Devious Devices SE

[zarantha]

17 hours ago, Ralph.B said:

So each of the mod settings does basically the same, but the animations are different. Interesting - didn't know that DDI uses it's own animation. I thought, as ZAZ is a requirement for DDi it uses the ZAZ animations. Thanks for your reply - will try out both settings. But I think, I'll stay with those of DDi.

The zaz requirement has been removed from DD in 4.0. Unless you have mods requiring zaz, it's not needed.

 

DDi 4.0 changelog:

 

[zarantha]

7 hours ago, LipoCH said:

Hi Zarantha (again) !

 

Seems like I have too much free time now and I'm trying to solve my various SSE issues.

 

I have followed your advice above to make the ankle chain work as they should (your pics prove it). But even saving and reloading the game did not help, still in two seperate rigid parts.

 

Does it require something more, like a fix or patch ?

 

EDIT : I already have latest HDT-SMP from nexus installed (2.11) and also the collection of patches you linked some posts above.

 

If they're rigid, either something is wrong with either your HDT SMP install, or you've got something overwriting the chain nifs or xmls.

If HDT is working, the chains will move even when broken. They won't be one piece unless HDT is working and you restart the game.

 

If you have zaz, make sure DD is overwriting zaz.

The new patches should also be overwriting zaz.

 

Both DD and the patches ankle chain nifs point to this file in the path below. Without this file, physics won't work.

\Meshes\ZaZ-UltimateDataPack\ZaZ - HDT\ZaZAnkleChainsRagDolls.xml

 

Do you have that file? If not, reinstall DD and/or the patches.

 

Is HDT working for your body and/or other HDT SMP mods?

 

Edit: I'll make a note to fix where the DD nif is pointing to next time DD is updated. It's not as big a deal with the patches, because I do include the file in that path already.

[Guest]

On 7/30/2020 at 3:58 AM, zarantha said:

If they're rigid, either something is wrong with either your HDT SMP install, or you've got something overwriting the chain nifs or xmls.

If HDT is working, the chains will move even when broken. They won't be one piece unless HDT is working and you restart the game.

 

If you have zaz, make sure DD is overwriting zaz.

The new patches should also be overwriting zaz.

 

Both DD and the patches ankle chain nifs point to this file in the path below. Without this file, physics won't work.

\Meshes\ZaZ-UltimateDataPack\ZaZ - HDT\ZaZAnkleChainsRagDolls.xml

 

Do you have that file? If not, reinstall DD and/or the patches.

 

Is HDT working for your body and/or other HDT SMP mods?

 

Edit: I'll make a note to fix where the DD nif is pointing to next time DD is updated. It's not as big a deal with the patches, because I do include the file in that path already.

I think I made some progress. But first I checked your previous post and yes, DD is overwriting ZAZ, I have it reinstalled lately and many (all?) other features of HDT SMP work fine on my character and items.

 

I discovered this:

When using items named FETTERS, things work fine after reloading a save game.

When using the item named ANKLE CHAINS [EDITED], things do not work, the chain looks rigid in two separate parts.

 

Could it be that Ankle chains use another mesh or are loaded from another mod (DCL) ?

[Ralph.B]

13 hours ago, zarantha said:

The zaz requirement has been removed from DD in 4.0. Unless you have mods requiring zaz, it's not needed.

 

DDi 4.0 changelog:

 

I have the lates version of DDi installed, but have overseen this hint. But I still need ZAZ for some other mods. Must check, if they still work when disabling the bound animations in ZAZ. However, thanks for your hints. Made me a bit wiser now.

[crappypoo]

On 7/12/2019 at 2:43 PM, Pfiffy said:

Devious Devices All-In-One installer:

 

https://mega.nz/#!eZ4lGADR!8f9s3kM5pVNW8cdywYEPZutW0-_gdTsdfCGHgdyXYk0

dead link :c 
all i need is DDi that works with SE,  was hoping this FOMOD might fix that

[zarantha]

11 hours ago, crappypoo said:

dead link :c 
all i need is DDi that works with SE,  was hoping this FOMOD might fix that

don't use the links in the thread, download it from the download page linked in the first post. that is the most up to date version.

 

 

[zarantha]

21 hours ago, LipoCH said:

I think I made some progress. But first I checked your previous post and yes, DD is overwriting ZAZ, I have it reinstalled lately and many (all?) other features of HDT SMP work fine on my character and items.

 

I discovered this:

When using items named FETTERS, things work fine after reloading a save game.

When using the item named ANKLE CUFFS, things do not work, the chain looks rigid in two separate parts.

 

Could it be that Ankle cuffs use another mesh or are loaded from another mod (DCL) ?

 

I don't have anything named 'ankle cuff'.

 

I did find that ankle chains, obsidian ankle chains, and sasha's ankle chains were not working. And apparently I  had a copy / paste error at some point. The mesh has the PE xml info in it, not the SMP. But since fixing that part didn't resolve the issue with those, i'll look at it some more.

 

Edit - way too late at night. Just realized my test models weren't overwriting DCL.

Updated my patches, try this. It should overwrite zaz, dd, dcl.

https://mega.nz/file/NPgRECpK#3FyfCRIyGagWobZ_uznneC9ajmLtCwEKmp94fglXX5g

[Elsidia]

5 hours ago, zarantha said:

Updated my patches

Strange those chains work only if:

1) put on

2) Save

3) Exit to windows

4) Start skyrim se and load)

 

 

[YojimboRatchet]

6 hours ago, zarantha said:

I don't have anything named 'ankle cuff'.

might be referring to the Iron Shackles and Rusted Iron Shackles (the leg ones), as they are the only ones i can think of aside from the Silver Fetters

[Guest]

11 hours ago, zarantha said:

 

I don't have anything named 'ankle cuff'.

 

I did find that ankle chains, obsidian ankle chains, and sasha's ankle chains were not working. And apparently I  had a copy / paste error at some point. The mesh has the PE xml info in it, not the SMP. But since fixing that part didn't resolve the issue with those, i'll look at it some more.

 

Edit - way too late at night. Just realized my test models weren't overwriting DCL.

Updated my patches, try this. It should overwrite zaz, dd, dcl.

https://mega.nz/file/NPgRECpK#3FyfCRIyGagWobZ_uznneC9ajmLtCwEKmp94fglXX5g

Thanks a lot, this last version of the combined patches did work (after save/reload). I think it was indeed an item added by DCL. And sorry about my mistake, the item is indeed named ankle chains.

[N.Gamma]

I have the problem that some female NPC's walk around as if they had their hands tied behind their back or were carrying a yoke. I noticed this especially with NPC's that were added by a mod. Specifically with the mod Immersive Wenches. Whether it only occurs with NPC's from this mod I can't say now, because I haven't walked around much since I installed DD. Has anyone else had such problems and knows how to fix them?

 

[zarantha]

16 hours ago, Elsidia said:

Strange those chains work only if:

1) put on

2) Save

3) Exit to windows

4) Start skyrim se and load)

 

 

Strange yes. I have no explanation. Based on what I've learned about SMP, they shouldn't work at all - just like the wrist chains don't work.

I'm not going to think too deeply about it though.

 

 

10 hours ago, LipoCH said:

Thanks a lot, this last version of the combined patches did work (after save/reload). I think it was indeed an item added by DCL. And sorry about my mistake, the item is indeed named ankle chains.

Great, and yes, I'm pretty sure it's the just ones in DCL. That's where I saw the broken ones too, which means I messed up my conversion too. Too many file versions floating around >.<

Oh well. I"m not redoing it at this point. But now I know which files I want when DCL 9 comes out.

[Elsidia]

11 hours ago, AreaGamer said:

with the mod Immersive Wenches.

I can only guess:

1) Those NPC uses special animation to walk with cups what conflicts with DD and DD replaces this animation by own tied up animation.

2) Maybe those NPC spawn with invisible part of dd item on: in console check NPC inventory and see if there not some items from dd.

3) After install you forgot build FNIS - because walking animation with cups not installed and Skyrim uses random animation from DD.

 

[N.Gamma]

48 minutes ago, Elsidia said:

I can only guess:

1) Those NPC uses special animation to walk with cups what conflicts with DD and DD replaces this animation by own tied up animation.

2) Maybe those NPC spawn with invisible part of dd item on: in console check NPC inventory and see if there not some items from dd.

3) After install you forgot build FNIS - because walking animation with cups not installed and Skyrim uses random animation from DD.

 

First of all thank you very much for the answer.

To 1) I took a look into the files of Immersive Wenches and it looks like the mod doesn't contain any own animations.

To 2) No, they don't have invisible devices in their inventory.

To 3) I have run FNIS after installing DD and I don't know if I have any animations installed that include cup walking animations.

Before I installed DD, all female NPCs used the walking animations from FINIS sexy Move and the from Immersive Wenches too.

[Elsidia]

54 minutes ago, AreaGamer said:

Before I installed DD, all female NPCs used the walking animations from FINIS sexy Move and the from Immersive Wenches too.

I can't confirm this bug - i install Immersive Wenches then FINIS sexy Move

And no bug - after install FINIS sexy Move you rebuild FNIS? No errors?

Also you install SE version of those mods?

 

You can try uninstall and delete archive (Vortex) FINIS sexy Move - rebuild fnis - run the game and see NPC - have bug?

After if not - reinstall FINIS sexy Move - rebuild fnis - check bug.

 

Also i heard (5% chance if i remember right) - FNIS sexy move have conflict with dd - after this maybe dd struggle animations is damaged - i forgot to test it....

 

Edited: i found only that bug and invisible cups in arms:

Spoiler

 

[zarantha]

10 hours ago, AreaGamer said:

First of all thank you very much for the answer.

To 1) I took a look into the files of Immersive Wenches and it looks like the mod doesn't contain any own animations.

To 2) No, they don't have invisible devices in their inventory.

To 3) I have run FNIS after installing DD and I don't know if I have any animations installed that include cup walking animations.

Before I installed DD, all female NPCs used the walking animations from FINIS sexy Move and the from Immersive Wenches too.

If you're having trouble with DD walking animations and have FNIS Sexy Move installed, try resetting the animations in SM's mcm. I think others have resolved this by toggling the player 360 walk. The NPC should be fixed when you change locations.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/99700-devious-devices-se-43/?do=findComment&comment=3084335

 

I guess I need to add this to my troubleshooting list. >.<

[YojimboRatchet]

11 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The entire mechanic probably needs review, but that isn't practical until after the bigger DD problems are solved.

 

If people aren't following this:

• DF uses the DD library to fit items.
• That library has serious flaws, even if used carefully.
• The library bugs are impacting dozens of mods, not just DF.
• The DD library calls need to be replaced with custom code to work around the DD bugs.
• DD will not fix those bugs, or at least it seems quite unlikely at this time.
• I cannot fix the problem for every other mod, but I can at least reduce the problem for devices DF adds.
• I want to minimize new device functionality until this and the LDC are overhauled.

 

 

i was reading this from another thread going on, which seems to be escalating a bit, since i am reading more and more comments about DD library issues with other mods. i know i read a post from Kimy somewhere about how there is so much older code that needs to be seriously cleaned up, but for whatever reasons, it isn't a priority compared to new functionality on upcoming versions.

 

i am getting a big concerned by what i am reading, especially this one post, because maybe these older code issues need to be updated before any new functionality for future versions be implemented, because these would also have the same flaws and compatibility issues with other mods and create even more frustrations, would it not ?

 

this is what i am worried about the most, that last line about minimizing functionality with DD. if this starts to happen, and other mods / modders start doing the same things, then this will seriously impact DD as well as the gaming experience from the ones using these mods, which would not be the ideal result anyone wants, is it ?

 

i really like DD and many of the mods here, and i do not want to see this happen. i'd love for the modders to work together to bring the most enjoyable experience possible for the gamers, and not see comments like these becoming more frequent, causing strife in the community. kinda sucks.

 

so not sure what's going on, but maybe cleaning up the code might be the best option for now , maybe ?

 

 

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, YojimboRatchet said:

so not sure what's going on, but maybe cleaning up the code might be the best option for now , maybe ?

Kimy might change her specific position on that, but I am not the person to ask about it.

 

She said that fixing the existing functions would break old behaviors, which is true.

 

I suggested that the obvious answer was to add new functions and deprecate the old ones.

She didn't say anything about that point as far as I know. She might do it, or she might not.

 

My assumption is that she will not, and I'll go with that until she publishes new code where it's done - which might be indefinitely.

 

In the meantime it's perfectly possible to replace those functions in a consumer mod.

You can't get access to the mutex from outside, but that doesn't really work anyway so I don't see it as a big drawback.

I would have liked that to be C++ native, and if I do it, it will be.

 

One of the big "problem" functions is the C++ search function, which she is possibly loathe to touch, but I don't see any problems with writing a new one that has the required functionality, or simply not using C++ there.

 

If I do as I plan (and I have immediate things I want to do on DF first) then I hope that will make device adds more reliable for DF, but not for any other mods (though I don't care if they cut+paste my code). Of course, there may be other issues that mean it only makes a trivial difference. I guess we'll see.

 

 

Kimy has DCL to work on, and new DD features to add, and the world hasn't ended with this stuff as wonky as it is, so she may not see it as a priority, and I wouldn't have the slightest issue with that if there wasn't so much other baggage mixed up in this.

[Kimy]

9 hours ago, YojimboRatchet said:

i was reading this from another thread going on, which seems to be escalating a bit, since i am reading more and more comments about DD library issues with other mods. i know i read a post from Kimy somewhere about how there is so much older code that needs to be seriously cleaned up, but for whatever reasons, it isn't a priority compared to new functionality on upcoming versions.

 

i am getting a big concerned by what i am reading, especially this one post, because maybe these older code issues need to be updated before any new functionality for future versions be implemented, because these would also have the same flaws and compatibility issues with other mods and create even more frustrations, would it not ?

 

this is what i am worried about the most, that last line about minimizing functionality with DD. if this starts to happen, and other mods / modders start doing the same things, then this will seriously impact DD as well as the gaming experience from the ones using these mods, which would not be the ideal result anyone wants, is it ?

 

i really like DD and many of the mods here, and i do not want to see this happen. i'd love for the modders to work together to bring the most enjoyable experience possible for the gamers, and not see comments like these becoming more frequent, causing strife in the community. kinda sucks.

 

so not sure what's going on, but maybe cleaning up the code might be the best option for now , maybe ?

For the most part, the DD equip routines work just fine. However, in the existing API, there are parameters which should be avoided by DD content mod creators. Namely SkipEvents (which has the potential of causing serious breakage), and SkipMutex (which in my experience is unnecessary to ever use and will have severe impact on performance).

 

Now, i could of course remove these parameters from the API, but this would break each and every DD mod in existence, and some of them haven't been maintained for a while, so they'd be broken forever.

A partial solution would be to provide a replacement for these functions and leave the old ones in the API for backwards compatibility. This would of course not fix older mods using these parameters and it would not fix new ones unless modders become aware of these new functions and use them, which is essentially akin to just making them aware not to use these parameters.

The sledgehammer way to address it would be leaving the parameters in the API headers but make the code ignore them. But that's quite dirty and some modders might wonder why the API isn't behaving as expected, so I am shying away from that.

 

I do not know if there are issues beyond these parameters that would need looking at. As far as I remember, there haven't been any reports about it to me, and I rarely check LL threads outsides my own, so if there are discussions in some mod threads, chances are that I won't see them. I can not ask Lupine000 for clarification either, because he has put me on /ignore a while ago.

[YojimboRatchet]

8 minutes ago, Kimy said:

For the most part, the DD equip routines work just fine. However, in the existing API, there are parameters which should be avoided by DD content mod creators. Namely SkipEvents (which has the potential of causing serious breakage), and SkipMutex (which in my experience is unnecessary to ever use and will have severe impact on performance).

 

Now, i could of course remove these parameters from the API, but this would break each and every DD mod in existence, and some of them haven't been maintained for a while, so they'd be broken forever.

A partial solution would be to provide a replacement for these functions and leave the old ones in the API for backwards compatibility. This would of course not fix older mods using these parameters and it would not fix new ones unless modders become aware of these new functions and use them, which is essentially akin to just making them aware not to use these parameters.

The sledgehammer way to address it would be leaving the parameters in the API headers but make the code ignore them. But that's quite dirty and some modders might wonder why the API isn't behaving as expected, so I am shying away from that.

 

I do not know if there are issues beyond these parameters that would need looking at. As far as I remember, there haven't been any reports about it to me, and I rarely check LL threads outsides my own, so if there are discussions in some mod threads, chances are that I won't see them. I can not ask Lupine000 for clarification either, because he has put me on /ignore a while ago.

it's a shame. it's such a silly coding catch-22. the backward compatibility idea sounds somewhat sound, and i understand about the breaking aspect for other mods. there has to be a solution, because, as things grow older and more complex. at which point is all this code going to really compound on itself and create even more issue long term, right ?

 

maybe there is a way to bury whatever hatchet needs to be buried and work together to try and fix this in someway ?

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Kimy might change her specific position on that, but I am not the person to ask about it.

 

She said that fixing the existing functions would break old behaviors, which is true.

 

I suggested that the obvious answer was to add new functions and deprecate the old ones.

She didn't say anything about that point as far as I know. She might do it, or she might not.

 

My assumption is that she will not, and I'll go with that until she publishes new code where it's done - which might be indefinitely.

 

In the meantime it's perfectly possible to replace those functions in a consumer mod.

You can't get access to the mutex from outside, but that doesn't really work anyway so I don't see it as a big drawback.

I would have liked that to be C++ native, and if I do it, it will be.

 

One of the big "problem" functions is the C++ search function, which she is possibly loathe to touch, but I don't see any problems with writing a new one that has the required functionality, or simply not using C++ there.

 

If I do as I plan (and I have immediate things I want to do on DF first) then I hope that will make device adds more reliable for DF, but not for any other mods (though I don't care if they cut+paste my code). Of course, there may be other issues that mean it only makes a trivial difference. I guess we'll see.

 

 

Kimy has DCL to work on, and new DD features to add, and the world hasn't ended with this stuff as wonky as it is, so she may not see it as a priority, and I wouldn't have the slightest issue with that if there wasn't so much other baggage mixed up in this.

 

[Lupine00]

50 minutes ago, YojimboRatchet said:

maybe there is a way to bury whatever hatchet needs to be buried and work together to try and fix this in someway ?

? ? ?

 

But seriously. Kimy knows that she could create new functions and deprecate the old ones, breaking zero old functionality.

It probably wouldn't satisfy everyone though, so I can see why she might not be eager to rush into it.

 

It's up to her to decide her priorities and I am certainly not entitled to comment on those.

 

For all I know, she's making some completely new DD-like mod for SE, or is busy with DCL, or Contraptions, or adding sex-animations for pet-suits, or who knows what?

 

For my own part, I've got plenty of Skyrim problems, and DD is just one.

[clup213]

it wont let me download this mod i click the link to download it and then it will get about 90% threw downloading then it will just close out the window 

has anyone had this problem

 

[zarantha]

1 hour ago, clup213 said:

it wont let me download this mod i click the link to download it and then it will get about 90% threw downloading then it will just close out the window 

has anyone had this problem

 

Nope, it's still working fine for me. Do your browser or internet troubleshooting.

Clear cache, try another browser, disable all addons for your browser, etc.

[clup213]

28 minutes ago, zarantha said:

Nope, it's still working fine for me. Do your browser or internet troubleshooting.

Clear cache, try another browser, disable all addons for your browser, etc.

none of that worked 

 

[zarantha]

18 minutes ago, clup213 said:

none of that worked 

 

All I can say is the download from the download page linked in the first post works. So it's something on your end.