Tips for a knewb on creating Squall's Hair in 3DS Max

[Comrade Isbariya]

You're improving a lot!  

It looks pretty nice ingame. but with all the thinking, don't forget his scar, that one will make him look a lot more like Squall. THe face itself looks very good. I'd make the hair a little lighter, more like a copper-ish middle brown. 

 

I had to learn much more than I wanted lately, too. Like merging nif files, messing around with msn maps... And yeah, you can laugh at me if you want, but I edited them by hand, no 3D program involved. I didn't even know how to make them, I only knew that I needed one because the one I was using had ugly seams...

And what they are for? They 'underline' the shape of an object with the way they place lights and shadows on it obviously. How they work exactly or why the bright colors that really gave me headaches? I don't know. Looks like some sort of heightmap to me. But yeah I don't have to understand them, I'm glad that I could fix mine. 

 

I just started diving into all that stuff again, because I had to. I'm still trying to avoid 3D programs, but it looks like I can't avoid vector models and editing.  

 

And finally... I wouldn't know how to add something like a limit break into the game, other than making it a shout with custom animations / sounds whatever. You'd probably have to dig into scripting, too. 

[Bubbajones_ya]

Thank you! I didn't forget about the scar yet either! I haven't really messed with the face textures at all yet (besides downloaded younger face textures etc.). I tried looking a little bit into making .msn maps and it seems like it may be a little complicated... I downloaded a few programs like xNormal to help, but we'll see if I can get anything working well with that! If I can find a more anime/younger male like texture/head mesh (with much more fitting .msn maps), I may use that as a base instead and scrap my current head.

 

I used to edit normal maps by hand exclusively as well (not msn maps though!). In fact, I still kinda do. I just read last night about how to "bake" normal maps and such onto textures and it seems like a pretty cool concept. I still don't know exactly how to go about doing the actual cooking (baking) of the texture, but I know you make a 3d model, then add a temporary invisible plan in front of the model to reference the 3d shape. That makes way more sense on how those maps are created! I still think it's a little faster to do some editing of those by hand though for smaller/less detailed stuff. 3D programs are fun to use though so you shouldn't try too hard to avoid them! Once you finally get into them and start using them, you'll probably like it!

 

I think I'm going to try and get away with making the scar normal map by hand though, but I want to get the cheeklines/chin etc more correct first since I think that may be harder. I don't think I can change the face shape normal map by hand, there's too much smoothing and such with weird colors involved. Adding the texture of the scar itself on the head.dds shouldn't be hard at all.

 

For the limit breaks, I know it's going to be a pretty complex task, but I think it will be fun. I didn't think about custom shouts, that could work pretty well. I have to say, I'm not very familiar at all yet with Skyrim's papyrus scripting functions. I have managed to get some things working like swapping out items/armor with different version when certain conditions are met and also using the Slavetats system as well under different conditions. When I look at more complex mods though like the drink/eat/sleep/bathe mod, I get lost. The referencing between scripts confuses me, then the scripts don't compile either because I don't have everything that was used to make it. Morrowind was much more simple! Global variables were a breeze to make and have several scripts reference them at once.

 

Still, a scripted shout could work for the limit breaks, I just don't know if I'll be able to add NEW animations without the havok tools... From what I read and understand, I can EDIT existing animations (so I think I can completely change them hopefully length etc etc.), but if I try to make an entirely new one and ADD it to the game, I need the havok tools which are no longer available since Microsoft bought them out and are being little chupes about it.

 

I THINK I can at least start making the animations (once I get the face/hair/clothing) done for Squall. Then maybe transfer the animation to a different .kf file, as long as I use the proper skeleton. I could be wrong about that though.

[Bubbajones_ya]

So I managed to squeeze in some more progress today. I realize I'll have to go back and add some more sections of hair for the bangs and also to make the right side look more full (or the left side of the picture.)

 

I downloaded enhanced character edit because there was a young male nord race added that had MUCH nicer .msn maps and facial textures to use. I'm hoping it won't be that hard for me to take that race from the mod and put in in a single .esp so this mod won't depend on enhanced character edit when I'm done. I think I'm getting pretty close to getting a decent head mesh now because of this mod. I'll need to go and edit the face textures some more and edit the .msn map as well (I've been editing that by hand so far successfully despite it only being small changes so far.)

 

The model looks a bit different when in showracemenu and when in the actual game:

 

 

 

 

It makes it a little more difficult to edit but I'm getting there. I'm trying to use the face in game more as a reference than the face in the racemenu. I still need to make the chin a little smaller I think and some mother things as well. It's getting hard to tell which parts need more work but it doesn't look quite right yet. I'm trying to reference this image http://65.media.tumblr.com/dff58ae10ad669efdf854d118dfe0191/tumblr_ny2dqv3hMJ1rb9rueo1_500.png when doing the modifications. 

 

Any tips for what part of the face needs more work? I think getting the texture more uniform and younger looking will help, and I know the chin needs a little work as well. One thing I'm worried about is if I'm making the overall face too "small" for the head portion (as in how it may look with the neck/body overall). I think once I get this a little more dialed in, I'll start making my own armor piece to add in (again referencing that image) so it will look a little better.

 

 

One other question, is there any good animation mods to use that would be more final fantasy esq? I know of a bit for female characters, but haven't looked at too much for male characters. So far, the stance of this project Squall is way too neanderthal and makes the overall model look a lot less believable of his character. If I had a good idle animation in there (and one holding 1h/2s swords), I think it would help a lot in getting the model correct.

[Bubbajones_ya]

Okay so here's what I have so far before adding the scar texture/msn map (I kinda messed with the .msn map before but got rid of it.)

 

 

I added a little more to the hair and made a lot of small changes to the face. Getting the sides correct is pretty difficult because I don't have good reference pictures for that. The reference picture for the front is pretty good, but the reference pictures I find for the side have slightly difference shapes, making it difficult to merge them together. I think the body is distracting me now from getting the face more correct, so I'm going to see if I can use bodyslide to make a new body mesh, then alter the texture for that mesh. I'm afraid if I use 3DS max for the body, I'll mess something up with skeletons etc so I'm hoping bodyslide does the trick!

 

If I can get the body working, then I'm going to start on the clothing mesh. I may make the jacket/shirt and pants separate clothing items. That way it will be more compatible with mix/matching other clothes if there is any clothes like that available even for male characters. Plus, I got to have something to junction my GFs to you know? Just one outfit leaves out a lot of options for those junctions!

[Bubbajones_ya]

So besides pretty bad neck seams, I found a different body texture/msn map that makes everything look WAY better. I did a tiny bit of editing, but not too much. I can't seem to figure out a way to get rid of that neck seam easily so I'm going to forget about it for now:

 

 

 

I'm going to try and alter the body mesh now, then I'll start working on the actual armor itself. I found some other animations that seem to work a little better as well:

 

 

Once I get the jacket made, I think things will look a lot better. I give props to leonhartbenk, who made this current jacket, but unfortunately it's not to the standards I would like it to be (I'm not trying to sounds like an ungrateful piece, I just want this character to come out perfect even if it takes me a super long time.)

[Bubbajones_ya]

I lied about altering the body, I didn't do that yet. I messed around with the face a little tiny bit more and the textures as well. For now, I think I'm going to stop editing the face until I get the clothing/body done. Then I may go back.

 

 

I still am having some weird transparency issues with the hair as well. Some of the front pieces that are transparent make the transparency go through the under pieces, so you can see small strips of the head... Not all the pieces do this but there are quite a few areas that do. I'll think I'll mess around with the hair mesh a bit later though because it's in a decent enough shape for me to base other things off of. I hope I don't get these weird transparency issues with the jacket mesh on the feathery white part when I start to do that.

[Bubbajones_ya]

I think I'm going to start a new thread now since this has become more of a character build WIP rather than just the hair. I don't know how many people are interested, but for those who are I'll have the new thread up (and I'll put the link back in this thread in case people ever search and find this one.)

 

Edit: Here's the link to the character build thread http://www.loverslab.com/topic/66268-wip-squall-leonhart-final-fantasy-viii/