Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Reesewow]

7 hours ago, zupra said:

What i meant is that the follower is whoring out my pc for 50g and then she ends up giving just a footjob. I think the anal animations did work sometimes but not always. It was kinda immersion breaking. There's dialogues and everything between the follower and NPC. "i'm gonna fuck her hard" and then footjob heh. Imo the belt should be removed by the follower i mean who would pay 50g for that ?

 

I quess i could install the DCUL.

Ah, I assumed you were talking about sex events in general (not just the ones triggered by DF). 

 

I think your best solution is simply to disable the "ownership" belt deal entirely in the MCM menu - this is the deal that puts a full chastity belt on your character which your follower will occasionally remove to have sex with you.  The "denial" deal makes much more immersive sense combined with other DF sex events - the belt allows for anal animations, but the whole point of the deal is to have your character get into sex scenes while belted and build up her denial level (which affects the once-a-day dialogue to try to get an orgasm). 

 

I think the plug level 3 deal and the ownership chastity level 3 deal are set up to kinda be conflicting in intent and not designed to compliment each other (why would the follower cover a big chunk of your debt for exclusive use of your PC's pussy when she's selling it to any random NPC on the street for 50g?).  They don't conflict per say, but the dialogue won't make that much sense if you are running both of them at the same time.

[Reesewow]

39 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

There may be some problems with DF's sexlab handling, regarding creatures... I'm not sure it's really handing any creature animations properly, or ever has. DF rarely plays creature animations correctly for me, and possibly has some issues assigning appropriate actors in appropriate slots. Yet I know those animations work for me, as SLAdventures seems to have no troubles with them. Slaverun and Whiterun Brothel also seemed to be fine. However, in DF, horses, particularly horses, simply don't animate.

 

While there could for sure be some possible issues I haven't seen, I just wanted to mention that I've not had any issues with creature animations triggering and playing properly in DF up tho this point (which mainly means canine and horse animations).  Assuming you are referring to the stables game in regards to horse animation issues, possibly there could be some issues relating to how the mod detects a nearby horse in your load order (since I know that game has been sensitive to horse mods in the past).

 

Of course, I could also be lucky, but I've run through the creature-enabled Jarl game a few times, the horse game many times in the past, and have tested the newer creature enabled content added recently without issue.

 

Spoiler

New content being the very high level denial deal outcome.

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

Assuming you are referring to the stables game in regards to horse animation issues, possibly there could be some issues relating to how the mod detects a nearby horse in your load order (since I know that game has been sensitive to horse mods in the past).

I don't use any horse mods. At all. Unless you count MNC. And it's not just the DF pony game. It also happens when DF triggers "rapes" (e.g. enslavement whoring) when there are horses nearby.

 

Pretty much every time DF triggers a horse sex scene, the first one doesn't animate. The second one does. The third one doesn't, and so on.

 

Whereas, take out DF, put in Slaverun (a much heavier scripting load) and horse animation works every single time without fail.

 

 

A perusal of the source code of the two respective mods gives a clue as to where the differences (and likely cause of the problems) lie. I'll leave that to interested parties to investigate further.

 

I know not everyone has this. Maybe it's specific to a particular version of CF/MNC, which still get updated a lot.

 

Spoiler

 

Just like ... and this is a different issue ... not everyone has the  (excessive rapid) "bouncing" from crawling either, which can also impact sex scenes. I think everyone sees a bit of bounce now and again, when they are on an IK threshold, or shifting back and forth over some collision hump (popping up onto the bar in an inn for example) but with DF crawling, I can see this when there's nothing around to cause it, but don't see it in SD+.

 

It might have something to do with physics (outside chance) which people often have set up differently, even if they have the same mods. Or it might be new to the latest-and-greatest FNIS. Or... Could be a lot of things. I can live with it, it's just ... relevant ... to a discussion of animation issues, that's all.

 

The bounce I'm describing here is where the character pops up and down between being on the ground and being in the air, at about waist height. This happens rapidly (though not every frame), and with a slight randomness to it.

 

 

[Lupine00]

In the case where I was losing my DF dialogs entirely in enslavement (which is catastrophic, until you know that there's a completely non-intuitive way to reset it), the responses were either "enslavement is supposed to be hard" or "I don't get that problem".

 

But there was a clear and distinct cause, that had nothing to do with what mods were loaded. In this case what animations were registered.

DF never listed the registration of those animations as a requirement, or even hinted that they were necessary.

 

DF could have played those animations without registration, and as it relies on them, it could (possibly) have arranged to include them.

 

 

But my point here, is that just because somebody has a problem with a mod, and you don't, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason for it.

 

I'm never happy with what amounts to "uh, because Skyrim," or "it's just voodoo."

 

It may have nothing to do a game being misconfigured in some way, or mods mis-sorted, or their conflicts badly merged...

(And realistically, LOOT gets some stuff seriously wrong).

May well not even be a mod bug, or not the mod that seems to be the cause. Quite likely this is not an issue caused by DF, but simply revealed by it.

 

 

 

But if we don't dig into these things, the answers don't show up. I only found the answer to the enslavement dialog issue by wasting evening and evening taking mods in and out and screwing around with settings trying to figure out what caused it. In the end, I would never have found the cause if I hadn't looked at the source.

 

 

So, I'm still looking for clues on horse animations, and still looking for clues on the bounce thing. Chances are most people don't have those issues.

 

Am I unusual in running Zaz 8 plus, or latest FNIS? Or do people without these issues have both?

[Lupine00]

On the topic of Tera Armors in DF ... here is a poverty patch for Tera Armors UNP by asianboy345.

 

This is only for the version linked from Deadly Wenches, nexus ID 25846 (full title: TERA Armors Collection for Skyrim - Male and UNP female).

 

There are no textures, meshes, or even a standalone ESP here. This ESP simply patches the existing ESP to have different values for the prices, so it's tiny, and shouldn't infringe on anything. It will not work with any of the numerous other Tera armor releases.

 

TeraArmorsCheaper.7z

 

Load immediately after the original TERAArmors.esp

 

It's not really possible to be fully balanced with the existing stats, as they are a bit quirky to start with, to put it delicately. There were a lot of values to change, and it took an hour or two. Probably more time than I wanted to spend.

 

If your favourite armor didn't get the value you want, you can always edit just that one.

 

The original ESP attempts to assign non-zero armor values to clothing (I fixed this, though it has no actual impact), has boots that routinely weigh less than gauntlets, and light armors that stack up absurdly well against heavy in terms of protection.

 

My goal was simply to bring the value-per-weight under control for all of these items, and to ensure the higher level sets aren't way behind vanilla of a similar level in terms of gold per weight value. A handful of the fancier items, I didn't chance prices on at all, and left them as is ... but most items are a lot less valuable. Ironically, one or two items, mainly gauntlets got more valuable, because they were so heavy to begin with.

 

I don't think the original creator spent a lot of time studying the CK values and balancing them well against vanilla items, or if they did, they didn't understand the mechanics, particularly armor-capping. 

 

Of course, because everything sells for less, you can now buy them for less too, if you have a patch that puts them on vendors. Some of the good light armors are a bit of a bargain in that respect. However, as most of them also drop like confetti if you're using Deadly Wenches and the levelled list patch, that shouldn't have much impact. I doubt you'd ever have to buy one. The situation where you buy one of them is such an edge case it's not worth considering.

 

I'm using this with Scarcity and iNeed at the moment, and with DF inn prices, cash is pretty tight.

 

I've also got a DF poverty patch for the Hateful Wenches gear, that also includes Cassandra Frost Witch gear with HDT High Heels replaced with NiOverride (nobody seems to publish such a conversion) ... but that has meshes (had to edit the NIFs), and depends on my merge patch of all the varied gears required to use the specially geared Hateful wenches, so I can't put the poverty patch part up by itself. If anyone really wants it, PM me.

[qtpie]

do you need a new save when updating from 1.706 to 1.710?

[Reesewow]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

But if we don't dig into these things, the answers don't show up. I only found the answer to the enslavement dialog issue by wasting evening and evening taking mods in and out and screwing around with settings trying to figure out what caused it. In the end, I would never have found the cause if I hadn't looked at the source.

 

So, I'm still looking for clues on horse animations, and still looking for clues on the bounce thing. Chances are most people don't have those issues.

 

Am I unusual in running Zaz 8 plus, or latest FNIS? Or do people without these issues have both?

For sure, altho unfortunately for intermittent issues sometimes the only ones who really can do the digging are those that are experiencing the issue.  My only purpose in mentioning I don't have any noticeable issues with creatures in the events I've tested is to provide additional details on the subject - namely that it possibly isn't a issue that affects all users, or it may be an issue contained to game states I don't play in (enslavement).

 

This doesn't mean that I don't think the issue can/should be fixed, just that it may not be something Lozeak can easily reproduce and bugfix on his end if his game state is similar to mine.  In which case someone else doing some deep diving may be the best/fastest solution (either someone with the issue occurring or someone with very good understanding of Sexlab's more arcane functions and quirks).

 

Similarly I wasn't able to easily reproduce the "bounce" you describe - just before writing this post I did a test of the mod by manually equipping the town collar, then causing the stable game to be triggered while wearing it.  The only pop-up I noticed during the game scenes was the very minor up-down motion of NIO's high heel effect being temporarily cleared by Sexlab, and the character standing up while the horse approached. 

 

The standing up was the most obvious quirk, but that is very explainable - the crawling animation used by DF (sourced from the open-use animation on the Nexus) does not have animations for turning on the spot, so those animations are still the regular standing turn animations and happen when the horse approaches and the character is turning to track it.  When I worked on the package of crawl AA's I opted to only use the animations provided by the original replacer - it would certainly be possible to replace a few more animations like sprinting and turning, altho I'm not sure how good the results would look.

 

One other possible source of the bounce issue I could think of are HDT High Heels being installed (I don't have that in my load order at all).  Unfortunately, any issues with the crawl animation are probably outside of Lozeak's skill set - the animation files are straight from the source mod and completely unchanged from the original - the only difference being that they have been renamed and are being called as AA's instead of manually replacing the walk animations.  It would be cool if an animation guru made a pass over the files to look for possible tweaks or improvements tho.

 

Worth noting - I have not tested enslaved mode in many many patches.  Possibly the issues you are describing are more centralized around scenes triggered during enslavement and/or while crawling, rather than including the scenes I've tested (deals and non-enslavement games). 

[Lupine00]

16 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

When I worked on the package of crawl AA's I opted to only use the animation's provided by the original replacer - it would certainly be possible to replace a few more animations like sprinting and turning, altho I'm not sure how good the results would look.

I have a vague suspicion that SD+ uses the kneeling position as a turn animation, so it's less weird. In that case, if you're crawling, you probably have kneel as your default idle position.

 

16 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

One other possible source of the bounce issue I could think of are HDT High Heels being installed

I think you can rule that one out. I definitely don't have it, but I doubt it could respond fast enough to create the problem anyway.

 

 

The "bounce" problem isn't the "standing" you mention, though you're right in that crawl does make that behaviour more apparent, and it's not great.

 

It is ... oddly enough that you mention high-heels, more like a situation where a massive NiOverride offset is popping on and off... Or like two mods fighting each other to set the player's vertical position. I think the root cause is a SexLab thing, and DF only seems to run across it when crawling, so there likely is some connection to idles and turns. Could be that the stand animation has different IK to the crawl, and that can result in the bounce, if there's a nearby collision object?

 

That would be a plausible explanation, if it wasn't less apparent in SD+. Maybe the kneel position is masking it, and has collision/IK much more like the crawl than stand does?

 

Making turn animations is always a problem for artists and programmer's alike. It's always tricky. Should the turn occur then, rotate the facing? Should the facing change occur, then play the animation? Or, ideally, the animation and the underlying facing change should occur simultaneously. Many old engines could not support this latter scenario, and in a lot of anim-tag driven engines, turning animations required the animator to add a tag for every 'frame' with the correct underlying facing change. This then becomes a PITA for the programmer who wants to speed the turn up, or slow it down, because now the animation has to be speed controlled. Anyway. Off point there. Skyrim has its own way of handling this, and turns aren't driven off animations at all, animations are just decorations for the underlying turn, where some code just sets an actor facing and hopes it looks ok.

[Lady Victoria]

I”m a problem when I am enslaved I am told to wear something I do not have or was never given and my dept adds up. I’m also having a problem now that when I am put in shackles I get clipping on my feet? As well as I’m never released from restraints in dungeons. So I am constantly bound no matter where I am. Can someone help me out on what I should do. Any help will be very appreciated. Thanks!

[HexBolt8]

5 hours ago, Lady Victoria said:

I”m a problem when I am enslaved I am told to wear something I do not have or was never given and my dept adds up. I’m also having a problem now that when I am put in shackles I get clipping on my feet? As well as I’m never released from restraints in dungeons. So I am constantly bound no matter where I am. Can someone help me out on what I should do. Any help will be very appreciated. Thanks!

In most instances the mod only cares if you wear the correct type of item, so if you've lost or somehow did not receive one, you can add one with the console and equip it.  For example, for the stage 1 plug deal you can use any anal plug.

 

In a dungeon (the cell must have the LocTypeDungeon keyword) you should have the dialogue option with your follower, "Master, please can you remove my mittens and boots?"

[Lady Victoria]

33 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

In most instances the mod only cares if you wear the correct type of item, so if you've lost or somehow did not receive one, you can add one with the console and equip it.  For example, for the stage 1 plug deal you can use any anal plug.

 

In a dungeon (the cell must have the LocTypeDungeom keyword) you should have the dialogue option with your follower, "Master, please can you remove my mittens and boots?"

Ok but how can I go about getting the console command’s needed? For example he wants me to wear the corset. Do I just type in corset in the commands? Or is there specific words I need to type for each item? Also I just remembered now he also keeps saying you need to wear a certain item i’m already wearing and then my dept to him keeps going up? Grrr this all gets so frustrating at times. ? But thanks everybody for all my questions that have been answered. You all have been a great help to me ?

[HexBolt8]

45 minutes ago, Lady Victoria said:

Ok but how can I go about getting the console command’s needed? For example he wants me to wear the corset. Do I just type in corset in the commands? Or is there specific words I need to type for each item?

This mod is generally pretty good about giving you the items that you are required to wear.  Check that you have recent versions of the Device Devices mods installed.  You can add the items manually, but it's not fixing the problem.  Are you by chance using a mod that transfers items that you pick up to your follower?  If so, look for the missing items in your follower's inventory. 

 

For the corset, in the console enter "help corset 4" (without the quote marks).  Choose one, note its ID, then enter "player.additem xxxxxxxx 1" where xxxxxxxx is the corset ID.  Then go into your inventory and equip it.

 

45 minutes ago, Lady Victoria said:

Also I just remembered now he also keeps saying you need to wear a certain item i’m already wearing and then my dept to him keeps going up?

It helps to be specific when describing a problem.  Which item? 

 

You also might try starting over.  If you're wearing any locked items, get them removed (or have keys).  Then go to the mod's Debug tab in MCM and click "Reset".  Dismiss your follower, then ask him to follow you again.  The Debug tab has an option to add debt if you want to get in trouble again. 

[Foulcault]

Not sure if this is already a feature but I couldn't find it. Is there a way to mark which followers will and won't charge you? Might be nice to have only one charging while a couple of others are not or maybe even have two or three charging.

[HexBolt8]

10 minutes ago, Foulcault said:

Not sure if this is already a feature but I couldn't find it. Is there a way to mark which followers will and won't charge you? Might be nice to have only one charging while a couple of others are not or maybe even have two or three charging.

No.  The mod supports one follower "master" who has a dialogue line about charging you on behalf of your other retainers.  If you want one particular follower to be the master, dismiss any other followers before starting this mod, wait for the follower's line I hope you don't try to cheat me like other adventurers, then re-invite the other followers. 

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Lady Victoria said:

Ok but how can I go about getting the console command’s needed?

Firstly, google "skyrim console additem", read and understand.

 

Then, to locate specific DD items, you can search using "help" in the console.

 

e.g.

 

help corset

 

Should find various kind of game item that have the word "corset" in the name. Use page up/page down to scroll through the results.

 

Pick one that looks convincingly like a DD corset (the first two digits of the ID number will match the mod-index of DD in your Load Order).

 

Use:

 

player.additem <ID> 1

 

...to add one of the item in question. Where <ID> is the hexadecimal ID you found via help.

 

Hopefully, you didn't add the armor item, but the inventory item; there are two of each DD item.

If you find the item doesn't work correctly, and doesn't have DD functionality, you have the wrong one.

If that is the case, add the other item with the same name and it should be correct one. (Remove the first one via the console: player.removeitem <ID> 1).

If you added the right item first-time, then you're in luck.

 

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, Foulcault said:

Not sure if this is already a feature but I couldn't find it. Is there a way to mark which followers will and won't charge you? Might be nice to have only one charging while a couple of others are not or maybe even have two or three charging.

It would be a nice "luxury feature" to be able to select which one out of multiple followers will be the "master follower", as it's annoying when the "master" is one of the less dominant-seeming followers.

 

Would also be nice to see a list of characters that you have explicitly excluded from devious follower-ness eternally ... mainly to confirm that the feature has worked as expected, but also to keep track in cases where you might have a few.

 

 

On that topic, I've been using that feature a bit, and the "excluded from DF" followers are always ... a bit odd. They don't recruit cleanly into EFF for me, and have to be repaired after recruiting. They sometimes also just wander off and stop following (while still apparently being followers). This oddness even impacts vanilla followers like Lydia.

 

However, it could easily be nothing to do with DF, and could be DH or MME.

No way to know.

However, I don't get such behaviours from "devious" followers.

[Lady Victoria]

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

This mod is generally pretty good about giving you the items that you are required to wear.  Check that you have recent versions of the Device Devices mods installed.  You can add the items manually, but it's not fixing the problem.  Are you by chance using a mod that transfers items that you pick up to your follower?  If so, look for the missing items in your follower's inventory. 

 

For the corset, in the console enter "help corset 4" (without the quote marks).  Choose one, note its ID, then enter "player.additem xxxxxxxx 1" where xxxxxxxx is the corset ID.  Then go into your inventory and equip it.

 

It helps to be specific when describing a problem.  Which item? 

 

You also might try starting over.  If you're wearing any locked items, get them removed (or have keys).  Then go to the mod's Debug tab in MCM and click "Reset".  Dismiss your follower, then ask him to follow you again.  The Debug tab has an option to add debt if you want to get in trouble again. 

The specific item was actually the corset. And  I did  try to start over and ran into the same problem.  Unfortunately it also was not in his inventory as well.  But will try what you suggested. Thank you

[Lady Victoria]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Firstly, google "skyrim console additem", read and understand.

 

Then, to locate specific DD items, you can search using "help" in the console.

 

e.g.

 

help corset

 

Should find various kind of game item that have the word "corset" in the name. Use page up/page down to scroll through the results.

 

Pick one that looks convincingly like a DD corset (the first two digits of the ID number will match the mod-index of DD in your Load Order).

 

Use:

 

player.additem <ID> 1

 

...to add one of the item in question. Where <ID> is the hexadecimal ID you found via help.

 

Hopefully, you didn't add the armor item, but the inventory item; there are two of each DD item.

If you find the item doesn't work correctly, and doesn't have DD functionality, you have the wrong one.

If that is the case, add the other item with the same name and it should be correct one. (Remove the first one via the console: player.removeitem <ID> 1).

If you added the right item first-time, then you're in luck.

 

That sounds very helpful. I will try it. Thank you so much!

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

You can also install the add item menu mod.

Going by console will make you insane in the long term.

[Leeyds4LLTS]

Concerning the tape your PC's mouth deal,  except for initially, my PC continues to not have tape on her mouth.  The follower says something like "I haven't for got about taping your mouth, but I will give you a few more hours."   (not exact wording)  Anyway, the retaping of the mouth never happens.  It has been literally a couple of weeks of RT playing that my PC has had this deal.  

 

question:  Is this a bug, or is there a trigger for something that is needed to get the mouth retaped?

 

Thx in advance for your comments, and as always for this fun mod!  The build I have with other mods has been remarkable stable!!  

 

[Reesewow]

3 hours ago, Leeyds4LLTS said:

question:  Is this a bug, or is there a trigger for something that is needed to get the mouth retaped?

Probably bugged or being interfered with by other DD mods - one thing to try us check the debug menu for the "send resume event" button.  Especially if it says anything but "All good" for status - that means you have a flag active that is telling DF and some other mods that you are mid-event and shouldn't be messed with.

[Lupine00]

Tape deal is a bit notorious for problems. Whether these were caused by updating, by something external to DF, or were inherent is uncertain.

 

I believe there were various attempts to make it more reliable. And new changes in 710 might have created the issue described above?

 

If your game is based on an updated DF install, that could be a problem.

 

You might want to clone your LO, make a new game, recruit a follower, set deal enablement so this deal is likely to be picked, then tweak the settings and add some debt.

Then take deals until you get this again, and test how it works from that clean position.

[Meng Yi]

Hi,

 

Any chances to have this one ported to Skyrim SE as all the requirements are available now ? this one is one of my favourite mod for Skyrim LE.

 

Thanks for the answer

[crococat]

Hello. Have some questions (mainly to understand is all ok with my game)

1. When whoring player and payment is ok, do it reduce debt somehow or not?

2. When player goes over all debt limits and all items are removed, is there any chance to recieve them back or not?

3. Are yarl puppet events possible in all towns? Cant triger it in some major cities and other towns.

4. Are pony stables events possible in all stables? Had to walk so long to proper stables.

 

Mod is going ok, like it very much, but as for me there is one thing that is really boring - removing of deal or enslavement devices in places where allowed not to wear them. It will be much much better to play with automatic unequiping bondage items in dungeons and town collar outside towns.

 

And have idea about deals. If follower want debt to be payed, he may ask other npcs to help him influence player. There may be many funny gialogs with guards, traders, innkeepers or yarls, and many outcomes based on npc type (guards - whip, traders - task, innkeepers - job). This will be very lorefriendly. And as i think this must not be a deal, but auto activated sequention when endless mod is activated by shameless player.

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, crococat said:

2. When player goes over all debt limits and all items are removed, is there any chance to recieve them back or not?

In theory, your items are sold to the wandering Khajit trader and can be retrieved.

In practice, they may vanish completely, depending on DF version, script lag, and "unknown" factors.

They are supposed to be put in the trader's hidden container, but it doesn't always seem to happen.

Scripted container handling is a tricky business.

 

Also, if the follower rips off your clothes (gear), it is invariably destroyed forever.

 

This only happens with some deals, or if enslaved, of if you pick up the special DF cursed items - if you have those deals or are enslaved, it's wise to wear junk gear at all times - the follower can get antsy and destroy gear with no warning.

 

One of the things that makes it tricky to guess how a follower should interact with the player, or get the player to interact with NPCs, is that Lozeak has kept it ambiguous whether the follower absolutely intends to enslave and sell the PC from the start, and whether the PC is complicit in this destiny - that DF basically assumes you hired that follower with the goal of being enslaved. Is that the case, or isn't it? It's hard to tell. The Jarl game dialogs lean one way, others suggest that the follower wants enslave the PC but keep them, or that the follower just wants to make money. I suggested that this should be something that is set up per follower, and while it's technically simple, it's a lot of dialog work, which is pretty tedious to do in the CK.

 

I had some thoughts about item equipping/removal during slavery (they're in the forum history if you care to read them) that have some strong similarities to your suggestions on automation. It's just that skyrim "location types" are so random and arbitrary, and you cannot know when you are about to cross a boundary either - so gameplay that uses them should be designed appropriately. DF "scares" you into staying in bondage, which certainly avoids bothering about what you equip, you just stay naked, crawling, in devices, unless you're in a dungeon. That you "choose" this as a convenience doesn't seem more immersive to me, but I don't really mind it either.

 

There's been no noises from Lozeak lately, so it might be that DF is unlikely to see any changes any time soon, including basic bug fixes, but that is Skyrim.

 

Maybe if you offer more detailed suggestions it might spark interest?