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Guest Flobalob

The new internet surveillance

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College degree's don't open eyes nor do they open one's mind to differing opinions outside of that of a professors. They don't give one wisdom nor do they teach one right from wrong. They don't give one the skill's needed to get out of one's own way. In today's world a college degree is a paper Document as worthy as the Constitution of the United States is to the current and past 3 Administrations who chose to walk all over it. But yes taking the common man for an idiot is at best a bad idea and came with the high price the "losing team" have now seen fit to charge back to the common man for recounts cause they didn't get their way.

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degrees are a tag applied on ppl to let other to easly identify you what kind of cog are you in this world. Degree tell others what job you should be able to do, not who are you. In my native country a degree in humanist studies is the only degree i could think of that would be able to help ppl develop their wisdom. Unfortunately these degrees are wortheless to find a job, they just make you a better person and year after year they are discarded more and more by students as choice. Philosophy is the art of reason but you dont need a degree, you can just read some books :) I think philosophy should be an addon to every course study, a complement to have better citizens but maybe states dont like to have smart ppl, thinking to china, usa and eu are running after china on this aspect :)

Obviously ppl can develop wisdom throught past experience and reflections but reading the thoughts of some old philosophers and great thinkers will surely give a boost.

 

Instead of perma fapping, sometime ppl could spend just a incredibly small portion of their life to read. Go to amazon and look for philosophy best sellers, read 10 of them :)

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degrees are a tag applied on ppl to let other to easly identify you what kind of cog are you in this world. Degree tell others what job you should be able to do, not who are you. In my native country a degree in humanist studies is the only degree i could think of that would be able to help ppl develop their wisdom. Unfortunately these degrees are wortheless to find a job, they just make you a better person and year after year they are discarded more and more by students as choice. Philosophy is the art of reason but you dont need a degree, you can just read some books :) I think philosophy should be an addon to every course study, a complement to have better citizens but maybe states dont like to have smart ppl, thinking to china, usa and eu are running after china on this aspect :)

Obviously ppl can develop wisdom throught past experience and reflections but reading the thoughts of some old philosophers and great thinkers will surely give a boost.

 

Instead of perma fapping, sometime ppl could spend just a incredibly small portion of their life to read. Go to amazon and look for philosophy best sellers, read 10 of them :)

 

12 years ago someone I used to know spent 2 years in a tech school to become an IT.  He has been a clerk at a convenience store ever since and he is STILL paying off his loans for tuition.

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I don't know if it has been discussed yet but how are the new internet surveillance laws going to affect sites like LL where virtually everyone uses an alias? Governments are going to be spying on us and recording all our browsing history as from next year which lots of local agencies will have access to. What do we do, delete our accounts or what?  :D  Just curious.

 

Just practice some basic OpSec, use different usernames/passwords for forums you frequent. Limit your social media presence (personally I'd say stay off it but if you must), never share personal info like real name, address, email, IRL pictures etc.

 

Sadly privacy isn't 100% guaranteed these days but you can mitigate the damage with some simple steps.

 

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I do not think a handful of fetishists for games are a threat to any government, there are places on the internet worse than this  :sleepy:

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The government is spying on me? Well, just a warning: once you enter my browser history the things you saw in Vietnam will be nothing compared to what I have ;)

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Remember when copyright lawyers scooped leecher IPs from torrent sites, asked ISPs to reveal the actual people behind those IPs, then sent out threatening letters by the thousand, asking for $1000+ settlement fees to avoid a lawsuit?

 

It's that kind of shit I'm more worried about.

 

In the UK, you can get fined or land in jail for consuming porn that the government classifies as "extreme". Google "UK porn ban" for several sources on the things considered "extreme" - real "taste police" material.

 

With all these data retention and surveillance laws, a list of people regularly visiting immoral site "X" is just one formal request to the right agency away. Some authoritarian "I need to push my morals on everyone else" politician could decide to do that at some point.

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Remember when copyright lawyers scooped leecher IPs from torrent sites, asked ISPs to reveal the actual people behind those IPs, then sent out threatening letters by the thousand, asking for $1000+ settlement fees to avoid a lawsuit?

 

In the UK, you can get fined or land in jail for consuming porn that the government classifies as "extreme". Google "UK porn ban" for several sources on the things considered "extreme" - real "taste police" material.

 

With all these data retention and surveillance laws, a list of people regularly visiting immoral site "X" is just one formal request to the right agency away. Some authoritarian "I need to push my morals on everyone else" politician could decide to do that at some point.

 

You nailed it.

 

I hate to sound like a defeatist, but by the time all the big reveals started hitting the media through Snowden, it was already too late. Still, it's something I feel everyone should against and I find it disturbing how it's becoming more and more a non-issue now that Obama is out of office. People just like the political royal rumble that's Trump and the spectacle of it all I guess :unsure:

 

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Remember when copyright lawyers scooped leecher IPs from torrent sites, asked ISPs to reveal the actual people behind those IPs, then sent out threatening letters by the thousand, asking for $1000+ settlement fees to avoid a lawsuit?

 

In the UK, you can get fined or land in jail for consuming porn that the government classifies as "extreme". Google "UK porn ban" for several sources on the things considered "extreme" - real "taste police" material.

 

With all these data retention and surveillance laws, a list of people regularly visiting immoral site "X" is just one formal request to the right agency away. Some authoritarian "I need to push my morals on everyone else" politician could decide to do that at some point.

 

You nailed it.

 

I hate to sound like a defeatist, but by the time all the big reveals started hitting the media through Snowden, it was already too late. Still, it's something I feel everyone should against and I find it disturbing how it's becoming more and more a non-issue now that Obama is out of office. People just like the political royal rumble that's Trump and the spectacle of it all I guess :unsure:

 

 

Now admittedly i'm a little bit stoned and drunk so the world has a nice rosy glow to it but do you not think if the above is a serious consideration then perhaps the democrazy/society we are in is already so fucked that this is concern in itself is the tip of the iceberg and you should have so many other concerns (i.e. state deciding all your money is its, state deciding it can take all your possessions, state deciding it can take you) on your mind that this would be a total non-issue if that is actually your world view

 

 

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Now admittedly i'm a little bit stoned and drunk so the world has a nice rosy glow to it but do you not think if the above is a serious consideration then perhaps the democrazy/society we are in is already so fucked that this is concern in itself is the tip of the iceberg and you should have so many other concerns (i.e. state deciding all your money is its, state deciding it can take all your possessions, state deciding it can take you) on your mind that this would be a total non-issue if that is actually your world view

 

 

lol well it is, all the other things are of course factored into my (and hopefully others) greater concern of eroding liberty in the U.S. and abroad. All the spying though is quite literally happening in your own home, so it makes it difficult to tackle all of the issues at once when your center is already off-balance. I'll back that statement up too, by saying that the way the system of said spying is so efficient, a panopticon was created. You never know if you're really being spied on or not, so it's best to self-censor. Sure it's paranoid thinking and no way to live your life but you have to ask, is it better just to stick your head in the sand?

 

:ph34r:  <<< me after writing this

 

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"panopticon"? You guys sound better way stoned than I could ever attempt to sound sober, but I thought of this thread when I read a Yahoo headline that Vizio, an electronics firm making televisions, was fined for observing what you watch and which DVD's you play, and sending the info back to the company.
It took me five seconds (just about) to remember that any app on Google asks permissions to view your contacts, your camera, use your microphone, and see which files you have.
So it's OK (I suppose) if they include a biggie disclosure statement no one reads saying they look at everything and you agree or better send the phone back.

I had another example but it got lost in my mind..."They see everything" pretty much covers it.

Now the question is, what they DO with all that information, and if the changing morals of a society should make you very careful (or at least more circumspect) what you proudly announce in your sig. And maybe how easy it is for political enemies to fish out any dirt from the

internet-well on people they don't happen to like or are competing against.

I like this place, kind of, it's where a lot of mods are.
And I hope they care about issues like this, more than where a post belongs, but that's just a humble opinion, not a declaratory statement, and it should not be viewed as an overall point of view on my life. Void where prohibited. E Pluribus Unum. E Plebnista

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"panopticon"? You guys sound better way stoned than I could ever attempt to sound sober, but I thought of this thread when I read a Yahoo headline that Vizio, an electronics firm making televisions, was fined for observing what you watch and which DVD's you play, and sending the info back to the company.

It took me five seconds (just about) to remember that any app on Google asks permissions to view your contacts, your camera, use your microphone, and see which files you have.

So it's OK (I suppose) if they include a biggie disclosure statement no one reads saying they look at everything and you agree or better send the phone back.

I had another example but it got lost in my mind..."They see everything" pretty much covers it.

Now the question is, what they DO with all that information, and if the changing morals of a society should make you very careful (or at least more circumspect) what you proudly announce in your sig.

I like this place, kind of, it's where a lot of mods are.

And I hope they care about issues like this, more than where a post belongs, but that's just a humble opinion, not a declaratory statement, and it should not be viewed as an overall point of view on my life. Void where prohibited. E Pluribus Unum. E Plebnista

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/23/panopticon-digital-surveillance-jeremy-bentham

 

For the record I wasn't stoned when I wrote what I wrote, just under the influence of coffee. The rub in all of this is like you said, just what are they doing with all the information? I'm not going to try and speculate, because I could come up with at least a dozen answers from benign to tinfoil hat territory lol. Like I said in a previous post, it's best to err on the side of caution today and be smart about where or to whom, your data is going.

 

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"panopticon"? You guys sound better way stoned than I could ever attempt to sound sober, but I thought of this thread when I read a Yahoo headline that Vizio, an electronics firm making televisions, was fined for observing what you watch and which DVD's you play, and sending the info back to the company.

It took me five seconds (just about) to remember that any app on Google asks permissions to view your contacts, your camera, use your microphone, and see which files you have.

So it's OK (I suppose) if they include a biggie disclosure statement no one reads saying they look at everything and you agree or better send the phone back.

I had another example but it got lost in my mind..."They see everything" pretty much covers it.

Now the question is, what they DO with all that information, and if the changing morals of a society should make you very careful (or at least more circumspect) what you proudly announce in your sig. And maybe how easy it is for political enemies to fish out any dirt from the

internet-well on people they don't happen to like or are competing against.

I like this place, kind of, it's where a lot of mods are.

And I hope they care about issues like this, more than where a post belongs, but that's just a humble opinion, not a declaratory statement, and it should not be viewed as an overall point of view on my life. Void where prohibited. E Pluribus Unum. E Plebnista

 

Recently i flew to Hamburg for work reasons and then flew back so i had to pass through customs and the relevant security checks like having my baggage scanned and having to go through a body scanner, not much fun but not terribley inconvenient either and i accept all of this as i dont really want to be on a plane that explodes (which statistically is a very small chance to begin with before we do anything to try and reduce it)

 

Now i could make the case that this was totally unnecessary and unwarranted as i have no criminal convictions and i've never associated with people that have then gone on to blow up planes but i don't as i understand its porportional to the security risk (and as i said i dont want to be on a plane that explodes)

 

I accept a little bit less liberty for the sake of safety/security and i'm fairly confident others feel this way as i didn't see a single person kicking up a fuss as i went through customs/security - i know some people from the US would now like to quote the line from one of there foundering fathers about how people that are willing to give up liberty for security are intitled to neither and i would counter that with the world being a different place to when the words were said (what 200-300 years ago?)

 

Now that the back story is said my question is quite simple - why isn't internet surveillance looked at in the same way by the people that have concerns about it?

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Now that the back story is said my question is quite simple - why isn't internet surveillance looked at in the same way by the people that have concerns about it?

 

It is? Are you asking why people are making a fuss over the TSA or are you implying that everyone that's upset over internet spying is just throwing a fit? Because I'll tell you that it's taken pretty seriously by many knowledgeable and influential people. If you're asking why it's not brought up enough, well like I said earlier, it's unfortunately become one of those facts of life kind of things everyone just takes for granted anymore. Just like getting your junk felt up by an overpaid TSA goon lol. I do have suspicion though that people quite literally believe that if "terrorists" are not being spied on 24/7, they'd act out at any moment and we would have global anarchy etc. etc.

 

 

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Now that the back story is said my question is quite simple - why isn't internet surveillance looked at in the same way by the people that have concerns about it?

 

It is? Are you asking why people are making a fuss over the TSA or are you implying that everyone that's upset over internet spying is just throwing a fit? Because I'll tell you that it's taken pretty seriously by many knowledgeable and influential people. If you're asking why it's not brought up enough, well like I said earlier, it's unfortunately become one of those facts of life kind of things everyone just takes for granted anymore. Just like getting your junk felt up by an overpaid TSA goon lol. I do have suspicion though that people quite literally believe that if "terrorists" are not being spied on 24/7, they'd act out at any moment and we would have global anarchy etc. etc.

 

 

 

the question mark you have put after your first two words there is throwing me - there is no attempted implication in my question it is meant literally as its typed and to be fair there have been a fair few attacks within europe lately that mean the average joe most likely see's increased security as a reassurance rather than a threat (haven't been in the UK but i recognise there is a potential for bias here)

 

Now for a UK example the recent spying charter passed says that a ISP must keep records of the sites visited by an IP for 12 months - not quite sure how that's useful myself but that's what the law that was passed said as i recall (again little bit stoned/drunk so not going to guarentee :) )

 

I suppose in a different way what i'm trying to ask is what level of risk reduction to a society as a whole justifies a breach of the privacy of the society?

 

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They (terrorists) act out anyway. They wield machetes at the louvre, for example.

In a weird story I'm not sure I read correctly, Trump said he was mad that terrorism was underreported.

I'd prefer it wasn't reported at all. ever.

And if the US or whoever has been spying on the internet 24/7 for years, that didn't stop Snowden or Assange.

And they still don't have metal detectors at banks or machine-gun-toting security guards.

 I'm not a speechwriter so this might look a little disjointed, and typos top it off to make it look cracked.

Hell with it. Nevermind, I pointed out a news story about Vizio,

You try stuff, call on nationalism and patriotism to justify walls and machine guns and underpaid guards playing with batons threateningly, and I say nothing, it's up to you (God help us)

 

Edit (sort of) it isn't people looking out for your safety I'm worried about.

 

It's people abusing the right to do nefarious things. Like pissed off employees of security firms.

And people manipulating the very systems you put into place to make it easier to monitor terrorists,

to then abuse that system and extort or to manipulate politics.

 

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I suppose in a different way what i'm trying to ask is what level of risk reduction to a society as a whole justifies a breach of the privacy of the society?

 

 

Ah ok I see what you're asking m8. Well I'd say a better place to start would be the society asking themselves, honestly asking themselves that is, why they are experiencing all this blow-back in the form of terrorism. No stupid phrases like "they hate our freedoms!" or "it's a modern day Jihad!", to justify it either. Instead looking at things like extreme sanctioning, illegal invasions, targeted murders, regime change imperialism, and a whole mess of shitty foreign policy that is fostering hate and resentment that boils over into attack. Once those elephants are out of the room, then we can talk weighing privacy vs security otherwise it's just gumming up holes in a sinking ship imo.

 

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No need for a lowly peasant, who's content living his life as a lowly peasant, to worry about whether or not he's being watched while "porning" on the nets. He should be more worried about whether or not he'll be able to access his porn in the future... But you never know... a government might need its scapegoat...

 

By the way, in some countries, possessing porn which includes anything other than straight sex is a crime. I'm not sure if it's "missionary only" though. One day you may also have to destroy your "weird porn" archives, if you choose your governments unwisely.

 

i've enjoyed your posts because you are genuinely passionate, and fact related. i haven't seen you post any bull yet. they did try to ban encryption last year or the year before. i remember because i was trucking across the 48 continental us states and all i heard was NPR radio talking about all of this, and some bill obama passed about the internet.

 

however, once you have good encryption software, not the bull they include in windows 10.. like this: https://www.grc.com/misc/truecrypt/truecrypt.htm (version 7.1a near the bottom of the page) then you don't have to worry about it. because it's encrypted. and you can't prove illegal content if you can't decrypt it in your lifetime. so there's no proof, especially if you only use it on offline only systems with no smart tv's, phones or nanobots in the room (they have incredibly small robots that could potentially use imaging now.. it's used in medical).

 

but despite wanting to argue that people will find a way, the window is becoming smaller and smaller. windows 10 is the key really. there's already computer systems with 3rd party proprietary software the police use somewhere out west like california that crawl social media and general internet to assign people 'risk levels' and profile so that when police are called out they already know what the potential risk is. it's calculated with other data like in other precincts i read they have simpler software that determines crime prediction based on history of the area, times, and other crazy stuff.

 

we've always been in a time of transition. it's just at the stage of transition that we fear most. the stage where things are taken too far and we're left wondering if anything significant will happen or not. makes me think of v for vendetta meets idiocracy meets surrogates meets minority report..

 

/* edit: and if you're really paranoid before the big changes come, then you can use secure mutli step wipers to clean drives and then run https://www.piriform.com/recuva/download just to see what you can recover. and for those asking if there's anything to do about google spying on you (and yes they are and do dirty things, like the screenwise project was their most honest attempt at it) then, simply use a no-script addon for your browswer and don't allow any scripts at all except for what you really need. it's painful but to me, it's worth it because i'm not getting any money or comfort out of their monopoly of the internet. their search engine isn't even that good any more with the filter bubbles. they tell you what results you get, not all of the best results you want.

 

so, then you have the os problem, well.. pentesting distros can run entirely in ram without touching the hard disc and can easily change the mac addy, like ubuntu uses ifconfig, so that they can't even prove what computer hardware was used.*/

 

however, the best thing is to just keep your nose clean and roll with the punches.

 

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