Bad news for ENB

[Edhelnaur]

Nice job. It looks better than vanilla for sure. I am interested to see the same images With a lot of textures pack (a lot are not compatible right now :-().

But i think it Would be hard to come close to the old ENBs. But lets HOPE guys

[three7]

Less fps drop - not bad news!

[27X]

Nice job. It looks better than vanilla for sure. I am interested to see the same images With a lot of textures pack (a lot are not compatible right now :-().

But i think it Would be hard to come close to the old ENBs. But lets HOPE guys

 

Without subsurface, skylighting, indirect lighting and reflected lighting, it's not going to look like the old ENB's at all, and that's kinda the entire point.

 

 

[forra]

 

Nice job. It looks better than vanilla for sure. I am interested to see the same images With a lot of textures pack (a lot are not compatible right now :-().

But i think it Would be hard to come close to the old ENBs. But lets HOPE guys

 

Without subsurface, skylighting, indirect lighting and reflected lighting, it's not going to look the old ENB's at all, and that's kinda the entire point.

 

 

Seems like SSE will be great for actually playing (once SKSE is out... next year), but absolutely out of the question for quality screenshots.  Those items are definitely dealbreakers.

[27X]

For me it's a playable thing; the entire point of constructing my own was to have something screenshot quality good but 100% playable. (Granted I play using two Pitan X's so playable for me does not probably translate very far for most )

 

But all of the imagework on FO4 has "a look" to it, and I can't say I'm a fan, and I doubt this version will be much different.

[Acornus]

I don't understand the logic here sometimes.

 

"Games look outdated, BOO BETHESDA".

*Implement basic PBR, exactly the stuff ENB was doing, under DX11*

"OMFG, we can't run ENB anymore with 75% of the effect disabled and only active while taking screen-shots without taking a dump on our FPS"

 

The game already has SSS, all light is reflected already, ambient lighting is still there and takes into account environment and cubemaps, and they're all usable in real-time and since it's base upon PBR math, you're also respecting the laws of thermodynamics, meaning everything doesn't go past the additive value of 1 (so you character doesn't end up looking like a human candle-wax who reflects the world like a piece of shiny metal).

 

Boris could save himself a great deal of work by simply jerry-rigging the run-time compilation of the global values in the shaders and having the user play around with them, this will of course kill performance since many of these values get 'locked' once the game has loaded for optimization reasons, but he could also implement a "modify>save>restart" function.

 

Or maybe someone could create an editor to directly change the global material/shader values at their source (we can already edit unique assets and their BGSM files) and just forget about this entire brute-force approach.

[27X]

There is no SSS, there is a shader which changes rgb tint based on time of day/weather and areas calculated as shaded, it does not simulate a kind of SSS and it affects entire meshes, not skin or any skin texture combination thereof. There is no PBR, not even FO4's absurd baked in "all environments including caves vaults and the outdoors are a 50s living room with window light" static PBR, light is not even kind of reflected thanks to 4 source per X limit which is very much still in place as the maintainer of ELO found out the hard way. Cubemaps still rely on a texture with an alpha blend and are not real time calculated in any way shape or form, cause as screenshots show the sun does not shine at night, unless you're wearing armor which reflects a secret ghost sun that's invisible to the naked eye.

 

Most of the shaders present are almost 100% precompiled, which means there will be very little alteration of them in post, so that basically leaves replacing Bethesda's shadows with proper occlusion and possible SSIL and your bog standard color correction.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Kaz Aanh]

I hope the 64bit version of enb will be able to tweak specular textures and lighting to some degree.

[Dtech]

I hope the 64bit version of enb will be able to tweak specular textures and lighting to some degree.

 

My lighting is in a good spot right now running RLO SE, Vivid weathers SE and enhanced lighting for enb ( no enb required ). Would def advise giving them a whirl.

[MKIIV]

According to Boris, we shouldn't expect the same amount of features for the Skyrim SE:

 

" (btw, game have some buggy character lighting which changes by angle of camera)"

 

This is what i noticed too trying to port my lighting into SE. It's driving me nuts.

 

Apple to Apples if you just transfer over lighting from Oldrim to SE it's not the same. Even taking into consideration volumetric lighting. The colors don't look right and the shadows and specularity are totally efed up on your character.

 

It's bad enough it makes me consider just staying with OG for now since i spent so much time getting exactly the lighting i want and not wanting to redo it all when it's never actually going to be the same anyway, at least with the way lighting in SE is right now. Hopefully they patch it or something, or if Boris does indeed do ENB he fixes it because the performance is obviously much better in SE.

 

 

SE Cloudy. Messed up shadows and specularity on your character model with respect to ambient lighting like Boris is describing.

 

If you rotate the camera it's really noticeable. It's in no way correct. And custom lighting doesn't fix it really, it can mask it a bit but not totally.

 

My own custom Lighting in Oldrim.

 

Same exact custom weather and settings in SE.

 

SE Default Same weather ( Skyrim Cloudy )

 

Its really hard to show without movement. But you can tell it doesn't even look the same. And overall SE looks pretty crap. Volumetric withstanding shouldn't affect this kind of shot. I've played with different ambients and volumetric settings anyway. It doesn't go away. Though you can lessen it a little. I still think over all the lighting in SE is worse than Vanilla OG because of this, and lighting mods and ambients alone cannot change that the way it is right now. Not from my testing anyway. Vivid, RLO, my own lighting all look crap compared to how they look in Original Skyrim.

 

[J.O.D.]

The only two (not allways) things I have ever used ENB on Sykrim for were ENBBoost and better shadows. Both are useless (for me) on SSE. I like it that way.

[CaffeineHigh]

The only two (not allways) things I have ever used ENB on Sykrim for were ENBBoost and better shadows. Both are useless (for me) on SSE. I like it that way.

 

I'm leaning the same way.  With the shadows not looking like they came from an 8-bit Mario Bros game anymore I'm much happier with the way the game looks.  If I use an ENB at all anymore it will be a really lightweight one. 

[MKIIV]

 

The only two (not allways) things I have ever used ENB on Sykrim for were ENBBoost and better shadows. Both are useless (for me) on SSE. I like it that way.

 

I'm leaning the same way.  With the shadows not looking like they came from an 8-bit Mario Bros game anymore I'm much happier with the way the game looks.  If I use an ENB at all anymore it will be a really lightweight one. 

 

 

They were fine if you set them up right. But i agree SE is smoother in that regard, but per my post and Boris comment, the shadows are actually even more screwed in SE some ways because the lighting is screwed, as i showed above.

 

Oldrim shadows when set up right. Also the second image in my post above is Oldrim shadows set up right. No jaggies at all.

[Zithan]

 

According to Boris, we shouldn't expect the same amount of features for the Skyrim SE:

 

" (btw, game have some buggy character lighting which changes by angle of camera)"

 

This is what i noticed too trying to port my lighting into SE. It's driving me nuts.

 

Apple to Apples if you just transfer over lighting from Oldrim to SE it's not the same. Even taking into consideration volumetric lighting. The colors don't look right and the shadows and specularity are totally efed up on your character.

 

It's bad enough it makes me consider just staying with OG for now since i spent so much time getting exactly the lighting i want and not wanting to redo it all when it's never actually going to be the same anyway, at least with the way lighting in SE is right now. Hopefully they patch it or something, or if Boris does indeed do ENB he fixes it because the performance is obviously much better in SE.

 

 

My own custom Lighting in Oldrim.

 

Same exact custom weather and settings in SE.

 

SE Default Same weather ( Skyrim Cloudy )

 

Its really hard to show without movement. But you can tell it doesn't even look the same. And overall SE looks pretty crap. Volumetric withstanding shouldn't affect this kind of shot. I've played with different ambients and volumetric settings anyway. It doesn't go away. Though you can lessen it a little. I still think over all the lighting in SE is worse than Vanilla OG because of this, and lighting mods and ambients alone cannot change that the way it is right now. Not from my testing anyway. Vivid, RLO, my own lighting all look crap compared to how they look in Original Skyrim.

 

 

Can't really understand what you're trying to get across with this, the "Custom lighting in Oldrim" screenshot looks almost identical to "Same exact custom weather and settings in SE.", obviously not exactly because its a slightly different angle etc.

 

As for directly porting lighting across and expecting it to look exactly the same, of course it wouldn't, SE has pretty big changes to the lighting compared to the original game, for the better as well. You will NEVER get shadows looking as good in original Skyrim as they do in SE, simply for the fact they no longer move every 20 seconds, instead it is a very slight constant movement as you would expect from proper shadows.

 

Using Vivid Weathers and Enhanced Lighting for ENB(plus WICO and a few other mods, no ENB of course), I don't see any issues.

 

http://imgur.com/iD8f4Hh

http://imgur.com/unhFvSY

http://imgur.com/VqDKdri

http://imgur.com/411kxBo

 

 

I can't say I noticed much in the way of lighting changing based on camera angle, apart from in the last 2 I took, which if you look at the arm, shows off a rim lighting effect. None of my shadows look pitch black though.

 

Edit: That is really weird how imgur must not allow embedding(or is blocking this site from doing so), I guess they can just be links for now.

[MKIIV]

 

 

According to Boris, we shouldn't expect the same amount of features for the Skyrim SE:

 

" (btw, game have some buggy character lighting which changes by angle of camera)"

 

This is what i noticed too trying to port my lighting into SE. It's driving me nuts.

 

Apple to Apples if you just transfer over lighting from Oldrim to SE it's not the same. Even taking into consideration volumetric lighting. The colors don't look right and the shadows and specularity are totally efed up on your character.

 

It's bad enough it makes me consider just staying with OG for now since i spent so much time getting exactly the lighting i want and not wanting to redo it all when it's never actually going to be the same anyway, at least with the way lighting in SE is right now. Hopefully they patch it or something, or if Boris does indeed do ENB he fixes it because the performance is obviously much better in SE.

 

 

My own custom Lighting in Oldrim.

 

Same exact custom weather and settings in SE.

 

SE Default Same weather ( Skyrim Cloudy )

 

Its really hard to show without movement. But you can tell it doesn't even look the same. And overall SE looks pretty crap. Volumetric withstanding shouldn't affect this kind of shot. I've played with different ambients and volumetric settings anyway. It doesn't go away. Though you can lessen it a little. I still think over all the lighting in SE is worse than Vanilla OG because of this, and lighting mods and ambients alone cannot change that the way it is right now. Not from my testing anyway. Vivid, RLO, my own lighting all look crap compared to how they look in Original Skyrim.

 

 

Can't really understand what you're trying to get across with this, the "Custom lighting in Oldrim" screenshot looks almost identical to "Same exact custom weather and settings in SE.", obviously not exactly because its a slightly different angle etc.

 

As for directly porting lighting across and expecting it to look exactly the same, of course it wouldn't, SE has pretty big changes to the lighting compared to the original game, for the better as well. You will NEVER get shadows looking as good in original Skyrim as they do in SE, simply for the fact they no longer move every 20 seconds, instead it is a very slight constant movement as you would expect from proper shadows.

 

Using Vivid Weathers and Enhanced Lighting for ENB(plus WICO and a few other mods, no ENB of course), I don't see any issues.

 

 

 

I can't say I noticed much in the way of lighting changing based on camera angle, apart from in the last 2 I took, which if you look at the arm, shows off a rim lighting effect. None of my shadows look pitch black though.

 

 

First shot is Oldrim my custom weather. It's Skyrim Cloudy with custom ambients and Image space. Second is same exact weather in SE. It's similar but obviously not the same. The contrast and saturation between the character and the world is off and the colors are a bit off looking as well. Third is just Vanilla Cloudy in SE just to show the Vanilla lighting by comparison.

 

Yes it's subtle to show in SShots but it's quite noticeable regardless. I had a bunch of images posted but the images weren't working, like yours aren't btw. I had to edit it three times. So finally i just stayed with the few that worked. 

 

But if you can't tell the difference you're probably not a candidate for the discussion. After spending 1000 hours lighting in the CK in the last few months - some of that texturing but ( i didn't know anything about SE coming i pay no attention) it is very noticeable to me. Thus annoyed.

 

Anyway RLO guys have finally noticed it and Boris noticed it. And i've read some other peoples thoughts on it finally. It is basically the new shaders yes. If you run any of the lighting mods like vivid or cot or rlo in oldrim side by side with SE there's an obvious to huge difference on my end.

Some weathers look nothing like they are supposed to.

 

And the shadows in SE, while movement is smooth they are fucked otherwise that is the point. Yes olrim shadows were messed as well, but it was somewhat fixable as i posted above. It's mostly the shaders and specular in SE and on characters where it's noticeable. It looks like chrome. If you move the camera so you look under your chin, it lights up underneath your chin. It should not do that. The light shines around your face in an odd way and light comes from nowhere. Since Boris mentioned it too i know i am not seeing things. It's how i found this thread actually because of that statement in the OPS quote. I was searching for anyone who saw what i see and it took a few days.

 

I guess don't go looking for it if you don't notice it because then it might bug you too, lol. The less stark the shadows the harder it is to notice but it's still there. As far as the weathers themselves. Some are worse than others. Here is a better example.

 

I'll try it again with the imjur anyway...Fix your images if you can. The image uploader way doesn't work. You have to copy the "linked bbcode" at imjur the second to the last one and just past it in your message. It only works as a link, even though it seems like it shows the image when you are creating your message.

 

Here's Vivid in Oldrim

 

Same weather Vivid SE

 

See it now? lol. 

 

[Zithan]

 

See it now? lol. 

 

 

What I see is you're likely right, I am not the right person

I can see the differences, but I am not sure specifically what you're talking about.

 

Overall the Oldrim shot does look better, what stood out straight away is the lights in the background.

To me, it seems there is a lot more modifications in the original then in the SE version.

I see a lack of visible lights in the background in the SE version, and obviously the whole thing looks like it has low contrast, but I feel like there is more mods adding to the appearance of the Oldrim shot that don't exist in the SE version.

 

That is my unmodder-experienced opinion, obviously I am not going to dispute what actual mod authors are saying.

I just feel that with the changes made to the shaders and lighting system for SE, that lighting might look differently compared to the original game, and porting across the same lights with the same settings wont look the same, and need to be readjusted to suit the new lighting system.

 

Again, I have not modded Skyrim, I am just basing it on my experience as a programmer, dealing with OpenGL and DirectX graphics programming,  shaders, Physically Based Rendering etc(PBR is still fairly new to me)

[MKIIV]

Yeah i just uninstalled so i don't have to worry about it, lol. I went back and forth and my 32bit version looks too good to bother with whatever benefit SE has or may not have and I'm not going through all that again. I'd probably get sick of it before i ever finished it and then still never actually play this game, which was the point anyway, to finally play it after all these years