Black Warpaint?

[Guest corespore]

Let me clarify the normal map issue.

 

When you get a body texture (e.g. SG ) you get diffuse maps (the skin color), these can have an alpha channel that defines their transparency/translucency; and normal maps (sometimes some other "maps" as well) with alphas as well. Warpaints come as tint masks, they are grayscale and have no alpha channel, their transparency/translucency is defined by black; i.e. the darker the color the more transparent it is (pure white = opaque, pure black = completely transparent)

 

Then, as i explain it, those are applied to the mesh in layers if you will. Diffuse goes first (with its own alphas) then the warpaints get applied (tint masks) and on top of them are normal maps applied. The problem arises with normals, they add reflection if their alpha is anything other 100%. Pitch black = no reflection, a matte black.

 

I think it would be a simple experiment to prove/disprove what i said. Take your face normals, back them up (make a copy in the same folder and rename it), modify the original one and give it 100% transparency, save it. Run Skyrim, toggle ENB off, make your warpaint black. Is it pitch black? If not, I'm wrong, if it is, then I'm right. Simple as that. After you're done restore your backed up texture.

So it would be the normals with the skin textures and not the warpaints? That would explain why i couldn't find a single normal map with any of the warpaint mods i opened up and examined. I have a skin texture similar to SG and no ENB so i'm going to try your normal modification idea. 

[Guest corespore]

So my characters skin came with four separate files attached, .dds, _msn.dds, _s.dds, and a _sk.dds. Now I'm assuming the _msn.dds is the normal or for the model in question. I made a replacement of that map with one that had only 1% opacity (nearly invisible). Though the skin had some very odd effects when changing head position there was no change in the brown facepaint color.

 

 

 

 

[Jormungandr]

So my characters skin came with four separate files attached, .dds, _msn.dds, _s.dds, and a _sk.dds. Now I'm assuming the _msn.dds is the normal or for the model in question. I made a replacement of that map with one that had only 1% opacity (nearly invisible). Though the skin had some very odd effects when changing head position there was no change in the brown facepaint color.

 

 

ScreenShot167.jpgScreenShot168.jpgScreenShot169.jpg

 

 

Good lord... so i paused my attempts for a while because you know, some things tend to drive you nuts. Just like this one here.

 

Actually i had another idea, i know my way around in the CK but i've got no idea about presets, buuuuuuut would it be possible to make a preset that uses a different texture/texture path/tintmask/anything ? Or would that be engine breaking?

[HeavyDude]

So my characters skin came with four separate files attached, .dds, _msn.dds, _s.dds, and a _sk.dds. Now I'm assuming the _msn.dds is the normal or for the model in question. I made a replacement of that map with one that had only 1% opacity (nearly invisible). Though the skin had some very odd effects when changing head position there was no change in the brown facepaint color.

 

 

ScreenShot167.jpgScreenShot168.jpgScreenShot169.jpg

 

 

Normals usually come with an "_n" suffix. So femaleface.dds has normals named femaleface_n.dds. The normals look blue like THIS (its a bad example, but its an example). Also, did you make sure the tint masks (warpaints) were full black, and full white (no grey color what-so-ever)?

 

Then the problem may be the way Skyrim applies tint masks themselves.

[Guest corespore]

 

So my characters skin came with four separate files attached, .dds, _msn.dds, _s.dds, and a _sk.dds. Now I'm assuming the _msn.dds is the normal or for the model in question. I made a replacement of that map with one that had only 1% opacity (nearly invisible). Though the skin had some very odd effects when changing head position there was no change in the brown facepaint color.

 

 

ScreenShot167.jpgScreenShot168.jpgScreenShot169.jpg

 

 

Normals usually come with an "_n" suffix. So femaleface.dds has normals named femaleface_n.dds. The normals look blue like THIS (its a bad example, but its an example). Also, did you make sure the tint masks (warpaints) were full black, and full white (no grey color what-so-ever)?

 

Then the problem may be the way Skyrim applies tint masks themselves.

 

Like i said there were four files per paint and none had just a _n.dds normal map name, to find the normal map for the paint i had to open each one up in Gimp. I have checked several of my face paint mods and none have the standard _n.dds normal map designation, it could be just the ones i have but i opened up several from various mod authors and none had the standard normal map that one expects from something such as a static or weapon. 

EDIT: heres a pic of the _msn.dds file i was talking about and if i'm not mistaken that's a normal map

 

 

 

[HeavyDude]

 

 

*snip*

 

Like i said there were four files per paint and none had just a _n.dds normal map name, to find the normal map for the paint i had to open each one up in Gimp. I have checked several of my face paint mods and none have the standard _n.dds normal map designation, it could be just the ones i have but i opened up several from various mod authors and none had the standard normal map that one expects from something such as a static or weapon. 

EDIT: heres a pic of the _msn.dds file i was talking about and if i'm not mistaken that's a normal map

 

femalehead_msn.jpg

 

 

Yup, that's a normal map alright. So you made it completely transparent? By modifying the alpha channel?

 

And yes, warpaints come without a normal map, the textures that are in the complexion slider come with a normal map, but warpaints come without.

 

It seems then that the way skyrim applies the warpaints is the problem. Have you guys tried to make the skin color of your toon more saturated? I'm talking something like Darth Maul , basically anything other than a regular pink skin tone. Let's get to the bottom of this.

[Guest corespore]

"Yup, that's a normal map alright. So you made it completely transparent? By modifying the alpha channel?"

Yeah, i made three versions for testing. A completely transparent version, a 1% transparent one, and a 100% opaque version. I couldn't tell the difference between the 0% and the 1% and the difference between the 1% and the 100% opaque was so small it might have been nothing at all (in fact it might have been the lighting in the room causing the difference). Since it appears the normals applied to the face itself isn't the culprit I'm going to try the dark skin color next. 

[Vioxsis]

You can't make a normal map "transparent". The alpha on a tangent space normal affects how much light is reflected, and on a world/object space normal (like what the head pictured above is) the alpha is not used.

 

A normal map should not be effecting colour, in any way, shape, or form. 

[HeavyDude]

You can't make a normal map "transparent". The alpha on a tangent space normal affects how much light is reflected, and on a world/object space normal (like what the head pictured above is) the alpha is not used.

 

A normal map should not be effecting colour, in any way, shape, or form. 

 

I always assumed that since armors and weapons use alphas in their normals, that it's universal. That's what happens when you assume things, you look like an ass. And now that I think of it, I never saw a body/face normal have alphas, so it makes sense.

 

Guess the problem lies elsewhere.