Potential New Mouth Mesh? [Thoughts & Tongue Animations?]

[delroku]

i like how uncanny the characters look with it, we're reaching realism levels that shouldn't be possible.
i'd love to see that on a mod (or several) as soon as possible.

the tongue animations idea would be neat, but for now i'd be pleased to use it as a replacer... or addition, tbh i don't quite remember if the characters in the game have teeth or not.

just thought about it right now that i got blessed with this view.

[NightroModzz]

 

 

I'm a little concerned with 3D teeth's potential clipping. Even vanilla's 2D planes has problems clipping here and there.

 

 

if the teeth are inside the mouth, and the reference weights you copy paste are good, there can't be clipping

the problem when you give stuff to npc, it's sieges or other things with a lot of npcs

 

no mod, 30 npcs it's 50-100 mb maybe

if you give them high poly teeth, that are 1 mb, while vanilla is 50 kb maybe, if only half those npc are clones (there's only 6 soldiers, one superior, 2 tulius...), those npcs are now 65-115 mb

with mods like obis or 3dnpc, you facegendata folder become 5 gb bigger

 

if you give them hair mods, that are 2-6mb (don't pick 6 mb hairs for npcs), those npcs are now 95-205 mb, and facegendata become 10 gb bigger (it matter too)

 

if you use immersive armors, or have add stuff to leveled lists, and those npc pick 5 non vanilla armors that are about 25 mb, they are now 220-330 mb

 

eating more ram no longer matter much, most have more than 2 gb now, with gpu that have more than 1 gb

the problem it's to have to regenerate heads for the npc of all mods you try, because of that those mods fall to oblivion

 

and the performance impact, if cpu can handle 50.8 frames per seconds here, with those high poly teeth it may drop to 50.4 frames per seconds

you can't see the performance impact here

after adding something else, it drop to 50.1, and with another mod 49.9, most will think it's that another mod that is performance hungry

 

I'm pretty sure he just means the mesh model. As in how they are made, not if they clip during animations (regarding weights) or with other objects that aren't part of the model itself. Like when mesh parts collide and sink into each other. A minor example shown in the first picture that happens on a few of the back teeth of my model, but mine isn't noticeable from a distance that you would view in a game when zoomed in like shown in the second picture. 

 

Also, not sure what he means by planes, but probably referring to the landscapes clipping into each other which has ugly (NO) texture blending.

 

 

[yatol]

i like how uncanny the characters look with it, we're reaching realism levels that shouldn't be possible.

 

my screens it's not his meshe...

and it's not because the 1k textures of skyrim bsa suck, that stuff can't look good if replaced

 

 

 

 

 

 

tes6 won't look better than that

after a year or two, with mods, it will look better

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure he just means the mesh model. As in how they are made, not if they clip during animations (regarding weights) or with other objects that aren't part of the model itself.

 

useless to try to guess what he is talking about

 

there's some npc 85 heads that were smooth too much in sculpt mode, without selecting the mouth that was edited

because of that some npc have their mouth get out of the head when they talk

 

if it's about the fps cost of high poly, that urban legend is because a big hit failed with the daz to skyrim tuto, so the problem is high poly (the huge loss of fps was bones problems, or weight problems, or something else)

 

you can't get everything right the first time you try something, it's normal to fail

 

 

old people were removed from skinnaked, like argonian and khajit, will take care of them later

a few clipping here and there because i thougth it was the femalebody_1 nif i use in that nif, was expecting that

but what's the problem with that belted tunic?

wops _0 still have hdt

it's something between the hat and hairs, whatever it is

 

male limbs?

nothing strange, 32 for the outfit, 44 for body, 47 for the limbs

that body is in the armor as intended

euh.... the male world model is also load on that female orc, not as intended (will give sbp 45,46,47 to female armor if don't understand why the game load that on females)

 

 

 

 

 

[Wandering Starspawn]

By planes I was just referring to the 2D flat nature of the vanilla teeth. Because they have so few polys I've seen them clip even on vanilla NPCs. This 2D style of teeth is very economical but it would be vastly better if it were smoothed out just a bit. All fine detail could be done with normal maps.

 

I'm worried about clipping due to bad experiences with Citrus head which seemed to have mesh smoothing applied haphazardly with no attempt to maintain the volume of the original mesh and so it had plethora of issues with clipping that I had to fix by hand with every new character. Facial animation and lips as they interact with the interior mouth within seem to have a very fine margin of error for clipping.

 

[NightroModzz]

By planes I was just referring to the 2D flat nature of the vanilla teeth. Because they have so few polys I've seen them clip even on vanilla NPCs. This 2D style of teeth is very economical but it would be vastly better if it were smoothed out just a bit. All fine detail could be done with normal maps.

 

I'm worried about clipping due to bad experiences with Citrus head which seemed to have mesh smoothing applied haphazardly with no attempt to maintain the volume of the original mesh and so it had plethora of issues with clipping that I had to fix by hand with every new character. Facial animation and lips as they interact with the interior mouth within seem to have a very fine margin of error for clipping.

 

Whenever I work on a head or head part, I make sure to match the seams of other meshes that would be in contact. But in this case I prioritize the Citrus head over the vanilla one. In my mod "Detailed Khajiit Heads," there is clipping and edited both head and mouth. Both were edited to fit, but I guess the placement in NifSkope messed up the alignment. So now only editing and improving the heads which should fix that issue.

 

As for the human heads, will only be editing an earless one for custom mesh ears for some races mods. If I don't release my custom mouth mesh, I will surely edit the seams to match the vanilla one. Not so much clipping as there are huge gaps in the seams though.

 

If you edit the mesh once in a modeling program or maybe export the one you edited in Skyrim, there is a way to copy the shape to the default mod's NIF and would edit all it's tri files In BodySlide&(or)OutfitStudio. Then you could turn that into it's own mod. I don't do that myself, but someone does that for me with my head or related edits.

[yatol]

 

 

I'm worried about clipping due to bad experiences with Citrus head which seemed to have mesh smoothing applied haphazardly with no attempt to maintain the volume of the original mesh and so it had plethora of issues with clipping that I had to fix by hand with every new character. Facial animation and lips as they interact with the interior mouth within seem to have a very fine margin of error for clipping.

 

 

no idea what there is on that screen

no idea what you are talking about anyway, citrus is just a subdivide of femalehead.nif

and number of verticles have nothing to do with clipping

 

here's the cme save 2 of my avatar on citrus

converted by bodychange, there was no ece to citrus tuto

 

it won't look the same if you have pick eye 37, and there's less than 37 eyes for citrus

if you had mess with slider x, and citrus doesn't support slider x

 

there's no clipping on my char and i have 4 mouths

 

 

 

 

i know, it's black in there

daz original texture don't look much better

 

 

[NightroModzz]

 

 

 

I'm worried about clipping due to bad experiences with Citrus head which seemed to have mesh smoothing applied haphazardly with no attempt to maintain the volume of the original mesh and so it had plethora of issues with clipping that I had to fix by hand with every new character. Facial animation and lips as they interact with the interior mouth within seem to have a very fine margin of error for clipping.

 

 

no idea what there is on that screen

no idea what you are talking about anyway, citrus is just a subdivide of femalehead.nif

and number of verticles have nothing to do with clipping

Subdividing a mesh usually has an auto smooth feature enabled to prevent blocky-ness or evenly align each poly. This can change the volume which will in turn, mess up the seams if not manually fixed. In relation which is why ZBrush has projection features in it's SubTool pallet. Just subdividing alone can cause issues with compatibility. Clipping or seam gaps may not be visible in-game because normal maps help prevent that, but if you look at them in a modeling program, it will be a totally different story. Also... yep, vanilla human mouths sure have a nice black void.

[yatol]

 

Subdividing a mesh usually has an auto smooth feature enabled to prevent blocky-ness or evenly align each poly. This can change the volume which will in turn, mess up the seams if not manually fixed.

 

it's not a feature, subdividing, it's adding a verticle between verticle x y z and verticle x1 y1 z1

result is a little bigger between those 2 verticles, it no longer go directly from x y z to x1 y1 z1, there's x0.5 y0.5 z0.5 now

 

here's an easy test anyone can do to check the "huge" performance cost of high poly

 

 

 

this is qasmoke, full load order

this is qasmoke, only skyrim.esm, with skyrim mesh bsa (and only that)

oh, there's a difference on performance if you delete all the crap bethesda left in that esm

 

if i placeatme all solitude females

lose more than 20 fps loss (was cap at 60 fps)

the same with unmodded skyrim

12 fps loss

 

but in that fps difference, there's

-5mb of textures for each different hair

-lisette have dizona limbs on her outfit for some reason (while malebody.dds... it's purple, can't miss it if an armor mod need a conversion that way)

-vanilla child dress is 1k,  what the one on the table wear have bigger textures

-immersive armor or requiem or whatever that replace some of those outfits by something else

and that's probably most of it, a few hundred more mb of texture vs a few dozen more mb of meshes (and a few more bones for tbbp)

 

 

[NightroModzz]

 

 

Subdividing a mesh usually has an auto smooth feature enabled to prevent blocky-ness or evenly align each poly. This can change the volume which will in turn, mess up the seams if not manually fixed.

 

it's not a feature, subdividing, it's adding a verticle between verticle x y z and verticle x1 y1 z1

result is a little bigger between those 2 verticles, it no longer go directly from x y z to x1 y1 z1, there's x0.5 y0.5 z0.5 now

 

here's an easy test anyone can do to check the "huge" performance cost of high poly

 

 

 

this is qasmoke, full load order

this is qasmoke, only skyrim.esm, with skyrim mesh bsa (and only that)

oh, there's a difference on performance if you delete all the crap bethesda left in that esm

 

if i placeatme all solitude females

lose more than 20 fps loss (was cap at 60 fps)

the same with unmodded skyrim

12 fps loss

 

but in that fps difference, there's

-5mb of textures for each different hair

-lisette have dizona limbs on her outfit for some reason (while malebody.dds... it's purple, can't miss it if an armor mod need a conversion that way)

-vanilla child dress is 1k,  what the one on the table wear have bigger textures

-immersive armor or requiem or whatever that replace some of those outfits by something else

and that's probably most of it, a few hundred more mb of texture vs a few dozen more mb of meshes (and a few more bones for tbbp)

 

 

 

I think you fail to understand me. And I'm going to assume that English isn't your first language based on previous posts. So I don't think we are on the same topic and not sure if we have even been on the same topic.

 

1) I'm not arguing with you about high poly performance cost. Don't know were you got that idea from. 

 

2) yes, smoothing is a feature of it's own and as part of the subdividing process. In Zbrush I can disable auto smoothing. This results in it being divided, but the geometry being exactly the same. With it on, it creates an even disbursement of poly in a smoothed out manner. Also, if the mesh didn't have a high amount of poly to begin with, there would be a very noticeable difference and become more thinned out.

 

All I did was divide it once, can you tell the difference and see how only subdividing can cause issues and mismatches with other meshes? Note that I work with meshes very often and subdivide very often.

 

 

Default - look at poly count above.

Auto Smooth (Subdivide Smooth Modifier: a feature of subdividing) disabled. Still blocky but with a higher poly count.

Enabled and compared with default. Notice the ruined seams and change in dimensional space. This would mean that you would have to realign seams to other related meshes such as the mouth and body to fix gaps. Something I have to fix very often when working with Citrus heads.

 

 

[yatol]

 

All I did was divide it once, can you tell the difference and see how only subdividing can cause issues and mismatches with other meshes? Note that I work with meshes very often and subdivide very often.

 

no idea what you have click on, but tha's not a subdivide

 

 

now there's 2

 

subdivide (not fractal, smooth, knife or whatever, just subdivide)

only difference between original and subdivide, subdivide have more verticles

 

 

 

blabla about performance it's for those ones that believe the crap about high poly

they just believe what a big hit said, a big hit that had a huge fps drop because he failed to convert something right

 

he's not the only one, hairs mods suck

 

 

those meshes are the same, for now

 

 

one face for that side, another one for that one, doubles were removed randomly

 

only difference someone can see between those meshes, it's that

maybe there's something else to do to get the texture blending right on the mesh without double

putting stuff for 3d films in games may look nice, but they don't care about performance for 3d films

 

 

[NightroModzz]

 

 

All I did was divide it once, can you tell the difference and see how only subdividing can cause issues and mismatches with other meshes? Note that I work with meshes very often and subdivide very often.

 

no idea what you have click on, but tha's not a subdivide

 

 

now there's 2

 

subdivide (not fractal, smooth, knife or whatever, just subdivide)

only difference between original and subdivide, subdivide have more verticles

 

 

 

blabla about performance it's for those ones that believe the crap about high poly

they just believe what a big hit said, a big hit that had a huge fps drop because he failed to convert something right

 

he's not the only one, hairs mods suck

 

 

those meshes are the same, for now

 

 

one face for that side, another one for that one, doubles were removed randomly

 

only difference someone can see between those meshes, it's that

maybe there's something else to do to get the texture blending right on the mesh without double

putting stuff for 3d films in games may look nice, but they don't care about performance for 3d films

 

 

 

You shouldn't speak so soon. It is as clear as day. Holding the mouse over the divide button, it clearly says "Subdivide ctrl+D." It's just a difference in functionality between different programs is all. Also, you don't notice as much stuff in Blender vs ZBrush (the professional modeling program). If you are referring to the third picture, it was obviously 2 separate meshes, both half hidden comparing seam and width changes caused by just subdividing once on the left with no fixes, to the original on the right. Like I said, I model very often and you don't need try and teach me stuff or bring up random extra stuff like hair. I'll continue with ZBrush and Maya, not Blender. A lot of stuff has different names. 

 

Much better modeling UI

 

 

 

Also yes, I do notice the overlapping of the divided and undivided mesh, but the mesh wasn't a low enough poly to begin with for the thinning out to have much effect. But then again, the one with the vertice grid looks like the low poly and the grey looks like high poly. Can't tell with that pic and since they both don't show a grid.Blender has a crappy way of showing a visible not active for edit meshes. Overall, Blender just sucks when it comes to paying attention to detail. The low poly clothes looks way too high for comparison against Skyrim heads.

 

If you are going to compare anything, compare it with something similar with a similar poly count and not already fairly high poly(low poly) clothes with it's shape in mind.  The clothes are already fairly smooth too without having to worry about any complicated features. The Skyrim head meshes are free for grabs, and that is what you should be using. Something we can both get our hands on for easy comparison. Currently it just seems like your comparisons are random without keeping certain stuff in mind. I suggest just bringing in the Citrus heads and default mouth meshes and compare those yourself. Smooth, but seams don't match. And when it comes to body parts, equal verticies matter.

 

Yes, poly count does have a performance impact, but not as much as textures and depends on the engine. Also, if those clothes are from an existing mod, it's not very well thought out and is a waist of polygon draw calls. That mesh can be used for view in the Skyrim menu, but when wearing, should not be double sided. The poly count can easily be halved and you would never see the inside anyways.

 

As mentioned before, The issue with really low poly meshes and dividing. I can fix that issue by dividing with auto smooth disabled, mask seams/borders, then Deformation>Polish or Smooth. Or manually add loops in ZBrush or Maya.

[yatol]

 

Also, if those clothes are from an existing mod, it's not very well thought out and is a waist of polygon draw calls.

 

 

a 4k texture it's 10 mb

don't care about my 20 mb nifs

have delete the clothes between armor piece and body

there's a gap between the armor piece and body

don't feel like messing with the mesh just to armor pieces closer to the body

 

there's that kind of meshe too

the hand protection need his double side, like the thing on the arm, and the plastron (the shoulder weights on that metal piece, it's because i am lazy, it shouldn't move when the shoulder move)

 

they can no longer whine about my crap anyway^^

[NightroModzz]

 

 

Also, if those clothes are from an existing mod, it's not very well thought out and is a waist of polygon draw calls.

 

 

a 4k texture it's 10 mb

don't care about my 20 mb nifs

 

 

have delete the clothes between armor piece and body

there's a gap between the armor piece and body

don't feel like messing with the mesh just to armor pieces closer to the body

 

there's that kind of meshe too

 

 

the hand protection need his double side, like the thing on the arm, and the plastron (the shoulder weights on that metal piece, it's because i am lazy, it shouldn't move when the shoulder move)

 

they can no longer whine about my crap anyway^^

Okay, got some sleep. Was up late and frustrated because it feels like I'm having a conversation with someone who half speaks English and half uses Google translate to figure things out. most of the time it doesn't feel like we are on the same page, you add all this extra random stuff and I don't know why. So sorry and please try and stay on a single topic. However, this is the last I will post of it.

 

1) Don't care about the memory space difference between Nifs and textures. "polygon draw calls" not texture load times. Plus, Nifs can hold more than just one mesh data anyways, such as tri files, facegen, skeleton, etc. Screw Skyrim, I'm only talking about mesh modeling.

 

2)  Depends on the clothes or armor. And you don't have to get rid of the entirety of the inner doubled side. Just the areas you know won't be visible. It's a common practice to find ways to remove unneeded verts and the Unreal Engine devs tell you this multiple times during tutorials as that is the engine I've been learning to work with.

 

3) I'm gonna try and make this as simple as I can just in case you didn't understand, and was the only thing I was talking about.

 

Imagine the head and mouth mesh in a modeling program (not the game). the mesh seams between the head and mouth match perfectly, but the lack of poly makes it look kind of blocky. Now I subdivide the head and now it has more poly. The seams on the head between the mouth become more rounded since it has more poly and the seam also separated a bit because of this and the auto smoothing to achieve this new roundness. Oh no! Now I have to fix the gaps and also hope there aren't any oddities in the animation tri files because of the extra verts. Some of the tri files will likely need editing as well.

 

This is the issue with subdividing (especially really low poly meshes with complicated curves) and something that was never fixed in the Citrus heads that I work a lot with. Stuff like clothes usually don't have similar issues like that.

[yatol]

doubt i am the only one that don't know about those tutos from the unreal engine devs (that's skyrim engine i suppose?)

maybe i could have one or two more fps by wasting hours to optimise my char outfits, it's not worth it, i don't care

 

it's another story for npcs

if you waste 0.5 npc per npc, when there's 20 npcs it become 10 fps

problem is seeing you are wasting fps on those npcs

 

 

40 13ba4 from npc85, head nif is 2.4 mb

now it's 40 13ba4 with a head nif that is 150 kb

fps fluctate more with those npcs moving around, than with losing 9000*2 verticles

 

40 13bb8, head nif is 1mb

bigger fps lost, and that's not because of the stormcloak armor or the 200 kb boots

without brows, mouth, eyes, hairline... shadow casting

it's a little better, but irileth still eat more fps than 13ba4

packages? nord eyes on elves? more idles? what about that armor?

4/40 =0.1, didn't removed the armor texture fps cost but that's not much

0.1 it's a lot for a vanilla armor, have some 20mb nifs that eat 0.2-0.3 fps (with the textures it's 0.5-2 fps and i don't care, only interior npcs can have that)

in outfitter it fit, but when you copy paste the result in the body nif, it no longer fit

that's because bodyslide didn't use the reference bones, but its bones, that aren't the same

 

if you leave the body in the armor, you have a deformed body with the deformed armor, you won't see there's a problem

maybe some black point on the neck because the deformed body no longer fit the head

you also won't see the performance cost, armor now eat 0.1 fps instead of don't know, that's nothing

but when there's a lot of npcs around the nothing is no longer nothing

 

because of that i don't use bodyslide, no need to make things worse

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NightroModzz]

doubt i am the only one that don't know about those tutos from the unreal engine devs (that's skyrim engine i suppose?)

maybe i could have one or two more fps by wasting hours to optimise my char outfits, it's not worth it, i don't care

 

it's another story for npcs

if you waste 0.5 npc per npc, when there's 20 npcs it become 10 fps

problem is seeing you are wasting fps on those npcs

 

 

40 13ba4 from npc85, head nif is 2.4 mb

now it's 40 13ba4 with a head nif that is 150 kb

fps fluctate more with those npcs moving around, than with losing 9000*2 verticles

 

40 13bb8, head nif is 1mb

bigger fps lost, and that's not because of the stormcloak armor or the 200 kb boots

without brows, mouth, eyes, hairline... shadow casting

it's a little better, but irileth still eat more fps than 13ba4

packages? nord eyes on elves? more idles? what about that armor?

4/40 =0.1, didn't removed the armor texture fps cost but that's not much

0.1 it's a lot for a vanilla armor, have some 20mb nifs that eat 0.2-0.3 fps (with the textures it's 0.5-2 fps and i don't care, only interior npcs can have that)

in outfitter it fit, but when you copy paste the result in the body nif, it no longer fit

that's because bodyslide didn't use the reference bones, but its bones, that aren't the same

 

if you leave the body in the armor, you have a deformed body with the deformed armor, you won't see there's a problem

maybe some black point on the neck because the deformed body no longer fit the head

you also won't see the performance cost, armor now eat 0.1 fps instead of don't know, that's nothing

but when there's a lot of npcs around the nothing is no longer nothing

 

because of that i don't use bodyslide, no need to make things worse

 

 

I guess for Skyrim or BodySlide, you need double sided areas for the breasts if you use a body with nips. But don't think it can't be fixed. I also suggest leaving 1 inch worth of the double sided mesh along edges in.

 

No, the Unreal Engine was not used for Skyrim, but currently much better. Yet devs still suggest to save on draw calls (referring to polygons). Say you have a 100k limit on a character. If you waist polygons on fully double sided clothes/armor, it only limits the number you can add to the character. So why not get rid of what you can't see? Those set limits were made for optimization in the first place and so it can function well on a variety of computers.

 

It depends on the nature of the game and Skyrim does have a decent amount of NPCs. Plus there are popular mods that add more NPCs to make Skyrim more lively. Maybe it's because Skyrim is buggy and not fixed like SSE, but even I felt the heat in some areas with the mod SMIM (full). For a modder, it may not be all that important because you just see it as one optional clothes/armor mod, but for game devs it is really important. And in the end Skyrim is a game. However, whether you want to do it or think it's worth the trouble with Skyrim's available moding tools is up to you.

[yatol]

 

Yet devs still suggest to save on draw calls (referring to polygons). Say you have a 100k limit on a character. If you waist polygons on fully double sided clothes/armor, it only limits the number you can add to the character. So why not get rid of what you can't see? Those set limits were made for optimization in the first place and so it can function well on a variety of computers.

 

draw call? there's that in enb

 

bet number of triangles have double because of the hairs

don't look like their number have a huge impact on fps

 

it's more than 700 k triangles when i equip enchantress, nif is 30 mb

that one only eat 0.5 fps (nif is bigger than the textures, they suck, so i use 2 1k seamless textures, with uv map scale 8, you can fov 20 the laces)

 

and why look only at npc?

 

 

tg

teofis

tll

4 fps just for lods?

 

that tree was a nice pick

water is still a huge performance problem

better not get in a forest of that

 

 

 

but the biggest fps waste, it's the enb

-40% just to enable it, -60% with all effects

because skyrim is still doing that stuff, enb just replace it, so you are doing that in double

[NightroModzz]

 

 

 

and why look only at npc?

 

 

tg

teofis

tll

4 fps just for lods?

 

that tree was a nice pick

water is still a huge performance problem

better not get in a forest of that

 

 

 

but the biggest fps waste, it's the enb

-40% just to enable it, -60% with all effects

because skyrim is still doing that stuff, enb just replace it, so you are doing that in double

This is this and that is that. I only mentioned NPCs because clothes/armor is used with NPCs/PC. So NPCs became the main example. Isn't that obvious? Of course everything, especially those not officially made (mods) for Skyrim can use the optimization. Plus what Skyrim lacks the most and is the most important is LODs and level distant based LODs. Especially for the NPCs. Of course Some mods add LODs for certain meshes.

 

So yeah, want to try stacking NPCs in those outside areas? Your GPU won't like it very much and already doesn't. In doors and closed spaces are easier to run. But like I said, it all adds up which is why NPCs aren't the only ones to consider and limits should be set.

 

Also, water is always a performance problem compared to other stuff, and need to find good ways to optimize it. Even in UE4. The best way to optimize it is to get rid of some of the transparency and make the water still. But that's unrealistic and the Skyrim engine also has some limitations when it comes to water.

[yatol]

 

Also, water is always a performance problem compared to other stuff, and need to find good ways to optimize it. Even in UE4. The best way to optimize it is to get rid of some of the transparency and make the water still. But that's unrealistic and the Skyrim engine also has some limitations when it comes to water.

 

 

your fps don't drop like that when you swim near winterhold

 

 

go tfc around whiterun or riverwood, the water mesh is much bigger than the river

that huge water meshe could be replaced by a few smaller meshes

 

difference between river and ocean? there's no waterfall in oceans

it's that that sunk fps, to render the river thought the waterfalls (it's the same with those trees), and there's smaller waterfalls between them

you often go in the waterfall to look at your feets? there's not much use for that river behind the waterfall

 

above, you can't swim under that river, you can't get behind the waterfall either

it have your double side (there you can't see it if there's no river behind)

it could be removed, tws remove water meshes

you flip face and save as water1024under (no idea how to remove double side from those bswater something)

you copy paste as new record those water1024, only the ones where you can swim (that's the time consuming part)

the thing that load underwater imagespace when you swim, you add tws to it (bye bye water meshes when yu swim, but not your new ones, waterunder)

how to find tws to copy paste it and make twsunder? no idea

[NightroModzz]

 

 

Also, water is always a performance problem compared to other stuff, and need to find good ways to optimize it. Even in UE4. The best way to optimize it is to get rid of some of the transparency and make the water still. But that's unrealistic and the Skyrim engine also has some limitations when it comes to water

your fps don't drop like that when you swim near winterhold

 

go tfc around whiterun or riverwood, the water mesh is much bigger than the river

that huge water meshe could be replaced by a few smaller meshes

 

difference between river and ocean? there's no waterfall in oceans

it's that that sunk fps, to render the river thought the waterfalls (it's the same with those trees), and there's smaller waterfalls between them

you often go in the waterfall to look at your feets? there's not much use for that river behind the waterfall

 

above, you can't swim under that river, you can't get behind the waterfall either

it have your double side (there you can't see it if there's no river behind)

it could be removed, tws remove water meshes

you flip face and save as water1024under (no idea how to remove double side from those bswater something)

you copy paste as new record those water1024, only the ones where you can swim (that's the time consuming part)

the thing that load underwater imagespace when you swim, you add tws to it (bye bye water meshes when yu swim, but not your new ones, waterunder)

how to find tws to copy paste it and make twsunder? no idea

Okay guy, never said any water areas didn't need optimization on a mesh scale or any other way. All I did was mention how to optimize the overall material function. It still remains fact that water in any game is performance heavy. Not sure what your argument is, but if it is towards when I said limitations of the Skyrim engine, it is true. If it wasn't an issue, there would be better water mods with more features.

 

No fps loss? Do you have a high frame rate monitor without an fps cap set to properly test it and keep making these claims? If you don't, you can't just say no fps loss when talking about performance testing. As far as I know, it's caped at 70 fps based on previous posts, which is an odd number to cap it at.

 

As much as I'd love keep talking about performance and how to optimize every little thing you bring up, Let's just end it here. If that's what you want to talk about, then start another thread so we can keep this on topic, in relation to the title of the thread.

[yatol]

 

As far as I know, it's caped at 70 fps based on previous posts, which is an odd number to cap it at.

 

it's caped at 45 in the enb menu...

 

and those screens it's just for some to put some of the fix for bethesda mess in their mods

skyrim modding is so superior there's no site for the ones that do stuff, to check they are doing it right, so many fail

and if you have to fix that on mods too...

 

some use the bikini armors here?

 

 

dizona mesh had the same problem, probably because of vanilla mesh

vertex color to yes for the armor

with vertex color to no

no visual difference, that armor have a _n, not a _msn with some green red blue, vertex color are useless with _n

 

 

 

[NightroModzz]

Just an update to let anyone know that a low poly mouth mesh has been made, but not yet Skyrim ready.

 

The post is here on page 6, post #126.

[gm207]

Is this mod still a potential? and is there any plans to see lip action in oral sex such as lips wrapping perfectly around SOS

[NightroModzz]

14 minutes ago, gm207 said:

Is this mod still a potential? and is there any plans to see lip action in oral sex such as lips wrapping perfectly around SOS

Is it still a potential? Yes. I tweaked it further from the posted picture, and will be making a lower ploy version sometime soon. Problem is, the mesh is a good deal different from the Skyrim version, so will require new UVs and textures.

 

As for SOS, I don't deal with HDT and SMP. Creating three dozen tri-files is a lot of work on top of creating the mesh, UVs, and textures. I'm also not willing to learn a buggy outdated version of 3DS Max to do so.

[gm207]

1 hour ago, NightroModzz said:

Is it still a potential? Yes. I tweaked it further from the posted picture, and will be making a lower ploy version sometime soon. Problem is, the mesh is a good deal different from the Skyrim version, so will require new UVs and textures.

 

As for SOS, I don't deal with HDT and SMP. Creating three dozen tri-files is a lot of work on top of creating the mesh, UVs, and textures. I'm also not willing to learn a buggy outdated version of 3DS Max to do so.

So what is this mod exactly, just tongue and bigger mouth opening? 

[NightroModzz]

2 hours ago, gm207 said:

So what is this mod exactly, just tongue and bigger mouth opening? 

I have no Idea what you mean by "bigger mouth opening."

 

The vanilla mouth and current mouth mod meshes are four seperet sets of geometry; an inner circle with a cut for the mouth opening, a tongue, gums, and teeth.

 

Mine is just like how you would see it in reality with 2 seperate sets of geometry. Teeth being the second. Uvula, tonsils, and all. Like the Daz Stodio mouth mesh, accept a lot better. In short, a replacer (no animations included).