[AAF] Sex Attributes - Framework (4/17/2023)

[Alfredo47]

11 hours ago, Martin56 said:

Hi How this is different from magno cum gaudio? Why did you made a second wear and tear system instead of using the one from magno cum gaudio and adding to it? thank you

What's the problem? You can use them both, just disable magno wear system in MCM

[twistedtrebla]

12 hours ago, Martin56 said:

Hi How this is different from magno cum gaudio? Why did you made a second wear and tear system instead of using the one from magno cum gaudio and adding to it? thank you

Magno Cum Gaudio and FP Attributes are two different types of mods. MCG is a big, feature packed mod while FPA is a light framework intended to be used by other mods. One of the problem with big mods with a lot of features is it's hard to be used as a framework for other mods because it also comes with a lot of requirements and conflicts. It becomes a burden for other mods to use it as a framework because it then increases their mod's dependencies and conflicts with other mods. That's why I intended FPA to be as focused and light in requirements as possible, so that other mods can then use this as a framework without worrying about introducing more dependencies or conflicts. 

 

This mod is intended to be a wear (both physical and mental) for player from sexual assaults, so it made sense to include the wear and tear feature, with my personal twist and take on it. Also, it goes much deeper into mental side of sexual assaults. Sexual assaults are much more mentally and emotionally damaging to a person than physically. That aspect wasn't really explored in the world of Fallout 4 modding, so this mod aims to bring that reality to Fallout. The mental wear from sexual assaults is heavily explored in this mod.

 

MCG allows you to disable physical wear and tear effects, and so does FPA. So you can run both mods along side each other and choose which wear and tear implementation you want to use.

[wdaigle]

Two things.

 

1.  During sex I was getting aggressive animation and so was trying to toggle it. This broke the toggle, not in the save, but in the mod itself.  Reinstalling the mod was required to get the toggle back.

 

2. I think I finally understand what the concept of this mod's "sex type" switch is and how to get it to work with other mods.  It's not explicitly said so it took me a little bit to get a handle on it.  I expected the sex type toggle to alter the animation but it doesn't.  The toggle only affects the attributes and the attributes are only affected by the toggle.  So, if I want this mod to have friendly sex be considered consensual and RSE CSA be considered aggressive (and lower self-esteem), I need to set the toggle to consensual and the aggressive health threshold to be the same as that in RSE.  To make abduction aggressive, I'll toggle it manually.  To make SEU consensual, just do it above the RSE health level.  Etc.  This is what I've discovered empirically.  Am I correct?

[twistedtrebla]

3 hours ago, wdaigle said:

Two things.

 

1.  During sex I was getting aggressive animation and so was trying to toggle it. This broke the toggle, not in the save, but in the mod itself.  Reinstalling the mod was required to get the toggle back.

 

2. I think I finally understand what the concept of this mod's "sex type" switch is and how to get it to work with other mods.  It's not explicitly said so it took me a little bit to get a handle on it.  I expected the sex type toggle to alter the animation but it doesn't.  The toggle only affects the attributes and the attributes are only affected by the toggle.  So, if I want this mod to have friendly sex be considered consensual and RSE CSA be considered aggressive (and lower self-esteem), I need to set the toggle to consensual and the aggressive health threshold to be the same as that in RSE.  To make abduction aggressive, I'll toggle it manually.  To make SEU consensual, just do it above the RSE health level.  Etc.  This is what I've discovered empirically.  Am I correct?

I found and fixed a bug that was making the MCM hotkey for switching sex types unreliable. So it's a known issue that will be addressed next patch. 

 

As for 2, yea the sex type is strictly so that this mod knows when to consider a sex as rape (and affect attribute points) and when to consider it as a consensual act (and leave attribute points alone). It doesn't affect what animation gets played. That's strictly controlled by the mod that triggered the four-play sex animations. What you deducted and described is correct. I'll add more description to the MCM menu to be more clear what the toggle does.

[twistedtrebla]

On 3/17/2018 at 2:41 PM, dev1antM1nd said:

Great job in coming up with an update addressing the Dom/Sub and SPECIAL binding issue so fast. I know it's hard to come up with a design while Submissive is an attribute that is overall detrimental to a character's SPECIAL attribute but I think the new changes you made does pull it off. A sub may most likely be sexually assaulted more frequently which leads to losing the self-esteem which leads to slower AP regeneration that affects her/his combat capability. But constantly wining fights can increase self-esteem and offset that. I think this would work. 

 

One thing that stands out to me is that multiple stats all add the same impact to the SPECIAL/character ability:

. self-esteem affects charisma which affects persuasion and bartering

. will power affects persuasion

. spirit affects barter skill and persuasion

. Dom/Sun affects bartering and persuasion

 

I don't know the business logic in your script but the above is based on your latest feature description. All 4 attributes add effect to the same area seem a bit too excessive.

Given that you already designed the 3 main attributes self-esteem, will power, and spirit always affect each other, maybe all you need to do is to leave only one of the 3 attributes that can affect the bartering and persuasion. After all, the other 2 will spill over to the one and still contribute their influence to the effect of bartering and persuasion. And with your 3 main attributes already jointly affect the bartering and persuasion, the Dom/Sub attribute affecting the same thing seems redundant.

 

Maybe some new effect can be introduced to the Dom/Sub attribute so this new system could be more versatile. One thing the system hasn't seemed to explore much is the erotic psychological effect brought from Dom/Sub.  A Dom usually draws great pleasure from dominating while a sub experiences euphoria when submitting. Maybe you could design some rule so that a Dom sexually assaults others will create huge buff to her/his capability temporarily while the sub will also get some kind of buff while being taken against their will or just submit. 

 

As usual, thanks for creating this framework and it will be great to see Mods begin to use it.

 

Thanks! Your feedback is appreciated.

 

I did think about persuasion and barter being affected by 3 attributes - self-esteem, spirit, and D/s (willpower doesnt affect it). It also seemed redundant to me at first. But upon second thought, I realized speech skill in real life is a rather complicated skill that is affected by many things as well. It makes sense that self-esteem affects it. It also makes sense that spirit (which represents how broken/secure the player is) affects it. How submissive/dominant the player is affecting it also made sense. There are many more things that also affects a person's speaking ability that isnt tracked by this mod. So I just let it be for the sake of realism, and lowered the effects so that it doesnt get too out of control having 3 stacking debuffs or buffs. But I am open to new ideas thats realistic and also improves diversity and gameplay.

 

Im not too sure about the idea of D/s erotic addiction. I think that kind of ventures into the realm of arousal, which I currently think is out of scope of this mod. For now, I think it's OK to have 3 attributes contribute to the player's speech skill (persuasion and barter). But I'll probably think about ways to expand it so that they do more than affect speech in their unique ways.

[twistedtrebla]

v0.2.3 is out now. Clean save shouldn't be required (going from 0.2.2)

 

Fixed MCM hotkey being broken.

Spirit is now 2x harder to move. That means it is accrued and decreased 2x slower. This makes spirit much more of a permanent, long-term state of your character.

Also made some minor changes to some default.

 

 

[leopardus]

twistedtrebla i have one question for you.. why?  You have done good mode (stripper) . Please, continue your work on this directional!

 

sorry, my english is veeery bad.

[pihwht]

2 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

v0.2.3 is out now. Clean save shouldn't be required (going from 0.2.2)

 

Fixed MCM hotkey being broken.

Spirit is now 2x harder to move. That means it is accrued and decreased 2x slower. This makes spirit much more of a permanent, long-term state of your character.

Also made some minor changes to some default.

 

 

The more I use it, the more I like it.

[twistedtrebla]

I am currently brainstorming a new mod idea that would use this as a framework. It's a mod where friendly NPCs would approach the player for sex if the player is naked. The dialogue choices and NPC's response will vary depending on the player's attribute at the time. I might call it Four-Play Sexual Harassment, or something. It's more intended to showcase and demo how this framework can be used, and as such will be open source and anyone can take the code and use it in their mod. But I don't know how much time something like that will take, so I may end up not doing it. I've never tried mods with any dialogue, so theres going to be a bit of a learning curve there.

 

Anyway, here's what I'm currently thinking:

Player is naked, and an NPC is around. NPC approaches player for sex. Player has four dialogue choices:

1. (Plead) - This will be a standard game's built-in speech check, a very hard one. If player successfully convinces the NPC to leave her alone, NPC will agree and walk away. If player fails, NPC rapes the player.

2. (Intimidate) - This will be mainly for dominant (and neutral) players. The success chance will be based on how dominant the player is. If successful, NPC will get scared and walk away. If unsuccessful, NPC will keep trying, and player can then attempt to resist. Regardless of whether or not intimidate is successful, selecting this will slightly increase the player's dominant orientation. Submissive players will not have an option to this, (or it will, but will always result in failure).

3. (Submit) - Surrender to NPC's demands and let him have your player. Submissive players will not consider this as a rape since it's a willful submission, and so it will not lower the player's self-esteem or willpower. Neutral or dominant players will consider this a rape - because they're just not wired that way - which will result in self-esteem and willpower loses. Regardless of the outcome, selecting this will slightly increase the player's submissive orientation.

4. (Resist) - This is where it gets fun. Selecting this option will cost some willpower, and the cost depends on how submissive/dominant the player is. Costs more if player is submissive and costs less if player is dominant. The player will try to resist the NPC's advances. The NPC will then try to persuade the player (ever think it would be cool if the game had a mechanic where NPCs could persuade the player?). NPC's persuasion success chance is based on the player's spirit. If the player's spirit is low, NPC will have an easier time convincing the player that this is what she really wants, and proceed to rape. If the player's spirit is high, NPC will have a harder time convincing the player because the player isnt so easily suggestible. If NPC's persuasion fails, it will come down a showdown between two willpowers. All approaching NPC's will get a random willpower score, ranging from 0-100. Depending on the player's willpower vs NPC's willpower, the player will be able to resist the NPC and cause the NPC to walk away because it's not worth the trouble, or the player will give up and let NPC have his way.

[pihwht]

Sounds neat. I'll look forward to this. Thinking how nicely this could work with combat strip.

[SirCrazy]

I like that this mod has more depth than the simple arousal mod used is Skyrim. This mod adds long term consequences to the player's actions rather than the normal short term hassles other mods offer.

 

I really like your new mod suggestion and I hope you build it so that it can work with Devious Devices. A restrained player would have less options or lower chances to resist.  This would give restrained players a reason to avoid running back to the safety of a city or large settlement. Becoming the public play toy for a large group of people could really damage the mental health of the player and have longer term consequences. Your suggested mod would have very interesting game play implications.

[Sagebrush61]

Having an NPC be able to "Persuade" the player to do something could be interesting.  Seems fair, since player is always getting the opportunity to persuade NPC's to do something they don't really want to do.  Could be a bit of a balancing act, since some players have a tendecy to get upset when they lose player agency and the game starts making decisions for them.

[Tanglin]

The proposed nudity approach will be very interesting indeed! I haven't tried your mod yet as I find the downsides to being a submissive too severe. However, if the mod allows users to turn on the nudity dialogues but turn off the attribute changes, that'll be perfect for me. 

[pihwht]

9 hours ago, Tanglin said:

The proposed nudity approach will be very interesting indeed! I haven't tried your mod yet as I find the downsides to being a submissive too severe. However, if the mod allows users to turn on the nudity dialogues but turn off the attribute changes, that'll be perfect for me. 

That's what I thought as well, but in game things seem very well balanced. I'm liking the mod more and more.

 

20 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

I am currently brainstorming a new mod idea that would use this as a framework. It's a mod where friendly NPCs would approach the player for sex if the player is naked. The dialogue choices and NPC's response will vary depending on the player's attribute at the time. I might call it Four-Play Sexual Harassment, or something. It's more intended to showcase and demo how this framework can be used, and as such will be open source and anyone can take the code and use it in their mod. But I don't know how much time something like that will take, so I may end up not doing it. I've never tried mods with any dialogue, so theres going to be a bit of a learning curve there.

 

 

Those npcs wouldn't even need to wait for nudity, but might demand caps, or nudity, or something else that might entertain them secretly prompted by the player's attributes.

[twistedtrebla]

I am finishing up my new mod that will be using this as a framework. It's called Four-Play Sexual Harassment. It's a very small mod that makes NPCs approach player for sex when player is naked (nice integration with Combat Strip Lite!). 

 

Depending on the player's attributes (psychological), the dialogue options change, and NPCs can even persuade the player!

 

I'm trying to fix 2 critical bugs that's killing me. One is, no matter what setting I set in the reference alias for the player's harasser, the mod sometimes chooses a child (Pete in Diamond City, damn you!) to be the player's harasser. This is very annoying and any tips on how to prevent this would be very appreciated. Another one is NPC dialogues being way too long. I haven't figured out a way to make the dialogue cutscenes shorter. Not a game breaker, but gets pretty boring fast having so much time that you could read NPC's response 4 times over. Everything else, such as dynamic dialogue tree, attribute changes, sex, and integration with FP:Attributes is complete. Hopefully these 2 issues get resolved by end of day today.

[pihwht]

The solutions are sitting here somewhere close. Four-play excludes children, and I think I remember someone saying that you could shorten the display time by attaching an empty sound file. At any rate, there are a number of unvoiced mods to look at.

 

Sounds very promising. I'll be watching for it.

 

One tiny thing about the hud for attributes: it won't completely disappear. Even set to zero, or -1, there are little dots left on my otherwise empty screen.

 

I've only tried it so far with a character who was at level 18. She was raped once. at the very beginning of her time with the mod.  At level 30, she is still submissive, but has recovered her will-power and self-esteem.

[twistedtrebla]

v1.0.0 released!

 

Clean save shouldn't be required. But if you see crazy stuff happening, maybe I was wrong?

 

I'm also removing BETA mark and moving to 1.0.0 as I believe it is stable enough. If you encounter any bugs or errors, please let me know.

On its own, this release doesn't do much, but adds more APIs that are needed for other mods to integrate better with the player's attributes.

 

Also, if you are not clean saving, make sure to go to the new MCM page called "NPC interactions", and set your desired values.

[twistedtrebla]

Finally figured out the stupid children problem.

 

I haven't fixed the long dialogue yet, but it wasn't a deal breaker. I think it's good enough for a first alpha release.

 

So here it is! Four-Play Sexual Harassment

 

Note that you'll need the new FP Attributes v1.0.0 for it

[pihwht]

3 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

Finally figured out the stupid children problem.

 

I haven't fixed the long dialogue yet, but it wasn't a deal breaker. I think it's good enough for a first alpha release.

 

So here it is! Four-Play Sexual Harassment

 

Note that you'll need the new FP Attributes v1.0.0 for it

I'll go try it as soon as I get it installed. I'll try is with an existing character, and the I'll start a neutral new character who will grow up under this regime.

 

I tried it in Diamond City and it worked perfectly. I will certainly avoid people more carefully after being beaten up by ghouls.

[twistedtrebla]

On 3/19/2018 at 4:16 PM, SirCrazy said:

I like that this mod has more depth than the simple arousal mod used is Skyrim. This mod adds long term consequences to the player's actions rather than the normal short term hassles other mods offer.

 

Yup, that's exactly what I was aiming for with this mod! A long term consequence for player's actions. Wear and tear (physical) is nice, but it goes away (as it should) after few days. I wanted a mod that realistically captures more permanent effects on player.

 

17 hours ago, pihwht said:

One tiny thing about the hud for attributes: it won't completely disappear. Even set to zero, or -1, there are little dots left on my otherwise empty screen.

 

I've only tried it so far with a character who was at level 18. She was raped once. at the very beginning of her time with the mod.  At level 30, she is still submissive, but has recovered her will-power and self-esteem.

Thanks for reporting that. If I have time, I may add a way to completely remove that.

 

That's awesome that your character turned it around  I had a very bad dungeon run the other day. My character must've gotten raped 20+ times that day alone. She's now completely broken with no willpower or self-esteem. She's trying to redeem herself back to a healthy state, but it's very difficult since shes already so broken to the core! She might even be a lost cause at this point

 

I might add a psychiatrist in Memory Den (in Goodneighbor) who charges money to undo bad memories to revert the character's psychological attributes back to normal. For immersion's sake, and for poor characters who just want to start over, but have already fallen away so far.

[KitKatKseniya]

2 minutes ago, twistedtrebla said:

I might add a psychiatrist in Memory Den (in Goodneighbor) who charges money to undo bad memories to revert the character's psychological attributes back to normal. For immersion's sake, and for poor characters who just want to start over, but have already fallen away so far.

Great idea

[twistedtrebla]

19 minutes ago, KitKatKseniya said:

Great idea

I have no idea how to add NPCs though, or give them their own model. Maybe I can just duplicate existing actor models. Perhaps Dr Amari twin? Dr Irama?  

 

If all fails, I may just opt for an e-psychiatrist  Just an MCM menu that charges players money (or not) to revert stats back to normal. Pretty lame, I know.

[pihwht]

48 minutes ago, twistedtrebla said:

Yup, that's exactly what I was aiming for with this mod! A long term consequence for player's actions. Wear and tear (physical) is nice, but it goes away (as it should) after few days. I wanted a mod that realistically captures more permanent effects on player.

 

Thanks for reporting that. If I have time, I may add a way to completely remove that.

 

That's awesome that your character turned it around  I had a very bad dungeon run the other day. My character must've gotten raped 20+ times that day alone. She's now completely broken with no willpower or self-esteem. She's trying to redeem herself back to a healthy state, but it's very difficult since shes already so broken to the core! She might even be a lost cause at this point

 

She runs away a lot and waits till she is hidden before venturing forth to see what is going on.

[MainMansrevenge]

forgive me if I missed this, But I have Vinfamy's other mods like Violate and Vanilla fudge installed. Any idea if your mods can co exist with those?

[twistedtrebla]

28 minutes ago, MainMansrevenge said:

forgive me if I missed this, But I have Vinfamy's other mods like Violate and Vanilla fudge installed. Any idea if your mods can co exist with those?

I dont see why not. You'd just need to make sure to set sex type as "aggressive" when you're getting raped by your enemy, and set sex type as "consensual" when using vanilla fudge, so that this mod knows when to subtract self-esteem and when not to.

 

With Vinfamy's permission, I can create a patch so that sex triggered by those mods tell FP:Attributes what type of sex it is (which is what FP Sexual Harassment does currently), so that you the user don't have to manually tell it each time.