Mass Outfit Redesign

[Myst42]

New changes.

Gonna upload later. Expecting some neckseam fixes.

Gonna paste what I said at Nexus since all that I said there runs here too. I need opinions

 

 

 

 

Real life has been a real b#tch these past weeks, but still I found the time to finally finish female armor part... hopefully for good.

Hugeass image ahead, it's a composition. full view for details plz

1st, I'm thinking of changing the name of the mod... I'm open to suggestions, maybe changing the word "mass" for "complete"... anyway I may release the final version as a "different" mod in the future (like some others release different versions, unnecessary violence v 1,2 and 3 and OCO v1 and 2 etc...) dunno yet.

Changes:

• Mithril armor new style; change the texture to pale blue silver, more like the Lord of the Rings mithril. Also made a whole new version as the one I was using was based on Yuravica's design. This one's mine.
• Daedric armor covered version. I'm keeping the skimpy one for alters, but this one is more covered, based on the vanilla thing and some concept art. Heavily improved animations via bone weight - means skirt and loincloth thingy actually make sense now. She doesn't look fat does she?
• Elven armor. I think it finally looks like a freaking elven armor instead of a can of tuna. Always wanted that kind of look on the impression of an agile warrior using swords and bows, running through the trees and camouflaging with the leaves etc...
• I finally made the Knights of the Nine armor... nothing new here, just improved the vanilla design
• Glass armor. (Again) Lowered the entire belt-skirt thing to make it look slimmer. Added more pieces to skirt and added thigh pads. An attempt to mix a bit of the Skyrim version into it.

So What Do You Think????

Please DO tell me

PS: Changes are not yet for DL... someone else needs to run a certain neckseam mender program for them in order for the thing to be perfect. If you like the changes and this guy helps with the final touch, i'll upload soon. as the whole thing is the FINAL of FINALS regarding female armor with my mod.
Still need the male part and clothing, but armor is FINISHED

 

Also another opinion requested.

Should I do gladiator armors too?

Arena stuff is ready but it comes in skimpy flavor. What I'm giving here is logical protecting flavor first

• Pros: There are some ideas on the internet to make female gladiator outfits. It would complete the collections and make something actually protecting.
• Cons: I don't want too. Feels like extra work. Plus, not that necessary; gladiators are supposed to be sexy fighter slaves dressed for a show. But then again, it doesn't seem protective at all. (refer to first page for screenies)

EDIT:

UPLOADED FILE

New female armor pack in reasonable flavor, no skimpy (yet) neckseams updated by Junkacc

Feel free to beta test them. Hopefully, all invisible stuff in first person went away, skin tone is matched and neckseams will be minimized if using whatever it is Junkacc is recommending for head these days

 

 

[varenne]

Since you asked for opinions here's mine:

• I like this over the prior Mithril color, as long as in-game it is not so bright that it glows. 
• This is fine too.
• Only thing I never cared for for female Elven is the greaves and boots. Just not very feminine, IMO. Personally I think there should be both heavy and light Elven versions of armor, just not as heavy looking as some of the other sets, since it is armor for Elves who are supposed to be agile.
• That works.
• I have my own mashup, but another nice glass set I can add to the game.  
• Gladiator armors - Up to you really. If I'm not motivated to do something odds are I never do it.

All of these are very good and all in all make up another nice addition we can choose to add to our game.

[RitualClarity]

My opinion is do what you feel is correct I am sure it will be great. Might not appeal to everybody but that doesn't matter, you are putting in the work and it is your mod so it is your call. .

I can tell you elalquimista that I will try all I can to use your finished product and give it a good review once it is done when and if I ever mod my Oblivion game again.. (shivers from the horrors of trying to mod Oblivion before)

 

Seriously what I seen so far is a very highly detailed armor set, an improvement over the base game. That is all that can be asked. If someone don't like it they can do like varenne above has done or others as well. Learn how to create a "mashup", use the body tools to reshape the body if the body isn't all that you desire (someone mentioned H cup) etc. Finally if gladiators are desired and not made.. invest the time to do it yourself. There is loads and loads of help and lots of free tools for someone wanting to start doing various things in modding take advantage of the opportunities and stop complaining or being concerned a mod author might or might not do something you like.

[Myst42]

Sorry for the mistake, i missed some textures but they were uploaded a moment ago

 

@Varenne: Seems nobody likes elven boots lol

The previous upload with the hoodies had a "heavy" version of elven armor... instead of clothing underneath it had armored mail... perhaps i could make that as an alter too

 

@Ritual: you make sense as usual. In any case I'm requesting opinions looking for constructive criticism... of course I'll make what I want in the end, but it doesn't hurt to hear other perspectives... I might follow them or not...

 

I'm still not sure if I'm happy with the skimpy arena setting. Though some opinions could help make up my mind on it...

[RitualClarity]

 

@Varenne: Seems nobody likes elven boots lol

I like them... when I am an elf..

 

@Ritual: you make sense as usual. In any case I'm requesting opinions looking for constructive criticism... of course I'll make what I want in the end, but it doesn't hurt to hear other perspectives... I might follow them or not...

Of course... who knows someone might come up with the next awesome idea that might inspire you in the  process.

 

I'm still not sure if I'm happy with the skimpy arena setting. Though some opinions could help make up my mind on it...

I haven't tried that skimpy arena when I played Oblivion however if you are talking about they are skimpy and you would prefer to have more realistic armor.. I agree. They can still be sexy though

[Myst42]

 

@Varenne: Seems nobody likes elven boots lol

I like them... when I am an elf..

 

B-But-But- But you're an alien!

 

These are the current versions for arena armors... I say they're "skimpy" but they're mostly just bikini "armor"

 

 

 

IF... I were to try to design something more covered I dunno...

Spartacus is probably the show to look at when looking for stylish gladiator armor... I know I turned there for male armor... but gladiator girls in that show weren't too much covered anyways...

 

 

If anything there is in common between other viable options is the presence of a skirt and some kind of corset

 

 

 

Ont the other hand... the more I dig, the more I find out that gladiator combat (real) was actually done in most unprotective armor purely for entertaining purposes

 

 

[RitualClarity]

http://www.tribunesandtriumphs.org/gladiators/roman-gladiator-armor.htm

http://listverse.com/2013/04/02/10-famous-gladiators-from-ancient-rome/

 

From my understanding they were quite "bare". Mostly only shield, weapon and perhaps some shin or arm protection and very basic midsection clothing. Keep in mind that wrestling contest were stated as being done in the nude. Roman and Greek didn't have the same "taboo" against nudity.

 

 

The above might even be stated as being more clothed that needed or desired. This is a "show" .. now the top link also stated that they loved armors and other things to represent various cultures so it is entirely possible that some woman might evne be shown in a full flowing dress (like a goddess ) or next to nothing at all.

 

 

http://www.tribunesandtriumphs.org/gladiators/female-gladiators.htm

 Note from page:

 

• They do not wear helmets

• They do not wear a tunic, just a loincloth (subligaculum)

• They wear an arm protector (called a manica)

• They both hold a gladius (sword)

• They both wear an Ocrea, or metal greave, on the lower leg

• They hold a body shield called a scutum

Talk about a "show"..

[Myst42]

Past the gladiator impasse I left sexy bikini type stuff as normal and bare nudity reserved for alter versions.

Speaking of which

 

I've been updating alters and the spiral of skimpiness seems to have no end.

At first I started doing a bit more uncovered versions. But progressing I ended up making new alters, some of them are... less than presentable in more "respectable" circles xD

Gosh I feel like such a perv now...

Then I remembered why I was being drawn to bare naked warrior designs...

Luis Royo and his wonderful art works dwell deep within my darkest dream fantasies

 

Which brings us here:

 

 

 

 

Especially the Dark Brotherhood armor

Ended up with 1main (and decent) version, 8 sexy alters, 9 bare ones and guess what... 5 Bondage variations xD. Yep. That's right. Bondage. Blame those who made DMRA. After all I search through all options for interesting replacing material.

 

 

Thoughts?

[junkacc]

I've got an idea. Use your alter meshes for better cities. Instead of having a bunch of alter stuff no one will look at, believe me that's how lazy ppl are, it'll get much more exposure in better cities and other mods.

[Myst42]

...Probably not

 

I intend to do better cities with regular reasonable material, the whole game is a single unity, mixing is not the idea... but ppl are free to do so if they want.

As for laziness... I'll take screenies of each variant and include them in the DL once it's done

[RitualClarity]

HUmm.. going for the more youthful look now with your profile..

[varenne]

I too have been a fan of Luis Royo, having discovered it via Science Fiction & Fantasy books.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

I like them all.

 

Curious, what lower body mesh/texture is that that provides such detail of private parts?

[Myst42]

I like them all.

 

Curious, what lower body mesh/texture is that that provides such detail of private parts?

 

Just regular HGEC from SetBody Reloaded - Blockhead Edition

Texture that's another subject...

It's my own concoction from stuff

One day I'll release it along my race project

Which is currently on hold because I'm doing this, but it only needs an argonian head texture and finishing touches to male textures...

[chapel]

Use your alter meshes for better cities.

elalquimista, please don't do this. I love your alternate meshes, for both armor and clothes. It gives my male/female PCs some variety.

 

 

 

Also, I do not use Better Cities. Not lazy, I check the contents of all mods I use. Can't speak for everyone though.

[Myst42]

Better cities adds some new clothing to the game, it uses vanilla meshes with retextures I think

The idea is to replace them with my meshes too. I use it

But as I use the Reasonable Flavor (covered) sets I'll be doing the same for BC

And don't worry, It's not about making it dependent, when it's done, It'll be a separate plugin you'll only want to download if you actually have BC

[Myst42]

UPDATE:

• Unreasonable armor pack
• Catalogue to help decide between them
• Esp file uploaded separately in case I decide to update it
• Included a readme specially for the unreasonable armor pack

All currently at Nexus page (sorry, I feel a bit lazy to upload here too tight now)

 

Example of the catalog shots (even those I can't show in Nexus image share)

 

 

 

 

Now you can see what I was talking about when I mention the dark brotherhood armor...

23 freaking variants...

5 of them came straight out of some BDSM club... don't ask...

9 normals and 9 bare ones mildly inspired in fantasy art

3 Daedric variants I can't even show

The infamous chainmail bikini (literally)

Etc...

[7th Sinner]

Thank you for your hard work! DL'd your mod, saw that the biggest size for everything was D-cup (most of my chars use ZKEC Kaihen E or standard HGEC E), decided to look through all of the folders and replace only those outfits and armors which I like more than the usual HGEC conversion. Well, I ended up replacing almost everything   
I like how you added some personal style to conversions - and I like that style! Seriously, you added many details in meshes that make clothing and armor look fantastic! And there's a ton of alternative versions exist! Amazing! I don't really regret losing a bit in cup size, because I get much better outfits instead. Thank you again! And sorry if I'm difficult to understand - my English is bad   

P.S. Still, I don't give up hope that maybe one day you'll do something for ZKEC, too. A full replacer is too much, I suppose, but one or two outfits would be awesome. 

 

[Myst42]

With, Gerra6's conversion tool, changing size got a lot easier... and it's actually on my plans too to make ZKEC conversions, once the rest of it it is done of course... given what I've learnt these past years, making a conversion is child's play (Too cocky?-- yeah but still... XD) 

[varenne]

I've actually started running some of your outfits through gerra6's tools, made an ESP and set of chests for them and started adding them to The Testing Hall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The above image shows my PC wearing a conversion to all HGEC EBE for the A9 Dark Brotherhood outfit. I'm also doing all HGEC E-cup, L lowers for her too. (So far only the lower left leg belts and a small section of the right boot at the top has some clipping. But that has been an issue with other meshes I've attempted to convert too. If gerra6 comes back I plan on submitting it for review with them as it may be pushing the current limits of the tool, or my lattice settings may need to be tweaked a bit more.)

Clipping

 

 

 

 

 

By having these in Testinghall I can quickly check resulting conversions, including adding BBB to them. I actually now prefer some of them without the BBBfied OP3s, just OP1 and OP2.

 

Some converted easily and nicely, others not so much. Larger breast sizes were a problem like HGEC HB, but that may be resolvable by using your original D-cup, generating the next cup size up and then using that to make the next size lattice. Jumping from F-cup to HB may not work though and I have yet to try it. Lately I've been going in the opposite direction and converting to smaller cup sizes; AA, A, B, & C but larger bottoms; EBE, L, LL & Manga. 

 

For anyone attempting this, it is extremely time consuming and I suggest targeting just one or two at a time for conversion.

 

Cheers,

 

V

 

 

[Myst42]

Great!!

Isn't it amazing when someone offers to do one's work for you? 

 

Kidding aside, it's really amazing.

 

For the record I care mostly about HGEC in AA, A, C, D and E and ZKEC in C, D (that's my invention) and E.

Lowers only S  and M for HGEC and normal for ZKEC.

If you're doing a part of this, it's a great relief. Having all of them finished, I can die in peace.

 

I was gonna try that too... generating lelvels of cup sizes to get better conversions, you took a head start.

[varenne]

One quick note, any existing clipping seems to get amplified even more as you go up in cup or lowerbody size. Downsizing does too but not as much, sometimes not at all. And I know you've wrestled with the clipping on some of these, so only mentioning it now so when you proceed with any conversions of your own you'll know what to expect.

 

Again, some of the resulting clipping may be due to the lattice creation process. The animations used to test also. Women's Moves does not stress out the meshes as does Pretty Woman or Lovers H animations. BBB weights also has an affect too, which is kind of high for movomo's SetBody Reloaded Blockhead resources. For those wanting a more subtle 'bounce' it may be better to copy BBB weights from an older Setbody set. Otherwise you'll need to use Blender, but gerra6 has add-ons for that too.

 

Always remember the true formula for in-game results is: Mesh+Animation+Skeleton. Anyone of those 'off' or extreme will have god awful results.

[Myst42]

Varenne a question:

 

Some models have push-up cups so they're not exactly the same as the original cup size, IE, fur cuirass is one of them

So, how did the conversion tool behaved? Did it get the right shape or is it messed up?

[varenne]

I don't think I have targeted any of those yet.

 

In most cases though where a cup or breast has been altered from the 'original' non-altered shape, one must use the Enable button for Two Step Lattice for the Make Lattice.bat tool, when making your lattice for that mesh and armor piece.

 

I'll try one and report back.

 

Which one are you curious about, fur a1 or the core one?

 

I generated an E-cup off of your D-cup fur a1 and in both NifSkope and in-game it looks okay to me. It doesn't look too extreme on the push-up, if that is the one you wanted tested. (I left the original OP3s in place and unaltered and did not re-rig them using Mesh Rigger.)

 

Here's the lattice I generated and used and the E-cup output:

a1.7z

 

Note: That's a full body based lattice, but the lower is still just M. 

Edited May 2, 2015 by varenne

[Myst42]

Actually both, but I was more concerned about the core one.

If I remember correctly, Arena Heavy Blue, Elven and Madness are also designed on push-up cup

[varenne]

I'll give them a try in the morning and let you know. 

 

You may be alright due to the cup size not being too extreme nor the push-up. The ones I've seen or experienced as being problematic are the larger cup sizes and the more extreme alteration of the breast area; not just push-up put pushed together. It just (IMO) exceeds the current tools capability to adjust.

 

I just tried converting the F fur core to E-cup, and the 1st run with the lattice I made for fur a1 came out with the least amount of clipping. I tried numerous adjustments when making that lattice and it only got worse.

 

 

 

 

 

I also tried copying your upper body and pasting that into a full body, replacing the upper I had there for HGEC D-cup, and used that to make a new lattice. Results were even worse.

 

I am certainly no expert when it comes to using these tools, so there may be others in those threads on the Modders Resources forum that can do better. There are options I'm not even using yet, since I have no idea what they do.

Edited May 3, 2015 by varenne