I need help with a Custom body mod I am making, NECK SEAM GAP

[toxsickcity]

Hi All,

 

The Last week I have been trying so hard to make a Custom Body fit to the head in game.

I have a large neck seam and have tried so many methods to make them close up.

 

I have actually gotten fairly good at working with NIF files and going from 3d Studio max etc,

I have successfully ported a few armors and clothes from skyrim... so I am learning fast...

 

I use outfit studio to import the body and head parts and export them,

I do this as this should give me reference and allow me to modify the neck area properly...!

 

I import into 3d max, and work the mesh using magnetic vertex moving, and the mesh in 3DSMAX has no more gaps it looks great in 3dmax...

 

after exporting the body only..

ingame the gap looks alot smaller but still exsist, espeically when a NPC moves around the gap opens.

 

I have also tried fiddle with texture files but makes no difference

 

Can anyone share some info or point me in the right direction?

 

My main concerns are, why does gaps appear when NPC moves!!?

and how can I properly seal the neck seam?

 

My screen show is showing my progress! haha

 

Thanks

 

[Vioxsis]

You need to adjust the weights at the seam edge to match the ones on the head seam.

[toxsickcity]

I didn't think to look at the weights.. good idea..

And thanks so much for the reply

 

So, I have had a look and seen the head and body already match up pretty good with the weights. The colours blend smoothly between neck and body

 

So I experimented with changing heavy weight on neck area which made it have bigger gaps

And I tried removing all weights which made the gap small but no better than my screen shots

 

I understand fo4 has no heavy and light nifs like skyrim, am I suppose to pain the neck a certain colour?

 

Also so matter what paint I do. I still face the issue when npc moves around the neck seams open up. I can see the skin moving or shifting as the npc moves around.

 

Does fallout 4 require additional method to do something with Nif to say the vertex at the very end are the neck joint? Or anything special that makes the skin properly weld to the head?

 

Any other ideas?

[Vioxsis]

With weights at the seam edge you need to be pretty precise, in 3ds max you can use the weight table to read the exact amount each bone has assigned and then write the amount to the corresponding vertex on the body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the head showing 0.702 for chest and 0.298 for chest skin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And CBBE has 0.702 chest and 0.298 for chest skin

 

You simply (painstakingly) have to look at the head weights and copy them to the body, vertex by vertex.

[toxsickcity]

Hi Vioxsis,

 

I have a small issue, I am unsure on this with 3dmax.

 

Currently I am editing my mesh via the modifier list, I always have the following in the modifier box (bs subindex modifier, skin, editable mesh... with 5 suboptions) I always open the + on editable mesh and select vertex, than asks me

"a modifier exists in the stack that depends on topology, blah blah may have undesirable effects"

I always say yes

I then Edit my meshes and I can always export the NIf safely the game sees my edits ok etc..

 

 

...

 

The other method is right click the object convert to editable mesh.

This creates an unsafe Nif and unusable in game as it strips skin and bs subindex modifier from the modifier list...

 

Personally I like the modifier section as it works for my game...

 

Other problem I had is if I add a editable mesh from modifiers list it crashes my 3dmax every time

 

Can you comment on my method? Am I editing properly?

 

...

 

Lastly, I am unsure how to make my object cbbe display the paint colours like your screenshot, I change my view to be edged faces and consistent colours view port..

 

Thanks mate

[Vioxsis]

Hi Vioxsis,

 

I have a small issue, I am unsure on this with 3dmax.

 

Currently I am editing my mesh via the modifier list, I always have the following in the modifier box (bs subindex modifier, skin, editable mesh... with 5 suboptions) I always open the + on editable mesh and select vertex, than asks me

"a modifier exists in the stack that depends on topology, blah blah may have undesirable effects"

I always say yes

I then Edit my meshes and I can always export the NIf safely the game sees my edits ok etc..

That warning pops up due to the skin modifier being in the stack, if all your doing is moving vertexes around then you can safely click yes.

But if your removing (polys, verts) or adding (polys, verts, modifiers) then the bs subindex will need to be replaced and the skin modifier will need to be checked (and possibly removed and redone).

 

The other method is right click the object convert to editable mesh.

This creates an unsafe Nif and unusable in game as it strips skin and bs subindex modifier from the modifier list...

 

Personally I like the modifier section as it works for my game...

 

Other problem I had is if I add a editable mesh from modifiers list it crashes my 3dmax every time

 

Can you comment on my method? Am I editing properly?

Well if you need to do some heavy editing to the mesh (not just moving verts) collapsing the stack to an editable mesh/poly is better practice (will bake down and remove all modifiers).

 

And for the crashing it could just be a max bug, there might be a hot fix or service pack for what ever version of max you have.

Does it happen with just imported meshes? or anything, say if you create a box and apply an editable mesh to it does that crash it to?

 

 

 

Lastly, I am unsure how to make my object cbbe display the paint colours like your screenshot

And

I dunno how to select single vertex so I can see which number it is in the vertex list of weights

 

Thanks mate

To show weighting in max you need to select the skin modifier and click edit envelopes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Under that in the select section is a check box for vertices check it and you can select them in the view port.

And under that is the bone list for easy selection of bones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you scroll down you will find a button named weight table, click it and the a data table window will open.

You can then filter the results using the drop down box bottom left.

 

If you have a vertex selected and filter for selected vertices it will be the only one shown.

 

You can then just type in the numbers you want for a specific bone, that way you can match weights with the head.

Due note that the weights work on a 1 to 0 basis and it will always make the sum total weights add up to 1.

So if you have 2 bones with .5 each and you change one to .6 the .1 will be taken from the other leaving it at .4.

[toxsickcity]

Hi again,

 

Thanks for replying again,

 

Ok I have seen the paint's show up and I can see that 1 vertex on cbbe body has 3 bone weights totaling 1

Something like .357, .367, .276

 

 

The head object's vertex in the same area has 1 bone only, chest skin. Equal 1

 

So should I be making on my cbbe object for those 3 bones

Chest skin as 1 and the other 2 bones change to 0?

Or should I remove bones?

 

Is there anything else related to why the seams open up if the npc moves around? Or is this strictly the weighting?

[Vioxsis]

Hi again,

 

Thanks for replying again,

 

Ok I have seen the paint's show up and I can see that 1 vertex on cbbe body has 3 bone weights totaling 1

Something like .357, .367, .276

 

 

The head object's vertex in the same area has 1 bone only, chest skin. Equal 1

 

So should I be making on my cbbe object for those 3 bones

Chest skin as 1 and the other 2 bones change to 0?

Or should I remove bones?

Chest skin 1 (it will take all weight from other bones making them 0) then in the weight table window you can click edit (top left) and then click remove zero weights to clean things up.

Don't change the heads weights just the bodies, that way you keep maximum compatibility with other mods.

 

Is there anything else related to why the seams open up if the npc moves around? Or is this strictly the weighting?

If it opens up when it moves it is completely down to weights, if the gap stays the same in motion, its down to vertex position.

[ousnius]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think one needs to have the "HEAD" bone in a NIF for the Head_skin bone to work, and the "CHEST" bone (with a little of weights) for the Chest_skin bone to work.

[toxsickcity]

Much to my surprise, luck I run a 4K 40" TV for my display, I do this side by side,

to my viewing pleasure I am seeing oddity!

 

I am about to edit one of the vertex for the Head / Body,

And the bones are different.

 

eg.

HEAD:

chest skin .75

right collarbone .25

 

body

chest skin .75

Left collarbone .25

 

Do I do as you said, for body,

make chest 1, click the remove zero weights to clean it, then add right collarbone and add .25 to it?

[toxsickcity]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think one needs to have the "HEAD" bone in a NIF for the Head_skin bone to work, and the "CHEST" bone (with a little of weights) for the Chest_skin bone to work.

 

I am unsure, but in NIFSCOPE, the default body nifs 

the bone that is the highest.. ie high as the head..

 

is Neck_skin bone

 

I have only seen the head bone on the head nifs

[toxsickcity]

I DONT BELIEVE MY EYES!!!

 

It's fixed.. both the gaps and the seam...

the weights are 100% the issue I was having.

 

 

you guys are GEMS!!! thanks so much...

 

Can I ask what 3DS Max version is best? I run 2016 and it's crashing way too often, even after adding sp3 and sp4...

I tried deleting appdata local and roaming and not much better..

I think I will grab 2013 if I can find it! unless you guys can recommend a stable one?

 

THANKS AGAIN

 

[Vioxsis]

I DONT BELIEVE MY EYES!!!

 

It's fixed.. both the gaps and the seam...

the weights are 100% the issue I was having.

 

 

you guys are GEMS!!! thanks so much...

 

Nice, good to see you got everything done while i was a sleep.

 

Can I ask what 3DS Max version is best? I run 2016 and it's crashing way too often, even after adding sp3 and sp4...

I tried deleting appdata local and roaming and not much better..

I think I will grab 2013 if I can find it! unless you guys can recommend a stable one?

 

THANKS AGAIN

I have both 2016 (x64 18.0 sp1) and 2013 (x64 15.0 pu6) installed at this moment in time.

2016 is very stable for me, and where i do all my modeling.

The only reason i have 2013 is for the "official" plug-in and HCT, and other then when i need the use of them i rarely use 2013 and is definitely less stable then my 2016 install.

 

But as to which is best i would say 2016 (i've used 2012, 2013, 2014 <this was a nice stable version) and 2016).

The reasons for going with 2016 over say, 2014, is due to opensubdiv quad chamfer and improved cut tool.