I am now incredibly confused about what effect "AllowForRandom" even has.

[rb813]

I've been collecting custom sims for a while, specifically ones that come with all the CC outfits and clothes included. That's nice and convenient for that one carefully-crafted sim, but sometimes the clothes that are included in those bundles end up having unexpected effects with the random townies, because the people who made the CC didn't pay much attention to the tags. For instance, I got a nice lacy bra-and-panties set (a Full Body item) that was tagged as Everyday, so now my game is full of random townies running around in their underwear. Of course I don't mind seeing people in their underwear, so I wouldn't have a problem with this if it were intended as an exhibitionism thing. But the way the game understands it, this is a perfectly normal out-and-around outfit, like jeans and a T-shirt. Hell, even that wouldn't be a problem if a wide variety of underwear showed up on the townies. I could just pretend that this was a sexually liberated town. But when it's just this one outfit showing up over and over again (the game seems to favor the CC items when generating random outfits), it seems like a bug, not a feature.

 

Anyway, the point is that after encountering a number of quirky items like that (the underwear one is just an example), I recently started the Herculean task of going through all the CC I have, almost two thousand, to do a little QC. The plan was to look at each one in S4S, to decide whether I wanted it to be allowed for random or not, and making sure the tags of what outfit categories it belonged to make sense. I use the random button (the dice icon) a lot when dressing my own sims, so I wanted to make sure all the good stuff that I actually liked was marked for random as well. However, I've just now stumbled upon an item where S4S showed that AllowForRandom and AllowForLiveRandom were both unchecked, and yet I was sure that I had seen that item come up randomly before. So I tested it by taking out all the other CC I had (so that the one item would have a much greater chance of being randomly selected), and hit the random button in the appropriate section of CAS. Sure enough, that item where random was unchecked was randomly chosen within the first few presses of the random button.

 

So... having the AllowForRandom and AllowForLiveRandom not checked doesn't mean an item isn't randomly selected. So then what the hell do they mean? If I want to have some items for particular special outfits (like roleplay or cosplay stuff) that I don't want being given to any old random townie, is there any way to inform the game of my preference, or do I just need to give up and take them out of the mods folder if I don't want random people to be wearing them? I'm so confused.

[2cool4u_1]

AllowForRandom = the item can show up in CAS when you hit the random button.

AllowForLiveRandom = the item can be used on randomly generated sims in game.

 

If it's not working like that, it's most likely a bug. This may not be what you want, but I'm going to suggest you take a look at my Fashion Police mod. Random townies will only dress in pre-configured outfits. No CC items will be used (unless it's part of the outfit), regardless of whether or not it's AllowedForLiveRandom. You can also add your own outfit creations (with or without CC). It will save you from going through and editing all that CC.

 

 

[rb813]

26 minutes ago, 2cool4u_1 said:

This may not be what you want, but I'm going to suggest you take a look at my Fashion Police mod.

Is there a limited number of custom outfits I can make, or could I theoretically just go hog-wild and include basically everything I have that looks like normal clothing, for maximum variety? (I would get annoyed if I kept seeing the same outfits repeatedly.)

 

Also, since I'm already neck-deep in a game I don't want to abandon, with over a hundred randos, does this change the outfits of current townies, or just define what new townies can wear when they're being generated? (I guess what I was trying to do in S4S wouldn't change the ones that are already there either, so that's not big a deal.)

 

28 minutes ago, 2cool4u_1 said:

If it's not working like that, it's most likely a bug.

I just went back and tested it again (with a different CC item that also had the boxes unchecked in S4S), and it looks to be confirmed that such items are still showing up in CAS when I hit the random button. Your mod has great potential as a temporary workaround, but I'd still like to fix the underlying problem. Are there any other troubleshooting steps you can think of that would allow be investigate further what might be causing this bug? My long-term preference would definitely be to get it to the point where I can change the tags and stuff myself to make everything be just the way I want it.

[2cool4u_1]

1 hour ago, rb813 said:

Is there a limited number of custom outfits I can make, or could I theoretically just go hog-wild and include basically everything I have that looks like normal clothing, for maximum variety? (I would get annoyed if I kept seeing the same outfits repeatedly.)

Go hog-wild. Using official Maxis content I have over 5,500 female outfits, and over 2,200 male outfits. The more outfits, the better (and less chance of seeing them repeated from one game to another).

 

1 hour ago, rb813 said:

Also, since I'm already neck-deep in a game I don't want to abandon, with over a hundred randos, does this change the outfits of current townies, or just define what new townies can wear when they're being generated? (I guess what I was trying to do in S4S wouldn't change the ones that are already there either, so that's not big a deal.)

There are a few things you can do;

1. You can click on a mailbox and clean all sims. Individual sims can be flagged to ignore this process (BE WARNED: it even affects your active household if not flagged).
2. You can clean all outfits on individual sims (not recommended if you wan to do all your random NPCs).
3. You can replace a single outfit with a clean one, on individual sims.
4. You can adjust settings so that all sims will get a clean outfit when they age up (unless they already have a clean outfit, or are flagged to bypass outfit changes).
5. You can adjust settings so that any newly generated sims are given clean outfits.

For more info look under GUIDE FOR MC DRESSER: LIMITATIONS, SETTINGS, & HOW TO USE IT

 

2 hours ago, rb813 said:

Are there any other troubleshooting steps you can think of that would allow be investigate further what might be causing this bug? My long-term preference would definitely be to get it to the point where I can change the tags and stuff myself to make everything be just the way I want it.

Sorry. I can't think of anything. I just know the way it's supposed to work, and the way it used to work. I don't even know if I have that bug.

[rb813]

35 minutes ago, 2cool4u_1 said:

I just know the way it's supposed to work, and the way it used to work.

Are we sure it ever really did work that way? Through "unofficial" methods, I installed version 1.58, and it still had the same problem. I'm gonna try 1.47 next (as soon as it downloads, which could be a while), which is the earliest version I could find.

 

I definitely do think that some CC are restricted from being randomly chosen, because I've noticed a small number of items (such as overdone alpha hair in crazy colors) seem to show up on random townies repeatedly, so I figure the most likely explanation is that it's selecting from a more limited pool than all the many CC items I have, or else those items wouldn't come up so often. And yet, I have pressed the random button and seen the items with the box unchecked be randomly selected. It's really frustrating, I just want to understand how it actually works.

[2cool4u_1]

3 hours ago, rb813 said:

Are we sure it ever really did work that way?

Yes. It used to work perfectly fine for me. I don't know about now, because with the Fashion Police I don't edit CC anymore.

 

3 hours ago, rb813 said:

I definitely do think that some CC are restricted from being randomly chosen, because I've noticed a small number of items (such as overdone alpha hair in crazy colors) seem to show up on random townies repeatedly, so I figure the most likely explanation is that it's selecting from a more limited pool than all the many CC items I have, or else those items wouldn't come up so often.

It's a complaint many people share. No, for some reason the game tends to pick the same CC over and over, while other CC is hardly ever chosen, and it feels as though some is never chosen at all. I think the randomization formula the game uses needs work.

[rb813]

Okay, at this point, I've tried it with four different versions from 1.50 to 1.64, and every single one of them will randomly selected the CC item that has AllowForRandom unchecked. I've also removed everything else from my Mods folder while I was conducting the tests, so it can't be that some other mod is messing things up. The only conclusion I can come to is that unchecking the AllowForRandom box simply does not work.

 

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

[2cool4u_1]

I have one idea. Could you send me some CC for me to try. There's also a (small) possibility there's an issue with S4S.

[rb813]

1 hour ago, 2cool4u_1 said:

There's also a (small) possibility there's an issue with S4S.

Yeah, that was one thought I had as well, but I have no earthly idea how to test that.

 

I've attached a couple CC files, the same ones that I've been doing the testing with (they're both tagged for the Sleep category, so you can do a random selection there with a lot fewer options of non-CC items than in Everyday). I suppose it's possible that there's something off with just those two particular items, but it seems unlikely.

[erplederp] Panties with a Bow.package [Elliesimple] - Graphic V neck (F_top).package

[2cool4u_1]

Tested it. There is a bug with the game. When you click on the random button on top of the clothes, the CC items do come up sometimes. It didn't used to do that. I had spent a considerable amount of time in the past un-checking those tags, checking appropriate categories (everyday, etc), and re-ordering all the CC. I never had an issue before. The random button at the bottom still works fine. I pressed it counting to 150. The same Maxis clothing items came up over and over, but never the CC items.

 

1 hour ago, rb813 said:

Yeah, that was one thought I had as well, but I have no earthly idea how to test that.

Cmar's "CAS Tools" is an alternative program. If I did not encounter the bug, I was going to check the tags using that.

 

 

I guess the only option you have is to hope EA fixes it at some point. Don't hold your breath though.

[rb813]

36 minutes ago, 2cool4u_1 said:

It didn't used to do that. I had spent a considerable amount of time in the past un-checking those tags, checking appropriate categories (everyday, etc), and re-ordering all the CC. I never had an issue before.

Do you have any possible guess what version it might've been at when you were doing that? Do you remember what the latest expansion pack was? Maybe someone would be able to dig into the game code and spot the difference if we could find an older version where it did work properly.

 

By the way, thanks for confirming that it isn't just me. I thought I was going crazy for a second there.

 

Hey, here's a thought for a potential workaround. If I removed the outfit category tags from any items that I didn't want showing up unexpectedly, that should prevent them from being randomly selected, right? It stands to reason that the random button only selects items from the appropriate category, so if an item wasn't in any category, then it shouldn't ever be selected.

[2cool4u_1]

22 minutes ago, rb813 said:

Do you have any possible guess what version it might've been at when you were doing that?

It was 2 ~ 3 years ago.

 

25 minutes ago, rb813 said:

Hey, here's a thought for a potential workaround.

That will work (for CAS). I tested it just to make sure. It will NOT show up in CAS for that category, and will not get selected. I do NOT know if that means it will never get selected for random NPCs in game.

[rb813]

Hey, does CAS Tools have the ability to edit the tags on every "CAS Part" all at once, instead of having to do them one at a time (which is ridiculous, since the tags for each part are pretty much always the same) in S4S? That would save so much time.

[2cool4u_1]

Unfortunately not. For some things it's a lot easier and faster to edit tags. You'll also notice you can adjust CAS sort order, and Layer numbers right there. Removing tags is fast, adding them (such as outfit category) takes longer. It's easier to clone items. Overall, there's positives and negatives. I MOSTLY use S4S. Here's a screenshot (Note: there are more tabs to do more stuff than what's shown).

[rb813]

Hey, I have a question, since you've spent a lot of time working with the tags and stuff on CC items. Do you know if there would be any malfunction caused by having different tags for different CAS parts? Like if I had the brunette, black, and blonde swatches of a hairstyle be set to Everyday and Formal, but had all the crazy neon colors be only set to Party, would there be any reason why that shouldn't work? It seems like it should, because otherwise why would every CAS part have its own tags, but it also seems like everybody just uses the same tags for every Part.

[2cool4u_1]

Yeah, that'll work. Different swatches can have different tags, as you suggested. Similarly, you can make the natural colors available for random, and disable the rainbow ones.

On 7/14/2020 at 5:56 PM, rb813 said:

Hey, does CAS Tools have the ability to edit the tags on every "CAS Part" all at once, instead of having to do them one at a time (which is ridiculous, since the tags for each part are pretty much always the same) in S4S? That would save so much time.

I'm sorry. I may have misunderstood you. When you say "CAS Part", do you mean swatches (different colors on the same item), or actual different items (like separate shirts)? I was assuming you meant different items, but if you meant swatches, you can do all at once for each separate item (using either S4S or CAS Tools).

[rb813]

26 minutes ago, 2cool4u_1 said:

if you meant swatches, you can do all at once for each separate item (using either S4S or CAS Tools).

Yeah, I was referring to them as "CAS Part" because when you go into S4S under the Warehouse tab, you click on the lines labeled CAS Part (as opposed to RLE Image, Geometry, etc.) to modify individual swatches. You can hold down CTRL to highlight multiple CAS Part lines, and then edit Tags, but when you do that, it actually just modifies the first one you selected.

 

Honestly, the way it should work is just to have "modify all" be the default, since 99.9% of CC items have the same tags for all the different swatches.

[2cool4u_1]

That explains it. I only use the warehouse tab and see the CAS Parts for merged files with multiple items.

 

In the Studio tab, click on the Categories tab, then you can apply it to all swatches. For some reason, there's no AllowForLiveRandom tag here, but if you're going to remove all the outfit categories, that shouldn't matter. (CAS Tools automatically assumes you want to apply to all swatches. I'm not sure if it let's you make them different).

[rb813]

Holy shit! I never even noticed that tab! Well, this will certainly save me a lot of time.

[2cool4u_1]

Well, I'm glad I could help, at least a little. ?

[rb813]

Hey, I have another question. If I wanted to sort all my CC items into general categories (like Clothes, Hair, Accessories, etc.), is there any way to access the information about which category the packages would be, without loading each one individually in S4S (or CAS Tools)?

 

Like, if I were sorting through music files, I could access the album or artist information in Windows Explorer, and sort them by those parameters instead of just the file name. Obviously, Explorer doesn't have that information for Sims .package files, but is there any other program that can access that info without having to open each package one at a time?

[2cool4u_1]

Not as far as I know. Sorry. File names are the best clue, BUT I have run into instances where something was called ___top, and it was a fullbody outfit or even a hat once.