Race Menu Eyes issue

[Miurtis]

Hello you all.

 

I suppose this question is much more than known and dealed, often aka "the misaligned eyes glitch" or "Why does it happens to my eyes right now?". I just had that matter from some weeks ago creating a new NPC... This is Agnes:

 

 

Cute and a great assistant, but... there's something wrong in her eyes. They look kinda misaligned, indeed, a bit lower than they're supposed to be... or at least seems so. Well... is not her fault: it happens with any race and genre. I looked for a solution to that matter, and I found many topics that talk about. I tryed every suggestion I found there, which are resumed, basically, in reinstall mods, looking for a right order. So I did so: I reinstalled everything (even the whole skyrim vanilla, MO and DLCs), and I started from the begining, installing just the basic mods that I need, following the order: after vanilla and DLCs... RaceMenu > Realistic > Skeleton (XP32MS) > Body Base (CBBE) > Skin (Fair Skin Complexion). I even tryed every order combination of all them, unistalling and installing each time. Nothing changed.

 

I thought  that was a conflict with skeleton meshes, so I tryed to do it without skeleton. The matter persisted.

 

My last attempt was RaceMenu, using its Sculpt tab. It doesn't solve nothing (is no much than an incompleted -but really promising- tool), but I found something interesting... The eyes are not misaligned:

 

 

 

 

 

Iris are in their right position. If eyes were really misaligned, iris should show other curve, with a moved center. But curve and center are fine. Looking a better view (showing just eyes and hair -for a good contrast background-), seems to give a clue:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The eye-fail seems related not to a position but to some triangle meshes. In fact, eye texture is still there. Invisible, but it is... behind those triangles:

 

So the matter are not the eyes position, but those triangles under eyelids that makes eyes textures behind them invisible. That causes this cut off eyes effect similar to a misalignament (a false misalignament).

 

I'm not a modder, and I have no idea about modding neither programming. Just work with really basic tutorials for really basic (and common) homemade add-ons. How to create your own improved follower, home, enchant... in CK. That kind of stuff as the noob as I am. So if there is anyone who can explain me this issue, if it is usual, where the matter is, or how can it be ifixed, it will be really much appreciated. Agnes deserves much more than an invisible upper eyelid.

 

In the moment I took the pics I was using:

00 Skyrim.esm

01 Update.esm

02 Dawnguard.esm

03 HeartFires.esm

04 Dragonborn.esm

05 SGHairPackBase.esm

06 SkyUI.esp

07 SkyrimConfigMenu.esp

08 RaceMenu.esp

09 RaceMenuPlugin.esp

10 Frecklemania.esp

11 SGHairPackAIO.esp

 

Besides XP32MS, CBBE 3.3b and Fair Skin 7.6

 

All mods installed by Mod Organizer v1.2.17 (as you can see, just really basic mods).

 

Thank you for put up with this drag post, and excuse my english.

[Dubhorizon]

I understand what you mean, but I don't think it's an issue. you could try adjusting them with sculpt mode to reduce their imbalance. I personally feel it's better this way. It's more realistic since all real human faces are misaligned. It's what makes a face beautiful in our mind.

[Miurtis]

I understand what you mean, but I don't think it's an issue. you could try adjusting them with sculpt mode to reduce their imbalance. I personally feel it's better this way. It's more realistic since all real human faces are misaligned. It's what makes a face beautiful in our mind.

Totally agree. In fact, Skyrim face meshes are not exactly symmetrical, giving a much more natural look, and I like that.

 

About use Sculpt mode, that's a great idea. I gave it a try, and looks a good way. I don't know how does it work, and this is what I learned about:

 

Left Mouse Button: rotates the model

Middle Mouse Button (only roll): zoom in/out

Right Mouse Button: does anything (smooths)

 

Seems that there is only one button to interact, with an unique default action. It clearly moves slightly the mesh, but I can't control it. The only clue about what are you doing is a tip in interface that says: "brush: smooth", so that's what I'm supposedly doing. There's no way to define by your own what do you want to do, neither what intesity/direction do you want to apply. Just only 'smooths', and it does only in one way, so what you do is irreversible unless you reload the model.

 

Besides the fact that there is no other button in Sculpt mode interface (except visual model view) such 'save changes' or 'revert step', that means that anytime you go too much far editing a model, the only way to correct it is to reload it and redo all your steps. To save it in a free slot of regular tab doesn't works: once you reload it, changes are not applied.

 

I'm too simpleton with this things, and my style is to 'count clicks' (2 clicks in this point... 1 click in this other one...), memorizing the whole sequence, and repeating it each time I reload the model, in an endless trial and error process. That's not a matter for my patience, but  I'd thank any interface button in sculpt mode as 'save changes'. Of course, buttons for 'revert' or 'what do you want your clicks to do?' would be great.

 

Given these circumstances, let's see what I got so far:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agnes has fully recovered her beautiful eyes. That weird look in Sculpt mode editor seems not to reflect in game looking. Is not the exact appearence as if she was designed without matters (just use RaceManu and go), but is closer due the situation. And, luckly, using just 3 clicks (plus an extra click to solve a little mouth glith).

 

Once solved that part, I found other question, related with the original matter: the eyelids...

 

 

 

 

 

There are no eyelids! Eyelashes are in pure air. Is not so annoying, unless she blinks. In fact, Eyelid texture is still there, behind the eyes, but they don't match at all with the mesh. Yes, they are covering the eyes when she blinks (in a weird way), but is like they're not 'connected' to the eyelashes. Though the worst part is that I must edit the model to make the trick as they were well placed, I mean that "Why don't the eyelids works fine as default"? So small and simple face part, and so problematic.

[Miurtis]

Ok... one matter solved. Is not the most essential, but it is a progress. Just updated my version of Racemenu to 3.0. Now I got a much more funtional sculpt mode, with many more options than only smooth (move, intensity, even revert and save!). That's the good news.

 

The bad news is that this doesn't solve the matter. I can get the eyes nicely visible, but those 'invisble' eyelids triangles are still there and, the worst part, it involves to alterate the face meshes drasticaly in order to conceal the issue. Tha's not a solution but a blotch that will be unmasked in a minute ingame. Any expresion morph turn into a grotesque face due the edited mesh, and that happens often with Skyrim personality/emotion system.

 

Anyways, I can't imagine passing through all this process anytime I need to create an appearance (for my PC or any customized NPC).

 

RaceMenu's Sculpt mode is not a solution. The solution, in my opinion, is to solve the matter with those triangles, and get meshes and textures rightly matched. I wonder to have essential knowdlege to do so by my own, but I haven't.

 

By the way, I Just re-installed all today, again. The game, DLCs, SKSE, MO, mods.... checking every single mod/program to install the very last version of any of them. And maybe I'll do it again this afternoon, but I think the result will be the same.

[Dubhorizon]

Aha, those invisible things you can fix them by editing the eyes. I've seen it as well. If you go close to the eyes in the portrait you will notice them. You must unclick editability from the face and click the eyes, use the Move brush, set its range to 0.1 and go really close, if you zoom the head in the portrait close enough to the eyes you will notice them.

[Dubhorizon]

They are those black shades above her Iris in the picture I attached just move them up a bit

[Miurtis]

Yes, those triangles meshes seems to be the root of the matter. In fact, the matter are two lines of triangles:

 

That shadow has a reason to be: to emulate the eyelid function. It must conceal the eye when it expands. So, is not weird that we find it there. But that's also the reason of all this subject: the gap appears becauses  the eyelid mesh is doing its function, with or without texture. The matter is that is mismatched with its texture, which is attached to a next line of triangle meshes (marked in green, in the picture).  Instead the eyeline original texture, the eyeline mesh uses the eye socket textures (behind the eye ball), that occupies its place.

 

Well...looks so easy as to place, patiently, the points, and match them. I managed to "correct" it moving two lines of triangles, getting a perfectly matched right eye (not so with the left eye). All this with almost no weird effect during blinking. The process has been -theorycaly- simple:

 

(I know... is a shabby explanation with MS Paint. Just think that the real process was much more elaborated).

 

Now, the question is: Should I do all this, once and once, everytime I want to use RaceMenu?