state of HDT now

[Whizkid]

my 2 cents being superior or better means nothing in the real world, HDT-PE is easy to install and maintain, whilst SMP is not as a result SMP will always belong to the most dedicated gamer who literally spends hours of time tinkering and fixing it, which unfortunately is not a luxury the average gamer has and would prefer to spend their precious time playing the game....

 

in other words Ease Of Use!!, has and will always take precedence over anything overly complicated and time consuming period!!

[zarzil]

1 hour ago, Whizkid said:

my 2 cents being superior or better means nothing in the real world, HDT-PE is easy to install and maintain, whilst SMP is not as a result SMP will always belong to the most dedicated gamer who literally spends hours of time tinkering and fixing it, which unfortunately is not a luxury the average gamer has and would prefer to spend their precious time playing the game....

 

in other words Ease Of Use!!, has and will always take precedence over anything overly complicated and time consuming period!!

This has nothing to do with any inherent flaw in the complexity of SMP.  It is without a doubt simpler to make things for, and generally learn.  You're not wrong, but what you're seeing is a purely social phenomena. 

 

I already made a ready-to-play SMP kit and the support thread is a ghost town relative to the number of downloads, because I did all the tinkering necessary beforehand, although I expect that'll change when I make its features a bit less niche.  (It's currently futa/lesbian specific.) 

 

The only hurdle I can think of that SMP has that PE doesn't is a working OpenCL install.

[Whizkid]

1 hour ago, zarzil said:

This has nothing to do with any inherent flaw in the complexity of SMP.  It is without a doubt simpler to make things for, and generally learn.  You're not wrong, but what you're seeing is a purely social phenomena. 

 

I already made a ready-to-play SMP kit and the support thread is a ghost town relative to the number of downloads, because I did all the tinkering necessary beforehand, although I expect that'll change when I make its features a bit less niche.  (It's currently futa/lesbian specific.) 

 

The only hurdle I can think of that SMP has that PE doesn't is a working OpenCL install.

yea sadly it's the lack of support, having said that i did test smp, but oldrim itself is flawed having the best i.e. smp, means nothing when PE does the same and it's hardly noticeable in the greater scheme of things, perhaps skyrim SE would be a better platform as it's more stable.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Whizkid said:

my 2 cents being superior or better means nothing in the real world, HDT-PE is easy to install and maintain, whilst SMP is not as a result SMP will always belong to the most dedicated gamer who literally spends hours of time tinkering and fixing it, which unfortunately is not a luxury the average gamer has and would prefer to spend their precious time playing the game....

 

in other words Ease Of Use!!, has and will always take precedence over anything overly complicated and time consuming period!!

In fact its only Drop in Files and add a line in a xml file. Not that Hard.

To start with the many many bugs that pe has.

The workflow of rigging meshes is basicly the same. The xmls are much more simplified, the results are much more satisfying.

 

And if you mean easy, you mean install a pack in nexus mod manager and shit werkz or are you able to do your own setup with pe? Beginning with rigging/weightpaint and ending with xml tweaking?

 

It's not a discussion point that hdt pe did his job good, but the time is merely over and smp succeeds on all points.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Whizkid said:

yea sadly it's the lack of support, having said that i did test smp, but oldrim itself is flawed having the best i.e. smp, means nothing when PE does the same and it's hardly noticeable in the greater scheme of things, perhaps skyrim SE would be a better platform as it's more stable.

There is much more support since I released my aio and many experienced people like sassaaria, 27X, zarzil, darkevillum and ledo4ek joined the discussion and support as good as they can.

If you don't experience differences between pe and smp, maybe your visual attention is not, let's say, that good.

You miss spazzing meshes, invisible npcs, stretching capes and xmls with 214855632145 lines of code? Too bad..

[Whizkid]

1 hour ago, prZ said:

There is much more support since I released my aio and many experienced people like sassaaria, 27X, zarzil, darkevillum and ledo4ek joined the discussion and support as good as they can.

If you don't experience differences between pe and smp, maybe your visual attention is not, let's say, that good.

You miss spazzing meshes, invisible npcs, stretching capes and xmls with 214855632145 lines of code? Too bad..

idk for hdt it's just plug and play, if needed it's easy to amend or fix, but for smp besides the AIO created by you, i couldn't find any plug and play for armor/clothes/devious devices/dicks/az ponytail hair etc.., all i know is that i have to dirty my hands and create xmls files which to a layman is just too much work:(

 

my fix for pe problems is to get SSD drive and a gtx 980 ti card and poof everything works as intended lmao and after that win10 patch oldrim is very playable for me.

[Xaqq]

On 2/8/2018 at 12:38 AM, Whizkid said:

idk for hdt it's just plug and play, if needed it's easy to amend or fix, but for smp besides the AIO created by you, i couldn't find any plug and play for armor/clothes/devious devices/dicks/az ponytail hair etc.., all i know is that i have to dirty my hands and create xmls files which to a layman is just too much work:(

 

my fix for pe problems is to get SSD drive and a gtx 980 ti card and poof everything works as intended lmao and after that win10 patch oldrim is very playable for me.

even with a 1080ti and the latest gen core i7 processor it took me ages to set the shit up properly with a good 55+ framerate. I still get framerate drops but it wasnt as bad as before. All-in-All SMP is better but its just terribly annoying to set up. HDT will always be easier to set up hence the reason why it'll always be the mainstream. SMP will never reach the mainstream unfortunately, that is until you start seeing SMP conversions on skyrim nexus, it will never reach mainstream.

[Guest]

i dont know if anybody noticed that last hdt pe update was in 2015 and there is only smp for sse?

[gtcard]

i think the smp i'm using is from the chinese forums, which seems to allow pe and smp to work together. as far as actual differences, i don't know the technical details. it may be unsafe and backdooring my computer all this time for all i know. but it does let smp and pe work together. my physics instantly break if i swap the files with any of the AIO packs here via MO. 

 

other than that little hurdle, it's not any more difficult than hdt-pe to install tbh. however, i personally am using smp solely for clothing physics and nothing else, so i would imagine my observations on its ease of use may be skewed due to the fact that i am not trying to troubleshoot it to get it to work on full body physics. i did manage to get pe bodies (weighted from default uunp special body, with hdt-pe vagina) to collide with smp clothing pieces. it wasn't easy and took a lot of trial and error, but i actually got it working in smp before i even managed to do the same with pe. the only skirt mesh i had with any semblance of thigh collision was the amiella skirt with daie's xml edits, but that thing spazzed like crazy. i finally rigged it with the bones from another smp skirt, and now that same skirt nif file has much more realistic physics and flutter, thigh collisions, with every single body mesh i use, which are all hdt-pe meshes with vagina mesh from uunp special body. the trick i figured out was to attach the smp extrastring to the body mesh, then attach the hdt-pe vagina xml to another bodypart. i just noticed hdt-pe doesn't need to be attached to the actual mesh in order for it to work (ie hdtm.xml used to be attached to male hands and it works with SOS collisions), so i applied the same logic here and it seems to work. 

 

with that said, using smp strictly for clothing physics, with an nvidia gpu and intel cpu, it was literally a drag and drop install.

[gtcard]

On 2/4/2018 at 12:42 PM, SassaAria said:

There's actually more energy at the moment over at the SSE-SMP thread.

i never really looked over at the sse section, so wasn't aware of this. nor was i aware of the fact that smp is the only physics system for sse. i guess that in itself should push the scene forward. hopefully some of that progress trickle back down to oldrim. 

 

i'm pretty sure i use smp unconventionally, but that's just my entire approach to skyrim from the beginning. i found it much more effective to get what i want by taking pieces from other mods and hashing them together to get something satisfactory, as opposed to sit here and wait for the stars to align for me so i can get perfection. just that the pickings are slim because i couldn't find many smp outfits out there to pool from.

 

[gtcard]

i guess i should clarify the way i'm using "smp". it feels like just as how hdt is now a huge generalization, diverging into pe and smp, saying smp in itself is also a generalization, with the majority of the info/tutorials/aio packs here covering body physics. i don't think i was clear when i brought this up, but the smp i'm interested in is the clothing physics, which is a bit more involved because you have to add the bones, weight it, then control it with the xml. that's the stuff i'm having trouble getting info on, so i can only work with what other people already made. so i don't know if we are comparing apples to oranges when people say smp is easy or hard to install. strictly speaking for clothing, smp so far has been just drag and drop for me. 

 

so i'm starting to understand why someone will say smp isn't experientially better than pe, or that it isn't worth the effort. i personally use pe body, and pe is perfectly fine for what i want from body meshes, so i'm coming from the same viewpoint. however, smp is a whole different animal when it comes to clothing, and it's not only experientially better than pe in that regard, it's just plain factually better. here is a video of vindictus miri armor rigged with smp physics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDIQFZFn9K8. coming from years of using pe in skyrim, that skirt's movement and those collisions with the thighs are unbelievably good because they are so believably real. 

 

27x pointed out smp behaves differently on different machines, and what works for me may set your computer on fire. however i think it's worth the effort to work out the kinks if the physics in that video are the results you can expect to get from smp. it will be a good start. i mean pe started with some havokobject.esp before people realized it's a placebo you can skip entirely by attaching xmls to nifs to get collisions. and now that's second nature.

 

hoping that happens with smp someday. 

[gtcard]

On 2/9/2018 at 9:35 PM, Xaqq said:

SMP will never reach the mainstream unfortunately, that is until you start seeing SMP conversions on skyrim nexus, it will never reach mainstream.

to be fair, there arne't many hdt conversions either. there won't be many smp conversions unless it becomes more popular; it won't become more popular unless there are more smp conversions. the mold has to be broken somehow. the reason hdt got popular had nothing to do with clothing and everything to do with how it's used on LL. smp should be able to do the body physics better, from what i can tell. i think it has thigh physics and what not, but i don't personally think smp is experientially better if we limit its use to strictly body physics. so i can certainly understand why people prefer pe over smp, or feel smp isn't worth the trouble.

 

where smp does excel and shoots way ahead of pe is in clothing physics. hdt-pe clothing always felt like an afterthought, just one of those "oh hey look it's cool" trial moments resulting from some modder's caprice. with smp, i feel like the core of it is the clothing physics. it just does it that much better than pe

[SassaAria]

14 hours ago, gtcard said:

i think the smp i'm using is from the chinese forums, which seems to allow pe and smp to work together. as far as actual differences, ...my physics instantly break if i swap the files with any of the AIO packs here via MO. 

 

with that said, using smp strictly for clothing physics, with an nvidia gpu and intel cpu, it was literally a drag and drop install.

For sure your physics would break, or would have visual  issues.

Using AIO it's setup 100% SMP.

14 hours ago, gtcard said:

 

i'm pretty sure i use smp unconventionally,

 

RealClone (or Clone Real) was very nice and shared some insight on that in the AIO.

Conventional for them appears to be this hybrid SMP-PE. 

It appears the Asian community has adopted this hybrid as the way at the moment.

(That's assuming what we Westeners are seeing represents them as a whole, which may be wrong.)

So you're conventional with another big part of the world, lol,  and a very creative and active community.

 

Personally believe SMP for both body and clothing will show superior results. (am lucky to have a better quality PC to achieve that at this time.)

With the new DLL (Jan 20, 2018 for Oldrim) that Hydro has made (also at link above) with better resource management, more people may now have better results.

[Guest]

[MotoMiri]

Current state of HDT:

https://vimeo.com/255465949

[27X]

That's not the current state of anything, just a preview of the possible final state of PE.

 

Also kind of curious why Tau would spend the time upverting the butt and still have that much angular deformation.

 

Hardware is only going to get better and both "HD" cbbe bodies with 12-14K verts have hard angles out the wazoo, ironically enough in the butt and hips especially; might as well go for broke with 40/64K verts and get the topology in shape to be deformed to almost any angle or amount of stretching.

 

Twice as much work and pain in the ass(lel), but infinite payoff and future proofing to boot.

[zarzil]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

ironically enough in the butt and hips especially; might as well go for broke with 40/64K verts and get the topology in shape to be deformed to almost any angle or amount of stretching.

I hear that, man.  There's so much work on tits, but I've yet to see hips and ass that deform well during sex animations. 

 

Like the working anus, though.  Can't want to get my hands on that.  Shouldn't be much worse to get working on SMP than a vagina.

[gtcard]

actually clone real's smp-pe clothing is the reason i made this thread. i've yet to see a "western" release of any smp clothing, which is what made me ask the question of why it's all coming out of the chinese modding community. i'm using smp-pe because the only smp clothing i can find are from chinese modders, and they use smp-pe. took me some time to realize smp-pe and smp are not the same thing. 

[27X]

It's coming out of the chinese community because A. Hydro likes pretty dresses (you think I'm kidding and I'm not) and B. all of the non-bullet documentation is Hanitized for Your Protection, and google translate ain't even KIND of close and C. Western authors are still stuck on PE because Bethesda fatigued and fractured the shit out of the community with their SSE/CC antics, and D the people most to likely get SMP up and running are fucking with FO4 for some completely inexplicable reason.

[Guest]

Ehh, what did i miss? What is this smp-pe everybody is Ranking about these days?

[27X]

It's smp for clothes with pe for bodies

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, 27X said:

It's smp for clothes with pe for bodies

And why would you do that?

[27X]

No idea 

[Lady Horus]

Since I was mentioned somewhere in here, thought I'd add my two cents

 

The reason I stuck with HDT PE is because I could actually use it properly with my graphics card. I seem to remember SMP requiring something unique to AMD cards? I have an Nvidia and didn't have the proper support. I got SMP to work through different settings but it came with a lot of tinkering. It is a superior system by far, but I felt that it needed more ease of use before I really dove into it.

 

Besides that I was still learning the basics of working with HDT and making it work with custom bones and all of that, so I wanted to start with what I knew worked and had ample support by the modding community. If SMP ever really takes off then I might move on to it.

 

As far as Skyrim SE, I still haven't gotten into that one yet as I'm still on Oldrim. My setup is pretty much exactly as I want it, and I'm rather partial to UNP so... I have no real incentive to move on to SSE right now.

 

I also haven't been so active in modding lately and I still have a crap ton to do on my existing mod, so I don't really want to have to start over on it on yet another new bodyslide type so there is that as well. I might get left behind as SSE becomes more and more popular but, that's fine.

[imacarl]

1 hour ago, Lady Horus said:

 

The reason I stuck with HDT PE is because I could actually use it properly with my graphics card. I seem to remember SMP requiring something unique to AMD cards? 

 

depended on what version of SMP you were using. I think some versions ran on 1.2, others on 2.0. AMD on GCN hardware has had it since the RX200 series (2013). Nvidia had adopted it during the 1XXX series (2016). Since AMD had hardware that had it compliant much longer, it made sense that more amd users were capable of using the tech

 

 

to make it clear, i think as for CPUs, had to have an intel 5th gen or newer(broadwell)