Thoughts about the mess that is cum plugins.

[rynak777]

Fejeena a while ago IIRC was taking apart SpermSplashEx to understand the scripting. Back then, i jumped into the discussion and basically naively asked, why we need so many different cum mods anyways, and why do anything not "local" (but instead full-body) anyways. Info i gathered back then:

 

1. TamagoDischarge apparently uses Tamago scripts/triggers to understand "where" injection happens. SpermSplashEX doesn't and thus doesn't depend on Tamago.

 

2. While TD uses cloth/armor stuff to apply effects to specific areas, SSE "someway" does not do that - or at least, does it different. This is why SSE works even if a char has clothing or armor equipped, while with TD, you can only see effects if the relevant bodypart is "naked" (so that the fake-armor/cloth part can be equipped). This also is why SSE is capable of the very subtle animation of cum slowly "running down" across bodyparts - because the effect is non-local (bodypart specific).

 

Now, on first sight, this might make the TD approach seem superior. After all, it can do bodypart specific effects, which looks just so much more believable, than a generic out of nowhere full body effect. The problem with the TD approach, is that is a buggy error-prone piece of *censored*. It is a "hack" in the most degorative sense of the word.

 

For starters, it only works for bodyparts that currently have no cloth/armor equipped. Sounds trivial, but because the "fake it with a bodypart/ring" approach is used by so many plugins, to store hidden stuff, chances are that even when a char "lookes" naked, he technically probably isn't actually naked (until today, even with by now FIVE iterations of removing all mods and adding them one by one, and trying all kinds of version cocktails, and playing with various "force-undress" hacks, i haven't been able to get the facial to show on ANY CHAR EVER). And this isn't even accounting for the fact, that a helmet uses the head-slot, yet leaves the face visibly uncovered. And then, there's the tamago dependency, which might break on any version update randomly.

 

So yeah, in theory the TD-approach might sound good, but because of oblivion under the hood tech, it is just horrible.

 

That basically leaves the SSE approach.

 

But we all really would LIKE to have area-specific cum effects, right?

 

So, back then i asked "How about emulating area-specific effects, by having one texture for every combination of body-part effects?". Problems with that were quickly pointed out:

 

1. There might be too many combinations, depending on how accurate we want to be.

 

2. To have detailed and very accurate effects at certain areas (i.e. vag), the textures would need to be hardcoded for a certain body-type, because else things would be off.

 

3. It could no longer be animated - that "running down" effect would no longer be possible, because the whole texture across the body would drift "off".

 

Now, as for the number of combinations (Problem #1), if we're satisfied with just three areas: head, tits/shoulders/back, genitals/waist/legs - if we don't expect more accuracy than that, that adds up to 9 textures. Intensity/accumulation can just be done via fading/alpha.

 

The harder nut is problem #2. How inaccurate is the SSE approach actually? Is it that without hand-tailoring to a bodytype, we can't place stuff super-accurately, i.e. over a vagina..... is it like that, or is it so inaccurate that we have no idea at all, if a stroke ends up on the legs or on the hair? If it's the later, then i completely agree - unfeasible. If however it's the former (we know where stuff approximatelly ends up, just not accurately), then what if we don't even expect TD-style details, but instead just random strokes like it's the case now.... except of them only appearing in areas where it contextually makes sense?

 

This directly leads to problem #3. Not that i consider the subtle animation that important, but if we don't try to "paint details to specific spots" but instead just want to do what we do now already (random strokes), just restricted to overall areas of the body.... then wouldn't the "running down" animation work just fine, if kept within certain offset-restraints?

[Guest ThatOne]

If you are using a piece of armor, it will have to be tailored to specific body-types, because it will have to be weight-painted. The only other way is to use a body resizing mod that changes bodytype via scale bones - something which has been done in the past, but not caught on, and the skeleton isn't compatible with LAPF.

 

I believe the SSE approach simply applies a shader effect to the character and calls it a day, without checking for "where", and while you could assign a variable to each animation number and go by that (easy to do, but tedious), I'm not entirely sure how you are going to have the effect on the character in the first place.

[Symon]

Blockhead deals with the old 'need' to equip clothing to swap body parts. It also changes skin textures that then show underneath armour parts. (Great for tattoos and brands).

 

You are quite correct in that both SSE and TD are behind 'state of the art now' when thinking of mesh and texture swaps.

[Guest ThatOne]

I suppose having a texture with the effect on it already could probably work... So, yeah, I guess it could work, if someone was willing to put the time to do it.

[rynak777]

I suppose having a texture with the effect on it already could probably work... So, yeah, I guess it could work, if someone was willing to put the time to do it.

 

I suspect that texture in blockhead would not replace the skin/clothing tex, but be applied "on top of it", using alpha? Because if not, wouldn't we again run in the problem of having to hardcode stuff for certain bodies and clothing?

 

Oh, i just did read this:

 

It also changes skin textures that then show underneath armour parts. (Great for tattoos and brands).

 

 

Well, that would look different to how it looks now, but to me personally, that's good enough. I guess the only catch then would be having to account for different skin colors? Or can we "multitexture" and just use alpha on the cum tex?

[Symon]

Look at the blockhead OBSE plugin.

 

You can 'permanent' swap by race, sex or Baseref (e.g individual npc) or swap via scripting, which is probably what is wanted in this case.

 

It's an impressive tool that obsoleted all previous techniques for texture/mesh swapping. (Only a few months old but seems rock stable.)

[movomo]

Not that I want to discourage, but head asset swapping via script is not possible at the moment.

And that's the reason I'm on hold updating Setbody(blockhead) plugin.

 

By the way, texture swapping could lead to an another problem. How about oddly skinned races? Can you make cummed texture variants for every last bit of the existing body/face texture, and every head mesh variant?

Be my guest if you want improve/replace TD or others, but I think the best solution is to use the NifSE, leaving one item slot for the cum effects as a convention.