How to correct cloth layering? Please help.

[300apmwithtea]

Hello,
I want to use stockings under the armor without clipping. Just like an amulet goes hide, when u wear an armor.
Ive read couple topics on LL (googling basically doesnt give much about correct layering), done everything according "instruction", but stockings are still on, when I wear up my body and boots armor.
Let me type my 'done' list:
• I change socks nifs files BSDismemberSkinInstance to 53 slot (both files tho _0/_1)
• I set DNAM Female Priority to 1 in Armor Addon (using sseedit)
• I change BODT Slot to 53 both in Armor Addon and Armor (using sseedit aswell)
From my barely basic knowlegdes, stockings should go hide, when I wear my boots, but they leave with giving me clipping.
Check please screenshots with my 'done' list.

Since Im kinda new in a simple modding, I guess I just did something wrong. Any big modders can help me fix an issue?
Appreciate any advice u can give

Edited June 20, 2022 by 300apmwithtea

[Gameplayer]

Are you asking for the Stockings to disappear when another armor is worn?

 

OR

 

Are you literally trying to make them fit with the boots?

 

Anyway, nifskope is not ideal for handling that.

 

You really can not remove part of the stocking with nifskope, all you can really do with a Nifskope mash-up is just hope stuff fits when you add the object to another object.

 

To get better results you would have to use Bodyslide to add the objects into the boots and then make a Project, ZAP (trim) the stocking so that when your character puts on that specific boot they wear also the stocking as in a boot that has built in stockings.

 

Anyway, you will have to get aquainted with Outfit Studio more than likely to get the desired results...without knowing what exactly your trying to do its hard to say how to go about it.

[300apmwithtea]

17 minutes ago, Gameplayer said:

Are you asking for the Stockings to disappear when another armor is worn?

 

OR

 

Are you literally trying to make them fit with the boots?

 

Anyway, nifskope is not ideal for handling that.

 

You really can not remove part of the stocking with nifskope, all you can really do with a Nifskope mash-up is just hope stuff fits when you add the object to another object.

 

To get better results you would have to use Bodyslide to add the objects into the boots and then make a Project, ZAP (trim) the stocking so that when your character puts on that specific boot they wear also the stocking as in a boot that has built in stockings.

 

Anyway, you will have to get aquainted with Outfit Studio more than likely to get the desired results...without knowing what exactly your trying to do its hard to say how to go about it.

Hey, Thank you for your response.
I basically want them become invisiable as soon as wear boots and come visible back when I wear off boots (I dont want to fit them inside my boots and armor, since its gonna be a mesh any ways and likely visible clipping while intense movements).
I was using this topic for doing what I want: 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by 300apmwithtea

[Gameplayer]

Ah I dont think its going to work quite like that,

 

See you can only actually have one item worn on a slot, putting on an item that uses that slot also force removes the previous item.

 

There are of course other systems that further confuse the matter such as Devious Devices Integration, see with this mod it has a device hider system meant for its own items but since it operates on hiding slots it can give people weird idea's at first on apparel usage because with that it can hide items that share same slots as devices.

 

I dont want to confuse the matter, just understand default game no mods,

IF two items share same slot only one can occupy the slot the other is unequipped.

 

There are other things you might try however it will get confusing, even on me I dont use it much.

 

You can flag parts of an item to disappear IF an item has a specific slot, although I have not used it myself only to remove it and doing anything with that one would want to alter the data for that in Outfit Studio again.

Has to do with "Partitions" and again I dont use them so my understanding is very basic the idea being you can force a part of an outfit piece to not show when another slot is worn,

See it often with Bodyslot and wearing boots that are not long enough to cover the thigh area.

 

But to have a specific item say stockings be worn when boots are removed but not worn when boots are on, your best bet is also another mod,

I can not recall specific names, there are a few of them 

Apperal hider I think is one such mod...

Sorry I dont know the names of the costume mods that keep track of stuff worn under gear, there are a few I tried some out decided I did not like the system because it got weird when using mods that try to force remove outfit for uh naked moments.

 

My approach with making stockings work with boots is usually I just find a decent stocking overlay and use that.

Sometimes I literally just alter the mesh outfit in Outfit Studio and or add the mesh to the boots in OS.

 

[300apmwithtea]

15 minutes ago, Gameplayer said:

Ah I dont think its going to work quite like that,

 

See you can only actually have one item worn on a slot, putting on an item that uses that slot also force removes the previous item.

 

There are of course other systems that further confuse the matter such as Devious Devices Integration, see with this mod it has a device hider system meant for its own items but since it operates on hiding slots it can give people weird idea's at first on apparel usage because with that it can hide items that share same slots as devices.

 

I dont want to confuse the matter, just understand default game no mods,

IF two items share same slot only one can occupy the slot the other is unequipped.

 

There are other things you might try however it will get confusing, even on me I dont use it much.

 

You can flag parts of an item to disappear IF an item has a specific slot, although I have not used it myself only to remove it and doing anything with that one would want to alter the data for that in Outfit Studio again.

Has to do with "Partitions" and again I dont use them so my understanding is very basic the idea being you can force a part of an outfit piece to not show when another slot is worn,

See it often with Bodyslot and wearing boots that are not long enough to cover the thigh area.

 

But to have a specific item say stockings be worn when boots are removed but not worn when boots are on, your best bet is also another mod,

I can not recall specific names, there are a few of them 

Apperal hider I think is one such mod...

Sorry I dont know the names of the costume mods that keep track of stuff worn under gear, there are a few I tried some out decided I did not like the system because it got weird when using mods that try to force remove outfit for uh naked moments.

 

My approach with making stockings work with boots is usually I just find a decent stocking overlay and use that.

Sometimes I literally just alter the mesh outfit in Outfit Studio and or add the mesh to the boots in OS.

 

Well, according to people resonses this topic, there should be such option, like I can hide underwear, bra, stockings, etc under the armor as long as I use correct body slots and correctly configure it.

Im currently using Apparel Layer for this need, but I dont enjoy the way it works. Overlays stockings also isnt what I want.
You told me I can use 'zap slider' in Outfit Studio, didnt you? So, can I fit stockings under the suit and boots preciously, so it doesnt clip?
Im Outfit Studio beginner (made some base shape changes), so I gotta google a lot, if my needs are possible to do via Outfit Stuido.

[Gameplayer]

Thats a really potentially complicated answer,

 

Outfit Studio is an entire outfit suite that allows you to conform an outfit to another body type, and it can be used to make new mash up armors, remove parts you dont want, and a lot more than is obvious but it all takes time, practice, and thinking out of the box if you go beyond the tutorials.

 

You could import the boots and the stockings.

Use ZAP function to remove part of the stockings,

and then export the new boots with the stockings in them.

 

Then you would see stockings and boots properly in game together when wearing that new item you made.

IF you combined that with another mod that kept track that you were wearing the original stocking well when those boots come off that other mod then puts original stockings on.

[300apmwithtea]

1 hour ago, Gameplayer said:

Thats a really potentially complicated answer,

 

Outfit Studio is an entire outfit suite that allows you to conform an outfit to another body type, and it can be used to make new mash up armors, remove parts you dont want, and a lot more than is obvious but it all takes time, practice, and thinking out of the box if you go beyond the tutorials.

 

You could import the boots and the stockings.

Use ZAP function to remove part of the stockings,

and then export the new boots with the stockings in them.

 

Then you would see stockings and boots properly in game together when wearing that new item you made.

IF you combined that with another mod that kept track that you were wearing the original stocking well when those boots come off that other mod then puts original stockings on.

Oh, sounds like a merge boots with stockings into new mesh. But this is completely out of I want

[Seijin8]

15 hours ago, 300apmwithtea said:

Oh, sounds like a merge boots with stockings into new mesh. But this is completely out of I want

 

Step by step (keep in mind I haven't had my morning coffee yet):

• tl;dr:  On the ARMA/armor addon for the stockings, add slot 37.  Should have both 37 and 53.

 

More detailed and some notes:

• There is no point in using BSDismemberSkinInstance of slot 53.  Better off using "convert -> NiSkinInstance".  The game doesn't know how to dismember slot 53, so there is no value in using it.
• If you want the stockings to disappear when the boots are equipped, then the stockings ARMA record needs to share the same slot as the boots.  Usually that would be slot 37.  Use that only in the ARMA/Armor Addon record, leave the ARMO/Armor record as just 53.  End result: the ARMA record should have both slot 37 and 53 selected.
• You said the priority on the stockings was set to 1, so that should work.  As long as the priority of the boots is higher, then the stockings should disappear when something else is worn.
• The clipping with the pants is a different story.  That can potentially be fixed using the partition system in Outfit Studio.

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Seijin8

[300apmwithtea]

1 hour ago, Seijin8 said:

 

Step by step (keep in mind I haven't had my morning coffee yet):

• tl;dr:  On the ARMA/armor addon for the stockings, add slot 37.  Should have both 37 and 53.

 

More detailed and some notes:

• There is no point in using BSDismemberSkinInstance of slot 53.  Better off using "convert -> NiSkinInstance".  The game doesn't know how to dismember slot 53, so there is no value in using it.
• If you want the stockings to disappear when the boots are equipped, then the stockings ARMA record needs to share the same slot as the boots.  Usually that would be slot 37.  Use that only in the ARMA/Armor Addon record, leave the ARMO/Armor record as just 53.  End result: the ARMA record should have both slot 37 and 53 selected.
• You said the priority on the stockings was set to 1, so that should work.  As long as the priority of the boots is higher, then the stockings should disappear when something else is worn.
• The clipping with the pants is a different story.  That can potentially be fixed using the partition system in Outfit Studio.

 

Hey, thank you for response. I feel like Im progressing, but this priority system is confusing me as hell.
Right after I add 37 slot (only ARMA) for stockings, it... start working, but opposite side LMAO. Now boots disappear when stockings are on. I tryed to 'play' with priority and Im completely confused, because now I absolutely dont understand what way it works. I tryed many priorities from 1 to 12 for stockings and there are 2 ways it works: boots and stockings clipping each other (nothing hide) and only at some priorities (1, 4, 5 as far as I rememeber) boots disappear when stockings weared up.
I found this boots inside Skyrim.esm (this is basicaly Dark Brotherhood Boots); they have priority 10. Btw, I paid an attention, that boots are using 2 slots: 37 - Feet and 38 - Calves. Probably I should to add another one (38 Calves) slot for stockings?


Btw, I think I didnt get you good enough for this part "Better off using "convert -> NiSkinInstance" (can u please clarify what's I should to do).
Thank you again bro, waiting for ur response

[Seijin8]

1 hour ago, 300apmwithtea said:

Now boots disappear when stockings are on.

 

What is the priority on the boots?  Typically for vanilla gear it would be 10.  The behavior you are describing makes it sound like the boots have a priority of 0.

 

Also, are you setting the priority for male and female both?

 

You can try using 38 instead, that might work but might have the same result.

 

Are you using quicksave/quickload?  There is a game bug that can make priorities switch function when using those.

 

1 hour ago, 300apmwithtea said:

"Better off using "convert -> NiSkinInstance" (can u please clarify what's I should to do).

 

This is optional, just makes things work a little easier at times.  In nifskope, right-click the BSDismemberSkinInstance, select "Convert", then select "NiSKinInstance".  This makes nif just do whatever the ARMA record tells it to and removes potential conflicts.

[300apmwithtea]

25 minutes ago, Seijin8 said:

 

What is the priority on the boots?  Typically for vanilla gear it would be 10.  The behavior you are describing makes it sound like the boots have a priority of 0.

 

Also, are you setting the priority for male and female both?

 

You can try using 38 instead, that might work but might have the same result.

 

Are you using quicksave/quickload?  There is a game bug that can make priorities switch function when using those.

 

 

This is optional, just makes things work a little easier at times.  In nifskope, right-click the BSDismemberSkinInstance, select "Convert", then select "NiSKinInstance".  This makes nif just do whatever the ARMA record tells it to and removes potential conflicts.

I feel dumb to say, but seems like an issue was QuickSave/QuickLoad, because it has started work right after F5/F9.
Any ways, everything is finally work. Yay!
Much appreciate you bro for your help. Now Im gonna to find some immersive underwear, so my character's not gonna be cold in Skyrim with Frostfall mod

[Seijin8]

7 minutes ago, 300apmwithtea said:

I feel dumb to say, but seems like an issue was QuickSave/QuickLoad

 

Nothing dumb about that, it isn't a well-known bug.

 

Glad it is working now.

[PeerHorse]

Just wanted to say thank you @Seijin8 for the help. Had similar problems and ended up in this thread. Specially the F5/F9 thing