Marriage/Polygamy Extended

[PeachyBeechMTi]

So consider this post kind of a mod request, but I want to hash out ideas first. I’m not a coder, but I do enjoy playing, and while I have been discussing this vaguely in a mod request group, due to the RJW type compatibility/nature I want I feel more comfort discussing it here. 
 

So some background so that the goals are understood.  I have long felt the marriage system in Rimworld really only works properly in two specific scenarios. It works fine if you want “free love” with everyone doing everyone, and it works sort of fine in strict monogamy. However there are lots of mostly ideological areas where neither of those scenarios works very well. 
 

For example, in Fundamentalist Mormonism, certain sects of Judaism, etc. even if I install the polygamy beds mod, in this example I can have a husband and two or more wives, I can’t assign them  to the same bed unless the physical love precept is set to free love. However ideologically for any of the above groups their polygamous lifestyle is far from free love. So in this case, I feel like spouse only needs to be patched to allow the assignment. In this case the husband can do lovin with any of his wives, but the wives will not do living with each other because they aren’t spouses to each other.  However if a few new options for “Spouse’s Spouse (mild,strict) and “Spouse’s Lover” would allow the pawns to freely interact in an orgy. I definitely want ideas and feedback on this point. 

 

Now point number two. In most polygamous cultures that don’t adopt a free love approach, each wife has a private bedroom, and it is usually the husband that sleeps wife a different wife at different times.   I feel like a good approach to this is a precept that defines how that dynamic works.  A good name for the precept could be “Intimacy Type” and by default it should be private couple. And it should require that each bed gets assigned a primary owner and a shared owner. So this shared owner can be assigned to another bed as a shared owner and still has to be the precept requirements, but I think this solution would work will with both vanilla and polygamy beds.  I think this needs to be clarified. I still want to be able to assign where the pawns sleep in their own beds, but this assignment would mean if if it’s not where they sleep, this is where they do it with their spouse or lover.  And I actually don’t want polygamy beds to be a requirement but I don’t want to break it either.  So say I have 2 wives and one husband. I want to be able to assign a single bed (not necessarily a double, though it could be) and I assign the beds owner, but then also assign a partner.  The partner doesn’t “sleep” there, but they will do lovin there.  I’m not sure if that’s doable. But the idea is each pawn can have their own room and if the precept is set to private intimacy, they will desire a room with only one bed in it.  Then if the precept is set to multiple partners they will desire either multiple beds in the same room, or a single bed that can accommodate all the members of that relationship.  Obviously the roles could be reversed so you could have a single wife with multiple husbands, or you could have multiple husbands with multiple wives. Again this only defines where they do it, what they do will be defined by the physical love precept.  This approach also allows a way to handle romance between colonists and slaves since they can’t be assigned to the same bed normally, but they could be assigned as a partner.
 

Next idea is concubines. In this definition a concubine will be a slave. The precept will be called concubines. It should have values for: abhorrent, disliked, neutral, preferred, required. Each level will affect the desires of the pawns, mood buffs, and their opinions of other pawns.  So starting with abhorrent, colonists will almost never attempt to romance a slave, with have a negative opinion of pawns and ideologies that support concubines, and will consider concubines to be cheating.  On the other end of the scale the desired value of required means that colonists will have a mild debuff if they don’t have a concubine, and they think positively of pawns that do, it becomes a social status thing.  Having concubines would not be considered cheating. Also on the romance attempt front. On the concubine negative or neutral romance attempts should be mostly vanilla, but for the positive ones, slaves don’t have the right to refuse and can’t initiate a breakup.  Colonists shouldn’t be allowed to take another colonists concubines. 
 

My next idea has to do with Rape as a precept. The precept should be “Is Rape Cheating?” and it should have values for “Rape is not cheating” (Pawns can rape and it never counts as cheating regardless of other precepts), “Rape is cheating”, “Getting Raped is cheating”, and “All rape is cheating”. 
 

Then I think a precept for marriage being desired.  This should tie into the types of physical love allowed since some values are incompatible with others. So a value for marriage abhorrent ties in with free love. Pawns don’t like marriage, and will tend to dislike pawns and ideologies that support marriage. They should get a mood buff for having one or more lovers. Marriage disliked is the same, just less severe.  Neutral is basically vanilla. Marriage monogamous desired means pawns don’t just want to be in relationships, they want to be married in a monogamous relationship. So having more might be allowed, but they will tend to be happiest with one partner, concubines won’t count though. Or marriage polygamous means they want to be in a relationship where there are more partners.  This should care how that works. So example, one husband with 4 wives, the husband should get a mood buff for having several wives, and the wives should get mood buffs because their spouses has multiple spouses. Concubines won’t count here. 
 

I’ll leave this here for suggestions and such. Much if this could be implemented into an existing mod, but because it’s mostly a marriage/polygamy precept overhaul I think it should be it’s own thing.  As I stated at the first this is kind of a mod request, and I am in support of financially helping it happen, but I think it needs to be discussed and fleshed out before going that direction. 
 

As far as compatibility, obviously it needs to be 1.4 compatible and it needs to play nice with RJW and the major supporting mods. It should be compatible with Polygamy Beds, and with Way Better Romance. And Ideology is a requirement obviously. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by PeachyBeechMTi
Compatibility

[PeachyBeechMTi]

Added ideas of note. Traits that go with this. So a pawn with a Polyandrous trait will desire to be in a relationship with multiple partners regardless of the precepts. So they will tend to be happier with an ideology that supports them.  Jealously obviously ties into this. A jealous pawn will still be jealous regardless of the ideology. This could revive the rapist trait slightly. A rapist won’t consider himself a cheater regardless of the precepts, and should get a mood buff that stacks.  I think bisexual pawns should get a mood buff for being in a relationship where they can interact with both genders.  I think a “cheater” trait means the pawn is attracted to other pawns who are not their own spouse and they get a mood buff for cheating, and are unhappy unless they have a side romance (concubines in this case do count). So in summary it could be something like “my love life is boring”-5 and then if they get a side romance they get something like “I cheated on my spouse” +10 and they get a positive opinion of both their spouse(s) and their side romance. Jealous pawns should get a negative opinion if cheaters. And if a pawn cheats they have a significant chance of acquiring the cheater trait.  Also what do you think of cheaters being attracted to other cheaters?

[DaishiAtlas]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2572109781&searchtext=Polygamy+

 

This might be useful to you.

[PeachyBeechMTi]

7 hours ago, DaishiAtlas said:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2572109781&searchtext=Polygamy+

 

This might be useful to you.

I’m familiar with it. It does very little of what I’m addressing and it doesn’t actually do what it claims very well, mostly because it conflicts with so many other mods.   It’s a substantial step in the right direction, but most of these polygamy options others have added clearly come from people who have never observed it. 
 

Last time I tried this mod it kept dissociating pawns from their beds. It does allow the separate rooms but it also seemed to clash with polygamy beds.  
 

What I’m looking for is not entirely about the behaviors either but the ideologies, so the memes and precepts that go with the package. 
 

So let’s detail out a real world example. In real life there are numerous Mormon Fundamentalist groups. The main LDS church disapproves of polygamy and opposes the practice. This means ideologically they will dislike and have a low opinion of polygamists. In the fundamentalist groups they obviously not only practice it, they believe it’s a requirement. This means men want to have more than one wife, and women in that faith are taught that marrying a worthy man who has multiple wives is honorable, and that she can’t achieve the highest degree of the faith unless she is married to a worthy man.  However the idea of a man having sex with more than one rice simultaneously or of the wives having any sexual relations with each other is strictly forbidden.  This doesn’t eliminate jealousy as a massive factor, but there is a degree of social status for women being married to men that are high in the social order.  So say a man has 7 wives, his social status will be higher than a man who only has 1 or 2 wives. His family is almost regarded as like royalty. 
 

So to recreate this in a Rimworld scenario I would need memes and precepts that support these concepts and provide mood buffs and debuffs and opinion tweaks based on those. 
 

Another example is Islam or at least some versions of it. In there case it’s not a requirement but a man having multiple wives elevates his social status.  Their culture isn’t going to like or dislike others based on that factor. Unlike the Mormon fundamentalist example above the husbands status might be elevated, but the wives status is not.  However a tweak to the romance system is that the romance success attempt would be driven by male supremacy in this case, if that precept is enabled. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by PeachyBeechMTi

[PeachyBeechMTi]

This is as a question, is there a mod that already exists that gives a good precept for premarital and extramarital sex?  Yes I’m aware of the integrated spouse only, but that only affects the individuals.  If in theory you had a precept about that and what constitutes that, I think it would fit in nicely with what I’m after. 
 

I am not aware of such a mod and if it does exist how does it tie in with RJW?

 

So example. Some cultures are going to consider that premarital sex doesn’t count, and there will be no negative opinions or debuffs in connection. This will obviously clash with virginity precepts, but that’s realistic and fair.  Other cultures will absolutely abhor premarital or extramarital sex and will consider those that have done it as practically whores.   But I think precepts about what counts should weigh in too. In many cultures kissing and making out is fine and doesn’t count. In others that does count. In some circles so long as virginity remains intact it doesn’t count, so oral and anal and bukakke are allowed.  Or condoms could make it not count. 
 

Also is there a mod that gives ideologies about whores?  I don’t imagine so, but I’d like to see that as an option. 
 

Effect wise, say I have a colonist “Sally” who sleeps around and her ideologies precepts don’t care about that. Her buffs won’t care. Now say in the same colony I have a Colonist named “Fred” and he has ultra conservative views. He will have a negative opinion of “Sally” because she’s a slut.  Because of the negative opinion it means he won’t see her as a romantic interest, and all the other things negative opinions bring.  There could also be the opposite opinion, say “Jerry” thinks “Sally” being a slut is really hot.  “Jerry” also dislikes “Fred” because he’s old fashioned. 
 

I wouldn’t mind extra penalties or rewards for direct adultery.  By that I think the cheating system that’s there now mostly works. But I think even pawns that weren’t directly involved can and should be able to have opinions based on precepts.   So “Fred” will have a negative option of “Dan” because “Dan” cheated on his wife even though “Fred” has no strong friendship or opinions of “Dan” or his wife. “Dan’s” wife could even be ok with it but “Fred” thinks it’s terrible. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by PeachyBeechMTi

[fhksdsdfm]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:00 PM, PeachyBeechMTi said:

My next idea has to do with Rape as a precept. The precept should be “Is Rape Cheating?” and it should have values for “Rape is not cheating” (Pawns can rape and it never counts as cheating regardless of other precepts), “Rape is cheating”, “Getting Raped is cheating”, and “All rape is cheating”. 

Speaking of rape, any rape memes should distinguish between colonists, prisoners, slaves, strangers, and enemies (and slaves of the latter two). In most real human cultures slaves have been "available" even when raping a citizen has been a crime, so most slave-having ideologies should probably do the same. Also, most societies - especially in the lawless conditions of the Rim - have treated their own differently than others. And finally, rape has been the reward of a conquering army just like plunder for most of human history. There's definetely roleplaying possibilities there.