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Hey ladies

 

I joined up here recently and was just lurking around, seeing what everyone was up to and where I might fit in. It's obviously not in this thread, since I'm a dude, but I thought it would be fun to read through and get to know some of the ladies here a little.

 

I initially didn't intend to comment on this thread, but then I stumbled onto this little gem and I couldn't help myself :smile: :

On 2/10/2018 at 5:24 AM, manchuligans said:

One day a female gamer said that when she used to manage guilds and servers, she noticed that when the female population of a server became about 50%, the female gamers would begin to leave and go to servers that were about 30% female.  I mentioned that I thought female gamers would prefer a greater female presence in their servers because it would provide a more positive gaming environment, but she said that's just what she observed.

 

I've heard that before and I've heard two plausible explanations for the phenomenon:

 

1. Some female gamers I've met - both IRL and online - actually like being in the minority because of the attention it gets them from guys. I can't say how many feel this way, but I've met a few who admitted it outright and knew of several other girls/women who felt the same way. Now, mind you, the attention they liked to get wasn't of the, "Ooh, you're a girl?! Let me hit on you!" variety. Most female gamers I've talked to actually hate that. It's more the, "Oh, you're a girl? Awesome! I didn't think girls liked this sort of thing!" kind of attention they enjoy. The moment too many other females got involved and took away some of the novelty of being "one of only a few", they would leave and find somewhere else to get that attention.

 

2. Many girls/women I've met who like PC and video games like them for the same reasons guys do and they want to play and interact with others the same way guys do as well. They don't start playing GTA V because they want to build pink houses with frilly doylies on all the furniture and discuss cookie recipes. Just like the guys, they want to be able to yell, "I WILL RIP YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF, PISS DOWN YOUR NECK AND SKULLFUCK YOUR EYESOCKET WITH A TIRE IRON!" at their screens or into their headsets if that's what they feel like doing and that's perfectly okay to do in a male dominated environment.

Again, as far as I've been told by female gamers I've known, as soon as you cross a certain threshold of females to males (and I've heard about 30-40% as well), girls/women apparently have a tendency to shame each other for certain kinds of behavior (like enjoying virtual violent behavior and language or discussing sexual desires and preferences, for example) and the more females you get together in one place, the higher the likelihood that someone will eventually start down that road. Drama swiftly ensues and it sucks the fun right out of it for the dudettes who came to play on equal terms with the dudes, so they leave.

 

A possible third option could be a combination: Novelty factor goes down + drama factor goes up = Fun de-asses the area with the quickness

 

I'd love to hear from you ladies whether or not this is something you recognize?

 

And to the guys who keep trolling this thread with "why does this even need to exist" comments, ask yourself this: Why does it bother you that it does...?

 

You may think you're being all millenial and progressive by claiming "women aren't a sub-group in the gaming community", but the fact is there are way less female gamers than male, which by the very definition of the word makes them a sub-group. If you think it's okay for any other sub-group to have their own thread, why not this one? Unless you're going to every thread devoted to every other kind of sub-group and asking the same question, you're not just being a dick, but the exact kind of dick who's responsible for a lot of girls/women not wanting to join the gaming community in the first place. Namely, the kind of dick who likes to pretend he's oh so enlightened, so because HE can't see the problem, it simply doesn't exist and the ladies must just be imagining it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm sure this sounds like the same old excuse everyone makes, but I come here and install NSFW mods for the immersion. No, really.

 

I fully admit, I'm plenty fine with a little bit of RP or such if I want a break from quests or such, but I don't really go out of my way to seek that out in games. It just feels unrealistic in a game like The Sims or a Bethesda RPG where your avatar can romance other characters for there not to be the option of being nude, or at least lewd, with or around them.

 

No idea if that's a more common reason for us girls or not, but I think it would be interesting to find out.

 

 

 

As for a maxing female population, I can't comment on myself because I rarely play "MMO styled" games on public servers (I play ARK and such, but use private servers), but that is in-line with what I see or hear about happening to public servers. I will also add that servers with higher female populations can sometimes attract certain kinds of childish players, who show up with the intention of trolling or harassing, especially if this server is becoming known for this. I remember that being a pretty major issue back when Minecraft was still big.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/14/2018 at 12:34 AM, huntressaela said:

If I had a reliable computer that would open the Creation Kit without crashing instantly on a regular basis, I'd get to creating my own romance mod ASAP. Perhaps with lesbian focus bc I'm primarily a gay lady PC. Maybe one day. I should start writing it tbh so once I finally can afford a PC I can trust I can just make it with all the stuff already in. 

Also I ship FemShep and literally all the ladies. Though I am partial to Asari bc blue grils do it for me. :classic_wub:

Is there any forum, club or other interchange that is specifically targeted at development discussion of relationship mods?

 

I am thinking primarily Skyrim SE but open to Fallout and Sims discussion et al.

 

I started an email exchange of ideas with another LL member several months ago but ... well just health issues on my end. I would love to work with a group to develop some sort of amorous/romantic framework that needed actual interaction building different types of relationships.

 

Yeah "one night stands"/"rape along the trail" are here and consequences like slavery/necromancy or devious devices can be incorporated but actual relationships seem to be inherent only in individual companion mods, e.g. Vilja, and a few others with RDO and Amorous Adventures and a couple others opening the door to NPC relationships.

 

Nothing though that operates in the actual game environment affecting the broader game play. Something that considers PC/NPC faction levels and exposure, actions not just dialog selection, travel, discoveries, and whatever else to bring some dynamics to the relationships in game. Same sex, intersex, hetero-sex, open marriage, mono marriage, harems, et al can all be done, but is it possible to set up a framework that allows an NPC wife in an open marriage to bring in another NPC to the marriage. How bout NPC mistresses not associated with the PC? In all cases, does the framework allow the PC to react/accept the actions or is it a prescriptive quest line?

 

If a forum or club does not exist, would any of you be interested in joining a club to exchange ideas?

Particularly interested in the perspective and leadership from the Girls of LoversLab!

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29 minutes ago, HansJochaimMarseilles said:

Compounding to this fact, is that most women in online communities are mostly fatties and uglies, and even these fatties and uglies want a Brad Pitt tier male.

Careful my good friend, you might find you are mistaken.  "mostly" is a very broad paint brush.

Listen carefully to yourself. Listen to what you dislike and you will find most of the imagery is what you have received and registered from other people. We ingest labels from others.

What I really resent most about people sticking labels on you is that it cuts off all the other elements of what you are because it can only deal with black and white; like a cartoon.
 

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1 hour ago, HansJochaimMarseilles said:

This is a "thinly" veiled thirst thread for neckbeards to find women online.


Suffice to say that most women are not interested in neckbeards or men who are too thirsty.

Compounding to this fact, is that most women in online communities are mostly fatties and uglies, and even these fatties and uglies want a Brad Pitt tier male.

Took a bit to quit laughing ... still chuckling though.

1) grey beard but haven't covered the neck as yet

2 & 3) dharvinia covered it quite well

 

At this age while I enjoy the T&A aspect as much as a lot of humans, I am looking for a more dynamic set of interactions in the game than most of the mods presently offer.

Based on some of the discussion in this thread I'm kinda hoping the "girls" could bring some of the interactive feel of Mass Effect Shep-Liara with some of the Fallout Karma progression and consequences into the Skyrim SE factions and NPC relationships.

 

If not Skyrim, then perhaps Kingdom Come or the future Cyberpunk. Great graphics but with something that is not straight out scripted with if/then and/or feel to the interactions.

 

The AI for gaming hasn't got to the point that actually typing or voicing the interaction can be interpreted by the AI and non-scripted responses generated. Of course if it gets to that point, hmmm 'nother thread about sex-bots maybe.

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18 minutes ago, HansJochaimMarseilles said:


Women however are not, and are only capable of seeing you as either tall or short, and wealthy or not.

You sound like someone that has been hurt real bad, as such and whether deserved or not please understand, Not all women are gold diggers, bitches, and heart breakers.

I am truly sorry because whatever this woman did, she did not have the power to steal your soul. Only you have the power to let someone devastate you in that manner.

Being able to see others as you put it "in three dimensional qualities"  has not served you as well as one would think it would.

TRUE, there are bad people out there, ones that would rip out your heart, fry it up, and make you eat it.  But that represents just a small portion of the women available to you.

 

Men like Women make the mistake of going after the 10's, and the 9's of society they make up about 3% of the total population. Even if you have high standards, there is still a huge majority of women as well as men who fit in the 3 to 8 category.  That makes up about 94% of the population.

    If you manage to get a 9 to 10 to go to bed with you, they have no idea why they are there.  Being shallow and self serving they have no concept of giving or making someone else feel better.

   However, if you manage to get a 5 or a 6 in bed they will know exactly why there are there, and they will rock your world.

If you truly love your brothers as you purport to do, then teach them the whole truth not just the truth as you see it.

Remember, the worst lie of all is half the truth.

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On 6/9/2018 at 2:13 AM, old cat said:

The AI for gaming hasn't got to the point that actually typing or voicing the interaction can be interpreted by the AI and non-scripted responses generated. Of course if it gets to that point, hmmm 'nother thread about sex-bots maybe.

AI in Gaming is something that could be soon with all these Amazon Echo's and Google Assistance but the problem is they are like not actual fully developed AI but just Talking Search Engines, once a true AI hits market you could give it a year before small steam games start making it eventually hitting Triple A markets then after that well, prepare to order your Sex-bot 69A-7 from Amazon with Amazon Prime discount!

 

What I find funny about the whole Sexbot speculations and adaptations in movies is that majority of men have Sexbots due to the fact that women are more much to handle then a robot designed to obey your every command, alongside that with more and more males end up being lonely and feel they could never get a girl in their entire life. 

The problem is they don't even try to look for a partner, it's effecting me. I feel like I don't get approached because I'm not Attractive enough to be approached but its just that average male self-confidence is ever so decreasing.

 

On the other hand males buying more sexbots, females would slowly adapt to that lifestyle due to lack of 'action' on males.

 

The future is bliss

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/10/2018 at 3:09 PM, Ashkandii said:

On the other hand males buying more sexbots, females would slowly adapt to that lifestyle due to lack of 'action' on males.

Aren't they already? I mean, all we've been hearing for the past 50 odd years is how unneeded we were, how obsolete and redundant men are in modern society. Men listen, they may not talk much but that does not mean they do not pay attention. If somebody makes it clear they don't want you around what's an honest bloke to do then show himself out?

 

This may not be the best topic to discuss this, i don't want to rain on your parade. I tend to read this sort of topics to gain better understanding of woman's POW, and try to stay out of it as much as i can, so i do not disturb the environment with my presence. But it seems sometime that women don't understand men any more then men understand women, they just think they do because they have been told over and over that men are simple.

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1 hour ago, Mars1991 said:

Aren't they already? I mean, all we've been hearing for the past 50 odd years is how unneeded we were, how obsolete and redundant men are in modern society. Men listen, they may not talk much but that does not mean they do not pay attention. If somebody makes it clear they don't want you around what's an honest bloke to do then show himself out?

 

This may not be the best topic to discuss this, i don't want to rain on your parade. I tend to read this sort of topics to gain better understanding of woman's POW, and try to stay out of it as much as i can, so i do not disturb the environment with my presence. But it seems sometime that women don't understand men any more then men understand women, they just think they do because they have been told over and over that men are simple.

I would say there is more to it than that. It's not that we women think men actually are simple, so much as we assume most men are going to act simple because most people in general will try to appeal to their peers, and "sportsball loving - borderline sexual harassing - muscles for brains jock" is in a lot of areas the baseline standard of male behavior. And I would say peer pressure is harder on men than it is on women, at least in terms of living up to expectations that aren't even positive expectations in most peoples eyes. Women don't normally have to deal with peers wanting us to live up to the explicitly negative tropes surrounding us.

 

Toxic masculinity and the pressure on men to be "masculine/domineering/forward/etc." often hurts men as much as it hurts women, and a lot of women are just as guilty of promoting it as male peers are when they reinforce this behavior by seeking out meaningless relationships with these kinds of men. Expectations on men to be sexually aggressive and women to be more receptive the more "impressive" the mans masculine traits are are simply that, expectations, not justifications (for either party).

 

Women who avoid these kinds of behaviors, whether in romantic partners or in friends, are often conflated as "man-hating", or shaming male sexuality, but that isn't the case. It's not about hating men, it's that there is precedent for being slow to trust men who go out of their way to project masculinity.

 

I fully admit when a man "approaches me" I often start from a point of low expectations, maybe even disgust or fear, I simply don't expect a man who would brazenly approach a girl in public to be anything other than a self-proclaimed pick-up artist or borderline creep. And some of that is definitely on me, for assuming these sorts of people would be so omnipresent, but these stereotypes definitely come from truth, and I can say from personal experience that at least some of that discomfort is warranted.

 

Probably not the best judge, being a small introverted nerdy lesbian, but hopefully this is some insight into how a girl who is completely uninterested would feel about public flirting.

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1 hour ago, stargatedalek said:

I fully admit when a man "approaches me" I often start from a point of low expectations, maybe even disgust or fear, I simply don't expect a man who would brazenly approach a girl in public to be anything other than a self-proclaimed pick-up artist or borderline creep. And some of that is definitely on me, for assuming these sorts of people would be so omnipresent, but these stereotypes definitely come from truth, and I can say from personal experience that at least some of that discomfort is warranted.

 

Probably not the best judge, being a small introverted nerdy lesbian, but hopefully this is some insight into how a girl who is completely uninterested would feel about public flirting.

Yeah but, honestly, can you think of the better alternative? I saw plenty of suggestions in the past and they all share the same trait, they absolutely, positively, won't float. Heterosexual women respond to this sort of behavior, it may be different for lesbians, idk, but this is what hetero women tend to be attracted to, and expecting them to stop being attracted to it is wholly unreasonable. Evolution is merciless, and it is particularly merciless towards men, i heard estimates that only about 40% of men trough history actually passed on their genes, compared to 80% of women.

 

Also i have to tell you, approaching and starting a conversation with someone you do not know is positively terrifying, especially if that someone is a girl you may have interest in. It's like taking a dive off the cliffs into the sea, the water is cold, if you don't land perfectly you will hurt yourself and you are never sure if there is enough water down there to cushion your fall. It may look brazen to you but i guarantee you those guys had to work themselves up to it, or simply get drunk, that's how most people do it. I don't know anyone who does not get that sense of dread before doing it, because at that moment the woman you are approaching has the power to completely break you, if she wants, or arguably just as bad, refuses to even acknowledge your presence.

 

But despite all this there is still not a viable alternative to this, and that is not likely to change, someone has to approach and start a conversation, and women sure as hell won't start doing it, so we are stuck with the way things are, no matter how annoying it may be.

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21 minutes ago, Mars1991 said:

Yeah but, honestly, can you think of the better alternative? I saw plenty of suggestions in the past and they all share the same trait, they absolutely, positively, won't float. Heterosexual women respond to this sort of behavior, it may be different for lesbians, idk, but this is what hetero women tend to be attracted to, and expecting them to stop being attracted to it is wholly unreasonable. Evolution is merciless, and it is particularly merciless towards men, i heard estimates that only about 40% of men trough history actually passed on their genes, compared to 80% of women.

 

Also i have to tell you, approaching and starting a conversation with someone you do not know is positively terrifying, especially if that someone is a girl you may have interest in. It's like taking a dive off the cliffs into the sea, the water is cold, if you don't land perfectly you will hurt yourself and you are never sure if there is enough water down there to cushion your fall. It may look brazen to you but i guarantee you those guys had to work themselves up to it, or simply get drunk, that's how most people do it. I don't know anyone who does not get that sense of dread before doing it, because at that moment the woman you are approaching has the power to completely break you, if she wants, or arguably just as bad, refuses to even acknowledge your presence.

 

But despite all this there is still not a viable alternative to this, and that is not likely to change, someone has to approach and start a conversation, and women sure as hell won't start doing it, so we are stuck with the way things are, no matter how annoying it may be.

The better alternative is to start a normal conversation, and if things go well, try to ease into it and politely ask if she is interested.

 

When I say "approached" I don't mean "started a conversation in a way where it was clear they were waiting for an opportunity to ask for a date", if I'd meant that I wouldn't have used quotations. I mean men who with no establishing conversation walk up to a girl and start flirting, boasting about their prowess, or even outright asking for or demanding sex. Any woman who responds positively to that is part of the problem, not a reason to persist.

 

I emphasize I do not drink in bars or night clubs, attend "wild" parties (only formal events or events where only people I know are invited), or generally fraternize in contexts where this sort of behavior could ever be considered expected. I am talking about men who have approached me in restaurants, on public transportation, while walking outside or even while shopping in stores.

 

Men like these approach girls effortlessly, even carelessly, in order to feel like they're better fulfilling the alpha male stereotype, or to look good in front of peers. Some are of course actual creeps and/or delusional "pick-up artists", but likely not as many as people tend to think.

 

I understand for most just talking to someone they don't know is difficult, I'm far from socially adept myself, and with the added bonus of being statistically far less likely to find someone who could even on paper find me attractive (lot less lesbians than straight women, duh, xD). But it's very easy to tell when someone is approaching you cautiously thinking they might have a chance, versus someone approaching you that sees you as a piece of meat.

 

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Admittedly I haven't read the entire 8 pages of this thread, but I've skimmed the last few posts to get some context, but with that said... The first step to approaching any woman is realizing that they are a god damned person with their own desires, fears, preferences, and personalities. People talk about women like they are all the same, like they are the polar opposite from men in every way. Some women approach men with the same nervous fortitude, some women like being approached, some women hate it. The exact same thing can be said for men, some find approaching women to be the easiest thing in the world and others have to work up the courage. The moment you start thinking of a woman as a vagina to be entered, you've already lost. Also don't fault women for other women's actions... If one woman goes off the handle because you said a simple "hello" don't attribute that to all women being "stuck up cunts."

 

Basically what I'm getting at is that the differences between men and women are mostly superficial bullshit. Just consider what you'd do in their situation, as well as if and how you'd like to be approached.

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20 minutes ago, stargatedalek said:

The better alternative is to start a normal conversation, and if things go well, try to ease into it and politely ask if she is interested.

 

When I say "approached" I don't mean "started a conversation in a way where it was clear they were waiting for an opportunity to ask for a date", if I'd meant that I wouldn't have used quotations. I mean men who with no establishing conversation walk up to a girl and start flirting, boasting about their prowess, or even outright asking for or demanding sex. Any woman who responds positively to that is part of the problem, not a reason to persist.

 

I emphasize I do not drink in bars or night clubs, attend "wild" parties (only formal events or events where only people I know are invited), or generally fraternize in contexts where this sort of behavior could ever be considered expected. I am talking about men who have approached me in restaurants, on public transportation, while walking outside or even while shopping in stores.

 

Men like these approach girls effortlessly, even carelessly, in order to feel like they're better fulfilling the alpha male stereotype, or to look good in front of peers. Some are of course actual creeps and/or delusional "pick-up artists", but likely not as many as people tend to think.

 

I understand for most just talking to someone they don't know is difficult, I'm far from socially adept myself, and with the added bonus of being statistically far less likely to find someone who could even on paper find me attractive (lot less lesbians than straight women, duh, xD). But it's very easy to tell when someone is approaching you cautiously thinking they might have a chance, versus someone approaching you that sees you as a piece of meat.

 

The thing is, in most circumstances you won't be given enough time to start a normal conversation, at least as a man, and showing any sign of hesitation will sink your chances faster then iceberg sunk Titanic, if you want to get anywhere you have to do something quick and impressive to grab her attention, and while leading with the sex talk is definitely going too far politely starting a conversation, as you put it, only really works between women. Let me explain it this way, lesbians are attracted to women so they are attracted to feminine characteristics, hetero females on the other hand are attracted to masculine characteristics, which happen to be boldness, assertiveness and boisterousness. Women who prefer feminine characteristics (like lesbians) won't magically become attracted to men just because they start exhibiting feminine characteristics, no woman who is attracted to feminine characteristics will want an imitation woman over a real woman. Again i emphasize that asking for sex outright is going too far but sadly what you suggest just does not work in real life, not that most men would not be happy if it did, cause that would be much less stressful. You say women who respond to that are part of the problem, but unless you can think of some way to have majority of women do 180 on their dating preferences i don't see anything changing, all you will do is make those men who do follow your advice get left behind. As they say, don't hate the player, hate the game, none of us really have much choice, you can decide not to play the game but that just means you loose by default.

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10 minutes ago, Snowrune said:

Admittedly I haven't read the entire 8 pages of this thread, but I've skimmed the last few posts to get some context, but with that said... The first step to approaching any woman is realizing that they are a god damned person with their own desires, fears, preferences, and personalities. People talk about women like they are all the same, like they are the polar opposite from men in every way. Some women approach men with the same nervous fortitude, some women like being approached, some women hate it. The exact same thing can be said for men, some find approaching women to be the easiest thing in the world and others have to work up the courage. The moment you start thinking of a woman as a vagina to be entered, you've already lost. Also don't fault women for other women's actions... If one woman goes off the handle because you said a simple "hello" don't attribute that to all women being "stuck up cunts."

 

Basically what I'm getting at is that the differences between men and women are mostly superficial bullshit. Just consider what you'd do in their situation, as well as if and how you'd like to be approached.

Of course there are always exceptions, but norms still hold, just because there are outliers does not mean most people do not cluster around the median, also i don't know anyone who sees women as just vaginas, i am sure such people exist but i never met one of them. And as for how most men would respond if they were approached, unless said woman was really really ugly i doubt most men would care, so long as they realized they were being approached, woman would have to be quite straightforward for a man to even realize she wants something more then a simple conversation, and in such a case i do believe most men would be flattered enough by the very fact they were being approached that nothing else would really matter, not a lot of men have that happen to them, only the best looking/most charming of men ever have that sort of experience, so being approached, in any way shape or form, automatically puts you in top 1% of men. TBH i don't think that's a good yardstick, men would be way more forgiving of a lot of things, and they generally aren't bothered by being perceived as a piece of meat.

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24 minutes ago, Mars1991 said:

The thing is, in most circumstances you won't be given enough time to start a normal conversation, at least as a man, and showing any sign of hesitation will sink your chances faster then iceberg sunk Titanic, if you want to get anywhere you have to do something quick and impressive to grab her attention, and while leading with the sex talk is definitely going too far politely starting a conversation, as you put it, only really works between women. Let me explain it this way, lesbians are attracted to women so they are attracted to feminine characteristics, hetero females on the other hand are attracted to masculine characteristics, which happen to be boldness, assertiveness and boisterousness. Women who prefer feminine characteristics (like lesbians) won't magically become attracted to men just because they start exhibiting feminine characteristics, no woman who is attracted to feminine characteristics will want an imitation woman over a real woman. Again i emphasize that asking for sex outright is going too far but sadly what you suggest just does not work in real life, not that most men would not be happy if it did, cause that would be much less stressful. You say women who respond to that are part of the problem, but unless you can think of some way to have majority of women do 180 on their dating preferences i don't see anything changing, all you will do is make those men who do follow your advice get left behind. As they say, don't hate the player, hate the game, none of us really have much choice, you can decide not to play the game but that just means you loose by default.

This is what people believe but it's just simply not true. That belief stems from a simplified pattern attained from countless random dots and experiences that is easier for the limited human mind to picture than the countless variables and factors that are in play. First of all Masculine and Feminine characteristics themselves are completely subjective, everyone defines masculine and feminine differently based on culture, experience, and beliefs. Since that is the case the theory evolution developing to provide preferences to masculine and feminine aspects is not only absurd it's impossible. Lesbians and homosexuals wouldn't have a different attraction based on feminine or masculine traits, but simply wouldn't exist at all as they would conflict with existing biological parameters. Of course they say that being gay could be a genetic breaking of a female having male attraction, but there are lesbians who prefer traditionally masculine women.

Honestly the "don't hate the player hate the game" is not a valid excuse at all since the game actually doesn't have any fixed rules or guidelines! None at all! You choose how you play and your success is determined SOLELY by the other player, not by some made up bullshit that all heterosexual women find this attractive or that attractive due to biological needs.

Admittedly there is some anthropological behaviors at play that have been observed with regards to women statistically seeking out a mate that can protect and provide, but you are greatly, greatly, GREATLY overestimating the actual bearing those factors have on the overall decision of the woman. It's like how eating an egg sandwich before taking a test will statistically increase your odds of success, but you're not going to just magically pass tests because all you eat is Egg Sandwiches.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that your logic, although it makes sense in theory, falls flat in practice.

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27 minutes ago, Mars1991 said:

Of course there are always exceptions, but norms still hold, just because there are outliers does not mean most people do not cluster around the median, also i don't know anyone who sees women as just vaginas, i am sure such people exist but i never met one of them. And as for how most men would respond if they were approached, unless said woman was really really ugly i doubt most men would care, so long as they realized they were being approached, woman would have to be quite straightforward for a man to even realize she wants something more then a simple conversation, and in such a case i do believe most men would be flattered enough by the very fact they were being approached that nothing else would really matter, not a lot of men have that happen to them, only the best looking/most charming of men ever have that sort of experience, so being approached, in any way shape or form, automatically puts you in top 1% of men. TBH i don't think that's a good yardstick, men would be way more forgiving of a lot of things, and they generally aren't bothered by being perceived as a piece of meat.

This is also something that people believe that isn't true. Men are believed to be horny sex machines that will take any hot woman that approaches them, but that is simply a stereotype. I will also like to point out that the data is not a majority clustering around the center and a few outliers, but rather a majority outliers with a significant portion clustered around the center. Men and women really aren't that different at all... If they were you wouldn't get transgendered people or plutonic male/female friends, or even men/women who disguise themselves on the internet for some purpose or another. It's the belief that men and women are fundamentally different that is causing so many problems in society.

 

Much of the "2 genders vs. multiple genders" debate stems from people having completely different definition of what it means to be a "woman" or a "man." They are basically the exact same thing with different underwear, but have entirely different sets of expectations that create and reinforce the perceptions. Many of the genderfluid and nonbinary people out there simply don't feel that they meet the expectations/criteria of a certain gender and attempt to remove themselves from the equation. "Women are like this, men are like this, and that's how it is." It's actually kind of sickening when you think about it... most of these expectations are based on outdated/extinct belief systems and religious indoctrination... Like the idea that breasts are sexual actually stems from Christian Missionaries saying that women should cover themselves while in church out of respect for god... which became "women should always cover themselves because god is everywhere and you should always respect him," which eventually became "breasts are dirty sex organs that should be hidden from the world."

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19 minutes ago, Snowrune said:

This is also something that people believe that isn't true. Men are believed to be horny sex machines that will take any hot woman that approaches them, but that is simply a stereotype. I will also like to point out that the data is not a majority clustering around the center and a few outliers, but rather a majority outliers with a significant portion clustered around the center. Men and women really aren't that different at all... If they were you wouldn't get transgendered people or plutonic male/female friends, or even men/women who disguise themselves on the internet for some purpose or another. It's the belief that men and women are fundamentally different that is causing so many problems in society.

 

Much of the "2 genders vs. multiple genders" debate stems from people having completely different definition of what it means to be a "woman" or a "man." They are basically the exact same thing with different underwear, but have entirely different sets of expectations that create and reinforce the perceptions. Many of the genderfluid and nonbinary people out there simply don't feel that they meet the expectations/criteria of a certain gender and attempt to remove themselves from the equation. "Women are like this, men are like this, and that's how it is." It's actually kind of sickening when you think about it... most of these expectations are based on outdated/extinct belief systems and religious indoctrination... Like the idea that breasts are sexual actually stems from Christian Missionaries saying that women should cover themselves while in church out of respect for god... which became "women should always cover themselves because god is everywhere and you should always respect him," which eventually became "breasts are dirty sex organs that should be hidden from the world."

I am afraid i completely disagree, for one the idea that breasts are not inherently sexual falls flat because aside from humans no other mammal has permanent breasts, in most species of mammals breasts only develop during pregnancy and go away shortly after offspring stops suckling, in humans however not only do women have breasts permanently, whether or not they are breastfeeding, which is not only massive investment of resources but also can have detrimental effect on the spine and torso, but furthermore women develop breasts way before they first need them, and those breasts are not even functional until they get pregnant, they are just fatty tissue, no actual mammary glands are present. In light of all that it makes zero evolutionary sense for women to have developed this trait (that, again, was not there by default, since our ancestors did not have it, it was an acquired trait) unless it served some important purpose, and gender dymorphism seems by far the most likely candidate. With humans starting to wear clothing and loosing their sense of smell i suspect it became quite hard to tell who was a woman and who was a man, so two big globes broadcasting to everyone "i am a woman" would be useful indeed. I think we are discussing chicken-egg here, and that is something we are not likely to reach an agreement on.

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2 hours ago, Mars1991 said:

The thing is, in most circumstances you won't be given enough time to start a normal conversation, at least as a man, and showing any sign of hesitation will sink your chances faster then iceberg sunk Titanic, if you want to get anywhere you have to do something quick and impressive to grab her attention, and while leading with the sex talk is definitely going too far politely starting a conversation, as you put it, only really works between women. Let me explain it this way, lesbians are attracted to women so they are attracted to feminine characteristics, hetero females on the other hand are attracted to masculine characteristics, which happen to be boldness, assertiveness and boisterousness. Women who prefer feminine characteristics (like lesbians) won't magically become attracted to men just because they start exhibiting feminine characteristics, no woman who is attracted to feminine characteristics will want an imitation woman over a real woman. Again i emphasize that asking for sex outright is going too far but sadly what you suggest just does not work in real life, not that most men would not be happy if it did, cause that would be much less stressful. You say women who respond to that are part of the problem, but unless you can think of some way to have majority of women do 180 on their dating preferences i don't see anything changing, all you will do is make those men who do follow your advice get left behind. As they say, don't hate the player, hate the game, none of us really have much choice, you can decide not to play the game but that just means you loose by default.

You are 100% wrong.

 

Unless by "your chances" you meant to say "your chances of meaningless anonymous sex". Most women do not like when men do "quick and impressive" things, they do not like having their attention grabbed, and they do not respond well to assertive, dominant, or sexually aggressive behavior from men they do not know. The few women who do like these things are seeking anonymous, immediate, sex, and are not representative of any majority. Unless you meant majority of women seeking immediate sex, which, from the rest of what you said, I am genuinely unsure you didn't mean.

 

You are also wrong that lesbians like feminine traits and straight women like masculine ones. There are plenty of straight women out there who like men who are polite, and who are secure enough about themselves that they don't need to showboat. Similarly there are plenty of lesbians seeking dominant or assertive women.

 

What do you mean by "imitation woman"? Because that better not mean what I think you meant. If you just meant effeminate men than yes, obviously lesbians are not going to be interested in men simply because they are effeminate, but there are plenty of straight women who will be.

 

If "the game" involves its players actively bothering and harming myself and others, why not hate both? If you really feel you can't win "the game", than why not play another one? If you really feel pressured to be a douche bag so that you "stand a chance" of getting a girlfriend why not just try online dating? No pressure on you to meet whatever expectations you think women have (that they don't have).

 

2 hours ago, Mars1991 said:

Of course there are always exceptions, but norms still hold, just because there are outliers does not mean most people do not cluster around the median, also i don't know anyone who sees women as just vaginas, i am sure such people exist but i never met one of them. And as for how most men would respond if they were approached, unless said woman was really really ugly i doubt most men would care, so long as they realized they were being approached, woman would have to be quite straightforward for a man to even realize she wants something more then a simple conversation, and in such a case i do believe most men would be flattered enough by the very fact they were being approached that nothing else would really matter, not a lot of men have that happen to them, only the best looking/most charming of men ever have that sort of experience, so being approached, in any way shape or form, automatically puts you in top 1% of men. TBH i don't think that's a good yardstick, men would be way more forgiving of a lot of things, and they generally aren't bothered by being perceived as a piece of meat.

You're still imagining this is happening in a bar or club. Imagine you're on a bus trying to get home from work and some woman practically pins you against a wall and starts boasting about how great she is and that she can seduce any man. Then imagine that happens frequently, say 3-5 times a month.

 

Now who is the one saying all men are the same? I highly doubt all men are so dense they couldn't tell if a girl was hitting on them. And you really think all men would respond well to being genuinely harassed? That is definitely not true.

 

I'm not someone who conflates sex and sexism. This isn't about being sexualized, I'm all for that as long as it's enabled in equal measure, this is about a complete misconception being used to justify chastising, harassing, or otherwise bothering people needlessly. When men do this because they feel they need to they only trick more men into feeling the same way.

 

I reiterate, if you are actually interested in meeting a nice girl and establishing a genuine relationship you should approach her politely and not brag about yourself, showboat, or flirt aggressively. You will not achieve a genuine relationship through any of that.

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19 minutes ago, stargatedalek said:

You are 100% wrong.

 

Unless by "your chances" you meant to say "your chances of meaningless anonymous sex". Most women do not like when men do "quick and impressive" things, they do not like having their attention grabbed, and they do not respond well to assertive, dominant, or sexually aggressive behavior from men they do not know. The few women who do like these things are seeking anonymous, immediate, sex, and are not representative of any majority. Unless you meant majority of women seeking immediate sex, which, from the rest of what you said, I am genuinely unsure you didn't mean.

 

You are also wrong that lesbians like feminine traits and straight women like masculine ones. There are plenty of straight women out there who like men who are polite, and who are secure enough about themselves that they don't need to showboat. Similarly there are plenty of lesbians seeking dominant or assertive women.

 

What do you mean by "imitation woman"? Because that better not mean what I think you meant. If you just meant effeminate men than yes, obviously lesbians are not going to be interested in men simply because they are effeminate, but there are plenty of straight women who will be.

 

If "the game" involves its players actively bothering and harming myself and others, why not hate both? If you really feel you can't win "the game", than why not play another one? If you really feel pressured to be a douche bag so that you "stand a chance" of getting a girlfriend why not just try online dating? No pressure on you to meet whatever expectations you think women have (that they don't have).

 

You're still imagining this is happening in a bar or club. Imagine you're on a bus trying to get home from work and some woman practically pins you against a wall and starts boasting about how great she is and that she can seduce any man. Then imagine that happens frequently, say 3-5 times a month.

 

Now who is the one saying all men are the same? I highly doubt all men are so dense they couldn't tell if a girl was hitting on them. And you really think all men would respond well to being genuinely harassed? That is definitely not true.

 

I'm not someone who conflates sex and sexism. This isn't about being sexualized, I'm all for that as long as it's enabled in equal measure, this is about a complete misconception being used to justify chastising, harassing, or otherwise bothering people needlessly. When men do this because they feel they need to they only trick more men into feeling the same way.

 

I reiterate, if you are actually interesting in meeting a nice girl and establishing a genuine relationship you should approach her politely and not brag about yourself, showboat, or flirt aggressively. You will not achieve a genuine relationship through any of that.

Let me be clear, i don't do that anymore, i was only actively approaching for a few months between ages of 21 and 22 (27 now) but what i am saying i am saying entirely from experience, i had more luck in those few months then in my entire life before, alto i never, as you would put it, dragged any girl to bed, just because i was not into one night stands. Not all men are the same, you are reading into my words something i never said, however vast majority of them share certain traits and experiences. I am not here to argue or prove i am right, i am just trying to explain how things look like on my end, you may not believe me, or think you know better, but i swear that what i am saying i did not pull out of thin air.

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I can see that there are ongoing arguments and conversations going on in this topic already, so I hope I won't be interrupting anything.. However, recently I've been quite bothered by one subject and I'm dying to hear some opinions from a female perspective, which is why I'm posting it here instead of making a new topic.

 

What do you ladies think of so-called "alpha", macho/heavily masculine guys? An overly confident man usually of muscular physique, who will walk inside a bar, acting as if he owns the place, lighting up a cig and ordering the finest bourbon, scaring "little boys" away with his serious presence. No, I'm not talking about an abusive piece of shit who treats women like crap, brags about all the vaginas he got inside and only cares about his biceps.. instead, I'm talking about men with that cocky/dangerous aura who spread the dominant masculine energy, as if they have a "DO NOT F WITH ME" tattoo on their forehead. 

 

Do any of you find it attractive? Sexy? Is there a certain charm (?) that these macho/alpha guys possess which women find hot?

 

Finally, for the sake of not making this strictly about sex, separate it from those "dominant alpha male" sexual fantasies, which may appear in some of your dirty minds, porn, games and such. INSTEAD, focus on this guy's character, as if you are seeing him at this very moment, walking up and sitting next to you in the bar. 

Really looking forward to some answers. Hope my subject is interesting enough to spark up a conversation and if so, I may consider making this an entire new topic where everyone can freely talk about it. Cheers! 

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