Dark Souls Combat v1.5.3

[Guest]

 You mention attack canceling. I know that this was a feature in tk Dodge and to a degree it is also a feature of DkS2. I am not a big fan of that feature. I think it works against the idea of purposeful choices in combat. In fact, the issue is not that this mod's rolls can't cancel attack animations (they can; all animations registered with FNIS in the way I used can cancel any animation in fact), I actually made a deliberate choice to disallow this in the script. DkS2's "roll-punching" scarred me enough However, if this is what the majority of users want, then I can remove that check.

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer me !

 

Yeah for PVP the feint system can be a pain.

But on DS2 you can only cancel a attack at the very begin or the end of the attack window.

So IMO is not too OP.

 

I just think the attack window on Skyrim is too long.

So the PC responsiveness feels way too slow.

IMHO would be nice to stop attacks at the very start or at the end of the attack window.

The Attack Cancel mod I mentioned offers a hardcore option that only cancel attacks at the start of the attack.

I think is a good compromise that makes combat a bit less clunky.

 

On mod integration.

The NPC/PC parried state is not really a bleedout state right?

I'´m using the mod Better vampires and it enables you to feed on NPCs on the bleedout state but it does not work on parried NPCs.

 

Lastly the mod Dual Wield Parrying Reimplementation added proper bash and powerbash to dual wield.

But I can't trigger a parry from its bash.

[TheDriedFinger]

@Ashra XIII: NPC mages always continually back away, don't they? And, so I feel like if you've caught up to them, you've earned it. In any case, I've always felt that mages are inherently more powerful than pure-melee in the Vanilla game. I mean, there is no intrinsic defense against magic with regular armor. To get magic defense, you need enchanted gear, which is the domain of mages, so... kind of weird that way.

 

@Mdy: It's a single-tap. You optionally move in some direction while quickly pressing and releasing the roll key to cause a roll in that approximate direction. Otherwise, simply quickly press and release for a backstep. I would prefer not to involve QTEs, because I don't like them in games, but could you describe in more detail how the system feels random? The parry window is not random. It's highly specific, set to occur between certain animation events during a attack.

 

@bola08: Attack Cancel takes an approach to achieving what it does that is not something that could do to get the effect you're asking for.

 

If I simply remove the check, attacks will be cancel-able at any point in the animation and the only way I can think of to only allow attacks to be cancel-able early would undoubtedly cause a slower response time to rolling, which I don't think I can afford.

 

No, the Bleedout is induced; it doesn't follow the regular game behavior of occurring only when an NPC is at low health. I'm sort of relieved that you can't do that, because it is very important in those moments that nothing unexpected occur. Working with causing animations to run when they're not intended to, it's very difficult to anticipate and account for any deviations.

 

I will need to figure out how to get that mod to work with mine, though I'm not sure why that would be the case.

[TheDriedFinger]

I tried out the mod and did some testing to see what was going on. It seems that, as far as the scripting engine is concerned, the bashes from that mod don't count as bashes. Unfortunately, that means that I don't know what to do to allow that mod's bashes to function as parry attempts.

[Feliks]

Hey TDF just some quick feedback:

 

Parry/riposte in general seems to be working for me, with a few odd points where creatures or npcs (generally creatures) stagger, don't take damage on the hit, and then return to fighting instead of getting riposted. I assume this is me jumping the gun and hitting ahead of the riposte window, a problem I still suffer from in DS2 coincidentally.

 

Haven't really had a good test on backstabbing, I generally play a rogue/thief so my power attacks from behind generally kill.

 

The poise maximum stagger window (set to 3) doesn't quite seem to be functioning, on more than one occasion I've spent quite a while stun-locked, thank god for tank followers. 

 

Additionally I've staggered when not being hit, at first I thought this was happening when I attacked enemies, but I'm starting to think it's more lag on my end. 

 

I've been parried (at least, I think) several times but never actually riposted yet, not sure if it's an issue detecting the hit, or just dumb luck on my end.

 

I was thinking that maybe you should take the skill in light or heavy armor and that first perk level into account for poise as well, to make light armor more useful with the new system.

Furthermore, would it be possible to implement a ring that increased poise or change how the equipment load is handled for rolling (I see roll weight is based on poise weight plus weapons, but no mention of where the upper limit comes from)? I was thinking about adding some DS rings to Skyrim, and thought it'd be neat to add Havel's or the wolf ring, considering those were the two I played with most in DS1.

[TheDriedFinger]

Can you explain that point on parry/ripostes a little bit more? I'm not sure what you're saying... Is it that the bash is causing them to stagger instead of go into the downed bleedout animation?

 

The stunlock limit does not apply to all staggers. That is to say that sometimes in the Vanilla game, staggers just occur on some hits, like bashes and power attacks. These don't count towards the stunlock limit; only the poise breaks caused by DSC do. And yes, there are a lot of calculations checks that need to be passed to fully process a hit, and for some the delay can be significant. I wish I didn't have to run so many checks for something that seems so simple, but we've seen the alternatives with mods that cause every hit to stagger (one problem with this of course is concentration spells infinitely staggering).

 

The NPCs' parry window on the player is a bit tighter than the player's window on them. So maybe, you've just been timing your hits well. If they do manage to parry you, sometimes they bash again, which will save you from a riposte.

 

WorshipTheSatan, one of the people who helped me test and develop the mod, suggested ideas like that, where poise might scale and roll thresholds would increase with stamina, but I want the calculation for these values to be easily understood by users. And perhaps more importantly, I want to emphasize the importance of choosing each piece of armor or weapon. What you've chosen is what you're stuck with in terms of the intrinsic properties of poise resist/damage and weight it gives you.

[crusher]

I'm currently on a magic-centric play-thru. But, last play-thru was pure melee. I'm looking forward trying DSC. I have been comparing the value of both Ultimate Combat and Deadly Combat where stuns w/stun-locks are critical to simulated melee combat (also pain/impact reaction to magic damage); with my current mod build everything is set to extreme difficulty, one-hit-kills being common, retreat (running away) being extremely important tactic.  So, if it adds difficulty then I have it installed, extending the time/risk value of all fights; it is also the fastest way to get into a Lovers Labs Modded, Death Alternative rabbit hole of quests. 

 

Have you considered adding this to magic as well? Or, as an option. The entire structure of DSC would improve the other half of skyrim combat styles  -- considerably.  

 

--Poise: to work with Magic Resist. Damage relative to magic school skill level (aka, weapon weight) 

 

--Crit Hits: use magic parry: a timed ward reflect with a follow up destruction dd spell, or melee attack window -- attached to Restoration School. Melee fighters with magic resist shields + armor would benefit from Magic Parry's reflect mechanic. Great for long duration dragon battles. Deadly Combat offers a reflect effect for well-timed wards. 

 

--Roll Mechanic: as twink, teleportation, phase-shift (blurred effect), would also work vs melee -- attached to Altercation School. Poise pool relative to degree of evade effect.  Would allow you to evade AOE attacks and effects. 

 

--Counter Damage: triggers while casting; received damage for both magic and melee doubles. 

 

Perhaps the script load could be conditional, to keep it light. Have magic equipped -- magic script attached. Have melee equipped -- get melee scripts. Spell Swords get the full monty. 

 

(aside, I believe Dual Wield Parry is a SKSE plugin, may have something to do with faster response time and different stagger structure)

 

 

[Guest]

I tried out the mod and did some testing to see what was going on. It seems that, as far as the scripting engine is concerned, the bashes from that mod don't count as bashes. Unfortunately, that means that I don't know what to do to allow that mod's bashes to function as parry attempts.

 

Yeah I had a feeling that it was a "pseudo bash" on that mod.

That's ok.

Dual Wield is already very much OP with blocking.

 

Also thanks a lot for the features of 1.3 !

Will be testing it in the next days!

Cheers in such a great mod!

[Mud]

Already got the rolling-only version out? You da best, TDF. 

[TheDriedFinger]

Are we talking about the same thing? When I was talking about attack canceling, I meant interrupting your own attack and rolling out of the start-up before you actually swing.

[TheDriedFinger]

I see. I don't have any knowledge of actually editing behavior files (I just let FNIS do the work; allowing FNIS to do it ensures compatibility with other mods).

@Crusher: I've read through your suggestions. Don't worry, I never ignore comments. I need some more time to figure things out.

[Guest]

Wow this mod gets better by the second!

 

Do you guys know if there is s good lockon mod for skyrim? To lock the camera on enemy?

[Mud]

The only one I know of is, well, Lock-On. But unfortunately for controller-using folk like me, both mods use LB + a direction for their functions and there aren't many other buttons one can bind and keep things fluid.

[Guest]

The only one I know of is, well, Lock-On. But unfortunately for controller-using folk like me, both mods use LB + a direction for their functions and there aren't many other buttons one can bind and keep things fluid.

 

Yeah I only know that one too.

I'm tracking it so hopefully if it get some more updates

[crusher]

I see. I don't have any knowledge of actually editing behavior files (I just let FNIS do the work; allowing FNIS to do it ensures compatibility with other mods).

@Crusher: I've read through your suggestions. Don't worry, I never ignore comments. I need some more time to figure things out.

 

 

Sorry for bloviating at you, I'm a melee combat nerd... (in the middle of a magic play-thru) been using DSC for last few days and all works really well -- the high risk of being stun locked for a magic user is just what's needed. (mod build is maxed 250, with HQ enb, and all the relevant texture mods)

 

Thanks for the great mod. 

[Anatriax]

PerMa compatibility? or does it conflict? Just curious. If there are no conflicts, I'll test and add to my guide.

[TheDriedFinger]

Explicit conflicts? No. But implicit ones (i.e. mods trying to do similar or opposite things at the same time)? Probably. Just this one I suspect: PerMa has a stagger mechanic, right? You'll end up getting staggered more often than either mod intends. You could disable one of them. Hint: Consider disabling the RNG stagger mechanic first. Guess which mod that comes from... Sorry, got all bitter for a second... hehe...

[Anatriax]

It's all good  

Tbh, the only REAL reason PerMa is in my guide is because of the perks and reworks to leveling system... and that's been at the request of the community. I personally prefer SkyRe. LOL

[ZMods]

Just wanted to say I have been loving this mod, thanks for making it and updating it so much in a short space of time.

 

My only issues are that the roll/backstep refuses to work sometimes (which you did warn about, so I am not complaining) and that I have to be quite spammy with the button when it does, is it supposed to take a couple of button presses to initiate a roll/backstep?

 

Are you going to consider putting the stability mechanic in at all (where heavier shields reduce the stamina loss of receiving hits) or is that not part of your focus for this mod?

 

Anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to more updates.

 

 

[TheDriedFinger]

It's supposed to be a single button press (roll happens on release; the hold time has to be less than 200ms).

 

I would love to implement a stability mechanic. Just have to figure out how. Honestly, I didn't even know that the stamina consumption on a block didn't depend on what you're blocking with... Jesus! How little did BethSoft care about their game's combat?! Dear Lord! Might as well block with my Iron Shield, Daedric's overrated! Oh wait... it gives me a higher Armor Rating for more passive def... for some reason!

 

Wow... am I'm bitter today... Positive thoughts! 

[shazor]

I really love this mod. Finally some minor dark souls element in skyrim! The riposte feature often bugs but its still a great mod! Oh and you maybe should rename it "Dovah Souls" or so for a more fitting name 

[crusher]

@ TheDriedFinger, What you've done is add fundamental elements of skill-based combat to skyrim -- not a simple feat. I uses "High Level Enemies" and "Community Uncapper" to remove the stink of stats and levels where progress happens horizontally with active use of abilities -- train by use. Everything hopefully stays equal level and equally difficult. You'll have notice the huge mistake Witcher3 made, if you've been following their forums, mixing stats centric design with skill-based combat -- was a huge mistake.

 

in other matters, watching your mod in action was a hoot as the Greymore fort mob swept towards Whiterun stunlocking everything in their path. Skyrim takes another step towards reality based, skill-based combat simulation.

[macomaco]

dodge feature need to be more reactive... 1~2 sec is too long (but it seem to be more reactive in the full version mod, i use roll only)

roll need to be a little faster and give a better distance between you and your opponents... quick dodge make you invincible for a very quick time for esquive one attack, the rolling supposed to give you the possibility to quickly leave a dangerous radius.

[GrimReaper]

I have noticed that when fighting as or against werewolves you get staggered/stagger them all the time. Every hit basically. Not only that, but after the stagger ends werewolves are forced to play that stupid howl animation, giving enemies all the time they need to stagger the werewolf again, Rinse and Repeat. This mod basically makes the mission where you go with Farkas to retrieve some fragments from the Silverhand unplayable, because there's a scripted fight where he turns into a werewolf. Farkas wasn't able to get a single hit in, he just ket being staggered and howled afterwards. Had to kill the enemies with the console otherwise this fight wouldn't have ended.

[TheDriedFinger]

@macomaco: The dodging is about as reactive as it can possibly be. Consider that tk Dodge uses the developer included dodge animation events, so it does not need to run appropriate checks on the validity of playing the animation. It has the animation engine (much more quickly) do that. This is the peak of responsiveness as far as dodge mods using SKSE will go (the delay compared to the Script Dragon version of tk Dodge is just because of the speed of the OnKeyDown and OnKeyUp events). However, using animation variables, if the player does not have magic equipped, the roll/dodge part of my script runs almost as fast. A larger delay only occurs on backsteps and when magic is equipped simply because I could not find another applicable animation variable. Still, 1 to 2 seconds sounds quite excessive, though it would make sense if you were also running a number of other script-heavy mods (but compared to other mods like DUEL, this mod is relatively lighter, so you'd need to be running quite a number of script-heavy mods to cause that delay you're describing). The fact that you found the full mod ran faster than the roll-only version could be due to different testing environments (maybe you were in different parts of the game, maybe you were in a situation where the game was loading in some Actors at the time of, maybe you had more background programs running). But for sure, the 1 to 2 seconds is extremely odd. I mean, I'm playing on a 6-7 year old laptop and running streaming software, encoding video, on top of Skyrim as I play and my delay isn't nearly that bad.

[Guest]

Thanks for 1.4.1

Enabling the actions to play earlier is definitely a thumbs up IMO.

It gives a much more responsive fell in combat !

I think it might help remove the feeling of a script delay.

But it still fells like you can't really dodge right after a attack "visually" ends.

Backstep for me is the one that takes the longer to trigger after a attack.

Any chance you could dodge a second time also using this earlier window?

Right now to dodge/roll again takes some seconds.

 

One feature that I'm not sure if is possible but if you hold the block key while dodging could the PC rise up already in the block state?

Not sure if you cause more script strain.