Mods that require same load order

[DrN]

Apoogies if has already been answered before.I am starting  a new oblivion game(made a new clone of my vanilla Oblivion with MOM),and I would like to have mods that I have played before,like Gates to Aesgaard and Dibellas watch.The problem is quite obvious,both require to be loaded immediatelly after oblivion.esm.I would like some help/suggestions on how to deal with this problem.Such mods supposedly do not work if the load order is not correct.I have read in planetelderscrolls that I could espify them,but before I try to swim in the deep ocean I'd better get some advice from folks who are more experienced than me.

[Guest Lady Luck]

this one just lost me , what were you trying to do?

[Ark of Truth]

They are not required to be loaded immediatelly after oblivion.esm. In fact ALL mods must load after the oblivion.esm.

 

Load order is critical to this game to make sure that things such as scripts and other stuff do not get overwritten by other mods.

 

You are going to have to explain at bit more exactly what you are on about.

[Sarnaath]

I just recenetly played Gates to Aesgard I and II.  Haven't played Dibella's watch.  The first GTAesgaard doesn't have an esm file, so that's not an issue.  The 2nd one does and it should be loaded right after Oblivion.esm.  My understanding is that this is due to the .esm altering vanilla world spaces without using TES4Gecko's Move Worldspace function causing landscape bugs like vanishing landscapes.  See discussion here and here.  There is more discussion on the Elder Scrolls Construction Set Wiki if you search.  Anyways, at the time GTAesgaard II was the only .esm I had that was like this, so I (or BOSS, rather) put it right after Oblivion.esm and it wasn't a problem.  I've finished it and since uninstalled it.  It's not like I'm going to return there and I sold everything I picked up, so there was no reason to keep it around

 

To espify you use Wrye Bash.  I didn't know about that option, I would have tried that if I had known about it.  You could try running Gecko's Move Worldspaces on one or both of the esms.  Supposedly that would allow the GTAesgaard_2.esm to be loaded in something other than the 01 mod order index without having landscape issue.  But I don't know if that would break things or not - I think this is someting the mod creator should have done and tested before release. 

 

Or you could play one mod, uninstall it, then play the other.

[DrN]

Ok,sorry about the bad explanation.I meant to say that there are mods-like the 2 I mentioned-that are supposed to be loaded on second spot right after oblivion.esm,not below that

[Guest Lady Luck]

use boss to  detect conflict and wyre bash for oblivion to fix that issue lol

[gregathit]

Ok,sorry about the bad explanation.I meant to say that there are mods-like the 2 I mentioned-that are supposed to be loaded on second spot right after oblivion.esm,not below that

 

What we are trying to tell you is there is no such requirement.  The requirement is simply that the mod must be below the oblivion.esm and not above it.  It doesn't make any difference if it is 2nd or 3rd or 4th below the oblivion.esm.

 

The only time it "can" make a difference is if something conflicts with that plugin and changes something.  Oblivion operates on a system in that the mod that is lowest in the load order "wins" the conflict.

[DrN]

Thanks for explaining this guys,I thought it was way complicated or impossible

[Sarnaath]

 

Ok,sorry about the bad explanation.I meant to say that there are mods-like the 2 I mentioned-that are supposed to be loaded on second spot right after oblivion.esm,not below that

 

What we are trying to tell you is there is no such requirement.  The requirement is simply that the mod must be below the oblivion.esm and not above it.  It doesn't make any difference if it is 2nd or 3rd or 4th below the oblivion.esm.

 

The only time it "can" make a difference is if something conflicts with that plugin and changes something.  Oblivion operates on a system in that the mod that is lowest in the load order "wins" the conflict.

 

That is not what I found in my game.  With GTAesgaard 2, BOSS tells you:  "Warning: This needs to load directly after Oblivion.esm to avoid landscape issues caused by a failure by the mod author to use TES4Gecko's "Move Worldspaces" function."  GTAesgaard_2.esm needs to be loaded in mod index 01.  Apparently this happens when an .esm file has new worldspaces and alters cells in another esm file (here, Oblivion.esm).  This causes landscape to be completely missing in the new worldspaces. (Unless the mod author has used Gecko to change the index of the new worldspaces, the mod author of GTAesgaard did not do this).

 

I tried it, the mod was totally fucked up.  I loaded GTAesgaard_2.esm at the bottom of all my esm files (position 09), rebuilt my bashed patch, and started GTAesgaard 2 again.  Cells in Cyrodill were fine, but upon taking the portal to Carhenia I got massive, game-breaking landscape issues.  Not tears, landscape was just missing and my PC fell through to the bottom.

 

Here are some pictures:

 

 

With GTAesgaard_2.esm loaded in position 01, facing north from the Carhenia portal:

 

With GTAesgaard_2.esm loaded in position 09, facing north from the Carhenia portal:

 

Both times I rebuilt the bashed patch.  The GTAesgaard_2.esp file is at position 28 in my load order.

 

 

 

Maybe this only affects this one cell, which is linked back to a cell in Oblivion.esm, but the ending of GTAesgaard 2 also has a portal back and although I could not check if missing landscape issues are there also, if they are -  the ending will be unplayable.

 

I tried espifying GTAesgaard_2.esm, but Wrye Bash wouldn't do it.  I converted to esp with TES4Gecko, but couldn't edit the master dependencies of the original GTAesgaard_2.esp file.  I also tried using the Move Worldspaces function of TES4Gecko on both the esm and esp, but that didn't solve the landscape issue.

 

What did work was a bit complicated.  I merged the GEAesgaard_2.esp file into the GTAesgaard_2.esm file with Gecko's Merge to Master function.  Then converted that merged esm to an esp.  Adding that to my load order (no GTAesgaard_2.esm) and rebuilding the bashed patched fixed the missing landscape around the portal in Carhenia.  I have no idea if the rest of the mod is ok, or broken, or what.  Maybe someday I'll play through the whole thing again and find out, but not today.

 

In short, load position is critical for this mod's esm and in my game if GTAesgaard_2.esm isn't loaded right after Oblivion.esm, I get landscape and objects that are simply missing from Carhenia.   Moving away from the portal, my PC falls to the water level at the bottom of the cell.  I don't know if any other of the many new cells/worldspaces in GTAesgaard 2 are also affected, I had trouble getting to the next location given so much landscape was missing to continue the quest to find out.  In one of pages I linked to above it says: "Esm/Esm Land Bug - When one esm modifies in any way a worldspace cell of another esm, the land bug occurs in gameplay. The land bug is where the local land textures (and often static buildings, etc.) disappear in gameplay. This happens not just in a few isolated spots, but typically everywhere."  And "This usually means that the only way to get the plugin to work in-game is to make it the very first thing that loads after Oblivion.esm."  That is exactly what I see when GTAesgaard_2.esm is not loaded in the 01 position.  From what I've read there are fixes for this sort of thing, but the GTAesgaard author didn't use them.

 

If Dibella's Watch also requires it's esm to be in the 01 position, perhaps the best you can do is play one, uninstall, then play the other.  So, DrN, if you find yourself in Carhenia, or new worldspaces in Dibella's Watch, with missing landscape, putting the esm in position 01 seems to fix it.

 

Actually, if you play right through GTAesgaard 2 and then don't go back (and why would you?), maybe you could put the esm temporarily in 01, then swap it with Dibella's Watch esm while you play that.  I don't know if that would work, but it seems like it might.

[gregathit]

I played aesgaard 1 & 2 myself, but never had it in that slot.  However, that was a long time ago and if there were issues, then I would have fixed them rather than be forced into that sort of nonsense.  If the mod maker actually requires this then they F'd up majorly.  There is absolutely no damn good reason to require a plugin to be in a particular slot like that.  Dibella's watch was a good idea, but that mod was so full of dirty edits and other stuff that I immediately uninstalled it.  Now that again was quite a while ago when it first came out so perhaps it has been fixed up.

 

Either way, good job pointing out these two exceptions. 

However, for pretty much the other 99% of plugins, they properly don't require anything silly like this.

[Sarnaath]

The mod author actually recommends that specific load order for the esm file.

 

And yes, most mods don't require anything like this.  It seems to be a bug that can be avoided by putting new worldspaces in esp files, not esm.  Or fix with Gecko (although how exactly, I don't know).

 

Good to hear about Dibella's Watch.  That was on my list of mods to play someday.  I just gave up on finishing Kvatch Rebuilt: Undeground.  Damn silly puzzles that can kill, I hate them.

[DrN]

Sarnaath tyvm for spending  time to have a deep look at it.That was the problem I was trying to explain with my novice mod skills mind.Indeed it seems that the safest solutions are either play GtA2 first,then unistall it,or install both and swap order for Dibellas.

I remember reading some months ago in Tesalliance people talking about this issue,I 'll do some research and if they have found  another solution I 'll post the link.

Cheers for your help guys

[gregathit]

The mod author actually recommends that specific load order for the esm file.

 

And yes, most mods don't require anything like this.  It seems to be a bug that can be avoided by putting new worldspaces in esp files, not esm.  Or fix with Gecko (although how exactly, I don't know).

 

Good to hear about Dibella's Watch.  That was on my list of mods to play someday.  I just gave up on finishing Kvatch Rebuilt: Undeground.  Damn silly puzzles that can kill, I hate them.

 

 

I actually use Kvatch Aftermath myself.  I have always been a fan of Giskard's work. 

Kvatch aftermath can be found here: http://www.theengineeringguild.co.uk/index.php?option=com_rsfiles&view=files&Itemid=199&limitstart=0

 

He has a more recent Kvatch mod called Kvatch Rising but I have not gotten around to playing it yet.

 

His Elder Council's mod and the Origins of the Mages Guild mod are very good too.

[DrN]

Greg,copying from the link : Required = Cyrodiil Upgrade Resource Pack.Does it contain esm/esp files,conflict with OOO,morroblivion?

does Aftermath work with Rising?

[gregathit]

DrN, here are the answers to the best of my knowledge on the questions you asked:

1. CURP does not conflict with anything as it is merely a resource file.

2. Kvatch Aftermath and his other mods (elder council and mages guild) do not conflict with OOO. 

3. I have never used Morroblivion, so I don't have the slightest clue there.  I do intend to get to it, but my many commitments don't leave me much time to tinker with new mods.

4. You can only use ONE Kvatch mod at a time.  So unfortunately you will have to choose either Aftermath or Rising.  I can definitely recommend Aftermath, as that has been a part of my load order for quite a long time.  I have never used Rising so I don't know if it has conflicts or any other issues.

[DrN]

Thanks Greg, I think I'll try Kvatch rising soon