3dsMax - weighting/skinning new body mesh from scratch?

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Okay - I have some modified body meshes (existing body mesh, author's permissions allow tinkering), but the weighting is bad. When the weight/size slider is moved, stray vertices spike out a little.

 

*Note - the meshes do not explode, as seen when the _0 and _1 meshes do not match, it's just a few vertices here & there which are badly weighed.

 

I am willing to re-skin the body from scratch, but I do not know how. Are there any comprehensible tutorials for this in 3dsMax?? I can't seem to find any...

 

If I import a skeleton first, then the mesh, and try to skin it like I normally would with an armour, when I click the skeleton to "Add" it as the mesh I am skinning to, it only adds the one bone I clicked on so I am guessing this is the wrong method.

[blabba]

*Summons the Allmighty @Vioxsis*

 

Probably best person to ask for 3dsmax related questions.

 

But yea basically in the skin modifier, you need to manually add ALL the bones you wish to skin to. Or when you click add bones, you can ctrl+click and select all the bones needed.

 

Just a quick google search of a 3dsmax skinning video, dunno if it's good or not, but it covers a lot of useful stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6vtUyKafbA

 

Alternatively, easiest method is use skinwrap, and copy weighting from another properly weighted body and tweak it from there.

[rahrahrah]

I'd happily do all my stuff manually but those extra bones in the arms have put me off so I just attach a working body mesh after giving it a different Material ID then poof, select by ID and delete the donor mesh and tweak any areas that might need it.   It might sound dodgy but it's never failed me

 

I also often separate parts of the mesh that need to retain their shape like pauldrons and just do those manually by giving them .5 weights on both clavicle and upper arm.

[b3lisario]

"When the weight/size slider is moved, stray vertices spike out a little"

 

Does not sound like a problem in weighting.

I would check first if the skin partitions in _0 and _1 are exactly the same (BSDismemberSkinInstance/NiSkinPartition in nifskope or the BSDismemberSkin Modifier in 3ds max)

[Vioxsis]

Okay - I have some modified body meshes (existing body mesh, author's permissions allow tinkering), but the weighting is bad. When the weight/size slider is moved, stray vertices spike out a little.

 

*Note - the meshes do not explode, as seen when the _0 and _1 meshes do not match, it's just a few vertices here & there which are badly weighed.

If it only happens on 0% weight or 100% weight in game then yes its bad weighting (and given on which weight it happened will tell you the one that needs fixing) if it doesn't occur on 0 or 100% but in between 1-99% then its a vertex mismatch. Or as b3lisario said a difference in dismember partitions.

 

I am willing to re-skin the body from scratch, but I do not know how. Are there any comprehensible tutorials for this in 3dsMax?? I can't seem to find any...

I would wager that its because you don't know how is the reason your willing to do it from scratch.

 

But like rahrahrah said the arm weights are quite difficult to get your head round.

 

I would do the much the same  as him.

Find a good weighted body with the same proportions (or as close as yo can get good weights are more important).

Then skin wrap from it (if the shapes are very close use the face deformation if there is a significant difference use vertex deformation / weight all points.

 

Then from there i would key in some basic animation to bend the places i'm working on and then start brushing and blending the weights until it bends nicely.

 

Once i feel its done its a good idea to drag in some animations from skyrim to see how they look.

 

The video blabba posted shows you all the basics you will need to get started.

 

If I import a skeleton first, then the mesh, and try to skin it like I normally would with an armour, when I click the skeleton to "Add" it as the mesh I am skinning to, it only adds the one bone I clicked on so I am guessing this is the wrong method.

When you add a bone from the skin modifier it assigns it weights (100%) that its envelopes envelop (unless it has already been assigned to some other bone. So it tends to be better to do them in order of dominants.

But you should be able to add multiple bones at the same time, just make sure you have them all selected and not just a root.

 

But because of the complicated arm i would avoid doing it manually and go with skin wrap.

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Thank-you very much for these replies, people! The consensus seems to be to skin to an existing body - I will try this with a couple & see how it goes! Many thanks for the help, it is very much appreciated!!!

 

*Would stock standard "Dimon UNP" be a good starting choice for weighting? It's a reasonably close match to the _0 mesh for proportions...

[Vioxsis]

UUNP should have better weighting, plus you can match its shape closer to get a nicer transfer.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/49015/?

 

The CBBE weights are also very well done, either one will be a good base to steal borrow weights from.

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Awesome - thanks Vioxis!!!

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

UUNP should have better weighting, plus you can match its shape closer to get a nicer transfer.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/49015/?

 

The CBBE weights are also very well done, either one will be a good base to steal borrow weights from.

 

 

Awesome - thanks Vioxis!!!

 

 

Okay - I've been messing around with this, with little success. I've tried a number of bodies - CBBE squished the thighs completely flat (I wasn't expecting that - bizarre!), UNP is *kinda* okay, but does leave weird crumpling across the base of the ribcage when moving/crouching/etc. for some reason (possibly due to the slightly lower placement of the bust in UNP), and weird things happen to the shoulders. Vanilla "FemaleAstrid" meshes are not a bad match, but the weighting on the breasts is weird - they're noticeably pulled downward when running/crounching (owww!).

 

I can't really get anything resembling these using CITRUS or Bodyslide. The limbs balloon in size, rather than create a larger mesh which actually has built-in definition. Using normal maps can give an imitative *appearance* of textures that attempt to mimic such an effect, but the results in-game are always sub-par no matter how good the maps, as there is always a clear mis-match between map and mesh. These meshes below are the best I have found in terms of actually DOING it.

 

I have tried with both the Vanilla skeleton, and XPMSE 3.13.

 

(*some of you may recall I have also previously attempted bludgeoning this mesh set into a morph for use in CITRUS some time ago - that was, and is, still way beyond my ability, and the results were predictably unsuccessful)

 

 

Here's some pics of what I'm trying to fix:

 

                   

 

All these shots are taken at 50% weight of the mesh in-game as orginally skinned with the Vanilla skeleton (*ignore these textures, they're my standard UNP/7B set I use, not strictly intended for this mesh set).

 

Original meshes are Elmanouche's muscle mod:  http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/8873/?

 

My intent here is to make a "morph" of these, using a weight range from the existing meshes of approx. 30%-70% as my _0 and _1. Some slight reshaping would be applied if necessary.

 

When view in 3dsMax, you can get an idea of the kinds of things that are going on with the skin (*possibly UVs too?) :

 

         

 

As you can see, it does seem odd...

 

Here are the original _0 and _1 unmodded meshes themselves:

 

Test Meshes - Unmodified - 01.rar

 

 

 

Are these actually salvageable? Can *I* actually salvage these? Or am I just pushing shit uphill here (ie: is this all just way beyond my pay-grade)?

[Vioxsis]

Hmmm i'm not really sure why you are having problems, my first thought was skeleton but then you posted

"I have tried with both the Vanilla skeleton, and XPMSE 3.13."

Which are the only acceptable skeletons to use.

 

So i decided to try doing it myself.

 

I imported the skeleton, then the 2 meshes you posted.

Then i picked an old version of CITRUS (from before it was named that) as i know the weights are good because i did them.

dragged it in and made it match the shape of the _0 mesh.

Then used skinwrap with face deformation set and blend to base mesh on with a distance of 0.5 (to help avoid hard weights) and weigh all points (i all ways have this on even when i don't think its needed).

 

Once done i checked it to make sure it worked like it should, moved a few bones, all looked good.

 

Exported a _0 nif at 30% and a _1 at 70%.

Edited the nifs like always and did a quick test in game, nothing looked wrong, no spikes, weight slider works.

 

 

The dismember partition is lazily done to just slot 32 and the weights will need to be corrected at the neck, wrists and ankles to match the head, hand and feet meshes.

 

Also the weights are vanilla so no boobs, butt or belly.

 

 

Though on a side note the _1 body looks really familiar, I'm sure i fit (not yet) CITRUS to it to make sure there where enough polys on the belly to do it.

Did it not make it into CITRUS?

 

weights.7z

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Hmmm i'm not really sure why you are having problems, my first thought was skeleton but then you posted

"I have tried with both the Vanilla skeleton, and XPMSE 3.13."

Which are the only acceptable skeletons to use.

 

So i decided to try doing it myself.

 

I imported the skeleton, then the 2 meshes you posted.

Then i picked an old version of CITRUS (from before it was named that) as i know the weights are good because i did them.

dragged it in and made it match the shape of the _0 mesh.

Then used skinwrap with face deformation set and blend to base mesh on with a distance of 0.5 (to help avoid hard weights) and weigh all points (i all ways have this on even when i don't think its needed).

 

Once done i checked it to make sure it worked like it should, moved a few bones, all looked good.

 

Exported a _0 nif at 30% and a _1 at 70%.

Edited the nifs like always and did a quick test in game, nothing looked wrong, no spikes, weight slider works.

 

 

The dismember partition is lazily done to just slot 32 and the weights will need to be corrected at the neck, wrists and ankles to match the head, hand and feet meshes.

 

Also the weights are vanilla so no boobs, butt or belly.

 

 

Though on a side note the _1 body looks really familiar, I'm sure i fit (not yet) CITRUS to it to make sure there where enough polys on the belly to do it.

Did it not make it into CITRUS?

 

 

 

How the... I... you... Wow... that's some SERIOUS Black Magic!!

 

Vioxis, you are a LEGEND!!!  I cannot believe you did this - once again, I am in your debt, big-time!! Thank-you SO MUCH for your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AND - thanks a TON for posting the play-by-play!!! That kinda thing is a MASSIVE help for those of us like me whose knowledge otuside of a fairly narrow band of 3dsMax useage is minimal.

 

*One very last question here, if it's okay - I am assuming I can make a 3dsmax "Morpher" with the original _0 and _1 hands & feet meshes for this mod to match them, but what should I do with the head? 

 

(*Plan is to make a full morphed set, & release as a new body "Modders' Resource" for free & open use, clothed & unclothed mesh-set. Authors: Elmanouche, Vioxis, FastestDog. Do I have your permission to go ahead?)

 

[Vioxsis]

How the... I... you... Wow... that's some SERIOUS Black Magic!!

 

Vioxis, you are a LEGEND!!!  I cannot believe you did this - once again, I am in your debt, big-time!! Thank-you SO MUCH for your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AND - thanks a TON for posting the play-by-play!!! That kinda thing is a MASSIVE help for those of us like me whose knowledge otuside of a fairly narrow band of 3dsMax useage is minimal.

 

*One very last question here, if it's okay - I am assuming I can make a 3dsmax "Morpher" with the original _0 and _1 hands & feet meshes for this mod to match them, but what should I do with the head? 

 

(*Plan is to make a full morphed set, & release as a new body "Modders' Resource" for free & open use, clothed & unclothed mesh-set. Authors: Elmanouche, Vioxis, FastestDog. Do I have your permission to go ahead?)

The real black magic came almost a year ago, the weights i transferred to the mesh where 90% hand painted.   

They are nigh on perfect, if i do say so myself.

 

 

It never even entered my head that with the body at 30-70 the hands, head and feet would miss match. 

Since i still have everything set up it was easy for me to add a second morph above the other for the seams and export.

Also i corrected the weights there as well. Dismember is still at just 32.

 

 

And yes of cause you have my permission, Also my name has 2 'S's most people miss out the first one.

 

 

Weights V2.7z

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

 

How the... I... you... Wow... that's some SERIOUS Black Magic!!

 

Vioxis, you are a LEGEND!!!  I cannot believe you did this - once again, I am in your debt, big-time!! Thank-you SO MUCH for your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AND - thanks a TON for posting the play-by-play!!! That kinda thing is a MASSIVE help for those of us like me whose knowledge otuside of a fairly narrow band of 3dsMax useage is minimal.

 

*One very last question here, if it's okay - I am assuming I can make a 3dsmax "Morpher" with the original _0 and _1 hands & feet meshes for this mod to match them, but what should I do with the head? 

 

(*Plan is to make a full morphed set, & release as a new body "Modders' Resource" for free & open use, clothed & unclothed mesh-set. Authors: Elmanouche, Vioxis, FastestDog. Do I have your permission to go ahead?)

The real black magic came almost a year ago, the weights i transferred to the mesh where 90% hand painted. 

They are nigh on perfect, if i do say so myself.

 

 

It never even entered my head that with the body at 30-70 the hands, head and feet would miss match. 

Since i still have everything set up it was easy for me to add a second morph above the other for the seams and export.

Also i corrected the weights there as well. Dismember is still at just 32.

 

 

Yeow... I've done a *little* weight-painting, and it's HARD (dipping a cat's rear in paint & then pushing it around on a linoleum floor to try & paint a Lichtenstein hard... and the cat will scratch you less). 

 

Thanks a *TON* for the hands feet & head - I will polish up the Dismembers (*I'll try mimicking the Vanilla partitioning), make some underwear for a SFW version, take some happy-snaps & get it uploaded! YAY!

 

 

 

 

And yes of cause you have my permission, Also my name has 2 'S's most people miss out the first one.

 

 

*GLEEP!* Sorry - I think I've been mis-spelling your name in like, every single instance that I've used it up to this point! I'll make sure it's right from now on! Thanks Vioxsis!

 

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

UPDATE: Okay people - basic SFW mesh set is almost done! Head over to the teaser shot & see what you think.

 

 

TEASER SHOT

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Okay - I made the male meshes for the body mod, & they *seem* okay, but something is definitely up. There is a weird little flickering seamline visible at ankles, wrists, and neck. This is NOT visible on the stock _0 - _1 vanilla male replacer I released the other day, nor on the game's own default meshes, so it's definitely something I've done wrong...

 

Fitbody MALE meshes.rar

 

 

 > I loaded the _0 mesh up in Max, added Smooth to all, Morpher to all, then imported the _1 mesh. I selected all the body verts, then DE-selected all those at the seams. All is ready to go.

 

 > I went to each of the _0 components in turn - body, shorts, belt - & added the matching _1 item. Set each Morpher value to "35".

 

 > I hide all the _1 items.

 

 > I go to each of the _0 meshes, "Collapse To" the Morpher, select "Yes" when prompted, export the _0 as usual.

 

(*First time I did this, I just made the _0 variant as that was all that needed to change. Everything exploded in game, so I figured I had to do both the _0 & _1 for the next attempt)

 

 > I hit Undo, Undo, Undo to de-collapse the Morphers, go to the _0 body, make sure all the verts are selected, and morph it to 100. Morph shorts & belt to 100 as well.

 

 > "Collapse To" all the Morphers, export the _1.

 

 > Do all the usual routine in NifSkope, copy+paste the BSLighting, change the NiTriShapeData values, Update tangent Spaces, all seems kosher.

 

 > Weight slider works fine in-game, but the seams flicker at all weight settings (incl. _0 and _1 & all in-between). I don't get it - what did I do wrong?

 

 

[Vioxsis]

What skeleton did you use in max?

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see (just about, try squinting) that when the skin data is toggled off (top image is 'on' bottom is 'off') it aligns with the correctly working male body and with it on it moves away.

 

Fixing stuff like this is tedious...

But you could try, duplicating the mesh (ctrl + V)(make sure to select copy) and removing all modifiers (do not collapse) then on the still skinned mesh add a morph modifier at the very top of the stack (at least above the skin modifier, probably best under the BSDismember) and use the duplicate as the target. Set it to 100% and export (do the same for max weight) and that should hopefully fix it.

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

What skeleton did you use in max?

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see (just about, try squinting) that when the skin data is toggled off (top image is 'on' bottom is 'off') it aligns with the correctly working male body and with it on it moves away.

 

Fixing stuff like this is tedious...

But you could try, duplicating the mesh (ctrl + V)(make sure to select copy) and removing all modifiers (do not collapse) then on the still skinned mesh add a morph modifier at the very top of the stack (at least above the skin modifier, probably best under the BSDismember) and use the duplicate as the target. Set it to 100% and export (do the same for max weight) and that should hopefully fix it.

 

I used the the game's own Vanilla Male skeleton.

 

I'll try that process (I *think* I get it), & report back!

 

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

 

What skeleton did you use in max?

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see (just about, try squinting) that when the skin data is toggled off (top image is 'on' bottom is 'off') it aligns with the correctly working male body and with it on it moves away.

 

Fixing stuff like this is tedious...

But you could try, duplicating the mesh (ctrl + V)(make sure to select copy) and removing all modifiers (do not collapse) then on the still skinned mesh add a morph modifier at the very top of the stack (at least above the skin modifier, probably best under the BSDismember) and use the duplicate as the target. Set it to 100% and export (do the same for max weight) and that should hopefully fix it.

 

I used the the game's own Vanilla Male skeleton.

 

I'll try that process (I *think* I get it), & report back!

 

Damn. No - I don't quite understand. Are you able to re-phrase the instructions at all? Sorry!

 

[Vioxsis]

I'll try.

 

So assuming you have a skeleton and the body imported already.

Select the body mesh and hit the CTRL key and then the V key.

A box will pop up, make sure it is set to copy and you can name the mesh something else (like target).

Select the copied mesh and delete the BSDismember and skin data (right click it and pick delete, or highlight and click the little bin icon (just under the stack box))

 

Once done select the original body mesh and highlight the skin modifier and add the morph modifier so it sits just above the skin data.

Set the copied mesh "target" as the target and set it to 100%.

Add a smooth group modifier (if no already done) set it to 18 or 21 (depending on country) so it can legally drink and export.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 100% weight will need the same treatment.

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

I'll try.

 

So assuming you have a skeleton and the body imported already.

Select the body mesh and hit the CTRL key and then the V key.

A box will pop up, make sure it is set to copy and you can name the mesh something else (like target).

Select the copied mesh and delete the BSDismember and skin data (right click it and pick delete, or highlight and click the little bin icon (just under the stack box))

 

Once done select the original body mesh and highlight the skin modifier and add the morph modifier so it sits just above the skin data.

Set the copied mesh "target" as the target and set it to 100%.

Add a smooth group modifier (if no already done) set it to 18 or 21 (depending on country) so it can legally drink and export.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 100% weight will need the same treatment.

 

 

*Do I get rid of the Morpher modifier prior to export? What to do with it has me stumped - when I delete it, the mesh no longer morphs & just reverts back to whatever it was, when I leave it in without collapsing it, the nif has a little "morph" entry under NiTriShape, with a little flag, and it crashes the game.

 

*Also - the mesh you have opened there looks like the _0 version from the set I posted, yes? So, I'm taking the _0 version, re-opening it, applying the above instructions to it, [*something happens with the Morpher modifier here?*], then exporting, then rinse & repeat for the _1? SO - this takes the meshes that have the flickering problem and fixes them?

 

[Vioxsis]

Hmm, it works for me, which is odd. I use 2 different exporters for 2014 and after testing it works like you describe for one of them and like i expected for the other..

 

So i went and tried doing it myself, in game there was no seam at the neck but at the wrists there were. So that quick fix was no good anyway.

 

 

So that means going the long way.

 

First you will want to import a skeleton (XPMSE and 100% vanilla only) then import your body (0 or 1).

Duplicate it and hide the duplicate so its not in the way.

 

Delete or collapse the modifier stack so its just an editable mesh.

 

Then you will need to import the Hands, feet that correlate with the body you started with (0 or 1).

Snap the verts on the body to their hand/foot counterpart.

For the neck its a little more annoying you can drag in the head for the _1 but the _0 is in the .tri.

You can import the vanilla body and snap the verts to match there (the easier/best choice).

 

You could also just use the vanilla body for all the seams but it always feels off..

 

Once thats done hide all the the meshes bar your body, then unhide the duplicate.

add skinwrap and point it at the duplicate Set falloff to 0.02/0.01 and weight all points.

You will still probably need to clean up the weights at the wrists/neck, but other than that it should be a 100% to 99.9% copy.

 

Toggle the skin modifier on an off to make sure nothing moves out of place.

Add the dismember and export to test in game (remember to set the weight to match the nif)

 

If all looks well go back to max and import the other body, remove or collapse its modifiers and import the hand, feet, body/head and snap its verts back into place.

 

Then on the first body you did add a morph modifier to it and set the other as its target. morph and export then check it in game.

 

 

With any luck that will be the end of it, its long and tedious work but looks to be the only way to fix it.

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Hmm, it works for me, which is odd. I use 2 different exporters for 2014 and after testing it works like you describe for one of them and like i expected for the other..

 

So i went and tried doing it myself, in game there was no seam at the neck but at the wrists there were. So that quick fix was no good anyway.

 

 

So that means going the long way.

 

First you will want to import a skeleton (XPMSE and 100% vanilla only) then import your body (0 or 1).

Duplicate it and hide the duplicate so its not in the way.

 

Delete or collapse the modifier stack so its just an editable mesh.

 

Then you will need to import the Hands, feet that correlate with the body you started with (0 or 1).

Snap the verts on the body to their hand/foot counterpart.

For the neck its a little more annoying you can drag in the head for the _1 but the _0 is in the .tri.

You can import the vanilla body and snap the verts to match there (the easier/best choice).

 

You could also just use the vanilla body for all the seams but it always feels off..

 

Once thats done hide all the the meshes bar your body, then unhide the duplicate.

add skinwrap and point it at the duplicate Set falloff to 0.02/0.01 and weight all points.

You will still probably need to clean up the weights at the wrists/neck, but other than that it should be a 100% to 99.9% copy.

 

Toggle the skin modifier on an off to make sure nothing moves out of place.

Add the dismember and export to test in game (remember to set the weight to match the nif)

 

If all looks well go back to max and import the other body, remove or collapse its modifiers and import the hand, feet, body/head and snap its verts back into place.

 

Then on the first body you did add a morph modifier to it and set the other as its target. morph and export then check it in game.

 

 

With any luck that will be the end of it, its long and tedious work but looks to be the only way to fix it.

 

*Couple of quick questions:

 

 - Snapping the verts = manually making the X Y Z positions of each individual vert at the seam match the position of the corresponding vert on the other mesh (head, hands, feet), or using the Snap Toggle for each in turn as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hal8iiWH5zY, correct?

 

 - The body mesh I have used for all this is a Vanilla asset - it was used by the authors of the "Better Males Underwear Slip" meshes - but I cannot locate it in the Vanilla files (it's there - I looked in all the usual places, but it must be a part of something else). I used the one they had packaged with theirs, but I fixed the skin on the inner right thigh where one of the authors of that mod had not. No problems are evident to me in my fixed version that I used for the base underwear model I released - "Underwear Replacer - Vanilla Male". It seems to only happen when I try to morph things. Here are both sets for a comparison:

 

Original Version.rar                         UNDERWEAR - Vanilla Male WIPs - my fixed skins version.rar

 

Do you see the same problem? Have I baked bugs into my meshes to begin with?

 

 

 

 

[Vioxsis]

Yea, like in the video, you don't need to attach the meshes together though, nor do you need to weld anything. Just set the snap tool to vertex and drag the vert in to place.

 

And as for the meshes heres some pictures.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have 3 male body meshes and the vanilla male skeleton in the scene, one is vanilla (vanilla), one is yours (fix) and the other is the 'original version' (orig).

All the bodies are the _1 and in the pic its a close up of the right wrist.

 

As you can see both bodies are not lined up with the vanilla body, yours more so then BM.

 

But you don't have to worry that its something you have done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the skin data is toggled off (on all of them) both yours and the BM mesh align at the same point, and not with the vanilla mesh.

The BM mesh you worked on must of used a skeleton that was scaled differently to the original vanilla skeleton.

And you then working on top of it exacerbated the problem.

 

The mesh though is not bugged it just needs everything to be realigned, what i posted above will do that.

Just make sure you are using a 100% vanilla skeleton (one you unpacked yourself) or the XPMSE one in max.

 

 

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Prior to doing the above, out of curiousity I just tested creation of a completely different 2-piece male body comprising the legs from the default underwear body, and the torso from prisoner rags, and a freshly extracted male skeleton, and I got EXACTLY the same flickering seams. Is it possible I'm just doing something really wrong here which is causing all of this?

 

2-piece male body mesh.rar

 

Additionally, when I imported first the Vanilla Male 0 body, and this new body, and I right-clicked the skin & switched it from "On" to "Off", as far as I can tell from the X Y Z co-ords, the verts around the seams are exactly aligned. I'm really left scratching my head.

 

*I use 3dsMax 2012.

 

For reference, here is a completely unaltered, stock, Vanilla Male 0 mesh after having been imported > Smooth 2 > exported through my 3dsMax:

 

Stock Vanilla Male 0.rar

[Vioxsis]

Prior to doing the above, out of curiousity I just tested creation of a completely different 2-piece male body comprising the legs from the default underwear body, and the torso from prisoner rags, and a freshly extracted male skeleton, and I got EXACTLY the same flickering seams. Is it possible I'm just doing something really wrong here which is causing all of this?

 

2-piece male body mesh.rar

 

Additionally, when I imported first the Vanilla Male 0 body, and this new body, and I right-clicked the skin & switched it from "On" to "Off", as far as I can tell from the X Y Z co-ords, the verts around the seams are exactly aligned. I'm really left scratching my head.

 

*I use 3dsMax 2012.

 

For reference, here is a completely unaltered, stock, Vanilla Male 0 mesh after having been imported > Smooth 2 > exported through my 3dsMax:

 

Stock Vanilla Male 0.rar

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your stock vanilla and the vanilla i extracted from my bsa.

When the skin data is toggled off they don't align.

 

I'll try and explain it as best i can.

When you export a nif from max the skin data gets baked down to the mesh.

 

For instance take the vanilla female hand and skeleton nif and import them in to max.

When you toggle the skin off the hand gets bigger.

This is because it was exported from the male skeleton by bethesda, and the 'edit mesh' keeps the 'memory' of the last skeleton it was attached too.

 

This is why i compared the meshes with the skin data disabled, it shows the skin data in its 'memory' (in this case your max scene).

When the skin data is enabled it matches its data to the skeleton in the scene.

 

 

Now here is the thing, none of them are correct not the vanilla mesh not yours nor mine.

You will never be able to match someone else's scene 100%, but it does not matter at all.

All you need to do is be incorrect, correctly.

 

 

When you import a nif it attaches to the skeleton in the scene, now if its correct or not is meaningless, it is simply both

All you need to do is match your bodys seams with the vanillas seams

Once the base mesh is aligned you need to add fresh skin data to the mesh (with skin wrap don't copy and paste)

 

And once thats done you will have an incorrectly, correctly aligned mesh.

 

 

I've aligned bodies many times for people/modding projects and this is how its done, I now it sounds weird and that its long tedious work but that is what it is. If your doing something wrong i don't know, unless i was to watch over you shoulder as you made every click i doubt i will ever be able to say.

I do know your not incompetent, and you have been doing this a while right? I'm sure you understand what your doing and why you do it to tell if what your doing is not right.

 

 

But simply using a vanilla body (with its skin data being correctly incorrect) and snapping to its verts will get you a incorrectly correct mesh.

 

 

 

 

 

This is your '2-piece male body mesh' _0 nif and the vanilla male hand mesh _0.nif

I zoomed in to as much as possible and both have their skin data enabled.

You can easily see the gap.

 

With it disabled the 2 meshes move further away in opposite directions from each other.

 

 

 

 

 

I only posted the pictures to show that you can see it in max, and even though the hand mesh moved with its skin data off, when the hand has it applied it was "correct" for me and my scene.