Interest in A Dance With Rogues inspired game?

[DitsyDeviant]

Would anybody be interested in a game inspired by the Neverwinter Nights module, A Dance With Rogues?

 

I've been a fan of the mod since... Well, forever! And I'm also a software developer and hobbyist game developer, so I was wondering if there would be any interest in a game like this. It would be a huge undertaking so it's not something I'd do unless there's clear interest in it, otherwise it would be a waste of time. I want to create things that people enjoy, not just things that I alone enjoy.

 

What would such a game improve over the mod? What would be included? What would be excluded? Any other thoughts?

[lytel]

Just to clarify, you're not talking about making a new mod using nwn1/2 engine but a whole new game, right ?

[DitsyDeviant]

38 minutes ago, lytel said:

Just to clarify, you're not talking about making a new mod using nwn1/2 engine but a whole new game, right ?

 

Yes, this is what I mean. Creating a standalone game based on the mod.

[TrustyOldPatches]

I'm interested. I'm a huge fan, and some of my work is inspired by it.

 

Are you planning to do it with renpy?

 

 

[z3r0theshadowblade]

3 hours ago, TrustyOldPatches said:

I'm interested. I'm a huge fan, and some of my work is inspired by it.

 

Are you planning to do it with renpy?

 

 

i never played a dance with rouges but i have been hoping for a lewd dnd style game (think pathfinder, solsta, ect)
if your creating something from scratch may i suggest using ue4/5 i personally use ue4 and i can 100% recommend it as a engine

 

if i may suggest the same things for it i have in the pathfinder thread

• nsfw encounters
• nsfw Portraits
• nsfw traps (this makes me think of a hole in a wall that leads onto another room but the character can get stuck in the wall or a gas trap that makes the characters super horny)
• nsfw intractables
• some way to have nsfw combat (think defeat mod or even play a a sudo succubus ) (this is the one that makes me think of the bard seducing a dragon meme)

these would be some nice things to have in the game

[DitsyDeviant]

3 hours ago, TrustyOldPatches said:

I'm interested. I'm a huge fan, and some of my work is inspired by it.

 

Are you planning to do it with renpy?

 

 

 

No I'm going to use Unity for it. I have a lot of experience in Unity and in C#, and have more than enough Unity Assets to cover a lot of the core features (dialogue, quests, pathfinding, etc) in little to no time at all.

 

17 minutes ago, z3r0theshadowblade said:

i never played a dance with rouges but i have been hoping for a lewd dnd style game (think pathfinder, solsta, ect)
if your creating something from scratch may i suggest using ue4/5 i personally use ue4 and i can 100% recommend it as a engine

 

if i may suggest the same things for it i have in the pathfinder thread

• nsfw encounters
• nsfw Portraits
• nsfw traps (this makes me think of a hole in a wall that leads onto another room but the character can get stuck in the wall or a gas trap that makes the characters super horny)
• nsfw intractables
• some way to have nsfw combat (think defeat mod or even play a a sudo succubus ) (this is the one that makes me think of the bard seducing a dragon meme)

these would be some nice things to have in the game

 

I'm not a fan of UE, tried it in the past but I just don't like it. I prefer Unity, and I think it's the overall superior engine in a lot of categories. While I like all your suggestions, none of them fit the theme that ADWR was aiming for, unfortunately. It's a lot more "gritty" and "real", with a focus on storytelling, character development, etc. It felt very authentic. Combat was also nearly non-existent, save for a few places in the story, and a lot of it was avoidable. 

[Reila]

I would be interested, I think it would be a very big undertaking though. Though not impossible; Demonheart, another game series based on an NWN module has been converted both to a renpy VN and an isometric RPG.

Things I think ADWR did right and would like to see expanded upon:

• Stealth Gameplay:
  • Rewards stealth over combat, killing things grant very little exp, lockpicking, disarming traps and turning in quests grants a lot.
• Quest design:
  • Almost every quest has alternative solutions and approaches.
• Dialogue/writing:
  • Many options in every dialogue tree, having many link to the same outcome creates the illusion of more variety than there really is, enhancing immersion.
  • Good character design, every character feels believable with their own personality and agenda.
  • Good internal monologue.
• Use of 2D Assets:
  • 2D portraits rather than 3D models allows the player to input whatever portrait they feel portrays their character best
  • Everything in the game that is 2D has aged well (which is very very little)
  • Heavy reliance on 2D assets might not be an option for you if you don't have an artist aboard though.
• Setting:
  • The setting feels gritty and pretty believable most of the time.

Mistakes I think ADWR made that I would like to see improved:

• Build restrictions:
  • Multiclass builds are viable, but the skillcheck scaling makes it so that unless you take a level in lockpicking and disarm trap every level, you will be severely handicapped since it's the only way to really gain exp. This funnels you into a pure rogue build.
  • If the author wanted to make the player reliant on tools to breach locks, lockpicks are far too expensive and vendors are too scarce.
• Act 2 Pacing/unresolved plotlines: 
  • Too many twists and turns and alternating branches that aren't fully fleshed out. I would rather see a focus on one storyline with a few large branches with a lot of depth than lots of shallow branches.
  • I think this partly comes down to lack of planning, Act 2 feels like it was written as it went along, rather than planned out ahead in stark contrast to Act 1.
  • Nora (and to a lesser extent Bran) could have been easily removed from the story and nothing of value would be lost.
  • I get that Bran is supposed to be the "good" romance alternative after Anden disappears, but he has too little screentime for the player to get invested.
• Combat Gameplay:
  • Combat is a chore, especially in act 2. This is more of a problem with NWN than the mod itself.
  • The camera is a nightmare and all over the place. This is not restricted to combat but also cutscenes. This is also more of an issue with NWN itself.
• Reliance on ASOIAF names / lore:
  • A few references here and there would be fine, but it gets immersion breaking for people who are familiar with the series if taken too far.
• Use of 3D Graphics:
  • Everything in the game that is 3D has aged like milk. (Another issue related to NWN and not the mod.)
  • If NWN had been an isometric RPG it would have had more longevity.
  • 3D face models breaks immersion if they deviate from character portraits. ie. Anden and Vico both uses faces that are not in sync with their portraits.
• Introduction of animations/cutscenes:
  • Since the 3D graphics in the game are so poor, the introduction of 3D animations did very little to enhance the experience. 
  • It would have been better for everyone if sex scenes had remained a fade to black with sound + text only.
  • Some long cutscenes that can't be skipped is also similarly painful to sit through. (ie. Dance scene at Mayor's residence)
• Color/atmosphere inconsistency:
  • The vibrant colors and flashy effects of NWN clashes with the darker atmosphere of ADWR
  • The setting alternates between dark fantasy, low fantasy and high fantasy a lot.

 

That's everything I can think of off the top of my head, hope it helps.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Reila
Update

[DitsyDeviant]

18 minutes ago, Reila said:

I would be interested, I think it would be a very big undertaking though. Though not impossible; Demonheart, another game series based on an NWN module has been converted both to a renpy VN and an isometric RPG.

Things I think ADWR did right and would like to see expanded upon:

• Stealth Gameplay:
  • Rewards stealth over combat, killing things grant very little exp, lockpicking, disarming traps and turning in quests grants a lot.
• Quest design:
  • Almost every quest has alternative solutions and approaches.
• Dialogue/writing:
  • Many options in every dialogue tree, having many link to the same outcome creates the illusion of more variety than there really is, enhancing immersion.
  • Good character design, every character feels believable with their own personality and agenda.
  • Good internal monologue.
• Use of 2D Assets:
  • 2D portraits rather than 3D models allows the player to input whatever portrait they feel portrays their character best
  • Everything in the game that is 2D has aged well (which is very very little)
  • Heavy reliance on 2D assets might not be an option for you if you don't have an artist aboard though.
• Setting:
  • The setting feels gritty and pretty believable

Mistakes I think ADWR made that I would like to see improved:

• Build restrictions:
  • Multiclass builds are viable, but the skillcheck scaling makes it so that unless you take a level in lockpicking and disarm trap every level, you will be severely handicapped since it's the only way to really gain exp. This funnels you into a pure rogue build.
• Narratives in Act 2 getting out of hand: 
  • Too many twists and turns and alternating branches that aren't fully fleshed out. I would rather see a focus on one storyline with a few large branches that leads to a handful of endings than infinite branches that goes nowhere or are never resolved.
  • Nora (and to a lesser extent Bran) could have been easily removed from the story and nothing of value would be lost.
  • I get that Bran is supposed to be the "good" romance alternative after Anden disappears, but he has too little screentime for the player to get invested.
• Combat Gameplay:
  • Combat is a chore, especially in act 2. This is more of a problem with NWN than the mod itself.
  • The camera is a nightmare and all over the place. This is not restricted to combat but also cutscenes. This is also more of an issue with NWN itself.
• Reliance on ASOIAF names / lore:
  • A few references here and there would be fine, but it gets immersion breaking for people who are familiar with the series if taken too far.
• Use of 3D Graphics:
  • Everything in the game that is 3D has aged like milk. (Another issue related to NWN and not the mod.)
  • If NWN had been an isometric RPG it would have had more longevity.
  • 3D face models breaks immersion if they deviate from character portraits. ie. Anden and Vico both uses faces that are not in sync with their portraits.
• Color:
  • The vibrant colors and flashy effects of NWN clashes with the darker atmosphere of ADWR

That's everything I can think of off the top of my head, hope it helps.

 

Hey, thanks for your input! I appreciate it. Really helpful feedback  I disagree with some of the points but in general I do agree with most of them

[TrustyOldPatches]

Mmm. Not want to discourage you, but making it from scratch on Unity sounds like a really monumental task. It may take you years to complete a project like that by yourself. You sure that you have the motivation to do that? I said because as a game developer, I have dealed with overreaching, and I would hate for this project to start only to get abandoned. 

[menatv]

I would be interested as well.  But yeah, it does sound like a huge task. 

 

Still, I hope this becomes a reality one day.  Will be in for future updates on this potential project. 

 

[DitsyDeviant]

4 hours ago, TrustyOldPatches said:

Mmm. Not want to discourage you, but making it from scratch on Unity sounds like a really monumental task. It may take you years to complete a project like that by yourself. You sure that you have the motivation to do that? I said because as a game developer, I have dealed with overreaching, and I would hate for this project to start only to get abandoned. 

 

I get what you're saying, no worries! But I have like 10+ years experience in Unity and I work as a senior software engineer, so over the years I've built up a decent library of reusable code, as well as more than enough Unity assets to cover many of the core mechanics (dialogue, quests, pathfinding, UI, FSM, scripting, etc). So while I agree that it would take a long time to complete, especially by myself (which I hope would not be the case if I can find a way to contract additional help), I think it's doable. Especially for a project that I've been inspired by for so long.

 

26 minutes ago, menatv said:

I would be interested as well.  But yeah, it does sound like a huge task. 

 

Still, I hope this becomes a reality one day.  Will be in for future updates on this potential project. 

 

 

It is a huge task, you're right! But I'm confident it can be done

[moerbie123]

It had recently gotten its update for Enhanced Edition. I loved replaying it with a somewhat new feeling and alternative quests. A Dance with Rogues as well as Demonheart had something so charming about their dialogue ,the whole “being so desired” as the protagonist coupled with stealth gameplay.

It would be lovely to see a game that takes inspiration from ADWR. 

[simion512]

As a coincidence at this moment I am experimenting on my free time with Unity and creating a demo game , for fun, I don't intend to make profits or be my job.

I am a developer but not a game developer.  It could be cool if you would develop maybe the engine part as open source, people could help by adding features like quest management, dialog management, external tools , assets and only do for profit the story,maps part.  
What i am trying to do is something inspired by Sims where NPC are simulated based on their traits and relations with each other and not have all hard coded as quests.   But at this moment my focus is on learning the Unity tools and APIs and experimenting with UMA.