Belly bulge physics going haywire on deep monster penetration.

[Beazzzz]

Hello everyone,

 

This is my first time posting a problem on this website, so i hope i'm doing everything in the right manner.

 

It seems i had posted this in skyrim LE technical support initially, so i reposted it here instead. Sorry about that.

 

My problem lies with sexual monster animations that involve very deep penetration.

If the penetration is shallow, or the penis isn't very large, the physics work as intended, but as soon as the penetration is too deep, or the penis is too large, the belly bulge physics go absolutely nuts.

I'm talking heavily bouncing up and down almost like it's trying to work off of 2 physics configurations at the same time.

As if one is trying to keep the belly down, and the other is trying to expand it if that makes sense.

I have modded my skyrim before, and when i had it back then, everything worked perfectly with the dillgently adjusted values in the CBPCcollisionconfigfemale.txt. But when i try to adjust that now, it does nothing except create a bigger bulge that heavily bounces up and down.

If anymore information is required, i'll be happy to provide it, and i'm really hoping there is a fellow monster animation enthusiast that could help a fellow out.

I'll provide my modlist and load order below.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

PS. I'm aware that things could be quite messy. I have been trying to clean everything up and make it more neat and organized in my load order and modlist. Sorry in advance.

loadorder.txt modlist.txt

[traison]

Well, on a hybrid setup (cbpc+smp) there's 3 belly bulge effects at work at once if everything is incorrectly configured. I'd suggest you pick one method and stick to it, otherwise it's definitely going to jitter and bounce uncontrollably. However, in my experience, there is no configuration that can handle everything. You can make the motion of something very sluggish to achieve smoother collisions, but this will look very odd when you're running etc.

 

So, assuming you intend to switch to "fake" belly bulging provided by cbpc:

1. Remove NPC Belly and/or HDT Belly from SMP.
2. Find the CBPCollisionConfig_*.txt that applies to your character.
3. Comment out NPC Belly and/or HDT Belly mapping.
4. Set BellyBulge to 1.
5. Increase BellyBulgeMax to ensure it does not run out of range.
6. Potentially increase BellyBulgePosLowest as well.
7. Adjust the collision shapes defined for NPC Spine1 [Spn1] if needed.

[Beazzzz]

Hi, thank you for your reply.

 

I do intend to switch to CBPC's belly bulge, and i did check that option to use CBPC for the belly and SMP for the rest.

I'm not interested in any belly jiggles or movement while regularly moving around, so it looking odd while running wouldn't be much of an issue (assume that's what you meant)

 

Would it be possible for you to elaborate on these steps to show exactly what i need to be changing ? 

I have to admit that aside from changing the numerical values of the belly bulging i have absolutely no clue what i'm doing in these config files, nor do i know what "Comment out" would entail.

 

Thanks in advance.

[traison]

46 minutes ago, Beazzzz said:

Would it be possible for you to elaborate on these steps to show exactly what i need to be changing ?

 

Those steps are quite literal already, so not really. My cpbc configs are custom made, and yours are going to be specific to wherever you got yours from. The CBPC mod page has most basics documented already, that's probably where you want to start.

 

49 minutes ago, Beazzzz said:

nor do i know what "Comment out" would entail.

 

Basic coding term. Means turning a line of code into a comment, essentially disabling/deleting it, without deleting it. For CBPCollisionConfig*.txt files, the known comment characters are ";" and "#". So:

 

[AffectedNodes]

NPC Belly #Enabled

 

[AffectedNodes]

#NPC Belly #Disabled

[Beazzzz]

All right, so i at least understand what you mean with these terms now, so thank you for elaborating on that.

 

However, i've been trying to implement them, and no matter what i try, it doesn't seem to fix it.

I got to the point where i forgot what the original values were (oops) but thankfully i backed it up before so i could restore it to the original if it somehow made it worse or if i messed it up like i did.

 

If it's not too much to ask, would you be willing to go over my CBPCcollisionconfig_female.txt to tell me what exactly to change in case i didn't do it correctly ?

I'll add it below.

 

Sorry for asking, but this problem is driving me absolutely nuts.

CBPCollisionConfig_Female.txt

[traison]

Config seems ok. However, I would recommend before you go changing configuration files, that you make sure you know exactly what is controlling the belly node. Ie. disable smp, test, disable cbpc, test, enable smp, test, enable cbpc. Once you know which system is controlling the node, that's when you start configuring it.

 

If cbpc is the only system controlling the belly node and it's still jittering all over the place then disable cbpc physics for the belly node as well.

1. Find the CBPCMasterConfig*.txt file that applies to your character.
2. Comment out NPC Belly and/or HDT Belly mapping.

If it's still not behaving then you're getting into the part why I said "there is no configuration that can handle everything". CBPC collisions are based on simple shapes such as cylinders and spheres. For the most part its spheres, or an array of spheres like a bead necklace. The benfit of this is easy to setup collisions, the downside is accuracy; or the space between the beads/spheres. For this you will just have to adjust the collision shapes, maybe add some new ones or different ones. NifSkope is useful for figuring out the offsets and sizes.

 

I don't know what the quality of collisions is over in the smp camp right now. I'm fairly certain with FSMP we got a lot of collision quality improvements, but this came after I had already switched to CBPC. I switched because smp back then had really unstable collisions especially if you wanted something even remotely realistic physics-wise. Neither were stable, and my guess right now would be that that is still the case. You may however want to evaluate this yourself before going all-in on cbpc. The potential in smp is still far greater than in cbpc, simply because of the collision shapes.

Edited March 12, 2023 by traison

[Beazzzz]

Hello again.

 

I was able to confirm that CBPC was in fact governing the collision physics on the belly, however when commenting out the suggestions you made, it either didn't solve the jittering, or shut the belly bulge down completely.

 

I have tried every possible combination that was within my limited knowledge of how these things work, but i have to admit, that i'm at the end of my wits after staring at these configs for so long and not getting any further. Whether that's with commenting things out and in, or adjusting the belly bulge values.

 

The complete shutdown of it at least made me think that the problem *is* in fact trying to run two collision (scripts ?) at the same time, however, i wasn't able to get it to work properly.

 

When it comes down to the collision shapes... I have no idea where i'd even start, and in my limited knowledge, that isn't the problem, it really seems to be an incorrect handling of the belly bulge.

 

Below i'll add my config files and as a final favor (even though i feel like i've asked a lot already) i would ask if you would please take a look over these configs, to see if maybe you're seeing any discepancies that could fix the issue, if not, i completely understand, but it would be appreciated very much.

 

I do want to add that this isn't out of being lazy or not being willing to fix it myself, i have just completely exhausted my limited knowledge and have tried every possible combination of numbers and edits that i could think of with your help.

 

Thanks again in advance, and my apologies for the hassle.

CBPCMasterConfig.txt CBPCMasterConfig_3BA.txt CBPCollisionConfig.txt CBPCollisionConfig_Female.txt

[traison]

While I don't recall doing this myself, commenting out the HDT/NPC Belly nodes and having that stop the fake belly bulge effect from working does not make sense to me. The node that handles the fake belly bulging is NPC Pelvis [Pelv] in versions <1.5.0 and NPC Spine1 [Spn1] in versions >=1.5.0.

 

There was an issue in CBPCMasterConfig_3BA where the thigh mappings probably didn't work. There's a bug in all current versions (that I know of) where mappings that are not part of a group and placed after a group get ignored. Meaning, I moved the grouped breast mappings last to avoid this bug. I also commented out (if they weren't already) both NPC Belly and HDT Belly mappings in both CBPCMasterConfig*.txt files to take physics out of the picture. If this indeed disables fake belly bulges as well I'd suggest you make sure your CBPC version is >=1.5.6. If the version is good then uncomment the NPC Belly line in CBPCMasterConfig_3BA.txt; as far as I know 3BA (nor 3BAv2) does not use HDT Belly.

 

There was a priority issue in CBPCollisionConfig_Female.txt where CBPCollisionConfig.txt would overwrite some of its values, mainly the belly bulge ones. I adjusted the priority such that CBPCollisionConfig_Female now takes priority for actors where its conditions match. I commented out (if it wasn't already) the belly collision shape to disable "real" collisions in favor of more stable fake collisions (through NPC Spine1 [Spn1]).

 

I also reduced the belly bulge multiplier to 1, set the max limit to 50 (I don't know what you mean by "deep"). PosLowest I set to 0 for no specific reason, just one less axis to worry about. ReturnTime has no effect except for in some very limited cases, it is ignored during collisions when it would be the most useful IMHO; this one is essentially broken/not used.

adjusted.7z

Edited March 13, 2023 by traison

[Beazzzz]

This seems to have fixed it ! Thank you so much for your trouble, effort, and information on the matter. Not only did it resolve my issues, but i also gained some knowledge in the process. Can finally put this headache to rest

[traison]

Just did some tests and it turns out you're correct:

1. If HDT Belly is commented out, fake belly bulges stop working.
2. If both NPC Belly and HDT Belly are mapped in CBPCMasterConfig, there may be an overlapping physics effect. I'd recommend only using the HDT one.
3. Even if 3BAv2 is painted for NPC Belly, having only HDT Belly mapped to a physics profile will still move those vertices. There's some internal routing going on in CBPC apparently. This means the only belly node that should be used is HDT Belly, regardless of which body you have and which of the 2 nodes it is weightpainted for.
4. If for some reason you need to use another node but don't want overlapping physics (potentially), mapping HDT Belly to a non-existant physics preset gets you the best of both worlds.

I've updated my documentation for future use.