{UPDATE - 2014 July 06} Teen Monli Race

[PsychoMachina]

Try this,

- make a new save then exit the game.

- deactive all of your mods except the Monli and Monli-related mods, ECE-CME, hair packs, SkyUI, and any patches.

- start your game and load the new save.  Make another new save, exit game, restart game, and load the latest new game.

- see if that fixed your problem.

- if it does, start activating your mods one-by-one, but leave any script-heavy mods and animation mods for last.

- as you activate a mod and start the game, see if it triggers the problem.  If not, activate the next mod and repeat.

 

[PsychoMachina]

But you don't think that would affect 1st person?

 

Skeleton.nif (found in the _1stperson folder) changes the 1st-person camera.

 

Female_skeleton.nif (found in the Monli folder) changes the 3rd-person camera.

 

My issue is with the female_skeleton.nif.

[Seiji-Chan]

Eh... I'm so lost. So many mods want to overwrite each other's nif files and dds files, it's maddening to figure out which I need to keep and which I don't. Even between the Monli files, everything seems to want to override each other. I just tried tweaking stuff and ended up missing a dds, so when I took a Monli's clothes off, the game crashed. Somehow fixed that and it sounds like a nightmare to uninstall almost all the mods. I wish there was a concrete reason why 1st person bow aim would fire downwards...

[PsychoMachina]

Animation mods can change the vanilla animations.  Script-type mods uses scripts to make changes or additions to gameplay.  Not all mods are compatible and a mod you would think would have no negative effect to another mod just may be the cause.

 

Are you using NMM?  May I suggest Mod Organizer.  http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/1334

Here's a beginner's guide.  http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/31499

 

Mod Organizer installs each mod in their own folder separate from the Skyrim folder.  When starting the game with Mod Organizer, the files are added virtually.  It works similar to NMM, but the files are not installed in the Data folder and no files, in the literal sense, gets overwritten by another file.  If a file needs to be updated or overwritten, it is done virtually.  This makes working with each mod easier and it keeps the Data folder uncluttered.

 

[Athenaa]

Just wanted to post thank you!

 

 

 

 

[Seiji-Chan]

Oh gosh, I fixed it. After uninstalling every script/animation mod I have, even going as far to uninstall the BBP type "jiggle" mods, it came to me. I was trying to use that 1st person mod that made it so the camera attaches to your eyes and you can look down and see your body. The mod had ini settings you needed to add and chance to make arrows fire correctly, and that's the value I didn't remove when I uninstalled the mod (I wish I could have used it, but it just wouldn't work right for me).

 

Sorry about all of that, my stupidity was the culprit after all.

 

Totally unrelated question, though: Do Monlis work with pregnancy mods? Probably sounds a bit creepy, but I was thinking of making a taller Monli who looked a bit older (the current one I'm using I'm roleplaying more as a halfling child) and I might try the SexLab Procreation mod on her. I'm not sure how it would work, since changing the weight slider on Monlis only slightly changes their girth with clothes on and makes NO change with clothes off. I think the Procreation mod has a skeleton node pregnancy mode too, so you don't have to use min/max weight settings via CBBE Bodyslide. Would that affect the body of a Monli (clothes on, off, both, etc)?

 

If you have no experience with that mod, no worries. Just wondering.

 

 

EDIT: Here's a couple pics of Tyr. I meant to thank you for the mod, but my frustration got the better of me.

 

 

 

[PsychoMachina]

Good to hear you solved your problem.  If you want an adult Monli then check Monli v4.  Same race around teen height using adult bodies.  http://www.loverslab.com/topic/14711-update-x117-bodyskeleton-options-monli-race-v4/

 

Your little Monli is adorable. 

[PsychoMachina]

Just wanted to post thank you!

 

2013-06-18_00005.jpg

2013-06-18_00011.jpg

2013-06-18_00019.jpg

 

She adorable too!

 

I really need to get back to finishing the update for the loli Monli and get started on the Girls of Tera loli races.  This BodyChanger mod I'm preoccupied with now is distracting me, but it looks promising and I would like to implement it with the Monli and GT races.

[Seiji-Chan]

Ah cool, I'll check that out then. Will the files needed for that conflict with the Monli files for this one, or will it be a separate race?

 

And thanks. I took way too long tweaking the face, lol.

[PsychoMachina]

Ah cool, I'll check that out then. Will the files needed for that conflict with the Monli files for this one, or will it be a separate race?

 

And thanks. I took way too long tweaking the face, lol.

 

The only differences are the skeletons, body and textures.  Same race, race attributes/powers/abilities, and same folder structure.  All you need to do is replace the loli Monli skeleton/body meshes/textures with the files that comes with the main pack and body/texture packs.

 

ECE is still compatible and any presets you saved will also work on the adult Monli.  The Venus bodies are something I made for the race, but there are no armors converted for them.

[Seiji-Chan]

So if I swapped out the files, would my current Monli crash on loading? Something tells me I wouldn't be able to figure out getting them both to work at once, lol.

[PsychoMachina]

So if I swapped out the files, would my current Monli crash on loading? Something tells me I wouldn't be able to figure out getting them both to work at once, lol.

 

Keep the "loli" Monli installed. 

 

Install these "adult" skeletons.  Extract and add to Meshes > Actors > Character > Monli folder.  Allow overwriting of the x117 skeletons.

Adult Monli Skeletons.7z

 

You may need the 1st-person skeleton fix.

http://www.loverslab.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=27207

 

Head over to the Adult Monli thread and download the body/texture replacers.  Extract, choose a body and add the folder in your Data folder.  Do the same with the textures.

 

That is all.

 

Do not replace the Monli.esp or any of the ECE files.

 

Your game will not crash.  This is no different than using, say CBBE, and later changing to UNP.  As long as the files are there, the game will not crash.

[Seiji-Chan]

I hate to ask yet another question, but is there any way to get swords and daggers to not float off the hip? It's not the worst thing ever, but they're pretty far away.

[Dinosaurus]

@Hanezu

 

In order for Enhanced 3rd Person Camera to work, you must add the following to Skyrim.ini (Documents > My Games > Skyrim).

 

Enhanced 3rd Person Camera should not need any value added to any ini file. i do not have those lines in my skyrim.ini, and Enhanced 3rd Person Camera works for me. i actually don't have "[Camera]" section in my skyrim.ini at all.

 

But... i do use Mod Organizer, so... maybe that's what makes it work for me without any modifying being done to my skyrim.ini file.. i dunno... maybe if you aren't using any form of mod-manager then you'll need extra lines in your ini file? ...maybe..

 

i should add i am /not/ using any "first person" camera fix at all for the Monli race. However i did use a first person camera fix for CotS (the skeleton fix), and it never interfered with Enhanced 3rd Person Camera.

[PsychoMachina]

I hate to ask yet another question, but is there any way to get swords and daggers to not float off the hip? It's not the worst thing ever, but they're pretty far away.

 

Which Monli?  Adult?  Child?  Which skeleton are you using?

 

 

@Hanezu

 

In order for Enhanced 3rd Person Camera to work, you must add the following to Skyrim.ini (Documents > My Games > Skyrim).

 

Enhanced 3rd Person Camera should not need any value added to any ini file. i do not have those lines in my skyrim.ini, and Enhanced 3rd Person Camera works for me. i actually don't have "[Camera]" section in my skyrim.ini at all.

 

But... i do use Mod Organizer, so... maybe that's what makes it work for me without any modifying being done to my skyrim.ini file.. i dunno... maybe if you aren't using any form of mod-manager then you'll need extra lines in your ini file? ...maybe..

 

i should add i am /not/ using any "first person" camera fix at all for the Monli race. However i did use a first person camera fix for CotS (the skeleton fix), and it never interfered with Enhanced 3rd Person Camera.

 

 

Read Enhanced 3rd Person Camera's description page.  About halfway down, the author indicates adding the camera entries in Skyrim.ini before installing E3PC.

Even if E3PC works without editing Skyrim.ini, you would still need to include the entries for PosY and CombatPosY as the mod does not adjust those parameters.

[PsychoMachina]

UPDATE

 

I figured out a fix to the 1st-person camera problem and it involves moving the 1st-person skeleton from the Monli folder to the games vanilla _1stPerson folder. 

 

 

The problem now is that any playable adult races will have a very low 1st-person viewpoint.

 

I'll search for a better solution if there is one. 

 

You will need to download the latest skeleton that has been edited to re-adjust the camera view.  Extract and add to the Data folder.

 

If you later change your mind, go to Meshes > Actors > Character  and delete the "_1stPerson" folder.

 

 

[Seiji-Chan]

 

Which Monli?  Adult?  Child?  Which skeleton are you using?

 

I haven't tried the adult skeleton yet. I was talking about this one (child).

 

Ironically, weapons seems closer to the hip with clothes off, but with clothes on there's a noticeable gap between the weapon and the hip. Thankfully I'm using daggers, which don't have a really big gap, but one-handed swords and axes are really, really far off the hip. I tried using the weapon scale slider, but that doesn't seem to change the distance at all.

 

I can take a picture if you need.

 

Nice work on the camera fix too! Gonna try that now.

[en_hawk]

UPDATE

 

I figured out a fix to the 1st-person camera problem and it involves moving the 1st-person skeleton from the Monli folder to the games vanilla _1stPerson folder. 

 

x117-3rdPerson.jpg x117-1stPerson.jpg

 

The problem now is that any playable adult races will have a very low 1st-person viewpoint.

 

I'll search for a better solution if there is one. 

 

You will need to download the latest skeleton that has been edited to re-adjust the camera view.  Extract and add to the Data folder.

 

If you later change your mind, go to Meshes > Actors > Character  and delete the "_1stPerson" folder.

 

There already is a better solution:

Regarding the skeletons, they are set like that for a reason. A lot of research and discussion was carried out in here http://www.loverslab...-0902/?p=358185, and continues on between me and jerwa for about 10-15 pages. Despite what I said in that initial post, first person camera height does work correctly on its own without the use of other mods like PSA(this gets figured out in a later post). Anyway, the two different included skeletons were designed to be used in conjunction with their respective models.

 

With actor scale set properly, and the right skeletons, first person camera height scales properly based on actor scale with no user intervention.

[PsychoMachina]

@En_Hawk

 

I'm busy atm helping the author of BodyChanger.  I'm doing some tests with the latest update and I need to test the mod with werewolf and Vamp Lord transformations.  However, I also need to progress further into the game.  Right now I just joined the Companions.  I won't be able to test your skeletons for some time.  If you don't mind giving it a try and see if it fixes the 1st-person camera.

 

Somethings to point out.

- Actor scaling is 0.8 and the skeleton's scaling is 0.8.  That is why the Monli is smaller than the vanilla children.

- Her original 1st-person view was at the same height as the vanilla children.  When moving the skeleton to Character > _1stPerson folder, the camera lowered to match her height.

 

Here's a screen of the height differences (adult Lydia, vanilla child, and my Monli)

 

The vanilla girls line of sight is at chest level of an adult.

The Monli's line of sight is at the belt/waist level of an adult.

The original 1st-person view of the Monli was at the chest level.

Moving the file lowered that line of sight to waist level.

 

If your skeleton can bring the 1st-person camera down to waist level with the skeleton.nif in the Monli > _1stPerson folder, that would be great.

 

[en_hawk]

Scaling needs to be handled exclusively in the actor scale field; normalize the scaling in the skeleton so that it still produces the desired body proportions yet is vanilla height. The first person view height scales automatically with the actor scale, matching the actual height with the actor height solves the issue(and is the proper way scaling should be performed anyway).

[PsychoMachina]

Scaling needs to be handled exclusively in the actor scale field; normalize the scaling in the skeleton so that it still produces the desired body proportions yet is vanilla height. The first person view height scales automatically with the actor scale, matching the actual height with the actor height solves the issue(and is the proper way scaling should be performed anyway).

 

While I was running test to fix the 1st-person camera, I used actor-base scaling (0.78) with the female_skeleton.nif at a scale of 1.0.  That had no effect on the 1st-person camera, it was still at chest level of an adult.

 

Anyway, doesn't relying solely on actor scaling run the risk of a small race becoming adults when transforming from vampire or vampire lord or a mod that causes transformation for some purpose?  The Monli originally used actor-based scaling with the skeleton-scaling at 1.0.  Someone informed me that when transforming from vampire lord to Monli caused the Monli to be an adult.

 

I figured Monli's use the Nords as morph and proxy race, the game gave her a Nord body when transforming.  Something similar happened with the Elins who use the Khajjits as their proxy race.

[Dinosaurus]

Read Enhanced 3rd Person Camera's description page.  About halfway down, the author indicates adding the camera entries in Skyrim.ini before installing E3PC.

Even if E3PC works without editing Skyrim.ini, you would still need to include the entries for PosY and CombatPosY as the mod does not adjust those parameters.

oh wow! you're right. i could'ave swoooorn that wasn't there in the description when i first downloaded and installed the mod months back. hmm! i'm going to try adding those lines just to see if there is any difference in how the mod works... it /seems/ to work fine without the lines in my skyrim.ini, but i wonder if adding them will improve anything... hmmm!

[en_hawk]

While I was running test to fix the 1st-person camera, I used actor-base scaling (0.78) with the female_skeleton.nif at a scale of 1.0.  That had no effect on the 1st-person camera, it was still at chest level of an adult.

 

Anyway, doesn't relying solely on actor scaling run the risk of a small race becoming adults when transforming from vampire or vampire lord or a mod that causes transformation for some purpose?  The Monli originally used actor-based scaling with the skeleton-scaling at 1.0.  Someone informed me that when transforming from vampire lord to Monli caused the Monli to be an adult.

If the scaling isn't working properly you've got something else in there buggering it up: during testing on CotS with a clean skyrim install along with testing on some personal projects(on the same install) it works properly, however on my old messy install I noticed it behaved intermittently or didn't work at all with the same mods. I'm blaming it on dirty assets in the data folder causing problems, along with other mods messing with the skeleton and causing issues with the default behavior. Off the top of my head the only thing I can think of that interacts properly with actor scale based camera adjustment is PSA, though I'm sure there's others. Even in those cases with the vanilla behavior not operating correctly due to either other mods getting in the way or a polluted data folder, PSA seems able to successfully reimplement it and get it operating correctly. On this note, you generally don't want to replace the first person skeleton with anything that alters the overall height.

 

Regarding the transformations; just going to a regular vampire should not cause any issues if the races are setup properly, werewolf and vampire lord transformations operate differently and would not be affected by the races default skeleton regardless(there are other methods to handle these, PSA is one of these, though I haven't looked into the technical details in depth). If there is another mod that adds its own race based transformation then that is another matter entirely; scaling consistency needs to be handled internally by the mod implementing the transformation. Attempting to work around this with a scaled skeleton is a dodgy kludge at best.

 

Trying to handle actor scaling(overall height) via skeletons is a practice that should be avoided altogether. Bethesda implemented the actor scale value for this purpose, and trying to do it via skeleton opens up a whole can of worms and leaves you with numerous problems that I'm sure you are aware of(CotS has this same issue).

[PsychoMachina]

@En_Hawk

 

I followed your recommendations.

- Using a clean Data folder I installed the Monli race and a few mods that do not add to or change aspects of the character (except  some hair mods). 

- I removed the scale-down skeleton.nif, changed my skeleton's scale to 1.0, and kept actor-scale at 0.78.

- Started a new game.

 

You are right, the 1st-person camera matches her 3rd-person height.  Even when changing actor-scale to 0.7 the camera still matched her new scaling.  Thank you for your help.

 

Now I need to find out if any of the other mods I was using will affect the camera height and why now some of the body sliders won't appear, I'm using the same skeleton I had installed for my other Monli, I only changed the root scale. 

 

 

[Etna]

Do butt bounce work with this body? Im using The TBBP animation of Dragonfly with butt bounce from nexus, but butt is not bouncing