PAH - And you get a slave! (see download section)

[Musje]

This mod is obviously not meant to be lore-friendly.

 

I have thought about a mod to bring slavery underground to some extent. Ages ago I made an enslavement mod using S3 (Skyrim Slavery System) that was supposed to be lore friendly: only certain shady people would buy them, and dragging a slave through town in chains brought the guards down on you, and an untrained slave with no chains might run and cry for help if they spotted other people, so it was a lot harder to catch, move and sell slaves.

 

I'd love a mod that works like the Civil War thing: the more slaves you sell to rich people, jarls and influentual people, the more quests you do, the more slavery becomes accepted. People don't question you or turn their heads anymore if you bring a slave in chains to market, perhaps a slaver ship puts into Solitude or Dawnstar hoping to do some trade, etc.  A Jarl will organize a slave market, not in town at first but near a forced labor camp out of town, taking a cut of the profits. Holds will take to capturing people from opposing factions and keep or sell them as slaves. Plenty of ideas but it's a lot of work. I already spent bloody ages on making those 4 quests in Home Sweet Home work

[Versh]

Honestly I don't see the slavery in a fictional world like tamriel so lore-unfriendly.

 

First of all: were speaking about a mod, that by itself is a modification of the base game, so "fuck it! THIS now exist!"

 

Then as general "lore" (and I'm not an expert): you could already see some very dark contents in the base game (but not called this way to avoid to put a higher pegi tag on)

Vampire thrall -> Slave that get eated (Violence, gore)

Necromancer thrall -> slave that get killed-reanimed-rekilled(Violence, gore)

Silver Blood vs Companions -> werewolves how get stronger eating human hearts (Gore gore gore)

The entire trade of the magical items -> based on the use of Souls both from animal and humans (Violence, gore, cime against humanity)

Dwemer and snow elves -> slavery

Falmer -> cannibalism

Bandit camp with people caged and burned alive -> Jackpot

 

Just not to speak that actually there's a civil war in Skyrim, that means people that kills eachother in the same villages, rape, slaughter, killing etc.

 

The fact is that, as said: to 'avoid' to use a pegi higher bethesda created a "Civil war featured by unicorns and mini ponies"; all the strong themes are cutted off or treated in a very light way.

 

 

In any case there's a lot of possibility to insert a lore friendly slavery both with faction pro-slavery (Blackbriar, Jarl of Falkreath, Jarl of dawnstar, Silver-blood, Daedra, Vampires, Easy empire company, etc.) and against-slavery (temple of mara, Jarl of morthal, companions, etc.)

Also a lot of 'factions' that could be put in one or another category dinamically (ex: The thieves guild, Whiterun, Mage guild, etc.)

 

 

So I think that a discussion about slavery lore friendly or not is a bit pointless.

 

 

 

Anyway Musje,

I think that you're getting the whole thing of the "pro-enslavement evolution" in a complicated way.

There are easier way to do that.

[CliftonJD]

Honestly I don't see the slavery in a fictional world like tamriel so lore-unfriendly.

 

First of all: were speaking about a mod, that by itself is a modification of the base game, so "fuck it! THIS now exist!"

 

 

 

Then as general "lore" (and I'm not an expert): you could already see some very dark contents in the base game (but not called this way to avoid to put a higher pegi tag on)

Vampire thrall -> Slave that get eated (Violence, gore)

Necromancer thrall -> slave that get killed-reanimed-rekilled(Violence, gore)

Silver Blood vs Companions -> werewolves how get stronger eating human hearts (Gore gore gore)

The entire trade of the magical items -> based on the use of Souls both from animal and humans (Violence, gore, cime against humanity)

Dwemer and snow elves -> slavery

Falmer -> cannibalism

Bandit camp with people caged and burned alive -> Jackpot

 

Just not to speak that actually there's a civil war in Skyrim, that means people that kills eachother in the same villages, rape, slaughter, killing etc.

 

The fact is that, as said: to 'avoid' to use a pegi higher bethesda created a "Civil war featured by unicorns and mini ponies"; all the strong themes are cutted off or treated in a very light way.

 

 

In any case there's a lot of possibility to insert a lore friendly slavery both with faction pro-slavery (Blackbriar, Jarl of Falkreath, Jarl of dawnstar, Silver-blood, Daedra, Vampires, Easy empire company, etc.) and against-slavery (temple of mara, Jarl of morthal, companions, etc.)

Also a lot of 'factions' that could be put in one or another category dinamically (ex: The thieves guild, Whiterun, Mage guild, etc.)

 

 

 

So I think that a discussion about slavery lore friendly or not is a bit pointless.

 

 

 

Anyway Musje,

I think that you're getting the whole thing of the "pro-enslavement evolution" in a complicated way.

There are easier way to do that.

i like the pamphlet i saw in simple slavery:

 

my goal is to make it just as legal for player slaver as other mods here have done for player slave

[Versh]

 

.....

i like the pamphlet i saw in simple slavery:

slavery parchment.JPG

 

my goal is to make it just as legal for player slaver as other mods here have done for player slave

 

 

 

Yes, that's is what I'm talking about: It takes no effort to justify as Lore-friendly something, it just need to think a bit about.

 

No one said that the dwemer uses falmer to breed with the chaurus (and neither that Chaurus reproduce with strange japanese-tentacle monster that appear from the ground), but mod like estrus chaurus are well inserted (sorry for the joke) in the game.

 

Then you can call the Npc/pc slave or servant, it doesn't really matter (as example: in the medieval the Servant, the conscripts, serfs, bondman, they're all hypocritical ways to define different type of slavery)

 

 

Said so, every mod/game has to respond to some specifics, for example:

Something to do -> obviously the Mods are instrument about something that increase the things to do in a game.

Learning curve -> A mod/game has more fun when you have to master the mechanics (for example: training the slaves in Pah/Pahe).

Character grow -> all the mods must pointed to increase/enrich the PC in some way.

 

As the mod respond to one or more of this specifics it's easier that a player accept some forcings in the lore.

 

 

So:

I want to add a Slavery system to the game?

Something to do -> The PC can kidnap people, train them and then sold

Learning curve -> Which buyier will buy on a better price that slave? how can I train them more efficently?

Character grow -> The PC get more money selling, the player learn to use the slavery camp, the pc have some trained slaves to use in various tasks.

 

Lore justification:

"By order of the High King Tyogg, as mesure to reduce the number of bandits and deserters overgrowd after the great war against the Aldmeri Dominion, was decided to allow at the discretion of the jarls, for the Bandits captured, forced works to repays the damage caused, instead to obstruct the jails (and reduce the number of executions)."

 

Then the jarls start to interpret in large way the meaning of that, and:

Markart used the Cidhna mine for that

Falkreath start to interpret "forced works to repays the damage caused" -> Doesn't mean that must work here.. I could rent they to work elsewhere

The jarl of Dawnstar: why the Bandits yes and the debtor not? They all should repay their debts

Etc. Etc.

 

Seeing his decree completely twisted Tyogg tried to called to order the jarls but Ulfric killied him before he could, in the general chaos the things are degenerated with the civil war and there's not an authority that could solve the situation because the Jarls need an high king by tradition, to ratify a decree [even with the intervention of the Emperor].

 

 

It's forced? yes, a bit (but nothing compared to "Become archmage in 2 weeks")

It's lore friendly? yes, enough

Could you evolve this to allow all sort of things? Yes...

 

 

EDIT: and with this basics you also have the possibility to manage the evolution of the slavery in skyrim:

Falkreath -> allow the slave trade

Markarth -> Only labor slaves

Whiterun -> No slavery

Rifter -> Officially Against slavery (temple of mara), but Blackbriar and Rataway with an underworld

Windhelm -> Racial Slavery, instread of prison (or military conscription)

etc. etc.

 

It's just a matter of create a set of rules for the various holds, and allow the variation of those rules depending on various things

Define the behaviour of the npcs based on their faction, the hold orientation and their morality (for example: belethor[Aka. Faction Vendor with low morality] will buy slave contract [not real slaves] even if Witherun is neutral to slavery, because he's an asshole)

And at last define the relationship between vanilla factions and the Pro/Against Slavery faction.

It's all about define a chart point, piece of cake.

 

Then the system go on by itself.

 

Honestly could become a good extension between Slaverun, Pahe and Slsf.

 

Anyway I think that this is going a bit off topic, sorry.

 

[CliftonJD]

 

 

 

 

.....

i like the pamphlet i saw in simple slavery:

slavery parchment.JPG

 

my goal is to make it just as legal for player slaver as other mods here have done for player slave

 

 

 

Yes, that's is what I'm talking about: It takes no effort to justify as Lore-friendly something, it just need to think a bit about.

 

No one said that the dwemer uses falmer to breed with the chaurus (and neither that Chaurus reproduce with strange japanese-tentacle monster that appear from the ground), but mod like estrus chaurus are well inserted (sorry for the joke) in the game.

 

Then you can call the Npc/pc slave or servant, it doesn't really matter (as example: in the medieval the Servant, the conscripts, serfs, bondman, they're all hypocritical ways to define different type of slavery)

 

 

Said so, every mod/game has to respond to some specifics, for example:

Something to do -> obviously the Mods are instrument about something that increase the things to do in a game.

Learning curve -> A mod/game has more fun when you have to master the mechanics (for example: training the slaves in Pah/Pahe).

Character grow -> all the mods must pointed to increase/enrich the PC in some way.

 

As the mod respond to one or more of this specifics it's easier that a player accept some forcings in the lore.

 

 

So:

I want to add a Slavery system to the game?

Something to do -> The PC can kidnap people, train them and then sold

Learning curve -> Which buyier will buy on a better price that slave? how can I train them more efficently?

Character grow -> The PC get more money selling, the player learn to use the slavery camp, the pc have some trained slaves to use in various tasks.

 

Lore justification:

"By order of the High King Tyogg, as mesure to reduce the number of bandits and deserters overgrowd after the great war against the Aldmeri Dominion, was decided to allow at the discretion of the jarls, for the Bandits captured, forced works to repays the damage caused, instead to obstruct the jails (and reduce the number of executions)."

 

Then the jarls start to interpret in large way the meaning of that, and:

Markart used the Cidhna mine for that

Falkreath start to interpret "forced works to repays the damage caused" -> Doesn't mean that must work here.. I could rent they to work elsewhere

The jarl of Dawnstar: why the Bandits yes and the debtor not? They all should repay their debts

Etc. Etc.

 

Seeing his decree completely twisted Tyogg tried to called to order the jarls but Ulfric killied him before he could, in the general chaos the things are degenerated with the civil war and there's not an authority that could solve the situation because the Jarls need an high king by tradition, to ratify a decree [even with the intervention of the Emperor].

 

 

It's forced? yes, a bit (but nothing compared to "Become archmage in 2 weeks")

It's lore friendly? yes, enough

Could you evolve this to allow all sort of things? Yes...

 

 

EDIT: and with this basics you also have the possibility to manage the evolution of the slavery in skyrim:

Falkreath -> allow the slave trade

Markarth -> Only labor slaves

Whiterun -> No slavery

Rifter -> Officially Against slavery (temple of mara), but Blackbriar and Rataway with an underworld

Windhelm -> Racial Slavery, instread of prison (or military conscription)

etc. etc.

 

It's just a matter of create a set of rules for the various holds, and allow the variation of those rules depending on various things

Define the behaviour of the npcs based on their faction, the hold orientation and their morality (for example: belethor[Aka. Faction Vendor with low morality] will buy slave contract [not real slaves] even if Witherun is neutral to slavery, because he's an asshole)

And at last define the relationship between vanilla factions and the Pro/Against Slavery faction.

It's all about define a chart point, piece of cake.

 

Then the system go on by itself.

 

 

Honestly could become a good extension between Slaverun, Pahe and Slsf.

 

Anyway I think that this is going a bit off topic, sorry.

 

oops, you forgot sd

likely pickup on slaverun ideas much later on or as an extension

great mod, but i like the binary system. on or off, its legal or its not....but it sounds like you might be telling me that's part of my problem trying to make it legal is that we don't have a binary world of black and white even in skyrim there's too many shades of grey in between that need to be handled

 

[Versh]

 

....

 

oops, you forgot sd

likely pickup on slaverun ideas much later on or as an extension

great mod, but i like the binary system. on or off, its legal or its not....but it sounds like you might be telling me that's part of my problem trying to make it legal is that we don't have a binary world of black and white even in skyrim there's too many shades of grey in between that need to be handled

 

 

 

Sorry, I don't understand if you like the on/off thing or if you don't (you wrote you like it, but you seem to regret it later on ), also I must have express myself badly:

No, I'm telling that it's quite easy to create a lore friendly system of slavery for the whole Skyrim with different rules and varables based on locations.

 

It's only a matter of some rules, some faction, a point chart to structure the behavior of the Npcs and some scenes, various interaction depending on the Npcs of reference and you'll have an "Immersive slavery" mod. (it's like a light Slaverun reloaded, builded as framework)

 

The Slsf could manage the Comment lines, and give datas useful for interactions and also define the Roletypes

The Pahe (and Pah - aygas, Pah - hsh), could manage the activity of the PC as Slaver

Slaverun by Kenjoka could give a ready to use quest of expansion, to interact with the scenarios (and the PC as slave management)

Slavegirl by hydragorgon could give some ready to use Npcs to animate the world

 

The different holds could works with different Slavery Law (or against law), and those rules could change depending on various interactions, etc.

For example: Slaves must be naked/wear specific devices/tats/clothing, Slaver must have a license, trader can/cannot buy/sell slaves/slave gear

Like a complicated version of the enforcer of slaverun reloaded.

 

 

About SD+ I think that is on a different type of slavery, here were speaking about a Legal/Illegal trades of humans between the ''''''''''''civilized'''''''''''' people (there's no a right number of quotation marks to make that phrase sound lesser ugly than a vagina with mustaches), instead the SD+ is by itself a form of illegal slavery, where a bandit kidnap the PC and keept her/him against the law.

 

 

Anyway, NOW where obviously out of topic, we should go elsewhere to talk about if interested in this topic.

[pinky6225]

I've added this mod and i have a slave that is at 100 in everything but sex and anger but i am not seeing any extra dialogues with npcs, been trying the ones in whiterun, what is the dialogue i should be getting to be able to sell a slave and which npcs are known to work?

 

thanks

 

edit: tried some more npc's and found the dialogue about being interested in a servant, as an idea - what about a collar or other peice of clothing to indicate a slave is for sale and then the npcs approach you instead of us approaching them

[Musje]

I've added this mod and i have a slave that is at 100 in everything but sex and anger but i am not seeing any extra dialogues with npcs, been trying the ones in whiterun, what is the dialogue i should be getting to be able to sell a slave and which npcs are known to work?

 

thanks

 

edit: tried some more npc's and found the dialogue about being interested in a servant, as an idea - what about a collar or other peice of clothing to indicate a slave is for sale and then the npcs approach you instead of us approaching them

 

The initial dialogue will be the same, but the followup is different. You don't get more options, they will either buy the slave or not, but with more training they will buy it for different reasons i.e. as a personal servant instead of a worker slave, and the dialogue reflects that. Some of that is also shown in the slaves behaviour but not much, at the moment the behavior is all pretty basic. And merchants / innkeepers will only buy slaves at a certain level of training. So for an inn: <50 submission and respect = no sale.  At greater values they will serve drinks in the inn.  With Sex > 50 they will also service the customers from time to time.

 

Maybe I can add more dialogue options to reflect the training and the client's desires, instead of it being intransparent like it is now, that would make it more interesting. So "Perhaps you would like a strong worker for your fields?" and "Does this little lass take your fancy?"

 

I really like your idea about having slaves on display, and I will see what I can do with it. HSH already uses slave amulets to mark a slave for auction, I could simply use those.

[Versh]

Uhm... If you want to add some complexity on the sold scene the original pah had a good selling scene where you could take some inspiration.

 

Also considerind that they're all Npcs, you may add also a counter response, like:

 

Buyer: Slave, are you trained to be respectful?

Slave: Why don't you p&$"%&/ in your "£$%%&/& You S&%/£$£)##*§° piece of *§é§)=(%&$$%$ of a bunch of §*é§/(!

Buyer(to the PC):  YOU should pay me to take this...

[johnny jimson]

update?

[CliftonJD]

update?

 

not yet, had to fix something found in hsh and an auction due for update soon as well

[johnny jimson]

 

update?

 

not yet, had to fix something found in hsh and an auction due for update soon as well

 

thnx. looking forward to it. got a rough eta?

[Musje]

No

I've made some small improvements but mainly been busy with HSH and testing of PAHE. Once the new auction code is erady for HSH, I will pick this mod up again

[pinky6225]

Does anybody else have the sale dialogue now showing all the time? i started a new game and have zero slaves but i have the dialogue "ever dreamt etc" with every NPC i've spoken to

[CliftonJD]

Does anybody else have the sale dialogue now showing all the time? i started a new game and have zero slaves but i have the dialogue "ever dreamt etc" with every NPC i've spoken to

yes, I think I've even sold a slave to the statue of mara (alternate start statue) during 1 of my test runs

 

another test run i'd enslave a prison overhaul bounty hunter who then calls for backup - the bounty hunter is then sold to his backup before enslaving the backup as well

[Musje]

 

Does anybody else have the sale dialogue now showing all the time? i started a new game and have zero slaves but i have the dialogue "ever dreamt etc" with every NPC i've spoken to

yes, I think I've even sold a slave to the statue of mara (alternate start statue) during 1 of my test runs

 

 

Lol. Well if you are a statue I can see how a slave would be handy.

 

It's true: the dialogue will appear for anyone not on the exclusion list (jarls, guards, kids, priests and some othres). I haven't figured out how to check for eligible slaves in your posession in the conditions for the dialogue. At the moment, that check is performed when you select the "Ever dreamt" line. The check could be performed periodically but I have to be careful about the impact on performance.

[CliftonJD]

 

 

Does anybody else have the sale dialogue now showing all the time? i started a new game and have zero slaves but i have the dialogue "ever dreamt etc" with every NPC i've spoken to

yes, I think I've even sold a slave to the statue of mara (alternate start statue) during 1 of my test runs

 

 

Lol. Well if you are a statue I can see how a slave would be handy.

 

It's true: the dialogue will appear for anyone not on the exclusion list (jarls, guards, kids, priests and some othres). I haven't figured out how to check for eligible slaves in your posession in the conditions for the dialogue. At the moment, that check is performed when you select the "Ever dreamt" line. The check could be performed periodically but I have to be careful about the impact on performance.

 

the dialogue could check for factions of the slave:

• true the current release doesn't have those factions available to check, but...
• you can reuse the faction data being setup for the auctions
• with any luck all of this should be at your disposal next update to pahe

[Musje]

The difficulty is in showing the first part of the dialogue or hiding it if there are no nearby slaves. At the moment it is always shown for all eligible buyers, and choosing it will result in a scan of nearby PAHE or HSH slaves. The next part of the dialogue shows those slaves, if any. I cannot determine if slaved are nearby through factions. My idea is to perform the scan regularly (every 10-30 seconds), and disable the dialogue if no slaves are found nearby. That also eliminates the current issue: if you click too quickly past the first part of tbe dialogue, the detection script will not have found all slaves (or even any) and the list of slaves for sale will be incomplete.

 

The second part of the dialogue, when choosing one slave for the potential buyer to consider, will calculate the value and whether or not the buyer will be interested, from the factions and training levels of that particular slave. Hence the weird 2 step approach in that part of the dialogue: a script needs to be run before the buyer gives his verdict. it's clunky but necessary for the fact that Skyrim won't let us run a script before evaluating tbe conditions for a dialogue topic.

[CliftonJD]

The difficulty is in showing the first part of the dialogue or hiding it if there are no nearby slaves. At the moment it is always shown for all eligible buyers, and choosing it will result in a scan of nearby PAHE or HSH slaves. The next part of the dialogue shows those slaves, if any. I cannot determine if slaved are nearby through factions. My idea is to perform the scan regularly (every 10-30 seconds), and disable the dialogue if no slaves are found nearby. That also eliminates the current issue: if you click too quickly past the first part of tbe dialogue, the detection script will not have found all slaves (or even any) and the list of slaves for sale will be incomplete.

 

The second part of the dialogue, when choosing one slave for the potential buyer to consider, will calculate the value and whether or not the buyer will be interested, from the factions and training levels of that particular slave. Hence the weird 2 step approach in that part of the dialogue: a script needs to be run before the buyer gives his verdict. it's clunky but necessary for the fact that Skyrim won't let us run a script before evaluating tbe conditions for a dialogue topic.

ask einarr some time to show you his mod that checks for pah from a script then checks the return value of the script for the dialogue condition so if no pah, the player doesn't get the dialogue his mod adds to enslave

 

there's also a mod like submit that goes by another name, but has pah enslavement dialogues

 

[pinky6225]

The difficulty is in showing the first part of the dialogue or hiding it if there are no nearby slaves. At the moment it is always shown for all eligible buyers, and choosing it will result in a scan of nearby PAHE or HSH slaves. The next part of the dialogue shows those slaves, if any. I cannot determine if slaved are nearby through factions. My idea is to perform the scan regularly (every 10-30 seconds), and disable the dialogue if no slaves are found nearby. That also eliminates the current issue: if you click too quickly past the first part of tbe dialogue, the detection script will not have found all slaves (or even any) and the list of slaves for sale will be incomplete.

 

The second part of the dialogue, when choosing one slave for the potential buyer to consider, will calculate the value and whether or not the buyer will be interested, from the factions and training levels of that particular slave. Hence the weird 2 step approach in that part of the dialogue: a script needs to be run before the buyer gives his verdict. it's clunky but necessary for the fact that Skyrim won't let us run a script before evaluating tbe conditions for a dialogue topic.

 

Rather than try and detect whether there are slaves and eligible buyers around (which i would have thought would increase papyrus load) and show/hide the dialogue based on that could you not move the dialogue to the slave to start the process, i.e. you tell the slave they are for sale/"look good i'm trying to sell you" which then enables the dialogue with the npc's

[Nazzzgul666]

I'm not sure if you're still looking for ideas, and i have to admit, i've never really played with PAH, i've installed it once, didn't really get it how to do things and removed again because i was only slightly interested anyways. So i don't really know what's possible there, but here some things i'd like to have if i give it another try:

 

1. Pony girl farm. There's a book in the devious manual, it's been a while since i read it myself, it was a nice description how to train and handle pony girls, maybe you know it, if not and you'd like to do it i'll copy it. It would be awesome if it's possible to train them, but if that's too much, a stable where you can sell them would already be nice. Another nice addition would be a race court for the ponies, maybe with the possibility to set bets. Maybe they'll live there with some real stallions. Might or might not be connected with  

 

2. Milk cow farm, a bit different than Versh suggested, more like the one in sexlab stories. A real farm, where they work a bit and some MME/ZaZ milk pumps and they might get milked manually as well.

 

Player houses are another thing i never tried that much, i've always been happy with one of the two bathing luxury suits so i don't really have any suggestions for farms you might use, but maybe somebody else knows one. If nothing shows up, you see the vanilla one used in sexlab stories shortly after you leave Riften through the westgate, maybe that one could be used without creating a confilct.

[Musje]

Those are nice ideas, I dont have much time for modding at the moment but I'll give this some thought.

I know the DD book. Plus what I remember from a real Pony event, lol

[MortiferusX]

Have you plans to upload an update next time?

[Guest Long John]

@Musje - Could this please be placed in the download file section and/or given some screenshots to give an idea of the content?

[Musje]

I'll do that with the next update