multi body meshes+textures [prof of concept completed]

vee · March 23, 2012

Hello all, this is my first post here I think, thanks for the great mods people have pushed out!

This thread will be a long one, lets hope my lack of sleep doesn't affect my train of thought and grammar too much.

I've been on the skyrimnexus site testing mods out forever now, and when the Void UNP armor hit, I decided to test it but did not want to give up my default CBBE3 body. Long story short I used NifSkope to point the body texture that the Void UNP used to a custom textures folder for my UNP body, then disabled the flag SLSF1_FaceGen_RGB_Tint. This allowed the armor to use the 'skin' built from the armor and not inherit the default texture - with the bug that the in-game tint did not follow through to the character.

A few days later after I was told to post this as a mod, I was informed of a multi-race-multi-texture mod (http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=12732).

I had not even downloaded this but decided to open up SkyEdit and see what it offered me (the CK craps out on my system).

Another Long Story-shortened: My plan is to see non-replacer body meshes+textures in separate sub-folders, examples:

Textures+Meshes\CHSBHC
Textures+Meshes\CBBE#
Textures+Meshes\UNP
Textures+Meshes\RFBS

I made an ESP altering the Naked* in the "Armature" area, referencing the NIF's to point to the RFBS folder (note my default meshes+textures folder are CBBE3)

Then, since my character is a HighElf, I deleted the default referenced texture of the HighElf body and in game the naked high-elf pulled the texture from the NIF file, with working in game body tint and slider.

The biggest problem: Most every armor re-mesh I have installed (and my data folder is 15.5GB in size!) in one way or another references incorrect textures; [i'm also using the CBBE2 armor pack for a lot of things, and a mix match of the rest]

The usual problem I've noticed is the 'femaleastrid*.dds' file reference. I edited my 'Very Sexy Ebony' nif files to point to the default folder and the character model appeared great - but then there's the other thousands of files to edit...

I went ahead a used good-ol-windows SymLink's to point all 'femaleastrid*.dds' files to the corresponding female.dds files, so I was able to cheat in a way - it would be really killer to get the armor modders to not copy paste everything from the textures area.

I would love to see body modders include a non-replacer method for their mods; I plan to message the individual body mod creaters when I can, perhaps point them to this thread (I'm still avoiding the steam community forums as I have done for some years now).

Ideally it would be sweet to see folder structures like textures\\ but this can also take a bit of time.

the image, from left to right:

Nude Nord - stock body nif + texture + glossy _s.dds
Iona (race independent) - using a UNP mesh with CBBE3 texture (the CBBE convert broke skyrim) + glossy _s.dds
Breylna (Dark Elf) - CBBE3 armor + glossy _s.dds
Me (High Elf) - using my custom texture folder Void UNP armor with in game body tint to display the no-inherit glitch + glossy _s.dds
Nude High Elf - using RFBS (I may have forgot to do the hands and feet)

in case the image doesn't preview

EDIT: Proof of concept video and images at page 2, post #16:

or follow this link

Cicattrix · March 23, 2012

what can I tell you is that the mod linked by you and made by radioragae, with the folders for each race, has a big issue: apart from the base race, those that get new folders dont respond at the wight slider. I am not sure if the body is stuck on 0 or 100, or if it goes only at 0 and 100, as I didnt had time to test it, but you can see from its comments that others explained this. this may be ok, for your char and your follower, but you will get ugly seams for all the NPCs, which are usually are inbetween weights. it must be something related to the way the game handle the bodies, which cant be solved only with new folders and some esp pointing at them. maybe you have discovered this already, but if not, you must take note of this in order to have a complete solution.

also, if I have got things right, from what you say, I see now two ways... the Race folders, that would influence all the NPC (radioraggae) and the Body folders, that would be Armor tied (yours).

the Race folders mod sounds good, in theory... when I have seen it, I have went ”wow, I can make all elves CBBE and humans UNP. or viceversa”. but, in fact, I just fooled myself, because, unless I keep all NPCs naked or in bikini, their clothes and armors will take over and will impose their build in body shape. and is kinda hard to give only to the elves CBBE gear, as the clothing of the NPCs is a total mix up, well, with the exception of the clear factions uniforms (empire, thalmor, stormcloak). so, this is not a viable solutions for the bodies, only for the faces.

the Body folders, your solution, instead, goes to the root of the game engine. body shapes are just a base for clothes and armors. body shapes count as they are only for naked or skimpy armors. so, you seem to be on the right track. if we want to be able to use armors build for different bodies on the same time, we must change the way the game handle the bodies into the armor nif. but I cant tell nothing more atm, because I dont know what is SymLink and I didnt understood too well what you did into that esp, as i never looked at the way bodies are handled into CK.

thing is that this ”only one body mod” solution was easier for every modder out there, as they simply got the body inside, to build around it, and doesnt bothered anymore. but requiring them to know how to manage that esp may reduce the amount of ”easy” armor mods. unless, you provide that esp already made or you find a way to make this an easier process.

also, for some players, this may require a big comeback to change their armors, although, if the modders do their job for their old armors, this is just an easy job through NMM. on the other hand, this solution will make life easier for players, as they will be able to use any armor on the launch day, no matter the body used to build it.

anubis · March 23, 2012

LoL, i was about to post a question regarding this multiple body if its can be done or not, coz i'm really want to make UNP and ADEC can play well together in my skyrim.

Illuminati · March 23, 2012

I am currently working on a mod that will work along side Body by Race mod. It will allow each race to have their specific armor and clothes that the user can chose.

The only problem I'm running into is the lack of redundancy in the CK. Lets say you're using a armor/clothing replacer that doesn't quite cover every single piece of armor or clothing. On those missing items it will result in a missing mesh even though there is still the stock armor/clothing path in the .esp just with a slightly lower priority.

There are also other issues. There isn't always an armor/clothing replacer for each body. Also making the Esp future proof so that when a new piece of gear has been updated the mod will see that and will use it.

I use Body by Race and I have no problems with the sliders. I have even added Orc's and Beast support to my own custom version.

It would also be a great thing is if we can centralize or standardize the Body by Race mod so that all the creators of their respective body replacer is compatible with it. As it stands I'm packing multiple armor/clothing replaces into one mod, and that breaks several intellectual property codes.

There needs to be an easier way for basic users to assign the body, and its respective armor and clothing replacer, to which race he or she wants.

lefty · March 23, 2012

sounds pretty cool hopefully this will lead into a player race mod where as if you have a tat on your char it doesnt go on any other npc also it would enable play only animations lets say you what your char standing idle animation to play with the dildo thats if your playing as a girl with the adult toys mod or as a guy scratching your ass.

badcock · March 23, 2012

I too have been working on a similar mod. Though I was/am doing one race per mod, that way you could keep the default and selectively replace races, instead of having to set textures and meshes for every race. I thought I had it working perfectly for females (Bretons using UNP), but several males ended up naked that weren't supposed to be without clothes. Still need to track that down.

vee · March 24, 2012

I'm quite exhausted today so I apologize in advance of not being explicit or through.

I just fooled myself' date=' because, unless I keep all NPCs naked or in bikini, their clothes and armors will take over and will impose their build in body shape

[/quote']

My thoughts to this would be that whatever armor set is 'default' will be used per armor; so if you have the UNP in the default body mesh, and there is no replacer-armor then the armor and body will be the UNP from the default. If the armor is done to match the custom-body folders, then it will take the shape of the armor (the nif) and will take on the said body texture - each armor will need an ESP (divergent or convergent files) - would make it even more difficult but totally do-able.

Say the CBBE3 armor pack corresponded with the textures\cbbe3\ area - each 'race' would have it's own CBBE3 body .dds file making them look different, but same shapes. Or you could use the SmyLink method to make all race's link to 1 folder, or have a particular ESP to ignore race's.

SymLink:

think of these as a Windows shortcut; when you click a shortcut to a program (Shortcut to Acrobat) for example - residing on your Desktop, the file name is "Shortcut to Acrobat.lnk", Windows takes it's Working Directory to the resident location of the shortcut, and executes whatever the LNK file points to. A SymLink would be "Shortcut to Acrobat.exe", think of it making a physical copy of a particular file/folder from a source to a destination, however the file size is unmeasurable/insignificantly small as it is a reference to the file, but the system (when you click it) acts like the file is at the location - on your Desktop.

@Illuminati: have you try SkyEdit vs the CK? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:SkyEdit

If it is done with the ability to be nice and dynamic the armor modders will need to go with the flow if they want to support it.

Later this weekend I'll work on this using a UNP and CBBE and whatever other multi-armors I can find as a distributable proof of concept.

Illuminati · March 24, 2012

I too have been working on a similar mod. Though I was/am doing one race per mod' date=' that way you could keep the default and selectively replace races, instead of having to set textures and meshes for every race. I thought I had it working perfectly for females (Bretons using UNP), but several males ended up naked that weren't supposed to be without clothes. Still need to track that down.

[/quote']

I was thinking about doing it that way also, but I wanted simplicity for the players. Plus if you're anything like me, you hate having 10 esps doing small stuff. I'd rather have one that I know does everything and its all I need.

I should be done reworking all the paths for all the races for all gear in the next couple of weeks. Though I can put out what I have now and get some feed back on it.

Illuminati · March 24, 2012

@Illuminati: have you try SkyEdit vs the CK? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:SkyEdit

What does this do that the CK doesn't?

badcock · March 24, 2012

I too have been working on a similar mod. Though I was/am doing one race per mod' date=' that way you could keep the default and selectively replace races, instead of having to set textures and meshes for every race. I thought I had it working perfectly for females (Bretons using UNP), but several males ended up naked that weren't supposed to be without clothes. Still need to track that down.

[/quote']

I was thinking about doing it that way also, but I wanted simplicity for the players. Plus if you're anything like me, you hate having 10 esps doing small stuff. I'd rather have one that I know does everything and its all I need.

I should be done reworking all the paths for all the races for all gear in the next couple of weeks. Though I can put out what I have now and get some feed back on it.

I would be happy to help you test your version. I haven't had time to work out all the kinks in my version yet.

lumenbeing · March 25, 2012

I've been using the CK to build a ArmorbyRace.esp that allows me to have different armor replacers for each race. I load that on top of the armor by race mod. Essentially, I created a new folder /meshes/armor/racespecific/ and within that I have a subfolder for each race that uses a different body type.

My personal body setup is all elves are UNP, all Nords are CbbE3 with chiseled textures, orcs are Real Bodies, Redgaurds are cbbev3m and imps and bretons are vanilla.

So what I do is I manually download my armor mods. NMM will not work for this.

Some armor mods just edit the mesh and use vanilla textures, others include texture replacers in addition to meshes, some are JUST texture replacers, and still others, the standalone types include their own custom texture folder and the texture paths in those nifs point to them. The first and last cases are the easiest to deal with.

So for example, let's say you want to include a skimpy dwarven armor from killer keo built for cbbe. So step 1 is to download the armor mod (you may need to unpack a bsa file if it is a big armor collection type replacer) and put its meshes in the new /racespecific/Nord folder i made (because nords are cbbe).

Next I use the CK (working with my armorbyrace.esp file loaded) to edit the ARMO for the dwarven armor. Inside the ARMO is a box that lists the ARMA's that belong to it. You have to tick the show all box to see them all (duh). If there is only one, double click on it and that will open up the ARMA. Now what I do is add "_cbbe" to the end of the ARMA name. and save it. That prompts me to create a new ARMA. I say yes then i edit the new ARMA some more. At the top I select Nord instead of "default race" Then in the box on the right I deselect every race except Nord Vampire (even deselect Nord because these are additional races and I've already got Nord selected as the race for this ARMO).

Then you click on the file path for the 3rd person female model and browse to killerkeo's mesh in the meshes/armor/racespecific/nord/ folder.

Just pick the _1.nif and the ck will know to use both _0 and _1 for the slider.

Save the ARMA, and I'm back in the ARMO for dwarven armor. Now I rightclcik in the ARMA box and select "add new" and then select the new ARMA I just created (will be something like dwarvencuirass_cbbe). Next I need to go into the default ARMA and deselct Nord and Nord Vampire form the additional races list. Save that default ARMA, save the ARMO, and then same the .esp

Now if I load my game with the armorbyrace.esp and I give Lydia the Dwarven armor, she will be whearing Killer Keo's version and if there is a imperial standing right next to her whereing dwarven, that imperial's armor will still be vanilla.

Because KillerKeo's armor mod is meshes only I don't have to worry about textures. If I was doing this for another mod that also included texture replacers, i would have to use nifscope to edit the texture pathes in the two nifs (_0 and _1) for that mod and point them to a sister folder. /textures/armor/racespecific/nord

Now I repeat the whole process for elves so they can use a dwarven armor made for UNP. I am another new ARMA to that same Dwarven armor ARMO in the CK and name it dawrvencuirass_UNP. Only difference here is that I select one of the elven races for the main race and select all elven races and elf vampire racesin the additional races box.

Yes this a labor intensive way to do things, but it does work. And I only work on it a little at a time as I select armor mods that I really like. If someone has a better way to do it, let me know. I imagine there has to be a way to use scripting to check which race an NPC is and look for ALL their armor in a custom folder as opposed to the default meshes.bsa. Then you could just unpack the vanilla meshes and textures BSA's in every custom folder you make (as a fallback) and overwrite them with new and better armor mods as you see fit.

Illuminati · March 25, 2012

Sounds like me and you, Lumenbeing, have done the same exact thing. How far along are you on your mod? You're "fallback" idea is one that would work, though it's a very inefficient way to do it. There has to be a way within the CK to tell the game "If this isn't here, then look here".

lumenbeing · March 25, 2012

I don't know how to say how far along I am. Many of the armors out there don't suit me. I'm really pick and mostly only like the ones that are sexy and lore friendly at the same time. Completely topless or completely bottomless of just some messing round with an alpha channel doesn't do anything for me. So when I do see an armor I like, I download it and add it to the mod when i have time.

I really don't know where to begin with scripting it into something better. No time to learn papyrus.

Illuminati · March 25, 2012

Then I guess I'm going something a little different. I'm basicly making place markers for players to put any kind of armor they want into a race folder: Argonian, Breton, Darkelf, etc...

Right now you can swap armor and clothes out to fit your tastes. The only problem is, like I said, if there isn't an armor nothing renders even though there is still the old existing path leading to the original armor/clothing.

badcock · March 25, 2012

lumenbeing, I followed the same process you outlined. After I got a couple of Nightasy's armors working for the UNP body, I went and did the remainder of the armors and clothing. I think I should have done a couple and tested them before moving on to the next set.

I used the race as an extension instead of the body type (i.e. _Breton).

vee · March 25, 2012

Well, I took some time today to get this working (it was editing the UNP and CBBE3 nifs, I used an armor that came with both a UNP and CBBE3 version (R18Pn 00 - Heilige Mutter Armor for UNP and CBBE V3)

I modified the ESP to include both, giving each armor type an appended "CBBE3" or "UNP" name (perhaps it would be better with a prefix "CBBE3:" and "UNP:" respectively)

The armor does not go by race, the folder structure is as follows:

meshes\UNP\R18pn\*

meshes\CBBE3\R18pn\*

textures\R18Pn\* [ the files here are identical in both UNP and CBBE3 downloaded versions ]

In this particular case, the dds files are the same, so there was no need to make divergent UNP+CBBE textures sub-folders; Also the Helmet in this mod is also the same NIF file, so technically it would be possible to make 1 entry in it vs a UNP and CBBE3 version (see picture below).

I will be posting the ESP later tonight or tomorrow afternoon (around 24hrs from now if not tonight)

I have a <100MB video, and 10 screenshots of this concept:

<100MB mkv Video (downloadable only):

Note: probably requires a right-click and save as

TESV 2012-03-25 15-38-18-468 Heilige Mutter Armor UNP+CBBE3.mkv

10 Screenshots:

[the last 2 pictures are the diff between the UNP and CBBE3 gloves, otherwise the pics look very similar]

Straight URL's to pictures:

Embedded (All 10 at once) Pictures:

ScreenShot11902

ScreenShot11892

ScreenShot11893

ScreenShot11894

ScreenShot11895

ScreenShot11896

ScreenShot11897

ScreenShot11898

ScreenShot11899

ScreenShot11900

ScreenShot11901

angelmeats · March 26, 2012

I already have a heavily tweaked version of 4udik's alteration of the Unique Bodies esp that allows me to use various meshes, textures, and skeletons for all races and genders.

If y'all can get this armor thing working, that would be amaaaaziiing! Then my Skyrim would be complete.

vee · March 26, 2012

In the latest release, I've simply added a new Skin for CBBE3 and UNP and it references the textures\ folder, should be easy to expand as necessary; I thought I had removed something the first time but looking back to whatever I did last week, I've simply forgot - lack of sleep will do that. I have a few changes I will do then commit the ESP for people to study, review and use. I will make a second version throughout the week to deal with divergent race classes.

I have yet another idea that will allow for 1 instance of a particular armor set (say UNP only of an armor) that upon dropping on a character using CBBE3 should take the appropriate textures - I will play around with this, I only hope the ideas work. I have been encouraged to take this thread to the Beth-forums to get some more ideas from there; we'll see.

vee · April 17, 2012

For everybody who was interested in this, I've created a mod that can be used by other mods when creating armors (it's a skyrim master file, esm) - it combines 15 body shapes (nifs) and unique textures for each: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=15047

and the Void armor example that uses the above ESM file: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=12482

I have a few other armor examples to post but havent yet, someday soon

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multi body meshes+textures [prof of concept completed]

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