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lambient1988

Skyrim Special Edition or original Skyrim?

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I have a favor to ask you all.

Can someone using Special Edition please tell me if this mod works without any extra edittings?

 

http://aceeqmodding.weebly.com/summer-overhaul.html

 

Also, does Mod Organiser support Skyrim Special Edition? Or not yet?

 

I heard somewhere that they added a bunch of ground clutter, so I'm not sure it will work. You can try and see. :) If it has an esp, you'll have to save it out with the SSE creation kit to get the new format. Also some texture formats won't work anymore, so I hear. I've converted a few mods for my game that have all worked so far with just Nif Optimizer and the SSE Creation Kit, but they were small mods - armor, clothing, Primitive Horses and a few other animal mods.  

 

There is MO2, but it's still in Beta. I'm waiting on MO too, so using NMM for SSE and FO4 atm.  

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For what it's worth, after playing SSE for a while now, I don't think I can go back to Oldrim.

 

SSE is far more stable than Oldrim ever was. I'm getting much more stable framerates, fewer glitches, I've only had one CTD in the 100 or so hours I've played. Hell, even loading times are better, and the save files are much smaller.

 

Once SKSE gets on its way and we have decent Race Menu and UI mods back, there will be no reason to ever go back to Oldrim. SSE has just brought far too many performance and stability improvements.

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I tried SSE briefly but thought that it doesn't look as good as Oldrim and only recently I came to know the reason why:

It seems that it's basically a trade off between stability (and perhaps performance) vs variety and visuals for now, when it comes to the question of which edition to choose.

 

Arguably some of those missing ENB features in SSE might be subtle, but they also could be a showstopper to some people like me (especially such effects like SSS, considering the nature of this community).

 

So, I guess we should at least give enough information to those who are seeking for help in deciding such a matter, so that they can judge the pros and cons themselves according to their own priorities.

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I have played like 10 min of SSE and noticed quite a bit of change. 

 

The trees are larger, and the grass is already like having a grass mod in play.... It looks decent... but in the end it is the SAME game.... it always will be.  So it comes down to 1. Have you bought them already? are you asking which to buy right now?  3. Which is more fun in the long run? 

 

1. Those that had legendary got a free copy of SSE when it came out. I have both. I am running a vanilla playthrough in SSE and a modded run in oldrim.

 

2. IF I had to choose which to buy it would come down to this... How long are you willing to wait?  Right now Oldrim offers more bang for the buck. Let me explain. Most people who say the mods are being ported to SSE are for the most part  right but the good mods.. including those on this site, are not being ported just yet because of their dependency on SKSE.  I would also like to point out that ENBs are already available for SSE as well as a limited form of ENBseries.  But Anyway.. back on topic.

 

Right now, The best mods out there tend to be script heavy so they are not really ported over yet. SKSE is still months off. ( BTW Frostfall was recently ported to SSE, Who knew..)  So you have access to MORE mods right now with old skyrim. Will this change? probably as SSE is a better option for modding once all the big players get lined up but they are not there yet.

 

if you are just buying one this can factor in to the cost per fun ratio... Oldrim can be gotten for about 13 bucks if you know where to look ... or 20 on steam. SSE is still 60 bucks ( US currency) so your getting more for that 20 bucks than you are for the 60 as they are essentially the same game. Granted modding skyrim has a bit of a learning curve.  

 

What would I do? Get Skyrim Legendary edition and then wait for SSE to come down about 20 or 30 bucks. Mod skyrim legendary and enjoy it and then when the price of SSE comes down to the point you would have spent 60 bucks on both games... get it and enjoy SSE. It will be months before SSE is ready for hardcore modding.  Take it in stride. 

 

 

That is just my Two cents.  

 

tl;dr: They are both good games but they are THE SAME game under the hood. Get oldrim, mod it, enjoy it... and get SSE later when its cheaper and everyone has everything setup for it. 

 

 

EDIT: Heh.. just noticed they dropped the price of SSE to 40 bucks US .... Get both for 60 bucks, never look back....

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I noticed mentioned here the benefits for the script heavy mods from the 64bit SSE.

It was pointed out several times that the papyrus engine was not updated and is the same as in Oldrim so in order to keep expectations more realistic, expect SSE to face the same script problems as Oldrim when the script extender comes out and script heavy mods start to be converted.

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I noticed mentioned here the benefits for the script heavy mods from the 64bit SSE.

It was pointed out several times that the papyrus engine was not updated and is the same as in Oldrim so in order to keep expectations more realistic, expect SSE to face the same script problems as Oldrim when the script extender comes out and script heavy mods start to be converted.

 

it's nothing new most talk without having the slight idea of what they are talking about

 

some bethesda guy said something about papyrus settings somewhere

fupdate is 500 ms by default i think(it's ms?)

with 500 you can have 60/.5=120 fps

with 2000 you can have 60/2=30fps

with 5000 you can have 60/5=12fps (think i tried 50 and 5000 and didn't saw any difference so bethesda guy probably had no idea what he was talking about either)

 

you use enhanced blood, frostfall, auto unequip arrow, defeat.... and this give 10 scripts to all npcs

if there's 40 npc that's 400 scripts, if you go above x scripts you get a stack dump, and that mean troubles

you just have to check civil war overhaul nexus page to see that, those console commands for the ones that get stuck (because the scripts were dumps before doing their stuff, and when the game reload them, they can no longer do their stuff right, those script had edit global value or something else before they were stack dump)

but if you merge some of those scripts and it become 80 scripts for 40 npcs, game have to load the same as before, but it will be able to load much more without problem (that's not really the problem anyway, the problem is the scripts that aren't killed after use, they add up and add up and it's just a matter of time to start getting dumps)

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I like SE a lot. Going to be great once like, SKSE 64 and new mods come out that are improved on and such (Some are coming, most stuff should land in like Q1 2017) So longterm SE.

Right now maybe vanilla I guess.

 

SSE Looks really good though, I got my game looking how I wanted it in no time at all, with very few mods compared to what I would have had to use in Vanilla.

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I noticed mentioned here the benefits for the script heavy mods from the 64bit SSE.

It was pointed out several times that the papyrus engine was not updated and is the same as in Oldrim so in order to keep expectations more realistic, expect SSE to face the same script problems as Oldrim when the script extender comes out and script heavy mods start to be converted.

 

One of my mods has over 1300 scripts and its SSE version performs far better than its Oldrim version in every way.

 

There are plenty of script heavy mods for SSE now.  Some of them have had their SKSE-reliant features temporarily disabled (like mine) and others never had SKSE features (like Arthmoor's mods and Hearthfire Multiple Adoptions).  There are also new heavily scripted mods like Flower Girls that never existed in Oldrim.

 

SSE is a superior modding platform.  I don't think twice about doing something aggressive in BBLS SE that I never would have done in Oldrim BBLS, because it would have harmed performance or caused a crash.  64 bit and DX11 is an enormous difference.  You're building on a solid foundation instead of constantly trying to find ways to push it without blowing things up.  Not yet having SKSE64 sucks, but from a mod maker's perspective, SSE provides a degree of freedom we didn't have in the old game.

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There are plenty of script heavy mods for SSE now.  

 

Do you need to recompile the scripts when porting a mod from Oldrim to SSE or do the scripts compiled with the classic CK work in SSE?

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One of my mods has over 1300 scripts and its SSE version performs far better than its Oldrim version in every way.

 

 

and how did you check that?

161220030344493262.jpg

i am supposed to have problems because there's 24 000 scripts in my scripts folder?

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Things I like.

 

It runs for ages without crashing.

I've basically got my load out to my 'clean' load from 32bit, (a couple of things missing but nothing drastic).

 

Things I don't like.

 

Has the same bugs, (but just takes time for them to appear). e.g. occasionally big square of missing water in the north sea, people/things falling out of the sky - even though frame rate is clamped. Clutter explosion on entering an area. Various other things which you think are probably engine rather than quest script related. (Obviously quest stuff is fixed by other 'third' party mods as a rule).

My first o/s out of memory error running anything. (I have 8gb and SSE was taking up 6.5gb of that after a bit of time - well hours. Yes I have extra textures so in that sense my fault, and cured it - so far - by just putting in a passive ENB setup, (i.e. for the ENBOOST bit - which I assume is still working because I haven't had this again).

Lack of subsurface scatter or the ability to do the aforementioned. (probably will never come).

Oh! that weird Skyrim.esm update. No idea what that did. It didn't effect my game, but on the other hand as they haven't changed the esm before that, (for, like, really obvious bugs), I was just a bit concerned.

Edit :- Oh! and sounds just disappearing for a bit. It's almost as if they went to some effort into making the converted engine exactly like the original.

 

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There are plenty of script heavy mods for SSE now.  

 

Do you need to recompile the scripts when porting a mod from Oldrim to SSE or do the scripts compiled with the classic CK work in SSE?

 

 

No.  I recompiled most of mine because I couldn't remember which ones were making SKSE, ConsoleUtils and NiOverride calls, but that was just so it would be easy to figure out which scripts needed a bunch of code disabled.  Oldrim compiled scripts run without issue in the new game.

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There are plenty of script heavy mods for SSE now.  

 

Do you need to recompile the scripts when porting a mod from Oldrim to SSE or do the scripts compiled with the classic CK work in SSE?

 

 

No.  I recompiled most of mine because I couldn't remember which ones were making SKSE, ConsoleUtils and NiOverride calls, but that was just so it would be easy to figure out which scripts needed a bunch of code disabled.  Oldrim compiled scripts run without issue in the new game.

 

 

 

That was my original point. The compiled old scripts work in the new game. The papyrus engine is the same. I guess the game itself can handle it better and give it more space to operate, but when it comes to limitations and problems within the scripting engine they will be the same. 

I'm in no way denying that SSE will perform better than Oldrim, my point was that people need to continue to be careful as always when installing script heavy mods. 

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That was my original point. The compiled old scripts work in the new game. The papyrus engine is the same. I guess the game itself can handle it better and give it more space to operate, but when it comes to limitations and problems within the scripting engine they will be the same. 

I'm in no way denying that SSE will perform better than Oldrim, my point was that people need to continue to be careful as always when installing script heavy mods. 

 

The fact that Oldrim compiled scripts run in the new game doesn't mean they won't run better.  This becomes pretty evident the first time you use a cheat to get all the materials necessary to build a Hearthfires home and go from workbench to workbench, using the <enter> and <Y> keys to race through adding all the furniture items.  The items appear at a faster rate and that's all scripting, a bunch of enable() function calls.  You'll see it when you start playing SSE.  The game is faster at everything.

 

It is my belief that heavily scripted mods harm only one thing, your ability to uninstall them and continue the same play-through.  Poorly scripted mods can harm almost anything.  But, heavily does not equate to poorly.  The game itself and all its DLCs are extremely heavily scripted.

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The fact that Oldrim compiled scripts run in the new game doesn't mean they won't run better.  This becomes pretty evident the first time you use a cheat to get all the materials necessary to build a Hearthfires home and go from workbench to workbench, using the <enter> and <Y> keys to race through adding all the furniture items.  The items appear at a faster rate and that's all scripting, a bunch of enable() function calls.  You'll see it when you start playing SSE.  The game is faster at everything.

 

when you will be high levle and able to carry dozen of armors, hundred of ingredients, potions, misc... your inventory will take more time to load

because of that

- alchemy was replaced with crafting the potions merchants sell

- potion number was reduce to 2 (level 2 and 5-> 1 and 2)

- outfits replacer are just one armor (no longer in inventory, that's in an edited selene kate mcm menu now)

- poser was replaced by the uilist version (that don't cover the last version, i don't use, it was time consuming to edit one of those scripts, replace xxyyyyyy by xxzzzzzz to add old "new stuff" to the list)

- "new" ingots from mods were replaced by iron malachite stahrim....

- etc etc (it's also a problem with auto storage script, more stuff, more chance to get a stack dump if there's some onitemadd() or remove() in the load order)

 

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The fact that Oldrim compiled scripts run in the new game doesn't mean they won't run better.  This becomes pretty evident the first time you use a cheat to get all the materials necessary to build a Hearthfires home and go from workbench to workbench, using the <enter> and <Y> keys to race through adding all the furniture items.  The items appear at a faster rate and that's all scripting, a bunch of enable() function calls.  You'll see it when you start playing SSE.  The game is faster at everything.

 

when you will be high levle and able to carry dozen of armors, hundred of ingredients, potions, misc... your inventory will take more time to load

because of that

- alchemy was replaced with crafting the potions merchants sell

- potion number was reduce to 2 (level 2 and 5-> 1 and 2)

- outfits replacer are just one armor (no longer in inventory, that's in an edited selene kate mcm menu now)

- poser was replaced by the uilist version (that don't cover the last version, i don't use, it was time consuming to edit one of those scripts, replace xxyyyyyy by xxzzzzzz to add old "new stuff" to the list)

- "new" ingots from mods were replaced by iron malachite stahrim....

- etc etc (it's also a problem with auto storage script, more stuff, more chance to get a stack dump if there's some onitemadd() or remove() in the load order)

 

As usual, Yatol, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.  It's sometimes like you suddenly start having a totally different conversation, as if you accidentally responded to the wrong post, and I suspect I'm not the only one left shaking my head, wondering, "WTF?"  I imagine this is a result of English not being your first language, or maybe you simply enjoy changing the subject.  But, you'll have to forgive me if I don't understand what alchemy, outfits, poses, inventory or ingots have to do with what I wrote.  And what does Selene Kate and MCM have to do with SSE?

 

Please don't respond by posting an image of yet another thing that has nothing to do with what we are discussing.  I know you like to do it, but it only serves to confuse us more.  Unless of course you're just trolling, in which case, go for it.

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 But, you'll have to forgive me if I don't understand what alchemy, outfits, poses, inventory or ingots have to do with what I wrote.  And what does Selene Kate and MCM have to do with SSE?

 

as if you understand what you are talking about

 

 

go from workbench to workbench, using the <enter> and <Y> keys to race through adding all the furniture items.  The items appear at a faster rate and that's all scripting, a bunch of enable() function calls.

 

 

coc qasmoke and go to your workbench

now pick up all those coffers, and go back to your workbench

if you want to understand, load tesedit and go to contructible items

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Yatol, I think no matter what you have made your mind up, you dislike SSE. We get it.. in your mind 32bit is in some mysterious way superior to 64bit (despite all that extra headroom and address space).  I am afraid though that you can only be on a losing side of this especially as time goes on. At the very worst, SSE will be able to do everything and look every bit as good as Oldrim, and that is the baseline.. in time it will be better in every possible way than Oldrim.

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in time it will be better in every possible way than Oldrim

 

like i said in the pre release thread, don't feel like playing sse vanilla skyrim waiting for that time to come

also said some fanboys will try to get more people to switch (to get stuff done faster for sse) with random crap thinking nobody understand that crap

i craft with breezhome fully upgradable auto storage scripts (i know the risk, all scripts with onitemadd or removed from my load order were killed)

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SSE is just stable. I personally care more about stability over variety, nothing ruin game more then random crashes.

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Let me preface by saying I haven't played with it..... yet.

 

I might, but that depends on a number of factors. Like all the utilities (SKSE, etc..) that give functionality to all of the best mods. If it's CK is as disastrous as FO4's, then it's going to go nowhere for me.... fast. Just because SE plays better and more stable, does NOT make it better overall. If your only interest is the vanilla game and perhaps some basic mods, then sure. Go with SE. Because the basic, vanilla game experience will be obviously better. But if you want many of the "fun" mods that make Skyrim truly shine, then the original is simply what it is..... better than SE. At least for the time being. It's easy to argue performance and visuals when you're essentially comparing little more than the base vanilla game. That said.....

 

I haven't played vanilla Skyrim since shortly after it launched. And I'll say this without ANY reservation.....

 

I'll NEVER play it again. Once and done was enough. And now it's modded to hell and back, and more fun than ever. My Skyrim looks equally as good as any SE screenshot I've seen. So visuals are a nominal argument at best. Stability is also a nominal argument, because SE hasn't nearly enough script heavy or visually intensive mods to truly put it to a real test. When it can run as stably with 230+ mods running scripts or heavy textures, then I'll be sold. But until it can, I'll stick with the original, thanks  ;)

 

Trykz

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SSE is just stable. I personally care more about stability over variety, nothing ruin game more then random crashes.

 

not because you crash everyone crash

random crash doesn't exist anyway...

 

my last one was an alt tab to replace some npc heads (replacing hair x with hair y can be problems because of hair x tri file)

would have crash again if i didn't put back hair x before going back to that npc (it's that or going back to earlier save to give him hair y headpart)

before that, a few ctds in whiterun trying smco nif optimisation (some said nitristrips > nitrishape for performance, so i took a look, that thing fail with some nifs from actor and architecture folders)

another ctd trying to load the game without tree folder

and before that the follower mod that send you to space (that's most of my ctd, trying a mod or messing with stuff i shouldn't be messing with)

 

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Let me preface by saying I haven't played with it..... yet.

 

I might, but that depends on a number of factors. Like all the utilities (SKSE, etc..) that give functionality to all of the best mods. If it's CK is as disastrous as FO4's, then it's going to go nowhere for me.... fast. Just because SE plays better and more stable, does NOT make it better overall. If your only interest is the vanilla game and perhaps some basic mods, then sure. Go with SE. Because the basic, vanilla game experience will be obviously better. But if you want many of the "fun" mods that make Skyrim truly shine, then the original is simply what it is..... better than SE. At least for the time being. It's easy to argue performance and visuals when you're essentially comparing little more than the base vanilla game. That said.....

 

I haven't played vanilla Skyrim since shortly after it launched. And I'll say this without ANY reservation.....

 

I'll NEVER play it again. Once and done was enough. And now it's modded to hell and back, and more fun than ever. My Skyrim looks equally as good as any SE screenshot I've seen. So visuals are a nominal argument at best. Stability is also a nominal argument, because SE hasn't nearly enough script heavy or visually intensive mods to truly put it to a real test. When it can run as stably with 230+ mods running scripts or heavy textures, then I'll be sold. But until it can, I'll stick with the original, thanks  ;)

 

Trykz

 

It sounds like you should try it out to better understand it.

 

It already can be modded with many of the same mods as oldrim and it runs way better. It is already not limited to just playing the vanilla game.

 

The new SKSE is being worked on for it. As soon as that is out, the majority of oldrim mods will be able to be ported over.

 

What is there to not like about having the same thing but running better on the same machines? Once the new SKSE comes out, I doubt many modders will bother with oldrim any more.

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What is there to not like about having the same thing but running better on the same machines? Once the new SKSE comes out, I doubt many modders will bother with oldrim any more.

 

 

What's TO like at this point in time, really?

 

I mean, I get that it runs great, and has a good number of mods available for it at present. However, it doesn't have the mods I use to make Skyrim a truly rugged and dangerous world. Like Ely's Uncapper, enslavement mods, and various others that make Skyrim the world that many feel it "should" have been right from the start.

 

And I doubt the assumption that many modders will not continue modding the original holds much ground in reality. Truth is, it's HIGHLY unlikely that the SKSE that's offered for SE will function identically. Meaning a LOT of work will need to be done for the more script heavy mods currently available. Unless it's at least extremely similar, I doubt many of the biggest and most popular mods will be ported over by their original authors. Fact is, these authors have already invested massive chunks of time and effort. So we'll have to wait and see if they really want to repeat that, or if they're willing to pass the torch onto someone else who wants to invest the time and effort.

 

That said, I hope they do. But unfortunately for me, SE isn't quite there yet. I'm reasonably sure it'll get there, but at the moment, only time will tell.

 

We'll see.....

 

Trykz

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