Net Neutrality

[D_ManXX2]

yes but, what about European laws. even if they throttle down and server will be placed abroad eventually only USA is then affected by this or do i see this wrong way ?? how are USA clients handled when using abroad servers outside of the USA ?? is the throttle down only visible for USA users ??

 

I think this will break allot of businesses too especially when dealing with the USA. This is not very good in long run.

 

My question is how does this handle say business from USA like Microsoft that has servers all across the worlds. Aren't they now shooting them self in the foot by doing this ?

[Astravanger]

 

Hey, doesn't it affect usa only?

the problem is that some key systems and a lot of websites are hosted in the states, therefor if they get throttled then everyone's connection will be affected.

 

 

but it's the ISP's that will slow down the speed of their lanes, won't this cause big ass international lawsuits if a eu citizen that uses ISP obviously not originated or no how affected usa laws will have his speed cut down?

I find it mighty retarded that if I host a server and I don't pay extra to my ISP instead of my officially assigned 500mbps I get 10 mbps, it's basically violation of contract regardless of what ping is showing.

There is a great deal of details here people up there won't think about and I'm pretty sure those ISPs that will do this will go bankrupt from all the stupid lawsuits americans oh so love to have (like not drying shit in microvave or some other stupid-only-in-usa-possible-situation).

[Darkpig]

 

All this bull and nobody is going to die? *Walks away disappointed*

do you want to pay for KB, MB, GB, or TB downloads, If LL dies, your "All this bull and nobody is going to die? *Walks away disappointed* Means Shit To you, but, to us gamers, meanes  , KB cost will MONEY. YOU ARE A GAMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Gamer? (Yes) (no) (maybe so). If you are implying I want Net Neutrality to vanish, no, not really. There are people in the government that want Net Neutrality  gone and people backing said government (and this will happen again). Point is I'm just waiting for something like a French Revolution to happen. Preferably before they take our bread.

[Guest Katherlne]

What about russia? I mean yeah they kinda banned google at some point there and are against torrent piracy real bad but I'm not sure putin and his kgb bunch will try this crap, it's not really their style to get info slower.....

♦ Google not banned in Russia.

♦ КГБ - Committee of State Security does not exist since the collapse of the USSR.

[Astravanger]

 

♦ Google not banned in Russia.

♦ КГБ - Committee of State Security does not exist since the collapse of the USSR.

 

 

Что такое КГБ я лучше тебя знаю, and the fact that it stopped existing officially doesn't mean those KGB agents still don't work under putin, basically read what I wrote.

 

The fact that I'm sure they're still working with him because putin himself said that "there are no ex-agents/specialists".

 

And once again you didn't read what I wrote, and I quote: "at some point", they really did, back in 2012, so yeah, that happened, oh those russians.

[Guest]

 

 

♦ Google not banned in Russia.

♦ КГБ - Committee of State Security does not exist since the collapse of the USSR.

 

 

Что такое КГБ я лучше тебя знаю, and the fact that it stopped existing officially doesn't mean those KGB agents still don't work under putin, basically read what I wrote.

 

The fact that I'm sure they're still working with him because putin himself said that "there are no ex-agents/specialists".

 

And once again you didn't read what I wrote, and I quote: "at some point", they really did, back in 2012, so yeah, that happened, oh those russians.

 

 

I went and google translated what you wrote. "something something KGB, And I'm smarter than you"

And you said it in Russian.

 

Me and my mind were having a talk about why I've been a bottom most of my life, because I cannot speak as if I knew anything,

or confidently know stuff.

 

That guy with the "utility" thing, I wanted to say "At least he tried something", the spirit of a utility classification being that a monopolistic company shouldn't be allowed to take advantage.

Netflix isn't an evil entity, google and Yahoo do it as well, so why pin it all on netflix?

If they're so cloudy on "Unlimited" (and they certainly are) set a neutral data limit of (o, say) 30GB after which you can't go anywhere unless you agree to pay overage charges.

But I can't say any of that, I'm not quoting anyone famous and I'm not all that smart.

But it's what I think.

Netflix google yahoo and the rest should either have their own equipment or pay fair usage (for absolutely anything relating to data).

The neutrality thing originally (I thought) was not to differentiate between data from an abortion clinic, a baptist minister, Russia or France, a movie or a VOIP call.

But they've twisted the meaning around so many times that I don't know what it means anymore.

Edit:

Top-Level domains (xxx, etc)

might be used in the future as a tool to eke out more money from subscribers, like cable companies do with TV,

if neutrality is abolished completely.

It's my feeling that that will probably happen, but I'm not sure when or how.

Someone will cry "Think of the children" and sue or protest that all websites coming from somewhere [they don't like] should have a common top-level domain.

Movie sites will have to say they're a movie site.

I then think that cell-phone companies and cable-satellite companies will charge a basic rate for "The internet" (dot-com)

and have tiers for everything else.

25.00 more a month gets you sports sites, yada etc.

The internet won't change, you'll just end up paying more for what you get now. 

(and yes, tunneling will suddenly be trendy, but the whole fee-for-data debate will rage on. They'll block ports! you'll work around...They'll restrict your service! You'll "borrow" someone else's. They'll continually try to monitor and restrict you, and you'll work around it. You always do, it's sort of the nebulous evil-hacker argument that spurs on all the net-neutrality debate)

(I'm debating myself...)

Stuff will get more expensive!

[Astravanger]

lol "something something KGB, And I'm smarter than you" isn't even close, sorry to go offtopic it's juts it made me chuckle, something something kgb..... sounds like a start of a weird al parody song.....

 

Oh and yeah, I agree on the "get more expensive" part, it always gets more expensive, not so long ago switched to optic fiber and for some reason got stuck with a telephone line I don't use that I have to pay for cause I can't get rid of it because "?????" reason....

[Darkening Demise]

Trump endorses the idea of destroying NN not surprising he's the right wing equivalent of Hillary. Just like the left was in denial of Obama's corruption now the right is in denial of Trump's.

[mercplatypus]

Trump endorses the idea of destroying NN not surprising he's the right wing equivalent of Hillary. Just like the left was in denial of Obama's corruption now the right is in denial of Trump's.

 

This would be true if it didn't completely ignore the fact that a rather large amount of the American right wing oppose Net Neutrality in its entirety.  The American right wing is not ignoring Trump's stance on Net Neutrality.  

 

The right wing in the states is divided on the issue between consumer rights and the idea of private ownership.  In the minds of many who oppose NN they understand the internet as a paid for utility with service providers being owned by private corporations providing a service just like any other business.  To help bring this into perspective I'll compare ISP's with mail carriers in the US such as UPS and FedEx.

 

NN basically forces private companies to provide the exact same services for all destinations you can exchange data with, in this analogy comparing your traffic online with mail you send and receive.  All routes must have the exact same travel time and resources devoted to all mail you send and all services cost the exact same amount.

 

What this translates to in the mind of right leaning Americans is removing your option for overnight shipping for free from arrangements between a company like e-bay and a company like UPS.  Applied to internet it means the removal of options for sports fans to have increased data flow for the sports related services that they actually want such as unlimited streaming of games and events with certain wireless carriers (which Verizon and I believe AT&T do in the US) as this would violate NN.  This would violate the principals of a free market as it arbitrarily removes the ability of private organizations to provide differing content to increase competition within the marketplace allowing corporations to drive up costs with absolutely no way for consumers to respond without abandoning the entire service, in this case the internet, as a whole.

 

The American right wants the market to determine these things for the most part and sees no good for consumers or start up companies if their options are effectively hamstrung in such a way.  If the US government offered their own service provider that was subsidized by all taxpayers then NN would make much more sense to apply to that one public option.  That does not exist in the US.

[Kaldor Draigo]

did my topic get ninjad or merged with a different topic such as this? cuz i made this topic i made it a week ago

[The Dark Adonis]

I'm very glad to see this topic up on LL. This is a huge issue that is not getting anywhere near enough attention.

For anyone who is not sure what Net Neutrality is Trey Crowder does a reasonable job explaining it in this video (

)

If you want to make your voices heard on the issue head to this site.

 

www.Battleforthenet.com

 

It has a pre-constructed letter that you can send to your senator. It does ask for email/address/phone so just be aware of that.

You can even delete the message and write your own, but this is really the only way to help ensure that the bill doesn't get passed even on its umpteenth rewrite.

[27X]

https://act.represent.us/sign/Net_neutrality_lobbying_Comcast_Verizon/

[D_ManXX2]

So has this all begon looks like loverlab is loading very slow today.

[A She-Wolf]

There's still some slim chance yet. We actually found battleforthenet.com on an imgur post. So it's as simple as getting the word passed around.

 

You can also go to fightforthefuture.org to check out other stuff or if you're worried about the legitimacy of this organization. They're the ones running battleforthenet.com. And Net Neutrality is at the top of their list right now. It's really really real.

 

Seriously, please. if you can do anything at all then do it. Even if it's just to give them an email and street address. Everyone in the U.S. already pays three-fold for their right to view the rest of the world and connect with their concerns and interests. We shouldn't be forced to be told what those concerns and interests have to be. 

[A She-Wolf]

well I just paid attention to the date on this thread and it looks like I unintentionally necro'd worse than I thought. WELL ANYWAY. My post is still relevant. I don't have the gums to start a new thread.

 

Today are the active protests organized/supported by fightforthefuture.org

 

It's not too late to go and see if there's anything happening in your area where you could get involved. Or just write a letter. Whatever you can do.

[dagobaking]

This movement needs to change their strategy. It's not going to be won at the federal level.

 

Someone needs to make a watchdog web site that makes public the deals that local politicians make with the cable companies. This information is either available openly already or via free FOIA request (requires sending a simple letter).

 

The problem is that local politicians at the county level are being bought and making monopolistic deals with big cable. Protest those people and vote them out of office and you will see change on this issue.

[A She-Wolf]

 

 

sauce: https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/996183921695055872

[A She-Wolf]

Just a little great news. The vote to save Net Neutrality and throw out the FCC's bullshit passed in the senate with a 52/47. Two votes swung at the last minute.

 

Now the vote needs to pass in the House of Representatives. People who care about freedom of the net should be more motivated now than ever. It's not over yet. 

 

 

[joemonco]

On 5/14/2018 at 12:14 PM, dagobaking said:

Someone needs to make a watchdog web site that makes public the deals that local politicians make with the cable companies. This information is either available openly already or via free FOIA request (requires sending a simple letter).

 

Pretty certain that site already exists:

 

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/index.php/privacy-technology/googles-first-quarter-lobbying-expenditures-top-5-mmillion-att-comcast-each

 

Apparently Google has outspent Comcast and AT&T this year.

[dagobaking]

7 minutes ago, joemonco said:

 

Pretty certain that site already exists:

 

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/index.php/privacy-technology/googles-first-quarter-lobbying-expenditures-top-5-mmillion-att-comcast-each

 

Apparently Google has outspent Comcast and AT&T this year.

I would be interested in following it if such a site exists. Do you have a link?

 

The link you gave is a generic consumer-at-large site with about the same information on this topic as the AP.

[joemonco]

https://lobbyingdisclosure.house.gov  <-- has links to both disclosure and contribution searches for the house

 

https://soprweb.senate.gov/index.cfm?event=selectfields  <-- for the senate.

[dagobaking]

Those are useful for the Federal level for someone who has hours to spend looking that stuff up.

 

The real damage on this issue is not at the federal level. It's at the local level where smaller time politicians award absurdly favorable contracts to the cable companies.

 

There needs to be a site that is managed by people that do the leg-work to centralize the information about those contracts and call the people out who are responsible. That would make it easier for other news outlets to follow and report in higher-profile news stories.

[steelpanther24]

There always seems to be plenty of lightly informed people opining on net neutrality.   However, it comes down do you believe that the internet should be regulated like phone, gas or electric power?  The pro of regulation is that we get a standard and relatively stable prices/ performance and technology, while the con is that innovation will suffer as there will be no room for newcomers to offer new technology. 

 

Some fear that large companies, such as AT+T, Google and Amazon will be able to control the market, driving out smaller providers, or politically incorrect websites like LL.  However, others fear that by having regulation, advancements will slow down to a crawl as regulation will  stabilize market shares between a few global telecomm giants like Verizon and AT+T (and whoever is the power house in the EU, Asia and other parts of the world) and regional powers like Comcast.    So, if you want what Comcast offers, well.... you best move unless you are in their part of the country.   

 

My opinion is that certain companies are already far too powerful and should be broken up, but until that happens, net neutrality may be a necessary evil....much like lawyers.  The only thing worse than the Gov't controlling anything is a monopoly controlling it.   At least we can pretend that we have a choice for the CEO....err I mean the President of the Country.

[dagobaking]

Competition would solve the problem. That is why Comcast and Verizon have tried to remove Net Neutrality. Because Netflix, SlingTV and other products are finally offering services that are competitive with their content services. They want to have the power to undermine their competition by throttling their bandwidth and other dubious practices.

 

The reason that regulation is warranted in this case is not the size of the companies involved. It is due to the unique way that the services are delivered. They have to use public land (under sidewalks, roads, etc.) to connect the lines. Since it would be impractical to allow anyone who wants to to do this, that right has to be granted by local governments.

 

And that is where the problems start. These companies buy off local governments in order to maintain the local contracts that give them exclusive rights to the lines. An automatic monopoly.

 

Net Neutrality really does not go far enough. There should be greater regulations for how long those contracts can be for, how transparent the bidding process has to be, etc. I think that there is a federal jurisdiction for that regulation considering the national reach and impact of the internet. It's not just a matter of county business.

[steelpanther24]

On 5/30/2018 at 9:58 PM, dagobaking said:

Competition would solve the problem. That is why Comcast and Verizon have tried to remove Net Neutrality. Because Netflix, SlingTV and other products are finally offering services that are competitive with their content services. They want to have the power to undermine their competition by throttling their bandwidth and other dubious practices.

 

The reason that regulation is warranted in this case is not the size of the companies involved. It is due to the unique way that the services are delivered. They have to use public land (under sidewalks, roads, etc.) to connect the lines. Since it would be impractical to allow anyone who wants to to do this, that right has to be granted by local governments.

 

And that is where the problems start. These companies buy off local governments in order to maintain the local contracts that give them exclusive rights to the lines. An automatic monopoly.

 

Net Neutrality really does not go far enough. There should be greater regulations for how long those contracts can be for, how transparent the bidding process has to be, etc. I think that there is a federal jurisdiction for that regulation considering the national reach and impact of the internet. It's not just a matter of county business.

Hmm, somehow I doubt that the regular people will turn to LL to solve the world's problems.