SexLab Hormones (January 2022)

[DeepBlueFrog]

Q: any Eta for sex change curse quest? (part II)

 

 

Actually, I don't know everything about this

 

tf = transformation?

 

I see this as an interesting modding exercise and since it seems to be answering a need rarely touched so far, it makes it even more intriguing.

 

There was a similar idea of multi-tier body change I have been thinking about for a while. I would like to allow for a better range of body shapes, from skinny to fit and all the way to obese. That would have to involve multiple races because of the way Skyrim handles body changes.

 

I am thinking about a similar idea for a sex change curse (and if I can pull it off for sex change, I will have the base for that other mod I just described).

 

I haven't tried anything yet, but I am planning on trying this with one or two intermediate races.

 

You would start with a race of origin, male or female, with weight dropping to 0.

Then you would switch to a male-to-androgynous or female-to-androgynous race, custom made with weight slider to go to one end of the spectrum to the other.

Once you reach the half point (both make and female features) you would switch to the opposite custom race with inverse weight slider progression, until it is time to start a weight 0 on your target race.

 

I can imagine this would require some configuration to accommodate various fantasies (such as stopping half way, or selecting the race of your choice for both sexes).

 

It would probably require a lot of testing to make sure stats are not lost in translation between race.

 

Finally, I could not do this without a good story for a curse. I am definitely going to need some help or inspiration with that one.

Just finding a device or a stone somewhere will not do. I need a good, doable, story line that will get the player into trouble and trigger a sex change that they may want to revert or not.

[Azrail]

 

Hm, my magicka doesn't seem to want to restore at all. Even using gear that hasten magicka regen.

The mod only changes the current value of the magicka pool. The base value and regen rates are left untouched, so I would look elsewhere if you have problems regenerating.

 

I will try to remember to add an option to disable changes to magicka, health and stamina in future versions.

 

I think the biggest issue with the way this mod alters our stats is the fact it does so directly. Would it be possible to change it so it uses magic effects (buffs, debuffs) to affect our stats by simply stating if it adds +30 or -30 to HP? That way it wont conflict with any mods that measure those scores like "Achieve That!" and such.

 

Would also make it easier to uninstall and update as those magic effects would simply be removed and/or reapplied while leaving the initial stats total intact.

[Azrail]

 

 

 

Finally, I could not do this without a good story for a curse. I am definitely going to need some help or inspiration with that one.

Just finding a device or a stone somewhere will not do. I need a good, doable, story line that will get the player into trouble and trigger a sex change that they may want to revert or not.

 

 

Is it possible to detect if the PC is male or female? If so you could have the curse applied as a form of punishment by a follower of dibella if your male and a cultist of sanguine if your female. That way it would fit to skyrim's lore as well as allowing you a way to reapply the curse if its removed.

[DeepBlueFrog]

 

 

 

 

Finally, I could not do this without a good story for a curse. I am definitely going to need some help or inspiration with that one.

Just finding a device or a stone somewhere will not do. I need a good, doable, story line that will get the player into trouble and trigger a sex change that they may want to revert or not.

 

 

Is it possible to detect if the PC is male or female? If so you could have the curse applied as a form of punishment by a follower of dibella if your male and a cultist of sanguine if your female. That way it would fit to skyrim's lore as well as allowing you a way to reapply the curse if its removed.

 

 

Detecting the sex of the player is mandatory.

 

Finding a story that mixes both Sanguine and Dibella is trickier. Maybe a separate quest for males and females would make more sense.

[DeepBlueFrog]

 

 

Hm, my magicka doesn't seem to want to restore at all. Even using gear that hasten magicka regen.

The mod only changes the current value of the magicka pool. The base value and regen rates are left untouched, so I would look elsewhere if you have problems regenerating.

 

I will try to remember to add an option to disable changes to magicka, health and stamina in future versions.

 

I think the biggest issue with the way this mod alters our stats is the fact it does so directly. Would it be possible to change it so it uses magic effects (buffs, debuffs) to affect our stats by simply stating if it adds +30 or -30 to HP? That way it wont conflict with any mods that measure those scores like "Achieve That!" and such.

 

Would also make it easier to uninstall and update as those magic effects would simply be removed and/or reapplied while leaving the initial stats total intact.

 

 

That's a good point.

 

I thought I already took care of that by using modifications to the current value, not the base value, but I guess I should look into a better way of doing this.

 

Not sure about adding yet another round of spell / magic effects though... I have to think about how to do that correctly.

[Azrail]

 

 

 

 

Detecting the sex of the player is mandatory.

 

Finding a story that mixes both Sanguine and Dibella is trickier. Maybe a separate quest for males and females would make more sense.

 

 

You could have a cave/house/temple where the two factions are competing over something and as the PC interrupts them they decide to punish them for the intrusion with said curse maybe.

 

I bought dibella up as it might give you a way to tie in your "sisterhood of dibella" mod as worshippers of dibella believe women to be the most beautiful they would reward the male PC by turning them into a women. Maybe have it so when you talk to a traveling sister and ask her to teach you about beauty she might have a chance to cast the curse on you. 

 

I'm merely just throwing out ideas at this point in hopes that it may help somewhere along the line.

[Guest kimbale]

I've thought about some immersive ways to get all this body changing stuff in a quest:

One could have Sanguine and Clavicus Vile clash. Sanguine would try to find a champion who would live on worldy indulgences (ie. succubus/incubus) and Clavicus Vile would want to grant power (to change sex) by repeating a ritual over and over again (ie fucking a lot).

I imagine the quest starting when the PC had a night of too much sex (ie passing out after having 50 sex scenes in a day or so) and would awake to Sanguine and Clavicus Vile arguing about who would get the PC as champion.

The quest would proceed with having a lot of sex and seducing some high-ranked characters in skyrim with the new powers, offering the sex to either prince. Or going total celibate and seeking help with the divines.

 

I really want some succubus mod.

[dizzyman]

Just been thinking about this quest stuff and have some ideas:

 

I ended up thinking along the lines of voluntarily (semi-tricked?) allowing yourself to become a host for some sort of soul/spirit (maybe from the realm of Sanguine or something - at the end of his quest perhaps).  Not to replace your soul, just coexist. If playing as a male PC, the spirit could appear as a female and vice versa. Certain creative dialogue choices when first encountering them could establish certain player preferances (retain penis, don't actually change gender perhaps, or whatever).  It tells you that when you have sex, it grows more powerful, and so will you... (lack of sex = weaker, and looks it).

 

As Succubus/Incubus lore does not exist in The Elder Scrolls, I was thinking that this could be how one is created.  Then as a Succbus/Incubus, I guess it would play rather like vampirism without the sunlight issues, with sex instead of blood - and possible major physical changes.  The sky's the limit there: could have various powers, weaknesses, alternate 'demon' form, even flight/floating (maybe a seperate mod for some/much of that).  I imagine that using various races for gender changing would make vampirism difficult or impossible too.

 

I got part way through cooking up an elaborate mechanics system (partly limited by technical knowledge); I'm fairly convinced it could be done in a way to cater to... most people's tastes at least.  There's obviously many different things that could be done to make it a lot more interesting than just sex = feeding; both from a mechanics (possible advantages and disadvantages of various things), and a roleplay point (maybe succumb/resist stuff etc.).

[Shadowscale]

Decided to turn color changes on and it seems after reloading the file my character returned back to their original color before I played that day along with bust size outsize of what was increased due to weight changes.

[DeepBlueFrog]

Decided to turn color changes on and it seems after reloading the file my character returned back to their original color before I played that day along with bust size outsize of what was increased due to weight changes.

 

It is possible color changes do not persist in a save. I will have to double check that.

[DeepBlueFrog]

@dizzyman , @kimbale, @azrail - Thanks for the ideas.

 

I am away for now and I had time to think about the concept more. It is taking shape nicely

[Shadowscale]

 

Decided to turn color changes on and it seems after reloading the file my character returned back to their original color before I played that day along with bust size outsize of what was increased due to weight changes.

 

It is possible color changes do not persist in a save. I will have to double check that.

 

 

Hm, wonder if the issue I and a couple others with breasts going back to default size for their weight after saving then reloading is due to Race Menu mod since I noticed it doesn't move the sliders. Might explain the color changing not sticking too.

 

edit: Seems the cause was race menu mod.

[Recoilsuave]

I don't know if you have it described anywhere, but could you explain what each of the mcm menu options actually does? It's not very straightforward and the tooltips in the menu don't really say much either. Like, just what is the base value and how do the other options affect it. Also, what does the libido number mean? Is that supposed to automatically set your character's arousal to that number or something? There are a lot of options and the descriptions don't really tell what any of them do. Like I changed the belly and butt options to 0 or something like that and the next time the clock struck midnight my character's belly folded in on itself and her butt crack became a zigzagged mess with butt cheeks clipped into each other.

 

Another issue is that her weight increased yet her butt shrank when I have my bodies set up for everything to get bigger as the weight goes up. Racemenu shows weight going up, breasts increasing slightly but the second breast option is actually going down.

 

As an aside, does anyone have or know how to make a body mesh that doesn't have the ribcage weighted with the breasts? I ask because when the breasts get really large the ribs expand with them and it's like half the character's body is blowing up in the sides, and one of the breasts has a part that doesn't grow at all.

[DeepBlueFrog]

 

 

Decided to turn color changes on and it seems after reloading the file my character returned back to their original color before I played that day along with bust size outsize of what was increased due to weight changes.

 

It is possible color changes do not persist in a save. I will have to double check that.

 

 

Hm, wonder if the issue I and a couple others with breasts going back to default size for their weight after saving then reloading is due to Race Menu mod since I noticed it doesn't move the sliders. Might explain the color changing not sticking too.

 

edit: Seems the cause was race menu mod.

 

 

That will be easy to test - I am also using RaceMenu.

Thanks for reporting the issue.

[krezztow]

I have a question about the stat buffs debuffs.

 

One of my chars has tons of items that grant health (I use unlimited rings and amulets)

After some weeks without much 'action' for her, I noticed that max health had dropped from 400 to 21. It seems your mod reduced the character base health below zero, only the immense amount of health buffs she got from items kept her alive.

Unequipping them resultet in immediate death (even with tgm/tim enabled). Since you said there are blocks to prevent this, and succubus mode was disabled, I assume this is a mod conflict/screw up on my part. I've uninstalled the mod for now. 

Would it be possible get a mcm menu where we have oversight over the stat changes, like how much is added/retracted and why, and the ability to reset them.

 

Just wanted to add that I enjoyed this mod, it has good potential.

[DeepBlueFrog]

I don't know if you have it described anywhere, but could you explain what each of the mcm menu options actually does? It's not very straightforward and the tooltips in the menu don't really say much either. Like, just what is the base value and how do the other options affect it. Also, what does the libido number mean? Is that supposed to automatically set your character's arousal to that number or something? There are a lot of options and the descriptions don't really tell what any of them do. Like I changed the belly and butt options to 0 or something like that and the next time the clock struck midnight my character's belly folded in on itself and her butt crack became a zigzagged mess with butt cheeks clipped into each other.

 

Another issue is that her weight increased yet her butt shrank when I have my bodies set up for everything to get bigger as the weight goes up. Racemenu shows weight going up, breasts increasing slightly but the second breast option is actually going down.

 

As an aside, does anyone have or know how to make a body mesh that doesn't have the ribcage weighted with the breasts? I ask because when the breasts get really large the ribs expand with them and it's like half the character's body is blowing up in the sides, and one of the breasts has a part that doesn't grow at all.

 

I will try to write up a detailed description once the system is stable... right now, there are many things I am still tweaking.

 

In short, the base value is a rate of change applied uniformly - one for growth and one for reduction. It is a value that is reduced from or added to the weight or the body morphs.

 

Breast, butt, belly rates are multipliers (in percentage) applied to the base value above. This is to allow fine tuning of each node since they don't have the same sensitivity to change (that depends on your model).

 

If your butt folds on itself or breasts explode and wrap around the chest, that means your multipliers are too large for your model.

 

I will have to add a 'refresh' option to the menu to do a soft reset after you change values (so you don't have to wait for another day).

 

About the ribcage, that would require fine editing of the weights of the body mesh you are using. It is doable but tricky to learn and practice. You can do it if you take the time to learn Blender, import/export functions, nifskope and painting weights.

[DeepBlueFrog]

I have a question about the stat buffs debuffs.

 

One of my chars has tons of items that grant health (I use unlimited rings and amulets)

After some weeks without much 'action' for her, I noticed that max health had dropped from 400 to 21. It seems your mod reduced the character base health below zero, only the immense amount of health buffs she got from items kept her alive.

Unequipping them resultet in immediate death (even with tgm/tim enabled). Since you said there are blocks to prevent this, and succubus mode was disabled, I assume this is a mod conflict/screw up on my part. I've uninstalled the mod for now. 

Would it be possible get a mcm menu where we have oversight over the stat changes, like how much is added/retracted and why, and the ability to reset them.

 

Just wanted to add that I enjoyed this mod, it has good potential.

 

Thanks for reporting. 

If you are using the MCM version, there should be a safeguard if the Succubus option is turned off. I will check if it is really working as it should.

 

On the other hand, your magicka should be much higher than usual

 

I will make a note to at least display a list of current stats and changes. I also have to think about a better way to apply the buffs and still play nice with other mods.

[DeepBlueFrog]

Another comment about Libido.

 

Right now, that value doesn't do much. 

 

It goes from -100 to 100 and is used by some of the growth values to measure how far along you are in your sex levels.

 

Eventually, it will become a better measure of sex drive (as opposed to arousal).

 

My plan is to make Libido a sort of magicka pool. You will be able to 'redeem' Libido points against perks.

Positive Libido points will give you access to one branch of perks / negative points will be on another branch.

 

The list of perks is not finalized yet.

 

Of course, redeeming libido points will deplete your pool, which will require more celibacy or more sex acts to replenish depending on which path you are following.

 

In succubus mode, you will have access to unique perks more in line with a succubus.

[Shadowscale]

 

 

 

Decided to turn color changes on and it seems after reloading the file my character returned back to their original color before I played that day along with bust size outsize of what was increased due to weight changes.

 

It is possible color changes do not persist in a save. I will have to double check that.

 

 

Hm, wonder if the issue I and a couple others with breasts going back to default size for their weight after saving then reloading is due to Race Menu mod since I noticed it doesn't move the sliders. Might explain the color changing not sticking too.

 

edit: Seems the cause was race menu mod.

 

 

That will be easy to test - I am also using RaceMenu.

Thanks for reporting the issue.

 

 

Do you have Racemenu first or second? I was having issues when Racemenu was put first (as was suggested by BOSS).

 

Edit: First or second in comparision to your mod. Unrecognized mods are put near the bottom by BOSS.

[easykill]

Hi there! great work. I think this mod has a lot of potential. I hope you continue to look at the transgender stuff, but I hope you will view it as more of a continuum blurring the lines rather than a transition between two distinct states.

 

I have a lot of thinking and learning about the mechanics to do, but I may try to do some work myself to make bodies more morphable ingame. It is actually pretty lore friendly, as there is an in game theory that the different races were originally one race, separated by environment and magical experiments. Powerful magic could mutate your character in a similar fashion. Other than a "magical disease" like succubism, wanton alchemy use and special quest events and things could have a visible effect on your character.

[pyjinbom]

Having it set up as a progressive transformation that can go both ways would be amazing. The next question would be what triggers it? Sex / lack of sex like the current bodyshape changes? Maybe you could make it so that sex with a man (whether your character is male or female) makes them more feminine and sex with a woman makes your character more masculine unless said woman is using a dildo?   It could be interesting when used in conjunction with Sanguine's Debauchery (2!).

[DeepBlueFrog]

Being away for a week gave me time to think about the mechanics of the curse. I will keep details under wrap for now for the surprise but it will weave together both the succubus mode and sex change curse. Changes will be progressive hopefully.

 

The current difficulty I have has to do with races. Keeping the target race with sex change close to the original race will be a challenge. 

I can match color skin at least... I am not sure the result will be always good looking. I will have to see about that in testing.

[DeepBlueFrog]

Bad news for a sex change transformation.

 

It would appear there is no Papyrus equivalent of the 'SexChange' console command.

 

There is a GetSex( ) function in ActorBase but there is no SexSex( ) - at least not according to the wiki.

 

Unless there is a non documented function somewhere, I can't see how I will be able to add a sex change that will also change your apparel. We could simulate that with body morphs and gender flags in SexLab, but you would not be able to equip armors of the opposite sex.

 

I will work on the Succubus mode and bug fixes for now.

 

If anyone has suggestions about changing sex by script, I am all ears.

[LoneWanderer88]

Just a quick question all!

Does this mod support CBBE bodies? I wasn't noticing a difference to the body form itself, even though I could see the changes if I put on certain armors. What body types does this support, if it doesn't support CBBE? If it does support CBBE, what am I missing?

Also, sorry to hear about the Sex Change revelations, I love TG transformations.

[dizzyman]

Bad news for a sex change transformation.

 

It would appear there is no Papyrus equivalent of the 'SexChange' console command.

 

There is a GetSex( ) function in ActorBase but there is no SexSex( ) - at least not according to the wiki.

 

Unless there is a non documented function somewhere, I can't see how I will be able to add a sex change that will also change your apparel. We could simulate that with body morphs and gender flags in SexLab, but you would not be able to equip armors of the opposite sex.

 

I will work on the Succubus mode and bug fixes for now.

 

If anyone has suggestions about changing sex by script, I am all ears.

 

No great surprise on the lack SetSex I spose.  Would it be worth asking the SKSE team to add something?

 

Thinking about it, apparel rather dictates how the body changes would go (i.e. rather less than gradual); unless someone made a custom apparel to go with the curse.

 

As for equipping apparel of opposite gender: maybe duplicate apparel with gender flag switched and equip that instead?