LL starts to become an adverticement site for patreon downloads

[Cataclysimz]

 

1 hour ago, R-Lo said:

 

 

However you want to see it, patreon is ultimately enabling more free content,

 

 

I don't condone paywall content if they remain behind a paywall for good or for too long.. but like R-Lo said, in a way, it is enabling the free content flow despite having to wait for a month or two to get your hand on them (if you're not a patron).. I doubt there'll be much content being released and floating around if it wasn't for the fact that money is giving creators the incentive to create, they wouldn't create as often if they all relied on their freetime or when they feel like it..  they're people too and have lives and responsibilities to tend to. 
people used to create and share as a hobby. That was  the case with the skyrim community on LL, but now in The sims 4's community , it's all about the money.. which is fine,  i mean if you can make profit out of your hobby and support yourself, then why not? But obviously there's always a downside to that when it comes to the consumer, not everyone can pay the creators for early access content, some charge a bit too much and if you were to go support multiple people it'll easily stack and you'll end up having to pay tens of dollars monthly, not everyone can afford that.. but that won't stop creators if the vast majority are pledging..  Like i said, it is motivating them, the fact that they're making money is a good thing.... for them and for you, as a consumer....  because it means that you'll be getting more content from them eventually.. So, what i'm trying to say is.. i don't know how to feel about Patreon, i want to hate it, but it's giving my favorite animators the spur to make more content which i enjoy, and i wouldn't have that otherwise.. i personally can't pledge to anyone for many reasons..  so i won't get my hands on those animations the moment they are released but i do eventually. If i was a creator myself, i would make content and let everyone get their hands on the stuff i create the moment i post them... while having a patreon page for optional support, i'm sure if my quality was great nothing's gonna stop people from trying to support my work :)  so it won't be a primary thing for me.

[doan77]

1 hour ago, R-Lo said:

It's the same every third week of the month, somebody starts a thread like this for people complain about supported mods while forgetting or just ignorant to the fact that the "free" site they claim to be flaming for actually receives support from Patreon and maybe some other forms to keep it running too,

 

Fair enough that too many pages are appearing but you can't treat all them with the same resentment,

 

As far as animation goes, sure it's easy to pick up but expectations are very high, some for quality and some for quantity and it's impossible to please everyone at that level, paid or unpaid,

 

Many people have started up and receive a bit of praise for the first couple uploads and then end up being ignored or just plain put off by people's attitudes,

 

People wanna complain about seeing preview for patreon throughout the month but if these modders were unsupported and worked when they felt like it, there would be no regular updates and you'd be potentially waiting a lot longer for a considerably smaller upload,

 

However you want to see it, patreon is ultimately enabling more free content,

Those who aren't playing by the rules should be reported as CPU says, instead of another starting pointless thread like this that just makes people end up looking like over entitled whiners despite not knowing about half the effort and time this takes,

 

Sure there's a lot of patreon pages but there's probably just as many threads demonizing them, all started by people that can barely manage thanks which in many opinions is far worse than looking to continue a project that might not normally be possible,

 

Not all of us have boundless amounts of time and nothing to do, 

Myself..... I'm a single parent with VERY little free time, many people like my work despite being an amateur and together they've encouraged me to continue,

It's the same for more people too... if people see something and want more, are we really that bad for having a way to deliver and still afford to eat every day after sacrificing time and paid hours by taking a lesser job to give more to the gaming community?

 

Patreon isn't the problem,

Just the people who ridicule simple mods and then in the same breath take for granted the stuff that's been thoroughly worked and developed

 

1/ No website can be free, you need to pay for it but making animation and uploading them here cost nothing. It's different.

 

2/
There is no problem with supporting someone on patreon, the problem is patreon exclusive content, contnent behind a paywall.

If you want to advertise something on TV, you pay the channel for that.

Is there a single patreon content creator, giving Ashal his part of the booty ?

After all, this is his website, anyone advertising content here should be paying him.

If we change a free modding community into a modding market - wich could be a good idea- it's not a free modding comunity anymore.
If you want to make a website where people advertise their own mod, buy and sells mod. It's fine, but this is not the place.

 

3/ If there is a lot of thread demonizing patreon content it's because : It is against the rule of this website. And it seems in the sims section that everyone must beg for money, every new animator start a patreon before having a single animation.

Just look at the rest of the website it's not like that. Sims community are a majority of new comer who can't respect a simple rule. So yeah it piss people off. 

1 hour ago, Bazinga said:

I don't like Patreon either and I think that the whole getting paid aspect takes away a lot from the open source spirit of communities like this.

 

But if people want to get paid for this so be it.

 

I'd really love to see this 3 months time limit being enforced rigorously though.

I can think of at least one Patreon on this site that circumvents this by putting Patreon-exclusive content in some "alpha" or "beta" package and then moving only a fraction of that additional content over to the free mod months later.

 

Won't tell you which mod though, cause I'm no snitch. :P

...

Maybe you could search for volunteers for the position of a "Patreon content moderator" of sorts. Would make sense imo because Patreon is indeed spreading like wildfire on this site.

That's a good idea a patreon content moderator.

The only problem with the spread of patreon exclusive content is a lack of moderation.

[mirlo1]

Many of the modders made their mods just for fun but noticed an easy way to make money with it. And this page was a page for mod sharing. Not for professional modding.

[Andy14]

1 hour ago, R-Lo said:

Patreon isn't the problem,

Just the people who ridicule simple mods and then in the same breath take for granted the stuff that's been thoroughly worked and developed

Your last two lines bring it to the point.
There is nothing to add to that except from people who think they have a right to get everything for nothing.

The reward of "thank you" does not seem to have worked well in the crowd - cause <> effect.

[R-Lo]

Patreon is in no way, shape or form, a fast buck or a quick cash grab, it takes months of work to build a substantial earning to live on, currently I now live on less money than I ever have in all my adult life but I'm doing something I love and have faith in the project I'm working on, we're not all "one trick ponies" you see.......

Many paid modders are pouring their hearts into breaking boundaries of the games and in process making it more possible for people who wanna mod for fun!

 

It takes a lot of time and effort to have a patreon, more so than simply modding for fun because it now means we are obligated to create and maintain our mods,

All the supported mods are fixed and usable, and free to download here, all the while lurkers continue to post issues about the unsupported mods that no longer work because the author is unavailable or just plain lost interest for whatever reason,

 

 

So in a nutshell, as much as people don't want to admit it, patreon is building the modding world, people are able to invest more of themselves into the mods rather than when they have a free evening,

 

 

When pets came to TS4, it was a huge eye opener in how much people rely on updates for their games,

Wicked Whims is Turbodriver's full-time job, 

 

When the new patch broke it, it was patched up in a day or two,

 

Imagine if he was grinding 40+ hours a week in a factory or office and coming home to family and just toyed with the mod an hr here and there,

 

We'd still be waiting now.........

 

 

The only thing that kills the spirit of the site is the debate on this topic and people being somehow jealous of the fact that this website and the creations being added to it is all being produced and "SHARED" by people who also need to eat and pay utility bills.

 

Patreon is not the enemy, take it away.... You potentially lose a chunk of the brand spanking new site it's paid for too

 

 

The ONLY enemy here is narrow-mindedness, people just gotta think of the bigger picture, agreed that some are over priced but if you don't like it then the site is plenty big enough to find something else to look at

 

 

 

 

 

[R-Lo]

31 minutes ago, doan77 said:

1/ No website can be free, you need to pay for it but making animation and uploading them here cost nothing. It's different.

 

2/It's a modding community, not a market. 
There is no problem with supporting someone on patreon, the problem is patreon exclusive content.

If you want to advertise something on TV, you pay the channel for that.

Is there a single patreon content creator, giving Ashal is part of the booty ?

After all it's his website, anyone advertising content here should be paying him.

 

3/ If there is a lot of thread demonizing patreon content it's because : It is against the rule of this website. And it seems in the sims section that everyone must beg for money, every new animator start a patreon before having a single animation.

Just look at the rest of the website it's not like that. Sims community are a majority of new comer who can't respect a simple rule. So yeah it piss people off. 

That's a good idea a patreon content moderator.

The only problem with the spread of patreon exclusive content is a lack of moderation.

If Ashal wanted a subscription from creators receiving support that would be fair enough, it's not a bad idea either as it would boost the site, we're not all greedy beggers, we just find ways to give you stuff and keep it going,

 

One animation can take me days to complete....

Just imagine if all us animators only had time to upload 4 animations a month?

 

There certainly wouldn't be 2000+  free animations to download here or anywhere...

 

 

So when talking about ignoring the rules of the site, why continuously skip over 1 & 2?

[R-Lo]

And it's also pretty clear in the abundance of these threads that we don't need a moderator specifically for this, 

Everybody seems to be pretty on it... Third week of every month, right on time 

[D_ManXX2]

All users still have options not pay patreon content. but other then that as long as the author is not breaking rules like keeping content beind paywall then there is nothing that can be done about that.

[Ponchita]

4 hours ago, Shadowhawk827 said:

Very true.  For relatively new modders it's a steep learning curve and you spend more time trying to figure out how to do things than you do actually assembling the mod.

 

I spent 100s of hours hours stumbling through every conceivable pitfall imaginable learning to mod.  I'm also one of those people that always has anything and everything go wrong on projects.  NOW, I'm pretty good at troubleshooting my work.

 

My rambling and meandering point however is that I keep pushing through because it's rewarding when you finally see the finished product come together and work.  It's even more rewarding when you get a positive comment about how your mod has improved somebody's game, or you get an endorsement / thumbs up.  Anybody thinking about trying modding, I urge you to go for it.   New folks have an advantage in that there are more tutorials out than when I learned.  I spent a good 100 hours of time just trying to figure out how to get my MCM menu to work, lol.  Now Darkfox127 has a YouTube tutorial that will teach you how to do a basic on in 15 minutes.

 

 

One thing I will add though...  Those of you who are veterans that want more people involved, be willing to answer questions.  Even the "stupid" ones.  They're only stupid because you already know the answer.  To a rookie though, what they're asking about is a legit cause of confusion.  Help may mean the difference between that person quitting or becoming the next Arthmoor.

Thank you Shadowhawk827, That was the most logical, concise explanation of what should not be as much of an issue. Yes it is true that some are just taking advantage of the rules, or are too busy to actually complete the mods previewed, but the majority are not. There are very gifted people out there that contribute to the gaming community, and I support my favorites because it is not an easy thing to do and they have to eat also. Because there are so many gifted modders out there it does get hard for the consumer to support everyone. especially if you only care for one trait or animation. But if someone you support doesn't do the work, he suffers financial consequences. i cancel the pledge. In all, I understand the need for generous donations of things that make us go bump in the night. But it should never be an entitlement, and if you find a modder who is working hard to produce great and consistent work, keeps up with new content, updates and works hard to take your demands to heart and do the work, then support them. I'd love to get my ideas in animation and if I could do it well, trust me..I may give away one, but you're paying for two ..hahaha cause this is a job for some, and who wants to go to work 40 hours a week and not get paid? For those who wonder"who is this long winded bitch....lol ..I was a waitress (mic drop) 

[Trykz]

I really hate this subject. Mostly because some people cannot seem to discern reality from fantasy, or prioritize their importance in the grand scheme of things. It's a game. And that bullshit about "people need to eat" as justification? Total horseshit. I have a full time fucking job that actually contributes to REAL-LIFE society, AND I STILL manage to find time now and then to provide FREE mods for FANTASY lands. Do I sometimes wish I had MORE time to mod so I can provide more free shit faster? Fuck no. Because..... well, priorities.

 

To argue for paywalls is COMPLETELY counter-intuitive to what modding has always been all about FOR YEARS. If you "require" payment for your stuff, then fuck you. You're no different from Bethesda with their "creation club" in my book. However, if you're just "suggesting" a little monetary recognition in the form of donations (and I don't mean that bullshit "set figure" crap either), then cool. Have at it. It means you got your priorities straight.

 

Hate me if you want, I really don't give a shit. But this subject always sets my hair on fire.

 

Trykz

[doan77]

9 minutes ago, R-Lo said:

And it's also pretty clear in the abundance of these threads that we don't need a moderator specifically for this, 

Everybody seems to be pretty on it... Third week of every month, right on time 

If something was done by the moderation, there would be no more thread like this.

 

Plus you can have all the patreon content, if you can use google. I don't think people complain so they can have free thing.

[Andy14]

47 minutes ago, mirlo1 said:

Many of the modders made their mods just for fun but noticed an easy way to make money with it. And this page was a page for mod sharing. Not for professional modding.

Who are you that you can make such allegations?
A member for 3.5 years and 47 posts?
So you have thanked someone very often - or just complained?

 

Making a mod is for fun?
Even if my mods are not available here:
It's not fun - it's hard work. Even if this work is operated as a hobby.
And this "fun" not only costs time, but also money.

 

I'm not a fan of Patreon - so much in advance.
But I respect the decision of an author to earn money with his work on Patreon or to pay his expenses.

 

If the author's work is good, Patreon will be worth it or at least cover the expenses.
If not, regulate the laws of the market.

 

As a recognizable pure beneficiary of this site an advice to you: Shut up and join in - and do not fidget if your gifts are not coming

[mirlo1]

I did send direct messages for mods i used or a few posts but i dont spam forums. I am annoyed about the commercial side.

[R-Lo]

7 minutes ago, Trykz said:

I really hate this subject. Mostly because some people cannot seem to discern reality from fantasy, or prioritize their importance in the grand scheme of things. It's a game. And that bullshit about "people need to eat" as justification? Total horseshit. I have a full time fucking job that actually contributes to REAL-LIFE society, AND I STILL manage to find time now and then to provide FREE mods for FANTASY lands. Do I sometimes wish I had MORE time to mod so I can provide more free shit faster? Fuck no. Because..... well, priorities.

 

To argue for paywalls is COMPLETELY counter-intuitive to what modding has always been all about FOR YEARS. If you "require" payment for your stuff, then fuck you. You're no different from Bethesda with their "creation club" in my book. However, if you're just "suggesting" a little monetary recognition in the form of donations (and I don't mean that bullshit "set figure" crap either), then cool. Have at it. It means you got your priorities straight.

 

Hate me if you want, I really don't give a shit. But this subject always sets my hair on fire.

 

Trykz

For some it's not just about the game, sure I've recently picked up animation and video editing but beyond this, in my real working world I'm also an artist and music producer, for the first time in the years I've put in there's a chance to make it into something public besides DJing for small change in nightclubs,

That's not counter intuitive, its progress,

If you got a stack of free hours after work and not much else to do then that's cool and people are lucky for that,

Some of us also work hard and are blessed with kids and don't have that stack of hrs,

Now we have a chance to produce at the same level or higher and people just complain about it and look for ways to sabotage it?

[mirlo1]

And many sims 4 modders are not take part as private person (i don´t speak about normal donations)

Here is a special Site rule:

Point 13:

We are a free and open community; members requiring payment for mods, support, or putting anything behind a paywall will be removed without warning. Donation buttons/links to support an author is fine, so long as nothing is promised, given, or rewarded other than a sense of satisfaction for supporting an author or owner of the content. 

[mirlo1]

R-Lo i diddn´t mean you / everyone here.

If you remember i sent you a private massage and thanked you for what you are doing. You give your work to others that don´t or arn´t able to support you (just a bit later).

But there are alot other modders that arn´t like you.

 

And there are alot modders that update daily their thread with just new content on my patreon page. And that every day. Thats advertisment.

[Andy14]

13 minutes ago, mirlo1 said:

I did send direct messages for mods i used or a few posts but i dont spam forums. I am annoyed about the commercial side.

Who is talking about spam here? Not me.
But your whole demeanor suggests that you have made yourself very deserving. And you do not have that. 3.5 years to download mods, no thanks, no nothing.
You're just mad, because mom says I'm not in the mood to feed you, there's the spoon,
This is a commercial site?! - let's pay the fees and go

[R-Lo]

1 minute ago, mirlo1 said:

And many sims 4 modders are not take part as private person (i don´t speak about normal donations)

Here is a special Site rule:

Point 13:

We are a free and open community; members requiring payment for mods, support, or putting anything behind a paywall will be removed without warning. Donation buttons/links to support an author is fine, so long as nothing is promised, given, or rewarded other than a sense of satisfaction for supporting an author or owner of the content. 

And the point is?

 

 

The mods supplied here do not require payment, you don't need a credit card or PayPal to use Loverslab,

 

 

 

[mirlo1]

There are modder that release a feeding mod like a demo. And if you like that for the rest that follows you have to pay.

[R-Lo]

5 minutes ago, mirlo1 said:

R-Lo i diddn´t mean you / everyone here.

If you remember i sent you a private massage and thanked you for what you are doing. You give your work to others that don´t or arn´t able to support you (just a bit later).

But there are alot other modders that arn´t like you.

 

And there are alot modders that update daily their thread with just new content on my patreon page. And that every day. Thats advertisment.

I appreciate that, I do understand that some are painfully slow on releasing but as I've said before, this isn't productive,

Sure that some overdo it but if you look closely, it's the same animations 

 

For example, I'll use Lupo, he's posting everyday sure but it's varying stages of the same work in progress, from the rigs and then in game lol,

 

Sure prices are high but hes made a heck of a lot of stuff 

 

 

Personally I do think there should be a cap on what creators can request and holding back things indefinitely is wrong, although the Dark Fantasy package could be argued as a considerate move

[Trykz]

1 minute ago, R-Lo said:

For some it's not just about the game, sure I've recently picked up animation and video editing but beyond this, in my real working world I'm also an artist and music producer, for the first time in the years I've put in there's a chance to make it into something public besides DJing for small change in nightclubs,

That's not counter intuitive, its progress,

If you got a stack of free hours after work and not much else to do then that's cool and people are lucky for that,

Some of us also work hard and are blessed with kids and don't have that stack of hrs,

Now we have a chance to produce at the same level or higher and people just complain about it and look for ways to sabotage it?

Modding has NEVER been something people have done to make a living. What's counter-intuitive, is trying to convince people that by charging for mods it is somehow different than Bethesda and their bullshit creation club, and then trying to justify it by saying you only charge because you have kids and work hard in your daily chosen vocation. You think I don't bust my ass every day at work? Modding has ALWAYS been a free enterprise where the only payment ever "expected" was the praise of the user for a quality addition to their leisure time activity. Take a look at the Oblivion section if you doubt that. Or the Skyrim section. Or the Fallout section. THOUSANDS of mods by HUNDREDS of modders doing their thing for ONE simple reason:

 

Their own personal gratification, and the recognition they receive from the users of the mods they create for the games they love.

 

So yeah, if you require payment for your stuff, you're no better than Bethesda and that fucking creation club travesty.

 

Trykz

[mirlo1]

2 minutes ago, Trykz said:

Modding has NEVER been something people have done to make a living. What's counter-intuitive, is trying to convince people that by charging for mods it is somehow different than Bethesda and their bullshit creation club, and then trying to justify it by saying you only charge because you have kids and work hard in your daily chosen vocation. You think I don't bust my ass every day at work? Modding has ALWAYS been a free enterprise where the only payment ever "expected" was the praise of the user for a quality addition to their leisure time activity. Take a look at the Oblivion section if you doubt that. Or the Skyrim section. Or the Fallout section. THOUSANDS of mods by HUNDREDS of modders doing their thing for ONE simple reason:

 

Their own personal gratification, and the recognition they receive from the users of the mods they create for the games they love.

 

So yeah, if you require payment for your stuff, you're no better than Bethesda and that fucking creation club travesty.

 

Trykz

Thank you. Thats what i mean.

[27X]

2 hours ago, Bazinga said:

I don't like Patreon either and I think that the whole getting paid aspect takes away a lot from the open source spirit of communities like this.

 

But if people want to get paid for this so be it.

 

I'd really love to see this 3 months time limit being enforced rigorously though.

I can think of at least one Patreon on this site that circumvents this by putting Patron-exclusive content in some "alpha" or "beta" package and then moving only a fraction of that additional content over to the free mod months later.

 

Won't tell you which mod though, cause I'm no snitch. :P

...

Maybe you could search for volunteers for the position of a "Patreon content moderator" of sorts. Would make sense imo because Patreon is indeed spreading like wildfire on this site.

 

Snitch?

 

roflmao the mod in question is the size of house and has a thread with PAGES, not posts going now into the hundreds, and the "author" whom doesn't not even have a meg of original, 100% self made content in said mod) can't even be assed to provide support except when it's time for more money to beg, and now scivirus is doing the same thing, so now both standardized bodies have paywall shit until such time as full SMP packages come along, IF the people working on them decide to make them public and deal with all the issue that entails, and those packages will still rely on other author's work for logistical and total-package (texture, outfit, scripting, mod integration/compatibility) support, in other words, community support from other authors AND users alike.

 

Sorry if you can't even bother to police your own goddamn mod for MONTHS, you shouldn't be getting free advertising from the site, especially when literally on the same page there are at least four other mods where people are busting their ass providing support they don't have to for FREE on THEIR time, including you.

 

That's bullshit and you know it.

[mirlo1]

The practice in the Sims 4 forum realy destroys modder community and the spirit of the community.

[Andy14]

Just now, 27X said:

 

Snitch?

 

roflmao the mod in question is the size of house and has thread with PAGES, not posts going now into the hundreds, and the author can't even be assed to provide support except when it's time for more money to beg, and now scivirus is doing the same thing.

 

Sorry if you can't even bother to police your own goddamn mod for MONTHS, you shouldn't be getting free advertising from the site, especially when literally on the same page there are at least four other mods where people are busting their ass providing support they don't have to for FREE on THEIR time, including you.

 

That's bullshit and you know it.

 

Lass Bazinga in Ruhe.

Er ist ein alter hilfloser Mann, der selbst bei der Aufnahme im Knast einen Schapka trug um sein erbärmliches Alter und seine Platte nicht in den Akten zu wissen.

Alt, aber eitel

 

@27x - war ein Joke

 

@Bazinga - für dich nicht ;)