The state of breast physics? And other newb questions.

[Fredas]

Now that I am wrapping up FONV and fixing to think seriously about buying Skyrim for the second time and modding the heck out of it, I find it's a good idea to start ironing out my plan of attack.  And the first step is to ask the biggest questions.

 

I admit it.  I'm lazy.  I spent about six hours trying to come to grips with where things stand with breast physics in Skyrim.  I gather it's actually somewhat new, even though the game's years old now.  New enough that I have yet to see a video of the effect which didn't basically turn breasts into pendulums on springs.  I stumbled upon this video, which showcases some of the built-in animation for a particular body.  The effect is quite appealing.  However, since it is not tied to a physics engine, it is also artificial: The animation itself changes its speed not in keeping with gravity but with the speed of the running, and it also pauses briefly at each loop (pinpointed as when the breasts are pointing to her upper-left - see for yourself).  That's a problem I spotted while playing FONV.. animation loops often have a tiny pause that you can't un-see.  Sad to see it return in Skyrim.

 

Question 1: Is there any way to set up HDT (or whatever folks use) so that the effect witnessed in the above video is more or less achieved during running?  I am not suggesting that the effect is true-to-life, but neither is HDT in the state I've seen it.  I'm basically hoping there is some means of getting a nice swinging motion out of the physics engine, without it looking more like, well, a springy motion.

 

Question 2: Barring that, would it be a good idea - or even possible - to utilize a combination of animation and physics to achieve at least a sort of makeshift realism while also getting the swinging motion?

 

Question 3: Does HDT take gravity into account?  For example, take a female torso, aimed down at the ground.  The breasts should change appearance in accordance with the change in gravity's vector.  Similarly, a woman lying on her back should result in the breasts shifting to one or both sides (depends on the angle, I imagine).  Granted, one can hardly merit calling it a physics engine without taking gravity into account, but I haven't been able to find videos showcasing anything but running, walking and dancing.  Makes it difficult to judge.

 

Simultaneously with the physics research, I was on the hunt for the state of the art in Skyrim female bodies, and I have concluded that UNPB seems to be the best, and is a good match for the superior Type 3F which I currently use in FONV (after having made considerable tweaks).  Considering how long I had to search before discovering the essentially perfect Type 3F, it is, I suppose, little wonder that the choices for Skyrim are limited and have tradeoffs.  One wonders at the prospect of importing Type 3F, or at least its lingerie.  (I haven't seen anything quite as great in any Skyrim screenshot as the lingerie in that Type 3F shot.)

 

Question 4: Note the images in my Type 3F link.  The nipples are of a particular shape, which I have seen described as "puffy".  I find this type to be uniquely attractive.  It is also absent from any Skyrim body that I've seen.  Have I overlooked one?  What would be a good option for achieving something like it in Skyrim?

 

Question 5: I see a lot of screenshots showcasing the 0% and 100% body sliders.  If you want larger breasts, you shift the body slider towards 100%.  This has the dubious side effect of making the woman, well, more padded in all other areas.  Limbs, waist, hips.  At higher numbers, only the lack of belly fat prevents one from identifying the result as overweight.  What does one do if they would prefer not to affect more than the breast size?

 

Probably other nagging questions I couldn't dredge up, but that's all I got for now.  Thanks in advance!

 

[Redflyingmonkey]

Heya ! 

1- The easiest way to get the most stable HDT physics is to download the Havok object here on loverslab, by some genius kid whose name I forgot. Just type Havok object and don't forget to thank him if this works for you. It's kind of weird that it works so easily when the HDT physics information team is going bonkers trying to make a stable version for months now, but anywho ... 
2- On my installation I got a TBBP body, with dragonfly's TBBP animations, the XPMS skeleton, and the HDT havok object. All in all, this builds some seriously solid movement, from the classic sideway boob jiggles, to the mighty impressive interactions with some idles you can find on loverslab too, the breasts actually moving when they're interacted with. Same for the butt by the way, with some tweakings that you can find everywhere concerning HDT, for example deleting skeleton_female.hkx in your meshes, you can get some really good motions, they're not at the level of the japanese nerd god and his videos but it's getting close. 
3- I never had the opportunity to really see how the gravity works, but for example when I tweaked the boobs size on racemenu IG, I would get a sort of bug where my modified boobs would stand like, in the air, completely still. After that, I equipped the HDT object and believe me or not but they fell immediately to a normal stance, jiggling in the process and shit, as if they somehow discovered gravity. 
4-5 : Lol, I was in your place like, 4 days ago, now that I got bodyslide all those problems disappeared. Puffier nipples since that's your stuff, a bodyslider that only changes the breast shape if you only want the breast shape to change, armor conversions, PSB support and whatnot, I can't believe I never tried that before, it changed my whole game. 

You can go see Lother's topic called "My character" here on Loverslab, he guides you step by step to get whatever you need to get, and even gives some natural looking body presets that doesn't make your character seem like some manga character/doll/BBW porn actress. 

[Fredas]

2- On my installation I got a TBBP body, with dragonfly's TBBP animations, the XPMS skeleton, and the HDT havok object. All in all, this builds some seriously solid movement, from the classic sideway boob jiggles, to the mighty impressive interactions with some idles you can find on loverslab too, the breasts actually moving when they're interacted with.

 

So it's possible to combine animations and HDT, and apparently the best solution by some accounts.  Good.  That's what I was expecting / hoping.  Would love to see a video of the kind of effect you describe.

 

they're not at the level of the japanese nerd god and his videos but it's getting close.

 

Link to said individual and his videos? ;p

 

now that I got bodyslide all those problems disappeared. Puffier nipples since that's your stuff, a bodyslider that only changes the breast shape if you only want the breast shape to change, armor conversions, PSB support and whatnot, I can't believe I never tried that before, it changed my whole game. 

 

Okay, so it sounds like the bodyslider is way more versatile than mere example screenshots can convey.  I guess I will just have to grab the game and mods and see what can be seen.

 

[Fredas]

Hmm.  Now that I've had a chance to look at what BodySlide offers, it doesn't seem as though there's any way to force a change to the shape of the nipples.  You get a slider for nipple size.  That won't make the areola "puffy" like in the Type 3F screenshot.  It'll just basically change the scale of the entire nipple, leaving the areola flat.

 

[Redflyingmonkey]

Did you check the advances options ? "perky nipples" slider, the "up" and "down" nipple sliders and whartnot. Heck there are so many nipples sliders I made a char named "Eleonor Perky-Nipples", guess what her most redeeming feature was. 
And Fredas, here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfBZ82pZ0QE. Mine don't jiggle near as much but I prefer my way, looks a bit more realistic, as far as tits jinggling everytime you breath go ... All sexlab animations one way or another starts the HDT physics, it's physics anyway so it's only logical that a animation which makes you move relies on the new physics support. It all depends on the intensity of the thing, for example most AP animations have really rigid stances, and you won't see much, but the AP boobjob is just legendary, it's going to make me miss my exams if this carries on... 
 

[Fredas]

Did you check the advances options ? "perky nipples" slider, the "up" and "down" nipple sliders and whartnot. Heck there are so many nipples sliders I made a char named "Eleonor Perky-Nipples", guess what her most redeeming feature was.

 

I admit I am having to go strictly by screenshots - in this case, a screenshot of what I assumed to be the complete settings, though in hindsight I suppose I was actually looking at just the 0% & 100% bodyslide setup.  Going to cross my fingers on this one. ;p

 

And Fredas, here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfBZ82pZ0QE. Mine don't jiggle near as much but I prefer my way, looks a bit more realistic

 

That video highlights what I was talking about, re: the pendulum on a spring.  At the end, when she brushes her breast with her hand, initially it's fairly convincing, but the problem that seems to remain unsolved is that there's nothing putting the brakes on the jiggle.  It just keeps going and going, at an ever decreasing magnitude.  It's the wrong bell curve.  Real breasts have physical properties which end the jiggle earlier than with, say, a water balloon.  It also seems to be operating a bit slow, like at half gravity or something.

 

All sexlab animations one way or another starts the HDT physics, it's physics anyway so it's only logical that a animation which makes you move relies on the new physics support. It all depends on the intensity of the thing, for example most AP animations have really rigid stances, and you won't see much, but the AP boobjob is just legendary, it's going to make me miss my exams if this carries on... 

 

Using FONV (still currently playing) as a frame of reference, I gotta say there probably won't be a great deal of Sexlab utilization going on with my playthrough.  What I will be doing a lot of is running and sneaking. ;p  The other thing is that all of my, er, interactions with NPCs will be of a F/F nature, which means - excepting situations involving strap-ons or equivalent - the movement involved will be pretty minimized.  Or at least that's how it goes with FONV and the ZAZ animations.

 

Speaking of strap-ons, one wonders if the animations adjust to the fact that both participants are female, or if it just makes one female move like a male.  (Guess which would be preferable. ;p )

[hryh23k9823u]

The nipple part is funny, cause bodyslide includes like 6 or 7 sliders only for the nipples (plus according to Cell, soon we gonna have a new "areola slider"). Too much sliders for the nipples ah?

[Redflyingmonkey]

Yea, I like to rampage around in my skyrim installation but that video just dissuaded me from going any further, I mean even with all my borderline not immersive mods I still want to play Skyrim and not some porn roleplay game, for me the animations, the sexlab framework and all that should be ressources that you can use in your game to enhance the universe, they shouldn't be intrusive and modify anything, just add stuff that you can activate when you start to get bored or when you actually need a little push to help you in the game. So I say ok to adding physics to my character's body, but not completely revamping it into a jiggling piece of manga tofu. 

Can't help you with that, I recently installed "equipable shlongs of skyrim", as well as something called "sexlab cumshot", and I can make my char transgender when I want to, add her the Shlong and she immediately uses male animation on my lady Mjoll, no strapons or anything. When I'm done I just take the shlong back off, take a dump on Aerin's body in the cellar, and run off to kill some Imperials. 

[hryh23k9823u]

Oh, I played Skyrim serious back in... 2011. Now's just a porn game to me xD

[Redflyingmonkey]

Oh, I played Skyrim serious back in... 2011. Now's just a porn game to me xD

Bahaha ! Maybe in some time I'll get bored too, but I played for 3 years now and I've done so much modding that I couldn't even finish all the vanilla quests, without talking about all the quests I got from mods like Interesting Npcs, Falskaar, wyrmtooth and all that... To be honest I didn't even finish Dragonborn, and I only ever played the Dawnguard DLC with the dawnguard after I saw what vampires' faces looked like... My dragonborn got so much shit to do, and she's just staying there getting gangbanged by Whiterun guards in their barracks trying to figure out how she could make her butt jiggle in a more natural way ... 

 

PS : And now with the Forbidden fruit mod going out too, I'm still going to play this game for a loooong time ... 

[Fredas]

In my case, what I've been doing with FONV is a 100.0% complete content run, ie every possible scrap of content, it's getting explored / uncovered / done.  It's my third playthrough and I aim to make it my last.  To that end, I spent easily two solid months just getting mods in place, and most of that was spent on my character alone.  Finding the perfect body, texture tweaks, and the best breast animations available to the game (really not easy to find, and definitely not what most people use).  This was important because one of my playthrough criteria was that I would never fast travel.  I've stuck with it.  That's a lot of traveling.  Believe me, the animations make it far more entertaining.

 

I know enough now to be aware that I'm just beginning to scratch the surface of everything I'll have to do to get Skyrim going in as perfect a state as possible, but the appeal of the travel animations / psysics has to rank near the top of my list of priorities.

 

 

PS : And now with the Forbidden fruit mod going out too, I'm still going to play this game for a loooong time ... 

 

That piqued my interest as well.  But it looks like development on it is still very early, as in they've only completed the floor plan and that's it.  Probably at least half a year out.  This is the only mod which I want but may have to do without just because I'm not waiting that long.

 

take a dump on Aerin's body in the cellar

 

So I gotta ask.. what mod(s) enables that particular procedure? ;p

 

[Redflyingmonkey]

In my case, what I've been doing with FONV is a 100.0% complete content run, ie every possible scrap of content, it's getting explored / uncovered / done.  It's my third playthrough and I aim to make it my last.  To that end, I spent easily two solid months just getting mods in place, and most of that was spent on my character alone.  Finding the perfect body, texture tweaks, and the best breast animations available to the game (really not easy to find, and definitely not what most people use).  This was important because one of my playthrough criteria was that I would never fast travel.  I've stuck with it.  That's a lot of traveling.  Believe me, the animations make it far more entertaining.

 

I know enough now to be aware that I'm just beginning to scratch the surface of everything I'll have to do to get Skyrim going in as perfect a state as possible, but the appeal of the travel animations / psysics has to rank near the top of my list of priorities.

 

 

PS : And now with the Forbidden fruit mod going out too, I'm still going to play this game for a loooong time ... 

 

That piqued my interest as well.  But it looks like development on it is still very early, as in they've only completed the floor plan and that's it.  Probably at least half a year out.  This is the only mod which I want but may have to do without just because I'm not waiting that long.

 

take a dump on Aerin's body in the cellar

 

So I gotta ask.. what mod(s) enables that particular procedure? ;p

Aha, I'm doing a no fast travel playthrough too, I even disabled it with Frostfall (dude I have Frostfall, I love it so much I don't even care if I have to wear a cape which hides my beautiful jiggling butt most of the time). I installed Become a Bard too, and I have this big ass lute on my back, and with frostfall and amazing follower tweaks, and all the sex mods too let's not forget it, camping became EPIC ! Sometimes I feel like I'm playing house, but it's sooooo good, like, I set up my tent, next to my dragonkiller cart in which 2 of my followers travel with me, then a fireplace, the tents for the followers, I go pick up some woods to feed the fire until the morning while my 2 bitches, who are Interesting NPCs followers (that means LOTS of idle talk, and for the most part it's dynamic, which means if I'm camping in the woods they actually say they're scared of being outside and that we should look for a place inside or make a fire quickly and shit), so my 2 bitches are busy making food or torturing Aerin (I made him a follower and kill him from time to time before reanimating him as a thrall/shitting on him) .

Honestly, I think this is as close as you can get to a completely immersive game, I mean I can prostitute myself to a bandit, make him take me in his camp, screw him and when they're all sleeping, killing the bounty'ed chief for example, or I can slow my exposure by fucking Mjoll for example, that's how I like the mods here, the best of them just blend in. 

 

And Private Needs, that's the name if you want to poop on Aerin too

[hryh23k9823u]

I dont use cloak all the time, I use sexlab warmbodies instead. That's it, maintaining the body warm by having sex

[Fredas]

Aha, I'm doing a no fast travel playthrough too, I even disabled it with Frostfall (dude I have Frostfall, I love it so much I don't even care if I have to wear a cape which hides my beautiful jiggling butt most of the time). I installed Become a Bard too, and I have this big ass lute on my back, and with frostfall and amazing follower tweaks, and all the sex mods too let's not forget it, camping became EPIC ! 

 

First I heard of Frostfall, and it definitely looks like something I will need to seriously consider.  The downside is that there's no way I'm going to be wearing heavy clothing, or much of anything really, so I'd probably have to find ways to tweak (eliminate) that particular necessity.  Realism is important, but it's still secondary to other things.

 

my 2 bitches, who are Interesting NPCs followers (that means LOTS of idle talk, and for the most part it's dynamic, which means if I'm camping in the woods they actually say they're scared of being outside and that we should look for a place inside or make a fire quickly and shit)

 

Hadn't heard of this either, haha.  This one I'm not so sure about.  It's an extremely impressive piece of work but I still very much prize a canonical experience.  I'll have to investigate what all it adds and see if things can be cherrypicked.  Or I may just say screw it and use the thing. ;p

[Redflyingmonkey]

If there's one mod you need to install if you've already finished Skyrim's main quest, it's Interesting NPCs. And SkyRe or Requiem too, to go with it. They're the absolute base of modding for me, one enhances the gameplay, the other greatly enhances the universe by adding, well, interesting NPCs, quests, main quests, radiant quests, marriage partners, lesbians, gays, bisexuals, the Dwarvenborn true savior of Tamriel, dialogues, dialogues and dialogues. Starting a playthrough without going to pick up Zora in her cave where she got intentionally enslaved so a hero could save her is just nonsense to me, the girl has an amazing AI, an amazing voice, and the more she talks the more you're drawn into her story, and by extension to the game. The best part about this is that there are dozens of NPCs as interesting as her with the mod, it's just perfect. As someone who's learning to write movie scripts in college, this is basically a model of perfection. 

[Fredas]

You're doing a great job of selling the mod to me. ;p

 

With Interesting NPCs, I'll have to investigate just what it changes and see if that sits well with me.  If it's just NPCs placed here and there in a fully transparent fashion, that sounds fine.  If, however, the mod insinuates itself into canonical content like quests, dungeons etc., or does something silly like adding new loot, that starts to step over the line.  And the final concern is that if I want to see all the Skyrim content, I can follow the Wikia because it's 100% legit.  Not the case with somebody's mod.

 

It's true that I did already 99.9% complete Skyrim (no DLC) years back.  Problem is I barely remember any of it.  It's not as memorable a game as FONV.  The two things I remember the clearest?  1) Dozens of dungeons and they're all like bronze and blue and have either undead or clockwork enemies.  Pretty much all the same.  2) Muiri was the only half-decent looking woman in the entire world.  Point is that if I'd played it like half a year ago, I'd definitely be on board for something new, even if it was put together by fans.. but that assumes I'd already be willing to play the game again. ;p

 

It's a shame I've always considered followers to be baggage.  In FONV, whenever I had to lug one around, I'd always tell them to wait before I went and did anything dangerous.  Don't like people taking my kills, don't like having to worry about other folks.  I have a particular playstyle and it doesn't mesh at all well with any kind of assistance.

 

[hryh23k9823u]

You're doing a great job of selling the mod to me. ;p

 

With Interesting NPCs, I'll have to investigate just what it changes and see if that sits well with me.  If it's just NPCs placed here and there in a fully transparent fashion, that sounds fine.  If, however, the mod insinuates itself into canonical content like quests, dungeons etc., or does something silly like adding new loot, that starts to step over the line.  And the final concern is that if I want to see all the Skyrim content, I can follow the Wikia because it's 100% legit.  Not the case with somebody's mod.

 

It's true that I did already 99.9% complete Skyrim (no DLC) years back.  Problem is I barely remember any of it.  It's not as memorable a game as FONV.  The two things I remember the clearest?  1) Dozens of dungeons and they're all like bronze and blue and have either undead or clockwork enemies.  Pretty much all the same.  2) Muiri was the only half-decent looking woman in the entire world.  Point is that if I'd played it like half a year ago, I'd definitely be on board for something new, even if it was put together by fans.. but that assumes I'd already be willing to play the game again. ;p

 

It's a shame I've always considered followers to be baggage.  In FONV, whenever I had to lug one around, I'd always tell them to wait before I went and did anything dangerous.  Don't like people taking my kills, don't like having to worry about other folks.  I have a particular playstyle and it doesn't mesh at all well with any kind of assistance.

 

Funny you mention the 'vanilla' loot, cause vanilla Skyrim is a complete piece of garbage. Loot is auto-generated according to your level, and not only that you can find a daedric set in any chest if you're leveled enough, that also applies for enemy npc's (that also levels with you)  ;o

If you already completed Skyrim in 360, take advantage of playing now PC and first thing you should look into is the main Skyrim overhauls, being SkyRe and Requiem the two most common (although there are other good options/combos). And specifically, about the loot, back in my old times when I played skyrim immersively and serous, I used Morrowloot, that basically deletes all loots that are superior to steel, making stuff like ebony only being property of a few rich families in skyrim, and stuff like dwemer accesories only obtainable in dwemer ruins, and also you can't magially learn how to craft dragon/daedric stuff (and there's only one single daedric set in game, splitted through the world).

 

However what I use now is the contrary, I have lot's of mods that adds armor and weapons (not only porn armors, serious armors too), and thanks to SkyProc patches, you can easily integrate the stuff in a consecuent way in the leveled lists.

 

[Hitom]

I only finished the dawnguard part of the game before I started modding like cray cray xD Wanna make my perfect mod collection before I actually finish the entire game.