all mods do this, which is

fine, but some do.  

 

the ESM/ESP files (red section in the picture by SirDuke) is the actual order the ESM/ESP files get activated.

 

looking at SOS for example

you load a mod that requires SOS for it to work right, in the left pane (green), the new mod must load after SOS so that it knows it is present, and will work.

but say you have the Vector Plexus addon esp activated but you do now want the new mod to use that part.  the way to fix this is in the right pane (red),

you load the SOS "core" files (ESM) then the new mod, then the Vector Plexus addon (esp) after the mod.  end result is the new mod works but does not use

the Vector Plexus addon.  this allows users to customize their games to a much greater degree.

 

looking at another mod that gives more than 1 ESM/ESP file in it (For The Masses 3)

when installed in the left pane (green) it takes up a single spot, but in the right pane (red) it has 4 ESP files.

what this mod author did was build a mod, and build support into the mod to resolve issues if certain other mods (CCOR and OBIS) are also used.

this can be done in different ways.  the usual way is to release the mod itself, and additional patches (so it works with certain other mods).

the main problem with this method is that it require an additional spot in the right pane (red) for each additional mod use with the released mod.

the author, being nice about it, did the actual work already to build the patch into the main mod, thus saving places on the right pane (red).

what that means is that done as separate patches you would need 1 slot for his mod, 1 for each of the supported mods, and 1 for the patch = 3 slots.

with the patch "built in" it means you need 1 slot for his mod, and 1 slot for the suppported mod = 2 slots.

for people who use a lot of mods, doing it the way he did will let them keep that extra slot for a new mod, but it does require people (users) to actually

only enable the version of his mod that they need in the right pane (red). it also lets the mod creator have less work to do to keep the mod updated,

and bug fixed by having it all in one place instead of spread over 4 places (1 for his mod and 3 separate patches).

 

i hope the information helps (and was not too confusing).

 

[KonradSimon]

10 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

@KonradSimon

 

 

 

i hope the information helps (and was not too confusing).

 

Both, in fact.  I'm going to keep that up there and read it several times. That is *exactly* the sort of answer I was looking for, and if I don't understand it yet, that's my problem and just means a bit more study.   After I've stared at it a bit, if I have more questions, I'll come back to them.  Meanwhile, I very much appreciate you taking the time to explain something complicated.

[valcon767]

14 minutes ago, KonradSimon said:

Both, in fact.  I'm going to keep that up there and read it several times. That is *exactly* the sort of answer I was looking for, and if I don't understand it yet, that's my problem and just means a bit more study.   After I've stared at it a bit, if I have more questions, I'll come back to them.  Meanwhile, I very much appreciate you taking the time to explain something complicated.

ok the part that makes it confusing is the method used by different people.

 

what you can do, for any mod you get here, is if you have questions about that specific mod is first search in the support thread,

and read the download page.

then if you did not find the information you were looking for (or are still confused) is to make a post in the support thread.

as long as you are polite (or at least not rude) most of the time a good amount of the people (here on LL) will respond.

 

2 things to keep in mind for posting help requests.

1 - try to be polite (also remember people have other things they have to do also, just like anybody else)

2 - provide as much information as you have that is relevant to what you are looking for.

 

for posting logs or load orders it is better to attach as a text file or at least use a spoiler tag

spoiler tag example (remove the * and it will work)

[spoil*er]

text placed inside the spoiler

[/spoil*er]

 

[KonradSimon]

8 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

ok the part that makes it confusing is the method used by different people.

 

 

I think I've figured out the piece I was missing.  And that is that you can change the order on the right-hand (red) side as well.  I had been thinking that was created by LOOT in response to the order on the left-hand side.  But, in fact, if a mod has, for example, an ESM and an ESP, it is possible to leave one where it is placed by LOOT, and move the other.  Thus, in the example I linked to in the OP, the guy was saying to put SOS.ESM toward the top, and the ESP toward the end, and this can be done by manually moving the ESP on the right-hand column of MO.  I THINK that makes sense of this. 

[valcon767]

11 minutes ago, KonradSimon said:

I think I've figured out the piece I was missing.  And that is that you can change the order on the right-hand (red) side as well.  I had been thinking that was created by LOOT in response to the order on the left-hand side.  But, in fact, if a mod has, for example, an ESM and an ESP, it is possible to leave one where it is placed by LOOT, and move the other.  Thus, in the example I linked to in the OP, the guy was saying to put SOS.ESM toward the top, and the ESP toward the end, and this can be done by manually moving the ESP on the right-hand column of MO.  I THINK that makes sense of this. 

yes that can be done

sorry i forget to tell you that. (facepalm) ... that is one of the nice things about mod managers (MO is really nice this way).

the left side is the order the resources are loaded, and the right side is the order the mods are activated.

it is generally better to keep them as close to the same as possible, but there are exceptions (like SOS).

 

[KonradSimon]

17 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

yes that can be done

 

 

Sweet!  Mystery solved!  Okay, now back to my life: killing things and taking their stuff.  Many thanks again.